Backup through Tablet

[davidd]

I am going travelling in a few weeks. Previously when I have travelled I have had a laptop computer which I used to copy files off the camera memory card using a card reader, and then copy those onto a small USB hard drive. This gave me 3 copies of each photo, if I didn't clear the camera card, and two copies if I did.

My laptop has since died (RIP), and I don't want to buy a new one, I always use the desktop at home.

I have come up with this plan, to use a USB OTG cable to connect the card reader to a Samsung tablet (with 128Gb of memory), and copy the files into the tablet, then still using the OTG cable, copy those files onto a 128 Gb USB stick. This effectively gives me the same backup ability as I had previously.

I have tried this with my phone in place of the tablet (which I haven't purchased yet) and it all works fine, if a little slow. Both the phone and the tablet are Samsung, so should give the same result.

Anyone else tried something like this?

Here is the equipment.

141001

[ameerat42]

Like, but not with this gear. It should work OK, but my reservation would be to use a stick at all. My alt preference
would be for a $79 Toshiba Canvio 1 TB drive (or two, but not 2TB).

Now, if I were going on that trip I'd buy another laptop, just for the ability to seriously edit something while away.
(From experience and now distant memory, tablets are pretty modest performers.)

As an example, a rel just bought a very snappy Acer (among a couple of other brands but this best for features)
that is featherweight, small, 14" full HD touch, a heap of well laid out USB3 ports, 8 GB RAM, a very late Core I5,
and (the only concession to economy) only a single 250 GB SSD. - Snappy as!! (After setting it up I wanted to keep it:D)

- - - Updated - - -

^^Raving and forgot to add: Slightly less weight your way, but way less performance.

[davidd]

Hi, thanks for reply.

I am not looking to do any editing, merely backup storage.

I have a 250Gb SSD drive in a small enclosure, works fine connected to the computer through USB, without needing a separate power supply, but the phone (or tablet I presume) does not have enough power to power the drive through the USB port.
Actually I might take it along just in case I can scrounge a few minutes on someone elses computer. :)

I would hate to get back and find I've lost all the photos due to a memory card failure.

[ameerat42]

^ My not-so-hot experience is with an Atom-powered HP "separatable" keyboard/tablet
affair that has 64GB total storage, though it runs on Win 10. (Somebody gave it to me:o)

[davidd]

One slight hitch has arisen in this scheme. It seems the tablet is unable to see CF cards in the card reader, (they show up fine when connected to my computer), so it seems I will have to rely on SD cards only in my D810. :confused013

[ameerat42]

There's gotter be a reason, DD. Can you pls supply the model of the tablet, size of card(s).

From reports, it's not CF cards alone that are problematic with such devices.

- - - Updated - - -

PS: I suspect it's something easy and I reckon you should solve it before you leave.
Having such a limitation would [cause relative substance movement due to differential fluid pressure over a distance] :eek:

[mpb]

I used the same setup on my trip to Sri Lanka using a Samsung Note 8 ( a relatively old 8 inch table not the phone note 8). I am pretty sure my SSD (portable type) worked on the tablet.

It worked well, although a bit slow compared to doing it through a computer. I did do some limited editing on the tablet, however it was not very satisfactory.
My camera has SD cards, I have not tried it with a CF card, it seems strange that the tablet can not see the CF card.

I have since replaced the dying laptop and dead tablet with a surface pro and now use that. Much quicker and editing is similar to the laptop.

[ameerat42]

Well I'll eat my hat but there are no refs to CF cards for this problem. There are
heaps for SD cards not being detected. About the only useful one is on this page. (https://thedroidguy.com/2019/08/solved-samsung-galaxy-note-8-cannot-read-micro-sd-card-after-software-update-1091548)
It has to do with a Galaxy Note 8 and SD cards, but the ideas may be relevant :confused013

[davidd]

[QUOTE=ameerat42;1491307]There's gotter be a reason, DD. Can you pls supply the model of the tablet, size of card(s).

Its a Galaxy Tab A, 8". The CF card is a Sandisk Extreme Pro 32Gb.

[ameerat42]

Wow, again!
Yet another - this time CF specific - instance of the problem :eek:
https://forums.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-note-10-1/268121-import-photos-cf-card.html

The obvious:
Have you tried another non-OTG cable? (Corollary: is your device OTG compatible?)
Have you tried another card reader?
Are the tablet and card reader matched for USB standard, like 2 or 3?
Does the card reader require extra power (for CFs) that the tablet can't supply?
...
...

- - - Updated - - -

PS: By-and-by AK, JK, Swifty, or Tannin, etc should amble along with a bright light...

[ameerat42]

I thought I had a Samsung tablet - but it's an
HP Pavilion XP Detachable. However, here's something it can do, and a
Samsung tablet shouldn't be far behind...
141087
Pls excuse a smidgin of camera shake :o

[davidd]

Hi Am, the OTG cable works fine when connected to a USB drive, or to the card reader with an SD card inserted.
The card reader works fine with a CF card inserted when connected to my PC. (Update: Tried another card reader that only accepts CF cards, same result.)

