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Bensch

16-02-2018, 10:01pm

Hi everyone :)

Hoping to get some advice in regards to choosing a compact digital camera for travelling.

Budget isn't the best, am looking at spending between $500-$600.

Being able to shoot RAW is a must, and something with a good amount of zoom (up to 300mm or so equivalent) would be really nice.

Main use would be travel based photography, so landscapes and some animal/zoo shots.

Smaller the better for size, don't want to take my DSLRs due to size/weight, so something small would be good.

Have been looking at the Panasonic Lumix TZ90 (https://www.teds.com.au/panasonic-lumix-tz90-silver), which seems to fit the bill nicely, but was wondering if anyone has any other suggestions?

Thanks :th3:

William W

17-02-2018, 4:20pm

Nikon Coolpix B700.

WW

Gazza

17-02-2018, 4:35pm

Phone?

Maybe your current device is not up to the task, so, why not update and kill two birds with one rock? (1 less item to lug about...)
I read now that there's a few out there shooting RAW/DNG but a little on the slow side...just a thought

Cheers - :beer_mug:

Bensch

18-02-2018, 2:48pm

Nikon Coolpix B700.

WW

Thanks William :th3:

The B700 has some really nice specs, and the focal length is really good, but it is a little larger than I was hoping for.
Based on what I could find, it is around the same size as my D3100 without the battery grip.

Phone?

Maybe your current device is not up to the task, so, why not update and kill two birds with one rock? (1 less item to lug about...)
I read now that there's a few out there shooting RAW/DNG but a little on the slow side...just a thought

Cheers - :beer_mug:

Thanks Gazza :th3:

A good suggestion, in fact, I did actually use my droid when I came over to Ballarat/Mildura last year.

The picture quality was ok, but only jpg, as my phone doesn't support RAW.

I'd like a new phone, but really can't justify purchasing another one just yet, my current one was purchased around 6 months ago.

Something to keep in mind when upgrading next time. Phone that shoots RAW is a great idea, but for travels I would prefer something that doesn't need a shoe leather zoom:D :th3:

John King

18-02-2018, 3:00pm

Bensch

18-02-2018, 9:13pm

Andy, have you considered the Olympus E-PL8 with 14-42R zoom? (28-84mm effective focal length)

Available new from DigiDirect for $688.

https://www.digidirect.com.au/cameras/cscmirrorless_cameras/olympus_pen_e-pl8_mirrorless_micro_four_thirds_digital_camera_with_14-42mm_lens_brown

Probably more suitable for your uses with the 14-42 EZ pancake zoom.

Thanks John :th3:

Certainly looks interesting, will have to do some googling as I'm not too familiar with Micro 4/3rds cameras.

Looks like my previously mentioned Panasonic has got some competition :th3:

John King

19-02-2018, 10:23am

Andy, if you add the plastic fantastic 40-150R lens (mine was about $170 at Michael's), this will get you from 28-300 effective focal length at very cheap overall cost.

The image quality of the 14-42 Olympus lenses is derided by reviewers, very unfairly IMNSHO. These two kit lenses are both light and cheap. Easy to carry anywhere. Decent build and IQ, specially for the money.

e.g. 14-42 EZ pancake zoom:

https://canopuscomputing.com.au/zen2/albums/Photography/em1/E-M1_JAK_2015-_C302165_Ew.jpg
https://canopuscomputing.com.au/zen2/albums/built_environment/buildings/eureka/E-M1_JAK_2015-_C172085_JK_E-2_Ew.jpg
40-150 @ 150:

https://canopuscomputing.com.au/zen2/albums/Plants/OI004219_edited.jpeg

Bensch

20-02-2018, 11:10pm

Andy, if you add the plastic fantastic 40-150R lens (mine was about $170 at Michael's), this will get you from 28-300 effective focal length at very cheap overall cost.

The image quality of the 14-42 Olympus lenses is derided by reviewers, very unfairly IMNSHO. These two kit lenses are both light and cheap. Easy to carry anywhere. Decent build and IQ, specially for the money.

Thanks John, greatly appreciated.

Fantastic photos :th3:

Still need to do more research on micro 4/3rds cameras, but looking favourable for my purposes :th3:

John King

21-02-2018, 8:22am

Hawthy

21-02-2018, 10:13am

The Panasonic TZ90 is an upgrade to the TZ30 that I bought back in 2013 to take to Canada and Alaska. The main changes are the number of megapixels (20 vs 14) and that it can shoot RAW (a real bonus in my opinion). The sensor size is virtually unchanged meaning that the pixels are smaller on the TZ90, which is not necessarily a good thing. It also has a much greater zoom at 720mm compared to 480mm, which I found was more than adequate.

How did it go? It was certainly small and fit easily into my pocket. It was easy to use and the photos looked great on the camera but when I got back and looked at the images they were a bit disappointing with artefacts clearly visible at 100%. Also, having come from a DSLR to a travel zoom, I found having controls accessed via a screen rather than by dials difficult to get used to. Plus, you can't fit a polarising filter to it, which I think is a must for landscape photos. I had plenty of shots with blown out skies. Having access to RAW might alleviate some of these issues.

