Editing Reflections In Car Panels - How?

[Snooks]

It would be interesting to know how you guys handle editing images of cars and the reflections that often show up in the panels. Sometimes the reflections can add to the image but on most occasions, I find that it presents simply as a distraction.

137852

This snippet shows exactly what I mean. The image has not as yet been edited (RAW) but i have no real idea on a starting point.

Some advice would be most welcome, especially from the Auto Experts that dabble with this issue constantly :)

[Tannin]

I think you would find it extremely difficult to deal with that sort of thing in post, Snooks. Nigh-on impossible.

I'm no car photographer but I can think of two things you could do,

(1) Use a CPL (circular polarising filter). I've never used one on a car, but they work well to cut reflections on water so I don't see why that would not work.

(2) Don't wash the damn car!

[Snooks]

I think you would find it extremely difficult to deal with that sort of thing in post, Snooks. Nigh-on impossible.

I'm no car photographer but I can think of two things you could do,

(1) Use a CPL (circular polarising filter). I've never used one on a car, but they work well to cut reflections on water so I don't see why that would not work.

(2) Don't wash the damn car!

RAFLMAO :)

Sadly, most entrants do tend to wash the cars before entering them into the show. I will mention that being dirty would assist me, but I don't think i will get much support.

Seriously though..... I agree with the CPL and had one on but not sure how much I had it active in that photograph. I think i was more focused on the roof and rear of the car rather than even seeing the images in the side panels.

I agree it's hard to resolve, hopefully someone has a magic wand they can lend me :)

Thanks for the input :)

[Glenda]

I wouldn't know where to start on this as the reflection basically covers the whole side of the car. I have tried a CPL to get rid of reflections in other than water and haven't found it 100% effective - haven't tried it at a car show though. On the very few occasions I have photographed cars I know I just tried to concentrate on one area of the vehicle eg logo, inside, grill etc. Forgotten how many shots I've deleted which contained me photographing it reflected in the paintwork or chrome.

[John King]

Snooks, book by Hunter, Biver, Fuqua et.al. "Light Science and Magic" is both cheap and excellent. Among other things, it goes into great lengths about how to avoid unwanted reflections.

Sometimes just changing your angle slightly can dramatically change the reflections, or even eliminate most or all of them.

Personally, most of the time I don't mind reflections. Sometimes they are irritating, so I change position.

[ameerat42]

Try air-brushing it out. GIMP has that tool.
A bit of mucken aroun', but...

[Tannin]

hopefully someone has a magic wand they can lend me

Stand in line, Sunny Jim, stand in line! :)

[Snooks]

LOL at the comments :)

I will check out that book John, thanks.

Hi AM, problem doing that is not so much the time involved but you always lose some aspect, some shadow that is needed. But it appears that this may be the only option :( Well....except not even attempting it.

The major issue is not the reflection but the fact I did not see the reflection when taking the photos. I should have expected them :(

They may go into the too hard folder, a shame, because except for that it had good potential.

[ameerat42]

How about a bit of judicious cloning? :D...
137853

- That's in the not-so-hard-basket :D

[Snooks]

How about a bit of judicious cloning? :D...
137853

- That's in the not-so-hard-basket :D

I haven't really tried anything on that actual image as yet AM. I didn't wish to waste too much time on it before getting advice, just in case anyone knew a faster and superior way of gaining a good result. :) The little bit I did try was rubbish :(

There's two "Car Specialists" on here and I will pm them and ask them for an opinion if they don't happen to wander into the thread tonight :) I'm sure they encounter this issue very often.

[bobt]

I hate to say this, but this is a case of "prevention is better than cure". Problems like this are best avoided by anticipating them in the first place and not getting that reflection in the shot. Some problems can be cloned, but this one really isn't going to end well i don't think. It's one of the key principles we all forget at times, which is to check backgrounds and unwanted elements before pressing the shutter.

[Geoff79]

Good tips so far about future prevention, but I have to agree with Bob. Trying to “fix” this shot I cannot see being worthwhile. That reflection is almost 1/3 of the photo.

If anything I’d probably make this photo more about the reflection than anything else, personally, if I was to persist with it. ;)

Anyway, Snooks, good luck with your dilemma.

[farmmax]

If you are desperate to do something about the reflections, you can try to tone them down a little with the airbrush tool.

Create a transparent layer above the car photo, and paint on that layer.

Set your brush to very soft, and an opacity of about 50%.

Use the colour picker to pick the colours from the car. the brush strokes should run in parallel lines along the car, lightly over the area with reflections. I work with a pressure sensitive pen instead of a mouse, and it is easier to do a better job with the pen. Each line should have the colour picked from where each brushstroke will begin. This mean every line will be very slightly different in colour. Each line should overlap the last line a little. This is to make them blend in well, but add a sense of the shapes and shadows of the cars surface.

After the reflection has been painted over, lower the opacity of the layer you painted on to find a balance between how much reflection and car details show through the painted layer. It will look more realistic if you do this, because the contours of the car body showing through will make it look better.

Much better, to do everything not to get the reflections there in the first place. I know how difficult this is for car photographers, even under very controlled conditions.

[Snooks]

Thanks for the detailed advice Farmax :)

I agree totally, prevention is better than cure.

I really do not wish to spend that much time and effort on it.

Cheers :)

[Dan05]

You can clone it out but it gets noticeable in large areas. But there is a way in photoshop to snip a part of the car that has the same tones and paint it over the areas in question. It is time consuming, a pain and isn’t easy. I have trouble with it.
But it gives the best results.

Bottom line, what I do is look for reflections before hitting the button. I have given up very nice angles and what seems a perfect vantage point because it would be too much work post shot.

I’m happy to help with what I can and have offered to bring my MacBook and show you. Let me know mate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[tandeejay]

While CPL's are great for removing reflections, I suspect you might have problems in this situation due to the curvature of the car. The polarized light reflected from the curved surface is not all going to be polarized in the same direction, so you may find the CPL only partially removes the reflection. Isn't the angle of polarization related to the angle of the surface the light is reflecting from? I'd be interested to see just how much curvature can be in a surface before a CPL starts to fail to remove all the reflection.

Cheers,
John

[Snooks]

You can clone it out but it gets noticeable in large areas. But there is a way in photoshop to snip a part of the car that has the same tones and paint it over the areas in question. It is time consuming, a pain and isn’t easy. I have trouble with it.
But it gives the best results.

Bottom line, what I do is look for reflections before hitting the button. I have given up very nice angles and what seems a perfect vantage point because it would be too much work post shot.

I’m happy to help with what I can and have offered to bring my MacBook and show you. Let me know mate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Hi Dan,

Thanks heaps for the offer mate and I will certainly take you up on it one day very soon. :)

I would however rather put the time into an image that I take that doesn't require that much work. I need to learn how to asses, compose and then take the images better, that way the post editing is very much reduced.

I appreciate the offer :)

[tandeejay]

another option, see if you can get there and gain access before all the crowds arrive :D Then you can get your photos without random people getting in the way

[Mark L]

I think the original photo you have presented with the reflections looks okay here. Without the reflections this photo has no point of interest? ;)

[Snooks]

I think the original photo you have presented with the reflections looks okay here. Without the reflections this photo has no point of interest? ;)

Interesting and I had never even thought of that (lol).

Having seen the amount of reflections, when I looked at starting the editing they just jumped out, I instantly thought that they would be an issue and hence wondered at how to negate them. I didn't wish to spend ages erasing or fixing them.

I only uploaded a screenshot of the reflections, not the whole image. The whole image is as shown here:

137878

My initial thoughts were to "cut out" the car and change the whole background.

What is interesting is that I never thought of what you did, I overlooked it immediately. I do believe there is still better photos to invest my efforts into, , but thank you for the comments Mark. :)

[Ross M]

Welcome to the world of photographing large, curvy, mirrors, Snooks! As a sporting analogy, I don't play golf, but I'm told that it is very frustrating and yet people keep going back for more. The curves on the ends of body panels catch reflections that are not very noticable in the viewfinder when a lot is going on in real time. Plus, there may be lots of chrome.

The other posters have covered the options I think, but here are my thoughts.

Distractions in the background against the shy are easier to clone out than distractions next to the body and reflections are the hardest of all. You can use a narrow depth of filed to minimise the background distraction and help post processing but this will not help with reflections. As you have discovered, A CPL filter does not make a noticeable difference, although they are handy to minimise reflections in glass.

For the benefit of other members, I was present at this car show too and Snooks had a relatively short stay, based on the need to get to another location before losing the light. Early and late are the best times when the crowds are at a minimum, but the downside is some car owners will leave early. So unfortunately time and patience is the key. Also handy are sunblock, water, food and in my case, some stretching exercises before going. I specifically went to this show to take advantage of the late afternoon light and then later, soft dusk light.

Now that you know about the impact of reflections, aim to walk around the car and look through the viewfinder at as many angles as practicable. You will have to compromise on composition, incident light, backgrounds and reflections. After that, you will have to wait even longer while the onlookers move on. They will not realise you are waiting for them if they are in the background or at the side and reflected in the body panels. If I spot the "must have" car and I have the time, I will try to return to the same car several times to see if the surroundings situation has improved. I keep scanning the area to try to catch opportunities, subject to the size of the show. With practice, you will be able to spot some potential reflections before looking through the viewfinder, by looking around the area of the chosen car. Reflections are less noticeable on the sunny side of the car than the shaded side. I sometimes use a flash to light up the shaded side, but this doesn't suit every shot, requires some practice to get it right, and complicates colour temperature matching..

It is painfully hard on one's knees and back, but I like to get down extremely low so that more of the sky is reflected rather than the surroundings. I will admit that my tilt screen helps in these situations, as I don't have to actually lie on the ground, which is not practical at a show. Light poles will still show up, though. Of course, this results in extreme angles that may not be your intention or preference. I am aware that you don't personally like my extreme high angles, or "Dutch angle", for instance, which I use to control surroundings and reflections. Sometime you just want to capture the main features of the car from car waistline height or a little higher.

In post, one trick I use is only possible in a small number of photos. If another car is reflected and it's colour is not present in the subject car, I reduce the saturation of the reflected car's colour. This can even be done globally, rather than locally, by brush or mask if the photo suits. I may also locally reduce contrast of the reflection with a brush. I also de-saturate chromework and this will reduce distractions in a limited way. These steps are an alternative to cloning and brushing colour, although the techniques can be combined. Cloning and painting is tricky and time consuming to keep it realistic.

Hope this helps.

[Geoff79]

Interesting and I had never even thought of that (lol).

Having seen the amount of reflections, when I looked at starting the editing they just jumped out, I instantly thought that they would be an issue and hence wondered at how to negate them. I didn't wish to spend ages erasing or fixing them.

I only uploaded a screenshot of the reflections, not the whole image. The whole image is as shown here:

137878

My initial thoughts were to "cut out" the car and change the whole background.

What is interesting is that I never thought of what you did, I overlooked it immediately. I do believe there is still better photos to invest my efforts into, , but thank you for the comments Mark. :)

Haha, you had me fooled too. I thought your original post was your whole photo. This makes more sense.

Anyway, what a great post from Ross. Funny all these things I’d never even think about in terms of taking photos of cars. Very interesting read even as a casual observer of the genre here.

[Dan05]

Welcome to the world of photographing large, curvy, mirrors, Snooks! As a sporting analogy, I don't play golf, but I'm told that it is very frustrating and yet people keep going back for more. The curves on the ends of body panels catch reflections that are not very noticable in the viewfinder when a lot is going on in real time. Plus, there may be lots of chrome.

The other posters have covered the options I think, but here are my thoughts.

Distractions in the background against the shy are easier to clone out than distractions next to the body and reflections are the hardest of all. You can use a narrow depth of filed to minimise the background distraction and help post processing but this will not help with reflections. As you have discovered, A CPL filter does not make a noticeable difference, although they are handy to minimise reflections in glass.

For the benefit of other members, I was present at this car show too and Snooks had a relatively short stay, based on the need to get to another location before losing the light. Early and late are the best times when the crowds are at a minimum, but the downside is some car owners will leave early. So unfortunately time and patience is the key. Also handy are sunblock, water, food and in my case, some stretching exercises before going. I specifically went to this show to take advantage of the late afternoon light and then later, soft dusk light.

Now that you know about the impact of reflections, aim to walk around the car and look through the viewfinder at as many angles as practicable. You will have to compromise on composition, incident light, backgrounds and reflections. After that, you will have to wait even longer while the onlookers move on. They will not realise you are waiting for them if they are in the background or at the side and reflected in the body panels. If I spot the "must have" car and I have the time, I will try to return to the same car several times to see if the surroundings situation has improved. I keep scanning the area to try to catch opportunities, subject to the size of the show. With practice, you will be able to spot some potential reflections before looking through the viewfinder, by looking around the area of the chosen car. Reflections are less noticeable on the sunny side of the car than the shaded side. I sometimes use a flash to light up the shaded side, but this doesn't suit every shot, requires some practice to get it right, and complicates colour temperature matching..

It is painfully hard on one's knees and back, but I like to get down extremely low so that more of the sky is reflected rather than the surroundings. I will admit that my tilt screen helps in these situations, as I don't have to actually lie on the ground, which is not practical at a show. Light poles will still show up, though. Of course, this results in extreme angles that may not be your intention or preference. I am aware that you don't personally like my extreme high angles, or "Dutch angle", for instance, which I use to control surroundings and reflections. Sometime you just want to capture the main features of the car from car waistline height or a little higher.

In post, one trick I use is only possible in a small number of photos. If another car is reflected and it's colour is not present in the subject car, I reduce the saturation of the reflected car's colour. This can even be done globally, rather than locally, by brush or mask if the photo suits. I may also locally reduce contrast of the reflection with a brush. I also de-saturate chromework and this will reduce distractions in a limited way. These steps are an alternative to cloning and brushing colour, although the techniques can be combined. Cloning and painting is tricky and time consuming to keep it realistic.

Hope this helps.

I totally agree with this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Snooks]

Some great advice Ross and thank you for sharing it, there is certainly some things that I need to learn and especially about shadows and stuff. I never thought taking a great photo would be that hard but when you think about it, there are so many variables.

Sorry about misleading anyone regarding the snippet.

I didn't post the whole image because it would have had to gone into the CC Forum or the Not For CC Forum and I felt given i am after educational answers and advice, this was the most appropriate place. I posted the snippet so as to show the issues and the extent to which they are an issue. I guess i assumed you would all realize it was a screen shot rather than the full image.

Well I have gained some very helpful advice so it will certainly assist me when i next get to go and shoot some cars :)

Thanks :)

[William W]

It would be interesting to know how you guys handle editing images of cars and the reflections that often show up in the panels. . . Edit Permission: Edit ok, please provide details

As Tony (Tannin) has suggested, you’re better off not getting the reflections in the first instance. Use a Polarizing Filter and even when using a CPL, look very carefully through the viewfinder and adjust your Camera Position to get the least amount of and least dominate reflections off the mirror surfaces.


*


However the question is about fixing it in Post Production. It will be time consuming. There are a few methods the one I most prefer is Cloning, Air Brushing is another.


I used Photoshop for the quick and also indeed rough rebuild that I did on the Driver’s side rear side panel. (see below).

For this type of stuff you need to be working at about 4~10 pixels for each clone. (As mentioned, it very time consuming.)


There are two basic elements:


1. Actual Cloning – this is where you are simply replacing like, nearby pixels to cover the reflection or other infiltration.


2. Rebuilding – this is where you need to create what should be there, for example an hard edge; or other element of the structure or person (for example, if removing reflections from Eye Glasses, you might need to rebuild the Subject’s Eyeball.


Adding a bit of noise and then reducing noise by specific individual channel may assist and I did this to your image, after adding noise, I reduced the Colour Noise on the Blue Channel.


Results will vary with your patience and your skill and your experience, moreover the size of the Final Image that you require is an important factor: if you are satisfied with a smaller image, then the time involved will usually be considerably less.


Below is a sample edit or your photo. It was about ten minutes work: if I were being paid to do it, then, to get to this stage would have taken about one or two hours and would definitely have be considerably more resilient to adverse critique.


Next below it, is an example of about fourteen hours work, posted as a general example.


WW



https://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/18509646-orig.jpg


***


https://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/18497035-lg.jpg

Second Image © AJ Group Pty Ltd Aust 1996~2018 WMW 1965~1996

[ameerat42]

WW. How advanced those (presumably) Europeans are! - They got rid of their tram
lines and we (in Sydney) are just putting them back in :rolleyes:

[William W]

Welcome to the world of photographing large, curvy, mirrors, Snooks! . . . As you have discovered, A CPL filter does not make a noticeable difference, although they are handy to minimise reflections in glass.

Hello,

I disagree with the statement underlined and in bold.

A CPL Filter (or PL) can indeed make a noticeable difference reducing Reflections from a range of surfaces, including glass.

Understanding correct technique and experience using Polarizing Filters is necessary and some Lighting Scenarios are certainly more convivial than others. Camera Position and Focal Lens choice are both critical elements in maximizing the effect of the Polarizing Filter’s use.

In all other aspects of your commentary, I concur, and add that IMO it is very good advice.

WW

[Snooks]

Hi William.

Thanks for putting in the effort and doing what you did. It was interesting to see how people would look at images with that much reflection and whether they consider it viable working on it or not. Until my skills greatly improve, I don't think it is worthwhile.

I love those buildings and the edits, that is excellent work indeed.

The prime intention is always to check for odds and ends, things that distract etc, but sadly some are so damned hard to see :(

Thanks again mate :)