It is only when connected to the tablet and the CF card is inserted the device simply ignores it, does not ask me to insert a card or anything. Just does not respond at all.:confused013


Your HP Pavilion is probably running Windows, but the Samsung tablet is running Android. I don't think Android can recognise CF cards.

[ameerat42]

...Your HP Pavilion is probably running Windows, but the Samsung tablet is running Android. I don't think Android can recognise CF cards.

Oh, I see :cool:

[arthurking83]

Try connecting the OTG adapter to the camera.
This is what I used to do.
As the camera is self powered, it doesn't draw power from the USB host device.

I used to use my SGT 7"(Android 4.4) with my D300 way back.
Was an OK system, loaded a few apps to view images, loaded something(can't recall now) to view NEF files directly.
Screen wasn't too nice, so the plan to possibly edit some images as time allowed went down like a lead balloon!
Bit it was handy to be able to review some images on a larger screen when time allowed.
More importantly was the backup.
I used to backup to a portable HDD.

In saying all this tho, my OTG cable/device was slightly different to what I just scrolled up and saw in your pic.
The Galaxy Tab of old had this totally silly 'Apple like' connector(not straight USB type port), and the OTG adapter I found has car reading ports on it, and a USB host port(like you PC does .. a USB A plug)
SO I could use it as a reader, or as a USB host converter(Android does USB host). Had to flip a small switch between car slots and USB port for it to recognise the camera .. but my CF card reader was the camera.
Never failed.

With the CF card issue:
try some stuff ...

1/. format the CF card via Windows, use exfat or fat32. see if this recognises the CF card.
2/. do you have any SD cards. D810 series has 1CF and 1 SD card slot. If you have any SD cards, take some images saved on the SD card using the camera, see if this works.(this is assuming you're shooting NEF, not jpg.
3/. a couple of test shots using jpg mode on the D810 on the CF cards. Does the tablet see the jpgs on the CF card now?
4/. have you loaded a NEF codec on the tablet?
Basically the above relates to the ability for Android to 'see' NEF file types. Natively it doesn't, so you need an app that does, or an NEF codec(decoder) on the tablet. Just get an app that allows you to view raw files.

I know CF cards can be weird(ie do weird things).
I went from a D300 to a D800E. The CF card I used in the D300(Patriot brand) was a ripper(for the time) .. super fast, never let me down.
No way I could get the Patriot CF card to work in the D800E, even tho it worked perfectly in the D300! :confused013
I got a reasonably fast Lexar CF card for the D800E, but the Patriot CF card was faster(testing on Windows) .. just wouldn't work on the D800E.

But as above CF cards natively should work on Android, as long as they're formatted OK(ie. not NTFS). Can't remember what format Nikon use .. I think FAT32 .. which is fine on Android anyhow.

Also to note .. the host device(ie. smart phone, PC, tablet .. etc .. these are the Host devices) .. they actually don't see the card directly.
The see the card via the adapter. The adapter could be anything, just so happens that your adapter is device A from manufacturer B(ie. your card reader).
The card itself is an ATA device, like the old gen hard drives, that used the UDMA1-7 interface .. now HDDs are SATA.
So the CF card is something like a UDMA6 or 7 device .. not really a CF card.
The card reader is a UDMA(or ATA) to USB adapter. The Host 'sees' the storage device only via the adapter, so could be the card reader.
So technically speaking, you don't see the card itself, you see its file system via the interface type it uses(that UDMA/ATA/SATA/USB stuff).

I'm thinking tho, that most likely is that you have NEF files on the card, and Android can't see these.
Note when I mention the NEF(or raw) codec, I don't mean a converter as such. I mean you could convert them if you want too, but if you got an app that can convert raw files(ie. NEF) to jpg, then it can read NEF files.
As long as this app is flexible enough that you can point it to any directory/device .. then you should be able to see the files on the CF card(not so much the CF card itself)

Easy test to do for now(to gather more data) is .. connect camera to tablet via the OTG lead. See if this works first.
And have both NEF and jpg files to play with.
I reckon, as long as the card reader is fine, then if you had two images one in NEF and one in jpg, using even a simple app like Gallery, you should see the jpg file on the CF card.


One other tip, look for an app for the tablet(or phone) called X-plore. It's a file browser.
I used to use ES File Explorer, but it turned to garbage. Found X-Plore much better replacement anyhow .. so even if ES was still unbloated rubbish .. would have changed to X-Plore anyhow.
Might seem a little confusing at first .. but it's so much more intuitive once got used too.

[davidd]

Hi Arthur, thanks for the long explanation.

One thing, I don't believe it is NEF files upsetting it, I can download NEF files from the SD card with no problem. However when I insert a CF card and plug the card reader in, there is no reaction from the tablet at all, it doesn't even register I've done anything.
I will try plugging in the card reader with both cards in, and see what happens. However, another problem has just arisen, when I turn on the tablet, it starts in 'Safe Mode', and when I turn off Safe Mode, it restarts again, still in Safe Mode. I will investigate further, but have other more pressing tasks to do right now. ( Update: Safe Mode problem fixed. ;) )
Will report back later.

[arthurking83]

The process of figuring out what and why could be a slow one.
It's a matter of 'process of elimination'.

Have you connected the D810 directly yet. (to the OTG adapter, that is).