If I had my time over again, I would just take my DSLR with a kit lens, a wide angle lens and maybe a zoom up to 200mm. Sure, you look like a tourist carrying around such an obvious camera but where I went the tourists probably outnumbered the locals so I would have fit right in.

It depends why you are travelling and what you want the camera to do. If you are sightseeing and just want some nice shots to remind you of where you went the travel zoom will be fine. If the aim of your trip is to take high quality photographs you might want to take a DSLR. As an example, a night time cityscape would not turn out as well using the TZ90 as it would with a DSLR.

I rarely use the TZ30 now. I will take it if I need to take photos for work because it is simple and takes very clear photos in the daylight.

Here is an example with typically blown out skies:

dacar

21-02-2018, 7:13pm

Another consideration is the battery. Will you be able to recharge it daily? If not, buy one that takes AA batteries.

Sent from a mobile thing.

Bensch

22-02-2018, 12:21pm

Thanks for your kind comment Andy.

No one camera is perfect in every way. Pretty well all of them since about 2003 have been capable of taking exceptionally good photos. Basically any ILC with 5 MPx or more!

I have an environmental portrait printed at A2 size on our wall. You can clearly see every single hair on the subject's head. I took it with my 5 MPx E-1. Even its high ISO (3200) RAWs look far better when using PS6! Using CS2, they were a very colourful mess ...

Thanks John, still having a hard time deciding in which direction to go. (I know, I'm hopeless)

I really like the look of the Olympus and the fact that I can change lenses. Out of interest, do the Olympus lenses allow the use of a screw on filter or lens hood? Filter would be nice, but a hood would probably be important.

My two main concerns are quality and weight (with RAW being an absolute must, wouldn't consider a camera without it).

For quality, I really enjoy the effects (bokeh) produced by the DSLR, and am after something that would produce the same results for wildlife (my main focus), but also just as capable for landscape/travel photography.

Weight is a huge consideration, and the thing most likely to be the deciding factor.
Example, my Nikon D3100, Nikkor 18-105 and Sigma 70-300 have a collective weight of just over 2.2kg, then add to this say 300g for the charger, so a total of approximately 2.5kg.

This might not sound very much, but I prefer to travel (when going via air) carry on only, so am limited to a total of 7kg inclusive of clothing, toiletries, electronics, suitcase weight, etc. so weight quite quickly becomes a problem.

While I could probably get away with a carry on that is a 1kg or so over the limit (testing shows total carry on weight would be 8.9kg), with the luck that I have, if they weighed a single bag during an entire day, it would be mine...

The Olympus, 14-42 and 40-150 have a collective weight of around 655g total (from what I can find in documentation), this is a much more attractive option.

The Panasonic TZ-90 has a total weight of 322g, however, I'd happily go for the slightly heavier Olympus compared to the Panasonic depending on image quality.

I suppose at the end of the day, the question is which one of the two would give better bokeh.

This is the quality I get on my DSLR, so it would be the same that I'd want on the subsitute camera.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4755/39305096454_22ae26da1b_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/22TfTNN)_DSC6827 (https://flic.kr/p/22TfTNN) by andrewbensch (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30190087@N03/), on Flickr

The Panasonic TZ90 is an upgrade to the TZ30 that I bought back in 2013 to take to Canada and Alaska. The main changes are the number of megapixels (20 vs 14) and that it can shoot RAW (a real bonus in my opinion). The sensor size is virtually unchanged meaning that the pixels are smaller on the TZ90, which is not necessarily a good thing. It also has a much greater zoom at 720mm compared to 480mm, which I found was more than adequate.

How did it go? It was certainly small and fit easily into my pocket. It was easy to use and the photos looked great on the camera but when I got back and looked at the images they were a bit disappointing with artefacts clearly visible at 100%. Also, having come from a DSLR to a travel zoom, I found having controls accessed via a screen rather than by dials difficult to get used to. Plus, you can't fit a polarising filter to it, which I think is a must for landscape photos. I had plenty of shots with blown out skies. Having access to RAW might alleviate some of these issues.

If I had my time over again, I would just take my DSLR with a kit lens, a wide angle lens and maybe a zoom up to 200mm. Sure, you look like a tourist carrying around such an obvious camera but where I went the tourists probably outnumbered the locals so I would have fit right in.

It depends why you are travelling and what you want the camera to do. If you are sightseeing and just want some nice shots to remind you of where you went the travel zoom will be fine. If the aim of your trip is to take high quality photographs you might want to take a DSLR. As an example, a night time cityscape would not turn out as well using the TZ90 as it would with a DSLR.

I rarely use the TZ30 now. I will take it if I need to take photos for work because it is simple and takes very clear photos in the daylight.

Here is an example with typically blown out skies:

Thanks Andrew, great information, and a lot to think about :th3:

As mentioned above, weight is a significant issue.

