Advice Please

[jmurph]

Hey everyone, Im a reptile keeper with very limited photograpy experience (hopefully that will soon change). The main reason for getting a camera is to take fairly close animal photos say within 3 meters or so but the majority being much closer. I think it would be really great to capture reptile tongue shots in the photos & a lot of the animals I plan to take pics of are always moving which will have to be taken into account. Id like to stick with Canon as Ive had a little experience with one in the past & liked it. Im looking at a Canon EOS 80D w/ EF-S 18-135mm IS USM Lens Digital SLR camera. Would this camera/lens package suit my needs? Any advice would be awesome guys thanks.

Regards,
Jonas

[ricktas]

Hi Jonas. Welcome to AP.

If you want to get close up shots of tongues etc you will need a different lens. A macro lens will provide a better choice of lens over the 18-135 which is a general purposes lens.

Not being a Canon person, I have no experience with their macro lenses, but I am sure others will be able to give you some advice on a specific macro lens for your needs. For third party brand lenses the Tamron, f2.8 90mm macro would be a good choice. Just make sure you get the right lens for the camera you buy. Third party lenses are made to fit most brands and you have to choose the lens to suit your camera body.

[jmurph]

Thanks for the great info Ricktas, thats exactly why I joined this forum. Ill check out that macro lens you suggested as well as others that will fit the camera Im looking at.

[nardes]

Hi Jonas

A "true" macro lens is usually described as 1:1. That is, a 5mm long insect in the real world will be recorded as a 5mm long image by the camera sensor when you are at the Closest Focus or Minimum Focusing Distance (MFD) of the macro lens.

It is important to understand the effect of the MFD for different focal length macro lenses.

A 50mm or 60mm macro lens at 1:1 will have an MFD of around 10cms.
a 100mm macro lens at 1:1 will have an MFD of around 25cms.

That is, you have to have the front of the lens closer to your subject for the shorter focal length macro lenses, so if you want to keep a distance of around 25 to 30 cms from your reptile, you will need a macro lens of 100mm focal length and you need to shoot at the MFD to get the 1:1 image scale.

Cheers

Dennis

[Mary Anne]

Hello and Welcome to AP Jonas... So many choices out there for Macro lenses. And good tips from Dennis above.

If by chance your next camera would be a Full Frame Camera not a cropped frame like the 80D you would not be able to use that EF-S lens you wrote about above on any of the 5D's or 6's FF models.
So best to look for EF lenses if your budget allows, that will fit on all the DSLR cameras.

I have shot big Spiders from 30cms away, though I would not be happy being that close to a snake not only that you have to use Manual focus.
I would be moving to the next setting on my Canon EF IS 100mm macro lens to get further away.
Or you can use a Zoom Lens say the Canon EF f/4 70-200mm at 1.5 mts or further away and crop, just a thought :D

[jmurph]

Thanks for the advice everyone, this is a great forum. Looks like I have a bit of research to do on macro lenses.

[jmurph]

Ok guys..so after doing a bit of research Im looking at a Cannon 90D w/EF-S 18-135mm IS USM. By the sounds that lens will be fairly decent for general purpose use. Then for the up close shots Im thinking about getting the Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM. Do you think this set up & 2 lenses will work for my intended use? Thanks.

[nardes]

I started off on my macro photography journey with the Canon EF-S 60mm F2.8 lens and the results were as good as my next purchase, which was the Canon 100mm F2.8 Macro lens. My reason for the upgrade was simply to get a longer working distance from the subject. You will not be disappointed with the 60mm macro, it is a very sharp lens.

Here are a couple of images from 2008 with my Canon 40D using the 60mm F2.8 Macro.

Cheers

Dennis

Full frame shot
143594

Cropped on the eyes
143595

[arthurking83]

..... Then for the up close shots Im thinking about getting the Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM. Do you think this set up & 2 lenses will work for my intended use? Thanks.

I'd suggest the Sigma 105 OS lens, or the Tamron 90 USD lenses.
Only a few dollars more from most shops, but overall more flexibility in what they allow you.

Like Mary Ann said, I'd avoid the EF-S type mount, only in that it limits your possible future usage flexibility.
That is, pay only a few dollars more now, saves you possibly having to pay it all over again in the future.

[Tannin]

Arthur's advice is good here. (Well, it's pretty good most of the time, but you know whats I mean.)

The Canon 60mm macro is a wonderful lens. I owned one for years and really liked it. However, it has three drawbacks:

(i) No IS. Image stabilisation is really, really useful. I'd stop short of calling it essential, but it is a major plus - in a macro lens or any other.
(ii) EF-S mount. You can't keep it when you upgrade to a full frame camera body one day.
(iii) 60mm is a bit short for many uses, probably including yours.

At around $660 it's fair value, but the Tamron 90mm is the same price (+ longer focal length, + true EF mount fits any camera (not EF-S), - Tamron rather than Canon)
At around $760 we have the Canon 100mm macro (non-IS model) which is excellent but still doesn't have IS.
At around $900 there is the Tamron 90mm IS model, which strikes me as a good idea.
At $930, the Sigma 105 with IS
At $1330, the Canon 100mm IS macro, which is undoubtedly the best lens of the whole lot, but not cheap.