I'll have a play with any CF card readers I have.
I know I have a couple, one right here, Lexar USB3, and also see what happens.
I think(maybe 50% sure) I may have tried using a card reader(USB2) connected to the Tab .. but really can't remember well.
Because camera worked, I just used it as the card reader .. less stuff to carry and potentially lose.

[arthurking83]

What version of Android on the Tab A?

[davidd]

Hi, Android version is 9.

I tried connecting the camera, it recognised the camera, but was not able to see any files on the CF card (or the CF card itself).
It opens a 'Camera Importer' app, and shows the photos on the SD card, but does not see anything else (no CF card).

I have tried 2 different card readers, same result.
Searching with Google brings up many queries about this same thing, but no solutions.
I think that Android just is unable to see or read CF cards.

Looks like I'll have to rely on SD cards on the trip.

[ameerat42]

From all the ^-going, next would be:
"Hello, Samsung? - How do yer..." :rolleyes:

[arthurking83]

....
I think that Android just is unable to see or read CF cards.

Looks like I'll have to rely on SD cards on the trip.

OK, it is hardware related, but not what you think.

Android can see CF cards(remember my arduous post above, that it doesn't strictly see the CF card, it sees it's file system via an inbuilt adapter).
Anyhow. I can't get my Tab7 to see any of my cards via the OTG and a card reader .. neither the SD card nor the CF, and on an old USB2 reader and a Lexar USB3 reader.

My OTG is a little different to yours in that it's also a card reader(large dongle thing) and with a flip switch I also have a USB(A) port out to whatever I need.

If I connect the D800E, it sees it via the USB port, but now can't see the files on either card(I have to work that out).
If I connect the D300 to the USB port, it sees the files and the D300 only has a single CF slot.
My Tab 7 is old Android 4.4.

SO as it's now doing my head in .. I had to test other variables too.
On my S8+, it came with it's own OTG adapter, noting that this is a USB-C to USB-A port .. a small cube looking thing.
Haven't used it at all till just now.
So, now on the S8+, connect the D800E, and it instantly pops up as a storage device.
Also! .. connect either of the card readers to the S8+'s OTG adapter and both work, where I couldn't get them too on the Tab7.

So Android does see CF cards(remember above .. it doesn't really care what the card is).

And a few things I'm seeing that may point to a clue as to what the issue could be:
On the Tab7, one of the notifications that pop up when connecting the card reader is that it's a 'high powered' device and not connected.
So it sees it, but Droid 4.4 and/or the actual device(now being quite old) can't power it up .. whereas newer hardware can.
My S8+ is also Android 9, so with that info, I'd say it's more a hardware thing considering your Tab A is also droid 9.

But remember my Tab7 does see the D800E(just not it's files), and does see the D300(and it's files).

Note too: I had my Tab7 setup for the same thing you want/need, and I installed quite a few apps to get the job done(just never used it as much as I thought).
Anyhow, I installed raw codecs, and other raw file capable programs(notable being DslrDashboard), and for some reason now they can't see the raw files on the D800(I'm thinking maybe because they're old versions)
Also of note is that I've replaced my Tab7(but still have it) with a Lenovo M10 .. haven't tried it with the M10 tho.

Took a quick photo with the D800(SD card in place) of the S8+ with the card reader and reading the CF card with a single NEF file on it.
I don't use my smart phone for such stuff, and have never installed raw codec apps or anything like that on it, so some later versions of Android are natively capable of viewing camera raw files.
Kind'a makes sense really as Google did give Android raw file capture capability a few years back(I think they do DNG format).

141111

I think 2 possible solutions:
1/. Try X-Plore app on the tab A and use the camera as the 'card reader' .. at least see if this works. Camera is self powered so won't be the drain on the device that a card reader could be.
If you do try to use the X-Plore app, on your Tab A, and want it to access your camera directly you need to change a setting in the app.
In the app, go to settings, and scroll down near the end and look for the option to directly read the OTG adapter. I think it's Use X-Plore USB - Driver.
It's obvious, as it explains it's purpose.

If your CF card issue is power related, I suggest you could get a dedicated CF card reader.
I remember some years back I set a particular type on my ebay watch list. Looks like a USB thumbdrive but has a CF card slot on one side. These are (apparently)lower power devices, so could do the trick.
About $20 on ebay IIRC.

[davidd]

See later post

[ameerat42]

Porgess!- which is "progress" of sorts:D

[davidd]

Well, strange happenings!

Yesterday when I plugged my Multi-card reader in to the tablet, it worked fine, but only with SD card. It ignored the CF card. When I plugged my CF-only reader in, it ignored it.
I installed X-plore as suggested, and after fighting with it for a while, seem to be winning. ;)

Today, when I tried the multi-reader again, it could not see either card! I then tried the CF-only reader, and it worked, it could READ CF FILES! :D

The Multi-reader works fine when connected to my computer.

When I plug in the CF-only reader, the app asks 'Allow X-plore to access Extreme 2.0 reader'. When I tap Allow, it shows the CF card and files, and allows me to copy them.
When I plug in the Multi-reader, it asks 'Allow X-plore to access USB reader' When I tap Allow, it just does nothing.