Not too worried about looking like a tourist (I stand out enough as it is) and would happily take my DSLR, but more concerned about kit weight (2.5kg for DSLR as above, vs 400-600g for smaller cameras).

Thanks for the great info on the TZ230, all important factors to keep in mind.

RAW is a must, it does help fix those sky blowouts, but like anything, can only do so much.

I'm not the world's best photographer by any means, but my aim is to be able to take high quality holiday photos, with added pictures like above.

But I suppose that like with everything, it is a trade off between quality and weight, etc.

Out of interest, what is the equipment pictured in your photo? Looks interesting :th3:

Another consideration is the battery. Will you be able to recharge it daily? If not, buy one that takes AA batteries.

Sent from a mobile thing.

Thanks dacar, something that I hadn't thought about.

The majority of my travel would be confined to hotel, airbnb, etc. so charging normally wouldn't be an issue.

However, another thing to take into consideration is the weight/size of the charger required. Some/most travel cameras allow charging via USB, so I'd be able to use my multiport USB charger and charge along with phone, kindle, etc. where as others generally need a dedicated charger.

Thanks for your help everyone, greatly appreciated :th3:

Still have around 2 weeks before I'm looking at purchasing (but could always extend it neeed), so hopefully I've made my mind up by then :lol:

Hawthy

22-02-2018, 6:25pm

Out of interest, what is the equipment pictured in your photo? Looks interesting :th3:

That, my friend, is a rail snowblower at Skagway, Alaska. It allowed trains to use the Yukon Pass during winter. It is a bit of a running joke in the Where, What, Who section of AP because it turns up regularly. I used that photo to generate a response from Ameerat but sadly...(crickets chirping).

ameerat42

22-02-2018, 6:42pm

You debbil, you, Hawthy!:devil6: I didn't look into this thread before,
as I had nothing to offer on the topic. Howevva, now that it's changed to snow[movers]...

Yes, I've seen this very engine, too. Nice town, that. Did you take the free historical walk, or take
the White Pass Special? - Two bob says you can't guess which I did:D

Now back On Topic... - I agree with your point of forgetting all about a compact camera for travel,
unless all you want is travel snaps.

Bensch

22-02-2018, 11:32pm

That, my friend, is a rail snowblower at Skagway, Alaska. It allowed trains to use the Yukon Pass during winter. It is a bit of a running joke in the Where, What, Who section of AP because it turns up regularly. I used that photo to generate a response from Ameerat but sadly...(crickets chirping).

Nice, thanks for the info Andrew :th3:

You debbil, you, Hawthy!:devil6: I didn't look into this thread before,
as I had nothing to offer on the topic. Howevva, now that it's changed to snow[movers]...

Yes, I've seen this very engine, too. Nice town, that. Did you take the free historical walk, or take
the White Pass Special? - Two bob says you can't guess which I did:D

Now back On Topic... - I agree with your point of forgetting all about a compact camera for travel,
unless all you want is travel snaps.

Thanks Am, yep that is the track I was starting to head down.

Looks like 4/3rds it is :th3:

Hawthy

23-02-2018, 8:34am

John King

23-02-2018, 8:57am

Bensch

23-02-2018, 10:50am

Andy, my E-M1 MkI, 14-42 EZ pancake zoom, 40-150 plastic fantastic, spare battery, and clip on flash in its Thinktank Mirrorless Mover 10 bag (about 150x150x125) weighs 1227.7 grams (very accurate scales ... ). The E-M1 MkI body is relatively heavy for mFTs, around 550 grams.

IQ is much the same as the image you posted, maybe a bit sharper. Certainly not perceptibly worse.

Fantastic, thank you John, greatly appreciated :th3:

Looks like there is an Olympus coming my way in the next few weeks :D:nod:

Looking at ordering around the 15th of next month, so hopefully they have the black version still in stock :th3:

John King

23-02-2018, 4:38pm

Bensch

23-02-2018, 5:48pm

Hope that it suits you, mate.

Do keep in mind that the menus and operation will be completely different from what you are used to. It will have a learning/acclimatization curve attached!

mFTs lenses are generally at their best between wide open and no smaller than f/8. There are exceptions to this, but not with any of the kit lenses. Of course you can use smaller apertures, but diffraction will almost certainly be noticeable. If for happy snaps, no problem. If for an A2 size print, different matter.

All the best with it. Keep us posted.Thanks John :th3:

The technical side sometimes gets me, but based on your info, essentially would I be correct in thinking that the kit lenses would be sharpest between say f/4 and f/8, and starts to get noticeably softer between f/8 and f/16?

If so, I don't think it would be a deal breaker for me, normally shoot wildlife around f/7.1-f/8. Might just mean shooting with a lower f stop number or focus stacking for landscapes?

The majority of my photos are Facebook, forums, etc with the occasional 6x4 print or very rarely a 16x12 canvas.