These are just the ones listed at my normal retailer today. There are others worth considering, notably the Tokina.

[jmurph]

Thanks for the advice guys. Ive been doing a heap of research & kind of have a bit more understanding now. Just to throw a spanner in the works..what does everyone think of the Canon RP in general & how do you think it would go paired with a Canon RF 35mm f/1.8 IS STM Macro lens? The lens seems to have fairly good reviews from what Ive seen but I know it isn't a true Macro lens. Im thinking instead of buying 2 lenses like I was looking at straight away if I did get that combo I would have a general purpose lens + a lens that might do fairly well at close detailed wildlife shots? Also would it be any good for insect photos or I would need a true Macro lens for that as the more I research the more amazed I am with up close insect photos as well. Sorry for the questions.

[Tannin]

You are looking at a 60-100mm lens on your 80D, JM. The RP is full frame, meaning that for an equivalent field of view, you'd need a 100-180mm lens. A 35mm lens is way, way too short, especially on an RP.

I do not advise getting into Canon (or any other brand) mirrorless cameras at this stage. The technology simply isn't finished. I own an EOS R (a model up from the little RP and significantly superior) and despite many things to like about it, it is the most fiddly, awkward, and annoying camera I have ever owned. Some people like them. Damned if I know why though.

Get a true macro lens. Make that your first priority. Spend what that takes. You can buy an 80D bundled with Canon's EF-S 18-55mm lens. It is a perfectly competent little lens, very practical and versatile, nothing fancy but amply capable of partnering your 90mm macro lens (or 100mm, 105, whichever). And you get one, with a new camera, for practically nothing. Don't worry about it being EF-S only, if you want to upgrade one day you can just throw it away and still only be out by a few dollars.

[jmurph]

Thanks for the reply Tannin. The only reason I was looking at mirrorless is because I keep reading about the mirrorless being better technology. I think I will stick with the 80D & pair it with a true macro lens. Just one more question as far as true macro lenses go how would you rate the Cannon EF 100mm f/2.8L IS USM Macro lens & would I be able to use it on other cameras when I eventually upgrade?

[Mary Anne]

I am not Tannin though I shoot Macro most days.

In my opinion I rate that combo very high, as I use it all the time now.

Yesterday morning I took my Canon 80D with the Cannon EF 100mm f/2.8L IS USM Macro lens on looking for Insects and shot them hand held as always.

That Canon Lens will fit all Canon DSLR Cameras at this time and should in the future, though I cannot see into that Sorry :D

[Tannin]

The Canon 100 macro is an excellent lens, JM, in all respects other than that it has no image stabilisation. Canon makes another, newer, 100mm macro lens, the 100L macro, which is slightly better again so far as clarity and build quality goes (who cares? the original is plenty good enough on both counts) but more importantly, has IS. Unfortunately, it's around $400 dearer. I can't really advise you on that choice, it all depends on your budget (you know more about that than I do) and how much you will benefit from IS. (Some people don't much care about it either way, others recon it's almost an essential. You won't know your own view until you have gained enough experirnce with and without it - but you need to decide now. Tough choice!)

Just to reiterate, the Canon 100 macro (non-L, without IS) is an excellent lens. Most people would regard it as marginally superior optically to the various non-IS third-party lenses is the same class (90 and 105mm ones mostly) but enough to really matter at all. It is less likely to experience focus or compatibility issues than a third-party lens, but these issues are rare these days and not something I'd worry about. (10 or 15 years ago was different.) My own choice would be the IS Canon, followed by all the third-party IS lenses, followed by the Canon non-L, followed by the others - and in reality, any of them would do me just fine. But then I always was a shocker for spending way too much on lenses. Quite silly really. No kids, house paid for, I don't smoke, and don't drink or eat out much ... so why not? You have to spend it on something!

- - - Updated - - -

Mary Anne, by the way, knows more about macro than I ever will. She is the guru.

[nardes]

Thanks for the reply Tannin. The only reason I was looking at mirrorless is because I keep reading about the mirrorless being better technology. I think I will stick with the 80D & pair it with a true macro lens. Just one more question as far as true macro lenses go how would you rate the Cannon EF 100mm f/2.8L IS USM Macro lens & would I be able to use it on other cameras when I eventually upgrade?

I have used the Canon EF 100mm F2.8L IS USM on my Canon 7D Mk II (APS-C), Canon 5D Mk IV (Full Frame DSLR) , Canon EOS R (FF Mirrorless with adapter) and Canon EF-M (APS-C Mirrorless with adapter) with no problems or issues.

It is a very nice lens.:)

Cheers

Dennis

[jmurph]

Awesome, thanks heaps guys Ill stick with that combo with the exception of possibly getting a 90D instead of the 80D as its not really that much more expensive but still doing a bit of research on that one:)

[Tannin]

If the price is close, 90D all the way for sure. Significantly more advanced, higher resolution sensor, better low light performance, significantly more advanced autofocus system, plus a few little tweaks that probably don't matter much but can't hurt ... 90D is well worth paying a bit extra for. Enjoy!

[jmurph]

Just ordered a Canon 90D with a EF 100mm IS Macro lens. Cant thank everyone enough for their advice.