It would appear I need a new card-reader? Maybe get an SD only reader, and use different readers for the different cards?
Maybe the multi-reader is wanting too much power?

I also tried connecting directly to the camera. It opens a 'Camera Importer' app, which does allow me to import the photos from either card but will not show the files in X-plore.
However I am not fond of connecting the camera directly to anything else, so will keep this for emergencies only.

As an aside, the tablet is able to view the NEF files, so must have some sort of codec installed.

- - - Updated - - -

Now even stranger! The multi reader is now working, BUT ONLY SHOWING CF CARD. It cannot see the SD card!

This is doing my head in! :confused013

[arthurking83]

....

This is doing my head in! :confused013

LOL! same here.

I haven't tried my Lenovo M10, but obviously later Android has raw file support.
I knew it did raw files from the built in cameras(most models), but didn't know it had native support for other raw file types.
Progress :th3:

But doing my head in too.
Older D300 works fine, plug in, can't 'see' the NEF files, in that it can't decode them to view the thumbs, but still sees that a file type called xxxx.NEF is present and can do what I want.
This is just using the built in file explorer app.
raw aware apps can see the actual images of the NEF files.
D300 has a few connection modes when connected via USB, so no issues here at all.

So obviously Nikon removed the options for USB connected modes on cameras, shifting file transfer capability to the OS(ie. the various OSes out there) .. and Android finally got raw file support.

With my D800E tho, I connect the camera via USB, due to the apps I have installed(remaining) on the Tab 7, I get file explorer, Raw Droid and DLSRDashboard as my only three options.
None can see the files on either card tho!(the doing my head in bit).
I use File Explorer, I can see that a D800E is connected, as it's an option in the storage pane, but just black .. ie. no images(neither SD or CF).

So going by your desvription David, I'd say yeah... probably both a power issue and most likely flaky driver support too.
I remember seeing that max power draw on most Android devices through the USB is 500mA, so maybe the reader is right at that threshold.
Not an issue on any computer(PC/Linux/Apple) as they're usually more power capable(1A - 2A is not uncommon).

So a 'powered' USB device will be the better option. Dunno if you can get powered USB card readers .. could possibly try a powered hub.
That is, connect the card reader via a powered hub .. but then it's getting overly complicated.
Camera is self powered, so should be fine.

think of the analogy:
Connecting a USB connected SSD should be simpler as an SSD doesn't usually draw more than 500mA.
But connect a HDD, and the for HDD to be more stable, it needs to be a powered type. HDDs usually draw more than 500mA. Could possibly get away with using a lower powered USB HDD, but the risk could be losign data during transfer, just when power draw would be higher.

One last note on what I think we've worked out is the power issue:
Two things spring to mind. Search for a 'powered' OTG adapter and if you have some high quality USB cable, try them.
This could be an option for your setup, but I don't know.

I did try various USB cables, tried the Nikon USB cables too .. for me those times it didn't work, the cable made no difference.
eg. I tried the USB3 cable that the D800E came with, which is an obviously high quality cable compared to the flimsy micro USB cables that a card reader usually comes with .. no dice!

At the least! .. you know that the CF card should be readable, as I knew it would be, as I've never had issues.
My S8+ is close to 10year > tech, USB3 conencted, capable of higher power throughput on USB, so it's no surprise that it worked straight up no issues.
I'm assuming that the option to update the Galaxy Tab A isn't viable for you, but that is also one to look into.
A tablet with USB3 connectivity(like my M10) .. or any other with that setup could help with stability.

ps, For $230, best thing I did was update my TabII 7 with the M10.
Otherwise as a cheaper alternative search for a decent quality powered OTG adapter.

[davidd]

OK, new update.
I have purchased a new card reader. Unfortunately it has the same behaviour as the old one.

It shows the CF card and I can access the files with no problem, but is unable to see the SD card! :confused013

I have tried 2 different SD cards, with no result.
Why does it recognise only CF cards now, whereas the first day I tried, it would recognise only the SD card?

I don't think it's a power problem, because it works perfectly well with the CF card.

I have tried both 'My Files', the Samsung app, which worked for SD cards but not for CF on the first day, and X-plore, which works for the CF cards now.

A mystery....

[ameerat42]

Yes. - And almost all the refs to this problem point to SD cards not being seen.
So in a way you're vindicated - which is odd for it being a loss :p:p

[arthurking83]

1 more question:

when you test the ability to read the cards(both types) are you doing so one by one, or both at the same time(in the car reader that it) .. or a combination of both methods.

I assume you've done a combination(which I've tried) to no avail.

ATM for me, on my TabII, and with my current hardware, I just can't get access to any pics via the CF card at all on the D800E .. by any method. Noting that it's not a problem on the D300.
For me to get access to files off the D800E, I need to shoot onto the SD card and use that in the built in car reader on my OTG adapter.

That's progress I guess! :rolleyes:

I'm guessing that if the need arises tho, and I wanted to get access to files off the D800E(or any newer camera I ever get) .. the Lenovo M10 shouldn't have such fragility.

I will test the M10 at some point, always handy to know it's possible to do it.