Thanks again :th3:

Sent from my A1601 using Tapatalk

feathers

23-02-2018, 6:18pm

The sony cyber shot 100 mark one should be in that price range by now? Has a 1" sensor can shoot raw.
Has a zeiss lens. Very compact. I have the mark 4 version and very happy with the pics. Cheers.

John King

23-02-2018, 7:27pm

Thanks John :th3:

You're welcome, Andy.

The technical side sometimes gets me, but based on your info, essentially would I be correct in thinking that the kit lenses would be sharpest between say f/4 and f/8, and starts to get noticeably softer between f/8 and f/16?

You will only really notice diffraction softening at f/16 and smaller unless you examine everything at 100% ... Some people cannot help themselves, and become inveterate pixel peepers ... :nod: :lol2:.
Me, for instance ...

If so, I don't think it would be a deal breaker for me, normally shoot wildlife around f/7.1-f/8. Might just mean shooting with a lower f stop number or focus stacking for landscapes?

The majority of my photos are Facebook, forums, etc with the occasional 6x4 print or very rarely a 16x12 canvas.

Canvas hides a multitude of sins ... :D. The sort of diffraction softening I mentioned would be noticeable in a finely detailed 17x22 inch print, but not in other scenes, even at that size.

Thanks again :th3:

No worries. Get in touch when it out-halfwits you!! I sometimes think that the bloody things are smarter than I am :nod: :eek:.

Glenda

24-02-2018, 6:56am

Like Hawthy I too have used the pre raw version of the compact Panasonic and took it to India with us a few years ago. Also like Andrew I was underwhelmed with its results in a lot of cases. I ended up handing it to our guide who took happy snaps of Gordon and I as we wandered about various sites. I tended to stick to my dslr. Maybe the addition of being able to shoot raw would be an advantage.

I recently bought an Olympus E-M10 mark II with the 14-42 kit lens. I bought it mainly to have a small light weight camera for street photography when travelling - far less intrusive than the dslr. I've been impressed with the quality of the photos to date although still getting used to it and with our recent heat wave, followed by quite a bit of rain haven't had much of a chance to use it lately.

You haven't said where you are travelling to, but, on most of our trips I've found I don't really need such a super zoom. In Myanmar last year the 24-70 just about lived on my D750 and occasionally I wanted wider so went to the 20mm prime. I did take longer lenses but they lived in my camera bag the whole trip. The 40-150 lens John mentioned would probably give you more than you need zoom wise in most instances.

Whatever you choose I'd get it and do some practice with it before your trip. Going from a Nikon to the Olympus I've found a few things feel back the front and I'm still learning where to go to change various settings when out shooting.

Nick Cliff

24-02-2018, 7:20am

Andy the EPL8 I think can use the Olympus EVF4 electronic viewer which is superb if you like to manually focus at times.The other thing is that Panasonic have some superb lenses zoom and prime that are compatible with this camera. I imagine with this camera when you are travelling it may not be that difficult to buy a particular lens focal length while travelling of course.
The Olympus pro level zoom and macro lenses should work on this camera if you want really consistently superb image quality. I use many legacy primes with the micro 4/3rds system with lens adapters to reduce weight when travelling.

cheers Nick

Glenda

24-02-2018, 7:32am

One other thing I forgot to mention Andy is that the latest lightroom app which is free, comes with its own camera which shoots in dng format and allows you to use the normal lightroom sliders to process it. Using pro mode you can also change ISO, shutter etc before taking the shot. If you have Lr it also syncs the images to your desktop as well. I've only recently put it on my phone and the only downside is I need my reading glasses to see and change settings when out.

Bensch

24-02-2018, 9:05am

The sony cyber shot 100 mark one should be in that price range by now? Has a 1" sensor can shoot raw.
Has a zeiss lens. Very compact. I have the mark 4 version and very happy with the pics. Cheers.

I did take a look at the Sony Cyber Shot, but the lack of focal lenght was a bit of an issue. Great camera otherwise :th3:

Thanks for the suggestion :th3:

You're welcome, Andy.

You will only really notice diffraction softening at f/16 and smaller unless you examine everything at 100% ... Some people cannot help themselves, and become inveterate pixel peepers ... :nod: :lol2:.
Me, for instance ...

Canvas hides a multitude of sins ... :D. The sort of diffraction softening I mentioned would be noticeable in a finely detailed 17x22 inch print, but not in other scenes, even at that size.

No worries. Get in touch when it out-halfwits you!! I sometimes think that the bloody things are smarter than I am :nod: :eek:.

Thanks John, greatly appreciated, and will do :th3:

Like Hawthy I too have used the pre raw version of the compact Panasonic and took it to India with us a few years ago. Also like Andrew I was underwhelmed with its results in a lot of cases. I ended up handing it to our guide who took happy snaps of Gordon and I as we wandered about various sites. I tended to stick to my dslr. Maybe the addition of being able to shoot raw would be an advantage.

