A dedicated birding/wildlife lens

[GorgeWalker]

So.

Contrary to what I originally thought - I've ended up focusing a lot of my time behind the camera staring at wildlife and some of the smallest birds I can find. My 300mm has got me a number of photos I am happy with, but it's pretty tough closing the distances with some species and hoping to invest in a longer lens to help.

It will be going on a Nikon d3500. All I have is the camera and two lenses. No tripods etc.

My current research has led me to read a bit about the Sigma 150-600mm C. Reviews are positive and the pricing on this is reasonable. I'm also considering buying it from somewhere where I can pay it off over a few months - the cash is there however would prefer to "spread the spend". Not something I've ever really done before really...

So - looking for thoughts and opinions? I know there is also the Tamron and there may be a Nikon option but I don't know too much about them?

Should I consider second hand?

Cheers,

Brendan

[ameerat42]

From memory 1 (or 2) people here have the Σ150-600C and swear by it.
Mark L may expound the virtues of the same in S (Sports) version (and it
has them). But that one certainly requires biceps compared to the C, and
is dearer. Your idea, or the S, or a Tamron or NIkon version should all be
suitable.

Yes, consider buying S/H, if you can ensure some reasonable warranty.
Look online for some simple lens-tests you can do during such a warranty
period.

There's also grey market, but Σ (and others) will not cover lenses bought
that way. That means any repairs (if you don't get a replacement) will be
by non-Σ/-Canon/-etc authorised repairers. From "normal" retailers you
should get genuine warranties.

[Bensch]

Can't recommend the Sigma 150-600 highly enough.

I've had one of the 'C' versions for several years now, and it has never let me down.

Great optical quality to cost ratio :th3:

[ameerat42]

(^Ah, so that's who one was :D)

[tandeejay]

I just got the C version, as an "upgrade" for my Nikon 55-300. I'm glad I got the C version not the S version. The S version has an extra kg on the weight. But if you need the weather sealing, then the extra weight and cost might be worth it.

I was happy to pay extra for additional 2 year extended warranty

So far, the Tawny Frogmouth has seen it a few times :D but I'm taking it out for a walk in Oxley Creek Commons on Saturday.

[GorgeWalker]

What's this weather sealing I keep hearing about? So I can find myself in the odd light shower now and then... will the C be a problem?

[Bensch]

What's this weather sealing I keep hearing about? So I can find myself in the odd light shower now and then... will the C be a problem?

I've been caught in a few light showers while out with the C version, and hasn't been an issue, but I also have a LensCoat cover on it as well (well worth the money).

Anything more than a light shower, and I take out a rain cover for the lens/camera, haven't had an issue so far (knock on wood).

For me, it wasn't worth the trade-off for weight and cost to go for the S version. I do believe that the S also has a couple of extra elements in, but I've been perfectly happy with the C.

Happy to post some images captured with the lens, if you'd like. Just let me know :th3:

[tandeejay]

regarding weather sealing, I don't believe your D3500 is weather sealed, so getting a weather sealed lens, it would still not be wise to be out in the rain as your camera body would not like it...

[J.davis]

I have the C lens and bought it through 'The Good Guys' on interest free. Worked perfect.
PS get the dock as well while your at it. Can be very beneficial.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49911790798_d664861c7e_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j3wYvd)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49912625917_bf29296bb3_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j3BfKP)

[Glenda]

Both the Sigma and Tamron lenses give good results. The one thing you will have to get used to with Sigma lenses is that you have to turn them the opposite way to Nikon ones to zoom. Otherwise for their price, I'd go with one of them over the usually more expensive Nikon.

[arthurking83]

Weather sealing, the primary important aspect of it is dust, more than anything else.
Dust enters lenses very easily, especially zoom lenses. Think of them as vacuum chambers, as you zoom in and out. The lens extends and retracts, and to make this physical size variation easier, it need to vent air.
If water can't get into a lens that's weather sealed, then it will be a lot harder for most dust particles too as well.