[davidd]

It seems most of the problems reported are to do with the Micro SD card extended memory (internal).
My tablet sees the 128Gb Micro SD card without any problems, it is only the one in the card reader it cannot see.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Arthur
I have tried a combination many times.
Plugging the Camera in using the OTG cable opens the Camera Importer and allows me to access both cards (although it doesn't differentiate between photos on either card, showing them all together sorted by date.

[arthurking83]

......
Plugging the Camera in using the OTG cable opens the Camera Importer and allows me to access both cards (although it doesn't differentiate between photos on either card, showing them all together sorted by date.

At least that's a win. I can't get images/files to show on my D800E(on the TabII).

And from this, then the issue is almost certainly(99% sure) to do with power requirements on the card/reader combo.

So again I'm (99%) sure that if you had a 'powered' OTG adapter connected the card reader to that, then you shouldn't have issues.

I'll post a (ebay)link to one I think will work, if you dare to give it a go.
On the assumption you have a microUSB connect to the tablet too.

Aus 4-in-1 OTG powered (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-in-1-Micro-USB-OTG-Charge-HUB-Cable-for-Samsung-Galaxy-S6-S6-Edge-SM-G920-G925/301775379260?epid=805397254&hash=item464336db3c:g:VGsAAOSwkjBbj4Oo)

Note in the description for most of these type of adapters, they says won't work with hard disk!
With the caveat that I'm no electronics expert, but have some experience with, the assumption with this device is that it won't inject more than about 500mA through the (micro)USB system.
USB can easily handle up to 2amps tho.
The fact that it has a charge mode is a bit of a bonus, and the additional USB ports will mean you can connect additional USB devices(to the tablet).
Even tho it won't connect a hard disk, which I'm assuming mean mechanical HDDs, and usually need more than 1amp(can't recall exactly, but I think 2amp is about right) ... I suspect it will connect an SSD tho.
SSDs (good ones) usually only need about 500mA to run OK.

If my basic electronics serves me well(which it may or may not! :p) .. HDDs use about 10w, SSDs about 0.5 - 1w.
At 5v, this equals 2amp for a HDD, and about 100-200mA for an SSD.

So with the above in mind, and assuming that the cheapo Chinese OTG adapter can supply a stable 5(or more) volts, then you could connect the SD reader with both cards and the thumb drive.
With this setup, you could then transfer the files on the cards(via the reader) directly to the thumbdrive, and or the mSD card in the tablet.

You could even try using an SSD.

In fact I'd recommend to 'build your own' external SSD device. Easy to do, happy to recommend some parts if you like.
For approx $80, you could have an M.2 based 250G SSD setup as the storage device, or for a bit over $100, you could extend that to 480-500G, in a thumbdrive sized little storage unit.
Makes it all compact and most likely usable.

May sound like a bit of hoop jumping, but that's only if you don't understand it all.
In reality, it'll be compact. Flexible and usable. The only unknown for me would be the ability for that powered OTG adapter to supply 5 or more volts.
Many of these cheapo USB devices can only supply say 4.8 or 4.9 .. which is close, but can be flaky if pushed hard.
None of the devices will stress the powered OTG cable, except maybe if it's used in charge mode to charge the tablet at the same time .. ??

On the basis of this thread, I've actually ordered a cheap thumbrive CF reader($10) to test it with my gear.
I couldn't test my recommendations above, as my Galaxy tablet uses it's silly proprietary connector(not a mUSB type like yours does).

[davidd]

Hi Arthur, thanks for all the effort you are putting in!

I am not so sure about the power being a problem, as the system works fine for CF cards.
I have another theory! (I have a cunning plan! :D )

When I connect the Multi card reader to my PC, it shows up as 4 separate drives (F,G,H and I).
The CF card is drive F, and the SD card is drive G.

My theory is that the tablet is unable to show 4 drives at a time so only shows the first (the CF card).
The solution to this would appear to be getting a card reader that only does SD cards.

What do you think?

+



As regards the SSD drive, I actually have a 250Gb portable SSD drive that I built using the original Drive C from my PC, after I replaced it with a 500Gb SSD.
It works fine plugged into the PC, but does not work when plugged into the tablet, so power is probably a consideration there.

[ameerat42]

Hi DD.
Though not AK, do you think it can only see one card at a time in the reader?
So, either it see a CF, or an SD? I mean, have you tried that?

[arthurking83]

OK, found some old hardware, not used for a good many years.
I've been looking for this from the beginning where my D800E via card reader couldn't be recognised.

Anyhow, I'm not 100% sure it's a power thing.
Reason is, the microUSB connection format(from the tablet).

I don't think it was just a new model syndrome situation where my S8+ phone could immediately see stuff without issue.
Now, with the caveat that my Galaxy TabII uses it's proprietary silly connection(based on microUSB plugs), I found the power adapter for my powered USB hub.
That is, I have a USB hub with has a power brick that connects to it and passes power through each USB port to help those 'high power devices' operate .. and not rely entirely on the Host device(usually a PC) to power it up AND transfer data.

Cant remember exactly why I needed a powered USB hub, I know it wasn't for this purpose(using a tablet to store files off a camera/CF card)

I think I've said a few times now, I've never had an issue with my Galaxy TabII and the D300, I think I remember using a card reader but it may have only been as a test. I used to connect camera direct to TabII.