I recently bought an Olympus E-M10 mark II with the 14-42 kit lens. I bought it mainly to have a small light weight camera for street photography when travelling - far less intrusive than the dslr. I've been impressed with the quality of the photos to date although still getting used to it and with our recent heat wave, followed by quite a bit of rain haven't had much of a chance to use it lately.

You haven't said where you are travelling to, but, on most of our trips I've found I don't really need such a super zoom. In Myanmar last year the 24-70 just about lived on my D750 and occasionally I wanted wider so went to the 20mm prime. I did take longer lenses but they lived in my camera bag the whole trip. The 40-150 lens John mentioned would probably give you more than you need zoom wise in most instances.

Whatever you choose I'd get it and do some practice with it before your trip. Going from a Nikon to the Olympus I've found a few things feel back the front and I'm still learning where to go to change various settings when out shooting.

Thanks Glenda, greatly appreciated :th3:

Am mainly into wildlife photography, so looking to visit zoos, wildlife sanctuaries, etc. while travelling.
As a rule, I normally carry my 70-300mm for my DSLR (unless I know that I need my birding lens), so I think with the 40-150mm being 35mm equivalent to a 300mm, I think it will fit the bill nicely. I did notice, however, that there is also a 300mm (600mm equivalent) available for around $500, might have to add that to my purchase list for later on in the year.

I really enjoy shooting with my DSLR but wanted something to take while travelling that wasn't so heavy, but at the same time, didn't sacrifice on comparable image quality.

Will be travelling to Melbourne on June 18-23, and then (no set dates, depends on work and finances, so will probably be spaced out over a couple of years) also want to do Kangaroo Island (travel by car, so can take DSLR gear), Sydney, Brisbane, Perth, NZ and then set my sights on Europe. So as with DSLR, something that is modular and can be upgraded is ideal (body can be upgraded without having to purchase all new lenses, etc.).

Am aiming to order the Olympus by the 15th of next month, so will give me a little time to play before travel in June.

- - - Updated - - -

Andy the EPL8 I think can use the Olympus EVF4 electronic viewer which is superb if you like to manually focus at times.The other thing is that Panasonic have some superb lenses zoom and prime that are compatible with this camera. I imagine with this camera when you are travelling it may not be that difficult to buy a particular lens focal length while travelling of course.
The Olympus pro level zoom and macro lenses should work on this camera if you want really consistently superb image quality. I use many legacy primes with the micro 4/3rds system with lens adapters to reduce weight when travelling.

cheers Nick

Fantastic, thanks Nick :th3:

Did a little googling, and the PL8 is compatable with the EVF4 viewfinder :th3: will certainly be adding it to my list of purchases for a little later.

Great info on the Panasonic lenses, will definitely keep that one in mind :th3:

One other thing I forgot to mention Andy is that the latest lightroom app which is free, comes with its own camera which shoots in dng format and allows you to use the normal lightroom sliders to process it. Using pro mode you can also change ISO, shutter etc before taking the shot. If you have Lr it also syncs the images to your desktop as well. I've only recently put it on my phone and the only downside is I need my reading glasses to see and change settings when out.

Outstanding, thanks Glenda :th3:

I am downloading the Lightroom app for my droid as we speak, and have set my computer to install Lightroom CC (have only run Lightroom classic until now).

Looking forward to playing around and seeing what it can do :th3:

Bensch

05-03-2018, 5:12pm

No worries. Get in touch when it out-halfwits you!! I sometimes think that the bloody things are smarter than I am :nod: :eek:.

Out of interest John, I noticed today that Teds (https://www.teds.com.au/olympus-omd-em10-mkii-14-42mm-black)has the Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II (with 14-42mm EZ) on special for $699, do you think this is better or worse than the E-PL8?

Really a fan of the viewfinder/eyepiece :th3:

John King

05-03-2018, 5:21pm

Much better IMO.

I would never buy a camera without some kind of VF.
In fact, I upgraded my E-510 to an E-30 almost completely because of the 1:1 100% OVF of the latter.

Bensch

05-03-2018, 6:06pm

Much better IMO.

I would never buy a camera without some kind of VF.
In fact, I upgraded my E-510 to an E-30 almost completely because of the 1:1 100% OVF of the latter.

Thanks John, greatly appreciated :th3:

Looks like this one is the winner then, hopefully, they still have it available on the 15th, looks like the promotion goes until the start of April, so should be good.

I really prefer the VF, rarely use the LCDs on my DSLRs except when doing panoramas, so finding a Mirrorless with a VF (in my price range) is a major bonus :th3:

Floribunda

05-03-2018, 6:14pm

Bensch

05-03-2018, 6:19pm

Just weighing in Andy to support everything that John has said re Olympus and the Four Thirds System.
The quality will never let you down and the colours are superb. For your wildlife shots the Plastic Fantastic 40-150 is worth every dollar.
We travel quite a bit and this system has never failed me yet as the lightness/quality was a main factor when I purchased.

Thanks Lyn, greatly appreciated :th3:

Will definitely grab one of the 40-150s in the next month for sure.