I'd reckon that any of the lenses currently mentioned will be fine.
From experience tho, I think all will be a bit unwieldy on the small D3500(same as the D5500), for me they don't feel comfy at all. Not enough counter grip on the body for the right hand to help keep it on the straight and level.
On the D300 and D800(both much larger bodies) .. :th3:
The problem isn't the weight so much but the length, no matter at 150mm or 600mm, on a small body they feel far too front heavy by comparison to when fitted to a larger bodied(ie. grip) camera.

In terms of IQ, the most important aspect of this is going to be how you train yourself for it.
I'd say all these 150-600mm lenses are more like 500mm lenses. The drop off in sharpness between 500-600 can be noticeable, more so when cropped. But again, this drop in sharpness between 500 and 600mm is probably going to be less noticeable than your ability to shoot with it as you learn to use it.

If birding, some use tripods, some use monopods. When some of the best photographers use tripods you know they must work.
I just do it handheld myself, can be tiring, and I'm lazy and I generally give up easily, so when the birds are being obnoxious and anti social, I'll pull out the tripod and shoot landscapey stuff :p

I've mentioned this before, but the 100-400 lenses from Sigma and Tamron could also be a viable option.
From all tests I've checked they appear a bit more higher quality in terms of resolution at 400mm than the 150-600's do at 600mm, and even some of the lenses at 400mm.
More importantly they're smaller light, and this helps with IQ at long focal lengths. They're cheaper too. IQ will be better than the Nikon 70-300 by some margin too.

That would be my recommendation, maybe the Sigma 100-400(plus the USB console) .... but I reckon the Tammy version would give good results too.

[ameerat42]

^A few pics from the users here would test these ideas about IQ drop-off.
The two pics above, when you dig into the EXIF info on the Flickr site, show
that they were shot at f=500mm (35mm equivalent). The actual focal length
would be good to have... John?

There are some shots like that on AP, but searching...

Here's one with the Σ150-600S at f=600...
http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?164486-Juvenile-Red-browed-Finches

Now for some Cs, Tammy...

[Bensch]

Here is a couple taken @ 600mm with the Sigma 150-600 'C' :th3:

https://live.staticflickr.com/7893/32634032837_c0e14aa8c4_k.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/4491/37426977900_40a1b5bdcd_k.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48691350961_c12f7e8c15_k.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49197524267_ecbeb31a7f_k.jpg

[GorgeWalker]

^A few pics from the users here would test these ideas about IQ drop-off.
The two pics above, when you dig into the EXIF info on the Flickr site, show
that they were shot at f=500mm (35mm equivalent). The actual focal length
would be good to have... John?

There are some shots like that on AP, but searching...

Here's one with the Σ150-600S at f=600...
http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?164486-Juvenile-Red-browed-Finches

Now for some Cs, Tammy...

There's a photo of a silver eye in Johns album @600mm that's pretty convincing... so is that little finch!

- - - Updated - - -


Here is a couple taken @ 600mm with the Sigma 150-600 'C' :th3:

Yeah....sold lol!

[ameerat42]

Mark's thread? - I counted 19 finches all up, which nearly comes to two feet :o

[GorgeWalker]

Mark's thread? - I counted 19 finches all up, which nearly comes to two feet :o

No - in J.Davis' flickr album. Not sure I'm allowed to link - but was a few photos up from the ones he posted in this thread. Really nice photos, as are Bensch's :nod: (Just noticed what you did there :D)

- - - Updated - - -

Additional question, a complete noob question.

I understand the Sigma 150-600mm C is a full frame lens, correct?

My understanding is this will work fine on my current body, which is a crop sensor. And would also work on a full frame camera if I ever upgrade that way in the future?

[Bensch]

Additional question, a complete noob question.

I understand the Sigma 150-600mm C is a full frame lens, correct?

My understanding is this will work fine on my current body, which is a crop sensor. And would also work on a full frame camera if I ever upgrade that way in the future?

Correct, it will work perfectly on both crop and full frame :th3:

[ameerat42]

Re linking to non-yours images: you can't display them, but you can quote the web-page
they are on. And you can't ask for CC on them (See Site Rules in tab above). You can anyway link
to a particular post here on AP. To ensure you link to the specific post you want, rather than to the
whole thread, go to the post, then click on the #post number (eg #16). The post moves to the top
of the screen, and then you can copy the URL. It will be for that post.