So now, for me I couldnt' get the D800E directly working. Connected but no files to see. Couldnt' get either SD card nor CF card via card reader either.
Connected card reader to the powered USB hub, powered USB hub connected to USB port on the OTG adapter .. no issues. Actually not exactly true, but ...
Not only no issues seeing the cards, but both show up at the same time.
Without the powered hub, I got none!

CF card comes up as UsbDriveA, SD card comes up as UsbDriveB .. exactly formatted in this manner. The location of both those directories is under /storage.
RawDroid shows both USB devices under /mnt .. I think same difference, just something to note if you use multiple apps to access stuff. X-Plore as with File Manager under /storage.

The issue I had.
D800E raw files **directly from camera** don't show up on the CF card in the above powered USB hub setup! No idea why, other than some anomaly in the way the D800 formats the CF card. Could be similar with D810, don't have one to test.
SD card no issue tho.

I navigate to /storage/UsbDriveB (SD card) I see the 101D800E folder, and files.
do same with the UsbDriveA(CF card) and nothing, even tho I know there are two NEFs in there.

Format the CF card on the PC(Fat32) then load an NEF file off the PC, and it shows with no problem on Android.

***** Damned! .. made a liar out of me!
I just re tested again as typing, and now with the CF formated again the D800E, and a shot taken, it now works on the tablet too .. ahhhhh!

I'm assuming flaky driver/file/device support plus some strange formatting maybe.

CF card straight out of D300 onto SD card showed up no problem.

Anyhow, from this I think I can say with 100%(surety) that the issue is a power one.
I believe that with a powered OTG adapter ... *** note that it's not set to charge mode!!!*** ... as it supplies the USB devices with a small amount of power, they don't then rely on the Host device(ie,. the tablet or phone!) for power, which may be hard for the phoen to back charge(ie. supply enough power) back via the mUSB connector.

Looking further into it, I found that my S8+ can charge devices (has a mode for it) via it's cable to say another device. eg. if a friend had low power and need a small boost, with my cable(plus the adapter to suit their device) .. I can charge it.

@ David : re the SSD, I'm assuming a 2.5" type drive?
Yes .. they do consume more power, especially the older gen models.
Again, I'd say either a powered USB hub, or powered OTG cable will sort that out.

The SSD type device I was thinking for 'ya(or anyone else reading along) .. M.2 type 'gumstick' drive + cheapie enclosure ($80-100 all up) .. it'd possibly use 0.5 - 1w of power at the meagre 19MB/s transfer speed that USB is capable of.
Faster transfer = more power requirement.

Summary: powered USB hub is a PITA, with cables and stuff everywhere. Works, works well(except the anomaly with the first try with the D800Es CF card).
I'd say even a 1amp powered OTG will be OK. Not entirely sure if it'd power up both a card reader with two cards AND a 2.5" SSD .. but only testing will prove/disprove that idea.

[davidd]

Hi Arthur, gee you're putting in a lot of effort here!

One question I have, how does the powered OTG hub get it's power? does it need to be connected to a power point?

[davidd]

Another more serious problem has cropped up. The whole process appears to corrupt the Raw files.
I hadn't tried actually viewing the files in the PC after sending them through the whole process, but this is the result. All photos appear to be affected.
When I download the same photo direct from the card reader to my PC it's fine.
What now? :confused013

141172

[arthurking83]

Hi Arthur, gee you're putting in a lot of effort here!

One question I have, how does the powered OTG hub get it's power? does it need to be connected to a power point?

No worries on the effort .. happy to help .. learn something, and just in case I need it at some point in the future too.

.. so all good.

Power to the USB OTG can be via any USB plugpack.
That is, you're current charger(s) for phone/tablet/etc .. there's usually a microUSB lead that will have the 'power' symbol (a lightning bolt).

If you're not close to a power point for your normal charger, then a battery bank would do the trick.

As said in my last reply too .. some newer devices with USB-C type ports may have the ability to output power via their connection port.
On my S8+, there's a setting that pops up, or I have to try to dig it out of some hard to find setting.
So I could use my S8+ as a battery bank.

I had a good look about for a battery bank/USB hub/OTG adapter and only found one device worth a look in(and even then, not applicable in many situations).
Device is the Zendure X6, but it needs a USB-C connector in, so for the USB hub to work, could be tricky (eg. on our tablets).

So, for the power in, you'd use either one of your current chargers to the device, or a battery bank.
If you want truly mobile and a battery bank setup, I'd suggest to avoid the cheap ready to go battery banks. 99.999% of them use really cheap nasty batteries, many instances soldered in.
Not only are the amp/hour claims stupidly overstated, the batteries themselves can pose a fire risk under charge.
You can get nice neat battery bank enclosures, where you insert your own 18650 type LiIon cells, and you get decent quality 18650 cells .. say 2600-3000mAh quality and good to go.

I've been looking into a battery bank setup myself, but when I had my old LG phone. It's battery had swelled and needing replacement. cheapest decent battery I could find as in the $30 range, and a battery bank was going to cost me just under that for some of the bits I'd found.
Lots of trustworthy U-tubers out there with the lowdown on how bad most of those ready made cheapie powerbanks .. and it's mainly the sub par battery components that cause the issue.
the DIY method is usually cheaper and a lot more secure in the quality of the bits you've acquired.

[davidd]

Hi, further to the file corruption problem, it seems to happen if I use the Gallery app in the tablet to view the files. It seems I had better not try viewing them, just store them.

Update: The Photos app (by Google) appears not to damage the files.

AS far as the powered OTG, I would not really need a battery power system, I am sure I can do the backups when power is at hand, using my phone/tablet charger.

[arthurking83]

....

AS far as the powered OTG, I would not really need a battery power system, I am sure I can do the backups when power is at hand, using my phone/tablet charger.

That would be the ideal.

But I'm also thinking of it from an alternative point of view.
eg. my holidays consist of a few days driving around the country(usually as far I can get too). Sometimes camping, sometimes just a quick couple hour snooze .. depends.
Mains is not a luxury in those situations.
I've fitted multiple USB charge points around the car, all 2+ Amp points for this(and other reasons) ... so my recommendations are more broadly based(I guess).

Always good to know of the various options.

Also don't forget that if you're holidaying overseas to have mains chargers that operate on those overseas voltages.
Soem years back, when brother went on his first O/S holiday .. he planned for almost all situations(including the battery bank thingie, which cost a small fortune compared to todays prices!) .. he didn't have UK and Euro plugs for his devices.
No problem, he went into the first $2 type shop and bought a couple.

But, I think having that ability to use your 250G SSD for storage would be the most ideal solution, and having the SD card reader, plus a few USB thumbdrives as emergency/secondary backup locations wouldn't be impractical.

To completely remove the possibility of any other corruption issues, when you do transfer, obviously use 'copy/paste' type transfers, not 'move' .. that is, leave files on memory card till you're sure they're OK.
And try using any raw file viewer app available for Android.
Haven't tried many, but I've found that RawDroid had always worked well for me. Always gave quick rendering thumbnails, so you could quickly see that files were OK-ish, and I'd open some files randomly to be sure .. to be sure :D

Back when I used to use the system to do backups on the D300, when on the road, I used to have a 64G mSD card on the tablet for storage and if that ever filled too close to the brim(always leave a couple of Gigs) .. I'd also have access to various thumbdrives.
I think I only ever used one 8G thumbdrive once .. in the couple of years I settled on that backup routine.

That would have been approx 2009-2012(maybe 2013 .. can't say exactly) .. 2013 I got my D800E, and never used the backup routine. Had 2 x 32g cards .. bu then they were better value for money in size vs speed terms.
In the D300 days, 16g would have sufficed(except that one time when I was out for 5 days or so) .. and it was single card only .. etc.
With the D800E the twin cards I think gave me a sense of peace of mind .. whether that was a false one or not ... can't say.
But from about that time, I've had less and less time to get out and do it too.

[davidd]

Hi Arthur

One more little quirk I have discovered! ;)

The X-plore app is unable to see the 128Gb USB stick. It quite happily shows an 8Gb stick!

However, all is not lost, the Myfiles app that came with the tablet CAN read the 128Gb stick.
But it is unable to see either card in the card reader. :confused013

Any ideas?

It seems I will need to use both apps to carry out the entire plan (backups in tablet and USB stick). Not a deal breaker.

[arthurking83]

Weird.
Can't test for that, as my largest (removable)storage device is 64Gb. I had it managing files onto and off that mSD ard no worries.
Only possible thing I can think of .. maybe a paid for limitation?(just a guess, can't find

I had similar issues with the Files app built into my TabII .. had issues with the USB connected reader(odd stuff).

Other file manager apps to try are FileManager+ and Total Commander.

[davidd]

Well, made another discovery.

If the SD card is formatted in my PC, it can be read by the tablet. However, if it is formatted in the camera (which it will have to be), then the tablet is not able to read it.

BUT the Tablet can read the CF card that has been formatted in camera!

Also, my Samsung phone can read CF and SD cards that have been formatted in camera.

The phone is running Android 8, the tablet is Android 9.

Any more ideas? :confused013

[davidd]

Well, some more to report, I think we have a kind of success! :)

I formatted the SD card in the PC, then placed it in the camera, and without formatting in camera, took some shots.
It seemed to work OK, without in-camera format

Now I have the following method, using the two apps, X-plore and MyFiles

For CF card, format in camera, and access with the tablet using the X-plore app. MyFiles cant see it. Save files to internal SD card.

For SD card, format in PC, and then access with the tablet using the MyFiles app. X-plore cannot see it. Save files to internal SD card.

To transfer from the internal SD card to the USB stick second backup, use Myfiles, X-plore cannot see it.

As long as I can remember all that, I should be OK. ;)

I'm waiting for the arrival of a powered OTG cable, to see if I can access the 250Gb SSD drive.

[davidd]

The powered OTG cable arrived today, so I tried it out in great excitement!

As soon as I connected it all up and switched on the USB charger that the device was plugged into, the light on the SSD drive came on, green, and I was hopeful.
Unfortunately the tablet was unable to see the drive at all, with either app. I tried plugging a USB stick in, and the tablet could see that, so the cable is OK.

Looks like the original plan (128Gb USB stick) will be the one!

[arthurking83]

My newly purchased USB stick CF card reader arrived today too.
Read some folks had success with these types of card readers .. but not this one.
TabII says high powered USB device connected, won't allow access.
So these CF card readers will also be hit and miss on older gen devices ... ie. non USB3/USB-C type connected devices.
Works perfectly on the phone and newer Lenovo tablet .. so all good on that front(ie. going forward)



The powered OTG cable arrived today, so I tried it out in great excitement!

As soon as I connected it all up and switched on the USB charger that the device was plugged into, the light on the SSD drive came on, green, and I was hopeful.
Unfortunately the tablet was unable to see the drive at all, with either app. I tried plugging a USB stick in, and the tablet could see that, so the cable is OK.

Looks like the original plan (128Gb USB stick) will be the one!

I'm thinking, if the 256G SSD was used for PC duties .. maybe it's formatted in NTFS?? :confused013
Try using either exFat, or Fat32 formatting and try again on Android.

Can't remember, but I think Android doesn't recognise NTFS(natively .. but may with additional drivers/apps)
Android historically used ext3/ext4, and Fat32, but I think also recognises exFat on some of the later versions.
Fat32 up to 32G works fine, but can be flaky(not guaranteed) on any OS... could be device dependent.
So, for more positivity/surety, I'd say if you reformat a large(ie larger than 32G device) exFat would be the way to go .. ie. Android and PC(Windows) shouldn't get confused.

[davidd]

Hi Arthur, it was a good thought, but when I checked the formatting, it is formatted as exFAT. I re-formatted it and tried again, but the tablet does not even acknowledge that something has been plugged in, it cannot see the drive at all.
The 128Gb USB stick that I have is formatted exFAT, and the tablet sees it with no problems, so the formatting is not the problem.

[arthurking83]

Hi Arthur, it was a good thought, but when I checked the formatting, it is formatted as exFAT. I re-formatted it and tried again, but the tablet does not even acknowledge that something has been plugged in, it cannot see the drive at all.
The 128Gb USB stick that I have is formatted exFAT, and the tablet sees it with no problems, so the formatting is not the problem.

:th3:

Not sure what's going on then.

Another thing too.
I have a USB powermeter device, and never thought to use it to check power usage(s).

Quick test on my new thumbstick CF reader shows that it barely draws 100mA(which makes it a medium power USB device) .. not high power as Android says when I connect it.
In read mode, I reckon I've seen max 70mA, and in write mode it varies between about 70mA and about 110mA, sometimes a quick spike to about 140mA.
So averaging out in write mode at about 100mA or so.
At idle it only sits at 10mA(min resolution, so probably less than that.

Hence .. have no idea why early Android with microUSB can't detect the device properly!
100mA is not a lot of power draw.

While the flexibility of Android is great for the kinds of uses we're describing here .. and at least you've found one resolution to your need .. it's still annoying that it's so hit and miss.

[davidd]

Well, travelling over for a while, so I thought I would report on how the ideas worked out.

After a few days I tried to back up the photos from my CF card, as discussed above. I was dismayed to see that most of the photos that had been copied to the tablet from the CF card seemed to be corrupted, with bands of colour running across them. The video files that I copies from the SD card seemed fine. I decided that somehow the tablet was not copying the 14 bit NEF files correctly, and that my idea was not going to work. Twice during the trip I was able to have access to a PC, and I just copied files directly from the CF card to the USB stick drive, so that I had at least one backup copy. I was not able to check to see if they were OK.

When I got back home I was very keen to copy the photos off the 2 32GB CF cards into my computer. I was horrified to see that all the photos coming off the cards were corrupted too.

141816

It seemed that ALL the photos on the CF cards were affected, making me think that perhaps the camera sensor had failed or something. :eek:

Then on the spur of the moment I tried my old USB2 Sandisk CF card reader, and the photos were fine! I copied them all over to the computer , a bit slow, but reliable.
It seems my brand new USB3 Verbatim Multi card reader is faulty.
Anyway, I have all my photos, which was the object of the exercise in the first place. It seems the tablet idea was OK after all, just the card reader faulty.

[ameerat42]

Find the closest bin and...:rolleyes:

[arthurking83]

.....
It seems my brand new USB3 Verbatim Multi card reader is faulty.
.....

Disappointing!
But at least you still have all your files intact.
Out of curiosity too, did you connect the card reader to a USB3 port(or USB2 port)?
I assume it was a USB3 port(on the PC).
If so, maybe try test with some random files on a CF card but this time using USB2.

I once had an issue with a new USB3 device(docking station for a HDD), kept stalling at some point during transferring data(1Tb+)
Didn't realise it at the time, but where it stalled it also corrupted some files, so I lost a few(maybe 20 or so) NEF files.(turns out they weren't important, and would have been deleted anyhow).

eventually found out why it all happened .. docking station ended up "hacked to tiny bits" for the purposes of greater knowledge of microelectronics :D .. and a new docking station was bought(that works flawlessly).

So my thinking is: if you do try the USB2 test with the reader and it does work properly, then the card reader is junk(as in should be junked!) .. it's almost certain that it uses the same JMicron chip my docking station used, and no amount of firmware updating will make it work.