I also notice that they have a 70-300 (giving an equivalent of a 140-600mm) would be nice to have an alternative to my birding setup, without all the weight :th3:

ameerat42

05-03-2018, 6:34pm

...I also notice that they have a 70-300 (giving an equivalent of a 140-600mm) would be nice to have an alternative to my birding setup, without all the weight :th3:

In angle of view only - not in image size. I don't know what sort of an alternative you mean.
F=300mm is at the modest end for birding.

John King

05-03-2018, 6:44pm

In angle of view only - not in image size. I don't know what sort of an alternative you mean.
F=300mm is at the modest end for birding.

Actually, Am ...
The AoV is covering a smaller sensor at higher resolution, so gives an effective FL of 140-600mm compared with a 135 format camera and lens.

ameerat42

05-03-2018, 6:52pm

Perhaps. But it does not rationalise the statement as quoted.
Nor does it invalidate my reply.

John King

05-03-2018, 7:04pm

Am, I own quite a few 135 format lenses for my 135 format cameras. I also have adapters to use these on both my four thirds and mFTs cameras.

The 200mm 35mm lens I have behaves exactly as if it had a FL (actually AoV) of a 400mm lens on a 35mm camera when used on my FTs and mFTs cameras.

ameerat42

05-03-2018, 7:10pm

JK. What are you saying?:confused013

So does it exactly give you an FL of 400mm? Stick to FL for FL statements, and to AoV for AoV statements.

However, I know you only mean "exactly" "actually" "AoV".

John King

05-03-2018, 7:39pm

Am, smaller sensors lose out in light gathering and dynamic range to larger sensors. Not as much these days as some who are remembering data from 10-15 years ago believe, however.

For example, the D850 beats the E-M1 MkII by over a stop in DR when both are at their base ISO (50 and 200 respectively). This narrows when both are at ISO 200. Noise is even more problematic for the smaller FTs sensor (less light gathering area). However, sensors smaller than FTs fall over fairly badly on both these measures.

Where smaller sensors "win" is by effectively cropping the image provided by a given FL lens (i.e. effectively changing the AoV). This advantage relies on having the same number of acceptable quality pixels to capture that image with sufficient resolution, and the lens having sufficient resolving power. mFTs lenses are generally measured at MTF 60, versus MTF 30 for 135 format lenses for this very reason.

Always pluses and minuses.

What's really interesting is that the latest f/w update for the E-M1 MkII appears to decrease noise at 6400 by about half a stop, and improve the AF to near pitch black! (ISO 6400, f/5.6, 1 second).

Bensch

06-03-2018, 12:19pm

Actually, Am ...
The AoV is covering a smaller sensor at higher resolution, so gives an effective FL of 140-600mm compared with a 135 format camera and lens.

Am, I own quite a few 135 format lenses for my 135 format cameras. I also have adapters to use these on both my four thirds and mFTs cameras.

The 200mm 35mm lens I have behaves exactly as if it had a FL (actually AoV) of a 400mm lens on a 35mm camera when used on my FTs and mFTs cameras.

Am, smaller sensors lose out in light gathering and dynamic range to larger sensors. Not as much these days as some who are remembering data from 10-15 years ago believe, however.

For example, the D850 beats the E-M1 MkII by over a stop in DR when both are at their base ISO (50 and 200 respectively). This narrows when both are at ISO 200. Noise is even more problematic for the smaller FTs sensor (less light gathering area). However, sensors smaller than FTs fall over fairly badly on both these measures.

Where smaller sensors "win" is by effectively cropping the image provided by a given FL lens (i.e. effectively changing the AoV). This advantage relies on having the same number of acceptable quality pixels to capture that image with sufficient resolution, and the lens having sufficient resolving power. mFTs lenses are generally measured at MTF 60, versus MTF 30 for 135 format lenses for this very reason.

Always pluses and minuses.

What's really interesting is that the latest f/w update for the E-M1 MkII appears to decrease noise at 6400 by about half a stop, and improve the AF to near pitch black! (ISO 6400, f/5.6, 1 second).

Thanks John :th3:

Spotted this photo online, found it useful, so thought I'd share :th3:

http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=134970

Bensch

06-03-2018, 4:44pm

Edited.

ameerat42

06-03-2018, 5:16pm

Bensch. You should reference that image that you posted in Post #39 above as a link to the image on its
own site, ie, PhotoSeek.com, as it is not your own image.

Please look at Rule 20 here: http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/misc.php?do=vsarules

You can change a post within one hour of the post time.

Colin B

13-03-2018, 6:24pm

Much better IMO.

I would never buy a camera without some kind of VF.
In fact, I upgraded my E-510 to an E-30 almost completely because of the 1:1 100% OVF of the latter.

Amen to that sentiment. I have just bought a Nikon B700 for a travel camera because I am over carting around a heavy SLR plus a bag of lenses. The Nikon is heavier than the Fuji it replaced but still light enough to hang around my neck for extended periods and it really can handle almost every situation I am likely to come across. I particularly like the 60x zoom (so long as I can find a suitable post or wall to lean against.)

One final thought - travel from Australia is expensive and the most important thing is to enjoy the experience yourself - not see everything through a viewfinder.

Bensch

16-03-2018, 6:12pm

Thank you for all your help and comments everyone!!! :):th3:

Picked up the Olympus yesterday, and I am certainly not disappointed!

Going to take a little while to adjust to the new layouts for the menus, but a little practice and RTMing should solve all :th3:

The body itself is 365g with the battery inserted, but certainly feels a lot heavier than that, a beautifully well-made camera :th3:

Was going to pick up the 40-150 lens while at the camera store, but unfortunately, they didn't have it in stock :( but have ordered it online and it should be here next week sometime.

Looking forward to giving it a try over the next few days, managed to get away up the river, so perhaps some landscape photos are in order :th3:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/794/39026831060_d2f41c0587_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/22sEHcA)_DSC8341 (https://flic.kr/p/22sEHcA) by andrewbensch (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30190087@N03/), on Flickr

John King

16-03-2018, 6:26pm

Great news, Andy.

Glad you're off to a flying start with it, mate. Always some element of surprise with a completely new item, either pleasant or otherwise!

Floribunda

16-03-2018, 6:42pm

Well done Andy! Enjoy!
Some good info on the www if you get stuck with menus, but you will work it all out.
We are in Melbourne at the moment, I carried mine all day with one lens and never looked for anything more.

John King

16-03-2018, 7:11pm

I also notice that they have a 70-300 (giving an equivalent of a 140-600mm) would be nice to have an alternative to my birding setup, without all the weight :th3:

The mFTs version is 75-300, effective FL of 150-600mm in 135 format terms.

Check out Robin Wong's review of this lens here:

https://robinwong.blogspot.com.au/2015/07/a-day-at-frasers-hill-with-mzuiko-75.html

It's optically as slow as a dog with three broken legs, but check out the images. It is apparently usable wide open. I don't own it, and have never used or seen one.

Colin B

16-03-2018, 7:11pm

Looks like a neat piece of gear and I am sure you will have a lot of fun figuring out its capabilities.

The best thing about the digital age in my humble opinion is that you can bang away with your new toy, try anything and everything and it isn't costing money to see the results.:th3:

Bensch

16-03-2018, 9:58pm

Great news, Andy.

Glad you're off to a flying start with it, mate. Always some element of surprise with a completely new item, either pleasant or otherwise!

Thanks John, it is certainly going to take some time to get used to compared to the Nikons, but am really enjoying it so far :th3:

Well done Andy! Enjoy!
Some good info on the www if you get stuck with menus, but you will work it all out.
We are in Melbourne at the moment, I carried mine all day with one lens and never looked for anything more.

Thanks Lyn :th3:

Looking forward to getting the 40-150 next week, will fit the bill nicely for zoos, etc.

Was really surprised how nice the finish is, it doesn't feel like a $600 camera, but something much more expensive :th3:

The mFTs version is 75-300, effective FL of 150-600mm in 135 format terms.

Check out Robin Wong's review of this lens here:

https://robinwong.blogspot.com.au/2015/07/a-day-at-frasers-hill-with-mzuiko-75.html

It's optically as slow as a dog with three broken legs, but check out the images. It is apparently usable wide open. I don't own it, and have never used or seen one.

Thanks John, those are some pretty sweet photos :th3:

Will see how the finances go, but will probably pick up one within the next two months :th3:

Looks like a neat piece of gear and I am sure you will have a lot of fun figuring out its capabilities.

The best thing about the digital age in my humble opinion is that you can bang away with your new toy, try anything and everything and it isn't costing money to see the results.:th3:

Thanks Colin, and spot on :th3:

Lots of different settings and functions to play around with, good thing it doesn't cost per photo :)

Managed to fill up the buffer quite quickly several times, 8.5 fps is an amazing frame rate, but think I'll have to invest in a faster SD card to take full advantage of it :th3:

Glenda

17-03-2018, 6:12am

Bensch

18-03-2018, 3:15pm

I'm sure you'll have fun learning all about your new toy. I too found the controls a little quirky after using a Nikon and am always terrified that little lens cap will be lost. I've also looked at that 75-300 lens and have seen the link posted by John. It certainly looks impressive and sooo much lighter than what I'm using at present for birding. Looking forward to seeing some of your shots with it.

Thanks Glenda :th3:

Am really enjoying playing around with the camera, I can see it quite quickly replacing my DSLR for most things, and perhaps even give it a good run for its money when I get a 75-300 :th3:

I know what you mean about that tiny little lens cap :D might have to see if I can source a replacement, and purchase a couple for when (not if) it happens :nod:

A couple of quick photos from yesterday with the Olympus...

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4776/39061104840_cb5b39bd18_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/22vGnAQ)P3170007-2 (https://flic.kr/p/22vGnAQ) by andrewbensch (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30190087@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4774/40162643154_4a94e6204c_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24c33yJ)P3170015-2 (https://flic.kr/p/24c33yJ) by andrewbensch (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30190087@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/819/40162637504_7c036a933e_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24c31Tj)P3170033 (https://flic.kr/p/24c31Tj) by andrewbensch (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30190087@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4772/40162630024_04339efb65_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24c2YEm)P3170035 (https://flic.kr/p/24c2YEm) by andrewbensch (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30190087@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4795/40162615224_cbc976a880_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24c2Ugb)P3170040 (https://flic.kr/p/24c2Ugb) by andrewbensch (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30190087@N03/), on Flickr

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/813/25998689207_6955b7b61f_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FBq5wc)P3170047 (https://flic.kr/p/FBq5wc) by andrewbensch (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30190087@N03/), on Flickr

John King

18-03-2018, 4:18pm

Floribunda

18-03-2018, 4:36pm

Love the pics too. I am wondering if one of the first things you noticed was the accuracy of the Oly colour? With my floral photography it still impresses me as to just how accurate the colours are.
I have the 75-300mm. Use it all the time for birding. It is as slow as a wet week, but that has never worried me for as long as you have plenty of light it gives good results and the cropping factor is tops. On a dull day it stays at home. :)

Glenda

18-03-2018, 6:24pm

The photos look great Andy.

Bensch

18-03-2018, 8:06pm

Love the pics, Andy.

You can buy a self-opening lens cap for the 14-42 EZ.

Also bear in mind that this has a general reputation as being one of the worst mFTs lenses made by anyone.

I have it, but am not about to sell my 12-50 macro, 14-54 MkII (FTs) or 12-100 ... :D.

Thanks John :th3:

If this is the worst len made, I am looking forward to seeing the better lenses, as even this lens is enough to impress me :)

According to tracking info the 40-150 should be here on Wednesday, so I'm looking forward to playing around with it :th3:

Already have my eye on the 75-300, I'll be in Melbourne June 18-23, so am planning on picking it up from DigiDirect while there ($70 or so cheaper than local) :th3:

But will have to order one of those self opening/closing lens caps, perfect for when not using a CPL :th3:

Love the pics too. I am wondering if one of the first things you noticed was the accuracy of the Oly colour? With my floral photography it still impresses me as to just how accurate the colours are.
I have the 75-300mm. Use it all the time for birding. It is as slow as a wet week, but that has never worried me for as long as you have plenty of light it gives good results and the cropping factor is tops. On a dull day it stays at home. :)

Thanks Lyn :th3:

Funny you mention it, I didn't notice the colours at first, but it was how the clouds stood out compared to the DSLR that really got me, everything just seems so much more vivid. But comparing the unedited RAW from both the Oly and the Nikon, the Oly does seem to have that little something extra :th3:

Great info on the 75-300, will be the next lens on my list :th3:

- - - Updated - - -

The photos look great Andy.

Thanks Glenda, greatly appreciated :th3:

John King

18-03-2018, 8:18pm

Andy, if you would like to catch up while you're in town, let me know. I'm retired.

Olympus seems to have a very special understanding of how to get the colour filter array pretty right for colour accuracy IMO. The CFA doesn't get anywhere near the attention it deserves ...

Bensch

18-03-2018, 8:21pm

Bensch

19-03-2018, 9:48am

Just received notification that the 40-150 lens is onboard for delivery today :D

Assuming it doesn't end up at the post office for some reason (anything is possible with AusPost...) I'll be able to have a play around this afternoon with it :th3:

Colin B

19-03-2018, 10:24am

Lens caps are a pain but my Nikon and its predecessor both had tethers linking the cap to the strap. If the Olympus doesn't have this it should be possible to improvise something?

Bensch

19-03-2018, 4:58pm

Lens caps are a pain but my Nikon and its predecessor both had tethers linking the cap to the strap. If the Olympus doesn't have this it should be possible to improvise something?

Thanks Colin :th3:

I had thought about tethering the cap to something, but there isn't really anywhere to do so.

Not a big deal though, as I normally wear a shirt with a top pocket, easy enough to slip the cap in there, I do the same with my Nikon/Sigma lens caps, and have only lost one to date :o

I do like the look of the auto cap that John mentioned a little earlier, am going to definitely add that to my list.

- - - Updated - - -

The 40-150 arrived a little while ago, certainly a fantastic lens with nice focusing speed :th3:

It's also a 58 diameter thread, so it means that I can use some of the screw on filters from my other lenses :th3:

A real quick and dirty pic snapped with the new lens, nice bokeh :)

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/808/40893165011_86893546b8_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/25iAaga)P3190062 (https://flic.kr/p/25iAaga) by andrewbensch (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30190087@N03/), on Flickr

Mary Anne

19-03-2018, 6:58pm

Great looking images Andy, and that last one is a beauty too and as you wrote nice bokeh :th3:

I have that 40-150mm lens and have only used it a couple of times.
May put it on the E-M1 tomorrow and try it out.