On lenses...
And be prepared for people quoting you "equivalent focal lengths" for crop-sensor cameras.
They mean "equivalent field/angle-of-view", but the intent gets easily blurred into the idea
that such lenses (for full-frame cameras) give crop-sensor cams some magical "extra reach".
This can then become a belief:eek:

Do some simple geometry/trig/maths on subject/image sizes, FL/Subject distances...
Ie, the image size subtended by any given lens does not change with camera sensor size.

[GorgeWalker]

I may have gotten shutter finger happy....

[GorgeWalker]

Weather sealing, the primary important aspect of it is dust, more than anything else.
Dust enters lenses very easily, especially zoom lenses. Think of them as vacuum chambers, as you zoom in and out. The lens extends and retracts, and to make this physical size variation easier, it need to vent air.
If water can't get into a lens that's weather sealed, then it will be a lot harder for most dust particles too as well.

I'd reckon that any of the lenses currently mentioned will be fine.
From experience tho, I think all will be a bit unwieldy on the small D3500(same as the D5500), for me they don't feel comfy at all. Not enough counter grip on the body for the right hand to help keep it on the straight and level.
On the D300 and D800(both much larger bodies) .. :th3:
The problem isn't the weight so much but the length, no matter at 150mm or 600mm, on a small body they feel far too front heavy by comparison to when fitted to a larger bodied(ie. grip) camera.

In terms of IQ, the most important aspect of this is going to be how you train yourself for it.
I'd say all these 150-600mm lenses are more like 500mm lenses. The drop off in sharpness between 500-600 can be noticeable, more so when cropped. But again, this drop in sharpness between 500 and 600mm is probably going to be less noticeable than your ability to shoot with it as you learn to use it.

If birding, some use tripods, some use monopods. When some of the best photographers use tripods you know they must work.
I just do it handheld myself, can be tiring, and I'm lazy and I generally give up easily, so when the birds are being obnoxious and anti social, I'll pull out the tripod and shoot landscapey stuff :p

I've mentioned this before, but the 100-400 lenses from Sigma and Tamron could also be a viable option.
From all tests I've checked they appear a bit more higher quality in terms of resolution at 400mm than the 150-600's do at 600mm, and even some of the lenses at 400mm.
More importantly they're smaller light, and this helps with IQ at long focal lengths. They're cheaper too. IQ will be better than the Nikon 70-300 by some margin too.

That would be my recommendation, maybe the Sigma 100-400(plus the USB console) .... but I reckon the Tammy version would give good results too.

Thanks for the feedback re weather sealing.

Regarding the lens and body combo - I reckon I'll eventually upgrade the body. When the time comes.

With a 300mm in the inventory, I don't really feel like a 400mm will be much of an upgrade. I think having the 300mm and a 600mm will be the perfect combo.

I ended up purchasing the Sigma (yes, I know, happened quick but was on special and thought may as well get it over and done with!). Also bought the dock, the hood and got cheeky and threw in a Manfrotto tripod. Yes...cheeky indeed.

Completely forgot to look at a bag... as I think I will need a backpack now!

[Bensch]

Congrats on your purchase :th3:

[J.davis]

^A few pics from the users here would test these ideas about IQ drop-off.
The two pics above, when you dig into the EXIF info on the Flickr site, show
that they were shot at f=500mm (35mm equivalent). The actual focal length
would be good to have... John?
.


Both were shot at 500

This one at 600

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49916076567_e90649fcaa_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j3UWvM)

[ameerat42]

Ta, John...

[Glenda]

Have fun with your new gear and looking forward to seeing what you can do with it.

[GorgeWalker]

Thanks John. Splendid shot. Getting me excited!

And thanks Glenda - looking forward to it!

[GorgeWalker]

Just got an SMS that something is being delivered today :banana::party7:

[arthurking83]

Just got an SMS that something is being delivered today :banana::party7:

I'll be there ASAP! :lol:

But seriously, we should catch up one day and compare notes, would like to get some shots with it to compare against my 'S' version.
(and of course you could have one or two shots with the 'S' version too ... if you really must! :p)

will be looking forward to your results

[GorgeWalker]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49921999897_a9825d3e3e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j4rija)

It arrived during the day - so many meetings so only got to play a little at about 3.30pm and was pretty dull and drab.

Still. Managed better shots than I could previously in those types of conditions. Will have a look after peak hour here at the house and post something up :cool:

On a side note, I did not realise that it came with a hood. I bought one with the lens! :lol2:

[Bensch]

On a side note, I did not realise that it came with a hood. I bought one with the lens! :lol2:

Two hoods are better than one :lol:

But seriously, congrats on the purchase (and quick delivery) :th3:

[GorgeWalker]

Two hoods are better than one :lol:

But seriously, congrats on the purchase (and quick delivery) :th3:

Yeah - really surprised at how quick. I paid for express post but still expected it early next week. Was pleasantly surprised.

Problem is the extra hood and tripod are on order. Should I cancel the extra hood or is it worth having an extra?

[Bensch]

Yeah - really surprised at how quick. I paid for express post but still expected it early next week. Was pleasantly surprised.

Problem is the extra hood and tripod are on order. Should I cancel the extra hood or is it worth having an extra?

If you can cancel the extra hood without losing any money, then it would be a good idea.

The hoods are quite robust, so probably no need to have an extra one.

[Mary Anne]

Congrats on your new lens.

[tandeejay]

I lost a hood once... It was the one from my 55-300mm lens which has a clip on lens so when I poked the lens through the wires on the sandgate pier to get a better shot of the cormorants, the wire brushed against the hood and knocked it off and i watched it sink out of sight...

The sigma's hood is much more robustly attached so that should never be an issue...

Sent from my LG-M700 using Tapatalk

[GorgeWalker]

Time to flaunt my new purchase. Not the best pics, was later in the day and a realy gloomy one in Melbourne. But I'm really impressed - the results out of the 300mm would have been far worse!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49922124748_762fae4cf8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j4rWqL)
Australasian Grebe (https://flic.kr/p/2j4rWqL)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49922125163_84259af4e4_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j4rWxV)
Eastern grey kangaroo and joey (https://flic.kr/p/2j4rWxV)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49922125448_7c4dbefb94_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j4rWCQ)
Eastern grey kangaroo and joey (https://flic.kr/p/2j4rWCQ)

[ameerat42]

^Congs on all the foregoing, GW. Flaunt some more pics in the CC forums now.

If that extra hood didn't cost much OK, but can you return it? - Esp if you got
it from the same store. Tell 'em that you were advised wrongly. I suspect that
if you ever need a new lens hood, you might well be needing a new lens :eek:

[GorgeWalker]

^Congs on all the foregoing, GW. Flaunt some more pics in the CC forums now.

If that extra hood didn't cost much OK, but can you return it? - Esp if you got
it from the same store. Tell 'em that you were advised wrongly. I suspect that
if you ever need a new lens hood, you might well be needing a new lens :eek:

Was $70! Yeah. All same place.

I’ve emailed. Offered to just put the cash to a better tripod than the one I ordered. :D

[ameerat42]

If hassled, remember you relied on their advice...

[GorgeWalker]

If hassled, remember you relied on their advice...

Well. That’s the thing. On the website. They have a section of what’s in the box and the hood isn’t listed. :confused013

[Bensch]

Well. That’s the thing. On the website. They have a section of what’s in the box and the hood isn’t listed. :confused013

Yep, that should be enough if they want to try and argue the point :th3:

[GorgeWalker]

Yep, that should be enough if they want to try and argue the point :th3:

Didn’t have to argue in the end. They were awesome about it.

Ended up having a chat with the guy who was a keen birder and he helped me make a better choice. Even upgraded lol (this was after they agreed to let me exchange so a great experience with this mob).

[Bensch]

Didn’t have to argue in the end. They were awesome about it.

Ended up having a chat with the guy who was a keen birder and he helped me make a better choice. Even upgraded lol (this was after they agreed to let me exchange so a great experience with this mob).


Always nice when that happens and they are accommodating :th3: