Scammers

[Brian500au]

Scammers

One of my hobbies since I was 16 years old is scanning the used ads for equipment, firstly in the newspapers and now of course online. I remember every second Thursday lining up to be one of the first to get a copy of the “Trading Post” and sitting there over the next week scanning every page looking for a set of “jousting sticks”.

Who would have thought this hobby now is fraught with danger in every way. The amount of fraudulent ads on Ebay, Gumtree and Facebook is out of control. The amount of scammers answering ads is also out of control. Why can’t Ebay or Gumtree spot these ads, why isn’t there software to make a scammer give more details when placing an ad - or give more details when opening up an account with Ebay or Gumtree?

There is a distinct pattern to all these scammers.

1. They advertise an item at a very attractive price - not ridiculous but at a less than average price.
2. The scammer always lives in a remote part of Australia - but they get it wrong every now and again and think Bendigo is a remote part of Australia. When they do get it wrong they then tell you they are on a work trip in a different state and have the item with them.
3. The pics in the ad are always lifted from other websites - and frequently they do not match the description exactly. ie a lens pictured as version 1 but the ad tells you it is version 2.
4. Of course they insist on payment via direct bank deposit or some other obscure method. In recent times the scammers have been supplying mobile phone numbers and will accept PayPal - but I suspect in both these cases the mobile is ditched and the PayPal account is cleared and closed. I know in the US funds take 30 days to clear but in Australia I don’t think that is the case.
5. The language they use in correspondence is normally broken english - in some cases I have a feeling the original contact is made by a native speaker but once the hook is in - they pass it off to a controller to fleece the money.

I know the above because in order to learn their techniques I play along with them to get as much information as I can in order to become a wiser online shopper / seller. Now in honest truth I just do not have the time to keep these guys on the line, the numbers are just overwhelming - but if I can do it why can’t the authorities?

What can be done to stop this nonsense - there must be hundreds of “noobies” being fleeced of their hard earned cash every day - and I would think most of it is never reported, let alone investigated. Has society really stooped to the lowest level yet?

[jim]

You're not wrong. I have a car for sale on Gumtree. I've had two responses, both from scammers as a quick Google search revealed (though it was obvious just from what they wrote).

I assume Gumtree don't really care.

[ameerat42]

Indeed, guys! It is P-poor.

Leaving such scammers aside for a moment, it's almost as bad as "legitimate" advertising.
The population is like a pond full of fish: cast any line in and people will almost fight to get
hooked.

Today's example: At a large department store "in the city", a (ladies') T-shirt began at $60.
It then went to $39, and with 50% off today it came to $20. (Still a lot, IMO.) But, hey! That's
1/3 the original price. Did the shop lose money? - No. They would have made it up on the items
that were not discounted - just overpriced.

Just saying that, curiously, we readily accept one, and rail against (with good cause) the other.

[Brian500au]

Indeed, guys! It is P-poor.

Leaving such scammers aside for a moment, it's almost as bad as "legitimate" advertising.
The population is like a pond full of fish: cast any line in and people will almost fight to get
hooked.

Today's example: At a large department store "in the city", a (ladies') T-shirt began at $60.
It then went to $39, and with 50% off today it came to $20. (Still a lot, IMO.) But, hey! That's
1/3 the original price. Did the shop lose money? - No. They would have made it up on the items
that were not discounted - just overpriced.

Just saying that, curiously, we readily accept one, and rail against (with good cause) the other.

Having been in small business, I understand legitimate selling of items. It is all about marketing - taking advantage of the earlier adopters etc. In cases like the above we have a choice to make if we want buy it at an inflated price (which savvy shoppers know) or do we wait for "sales". My wife is an expert in this area - she peruses items she marks on the want list and then visits every sale hoping for a bargain. Brick and mortar shops are suffering and they are not making excessive profits in my opinion - if they were then competition would move in to erode that profit.

Scammers on the other hand ...... don't get me started again :lol2:

[paulheath]

on one of the " camera buy sell and swap " facebook pages the scammers ALWAYS come from Devonport Tasmania.... with ridiculous pricing for huge amounts of gear...i mean come on...Tassie has a hard enough time as it is :D;)

[Brian500au]

on one of the " camera buy sell and swap " facebook pages the scammers ALWAYS come from Devonport Tasmania.... with ridiculous pricing for huge amounts of gear...i mean come on...Tassie has a hard enough time as it is :D;)

One of my replies once I learn where the say they are is let them know my "uncle" is a local there and will come around and pay cash, save them having to post the item. It is rare I get a reply.

[Geoff79]

You're not wrong. I have a car for sale on Gumtree. I've had two responses, both from scammers as a quick Google search revealed (though it was obvious just from what they wrote).

I assume Gumtree don't really care.

This had slipped my mind but we had the same thing when we tried to sell my wife’s car through gumtree. It actually made me quite sad and dejected, probably because it was my wife’s thing. Not to mention the anger it stirred up.

The thing I simply cannot tolerate about scammers is their complete disregard for anyone, anywhere, in any situation. Wife supporting dying spouse; they’d be happy to steal their last dollars. Struggling single parent; they’d take their last dollars. Dying cancer patient... it makes no difference, and they don’t care whose money it is. To me, it is about the filthiest non-physical crime (is that a thing?) i can imagine.

I know everyone seems to hate capital punishment, but just to be nicely politically incorrect, I would love if this (and many other crimes) was punishable by death. Problem with that is I don’t think any of these cretins are ever caught. :(

Anyway, rant over. I do despise scammers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ricktas]

Yep. the world seems to have more scammers than genuine folk these days. Money has become more important than actual living beings. Be that human or animal.


This had slipped my mind but we had the same thing when we tried to sell my wife’s car through gumtree. It actually made me quite sad and dejected, probably because it was my wife’s thing. Not to mention the anger it stirred up.

The thing I simply cannot tolerate about scammers is their complete disregard for anyone, anywhere, in any situation. Wife supporting dying spouse; they’d be happy to steal their last dollars. Struggling single parent; they’d take their last dollars. Dying cancer patient... it makes no difference, and they don’t care whose money it is. To me, it is about the filthiest non-physical crime (is that a thing?) i can imagine.

I know everyone seems to hate capital punishment, but just to be nicely politically incorrect, I would love if this (and many other crimes) was punishable by death. Problem with that is I don’t think any of these cretins are ever caught. :(

Anyway, rant over. I do despise scammers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I always think some aspect of Sharia Law should be introduced. Like caught stealing...get your fingers cut off.

[Gazza]

Caveat Emptor...?

[Brian500au]

What I can't work out is the authorities are aware this happens on a mass scale but do nothing to stop it.

[Claire M]

It's all about MONEY! Most likely costs too much to find these bastards, so the Authorities will only go so far, (and the Governments don't want to fork out more than they feel they have to either) particularly if these crooks cover their tracks well. 'Money is the root of all evil' so they say, and unfortunately, it often is.

[Hamster]

It’s just humans being humans. We’re a strange mix of social beings that also want to take advantage and gain power, control or wealth. It’s been happening since time began, in my opinion religion is one of the greatest scams going, even if it also does have social benefits. Better comms makes more victims accessible. As said, buyer beware, although unfortunately we are also programmed to trust until we learn otherwise.

[Brian500au]

Caveat Emptor...?

I really do not think it should be a case of "Caveat Emptor". Why should we be on guard for every transaction in life? Scamming is at plague proportions and I can only think of the disaster this is causing to the young, the lonely and the elderly (with no remorse).

The scammers are now posing as bank officials, tax officers, insurance reps etc. Are we at the point when your dad rings you have to ask him five questions to identify himself before you tell him how your day has been?

[John King]

Jeez, Brian.

If my dad rang, I'd ask him a lot more than five questions - he's been dead for 20 years ... :nod: :rolleyes:.

However, I do agree with your basic premise. These people and organisations are the scum of the earth.

[Hawthy]

I have never had a problem on Ebay because the feedback ratings give you some protection. In fact, I once bought something quite cheap on Ebay that was not quite as described and received an unsolicited refund from Ebay saying that they had determined that the seller's wares were not up to scratch and here's your refund. Their advice is to never arrange to pay for anything outside of the Ebay site. They miss out on their clip, I suppose, but still sound advice. I pulled out of a purchase on Ebay when the vendor insisted that I pay direct.

That said, Gumtree transactions can be decidedly dodgy. There are often stories in the news of people trying to sell on Gumtree having their car / camera/ phone stolen when they meet people on the pretence of showing them the goods. One bloke recently was dragged 100 metres down the road when he refused to let go of his car that was being stolen by a gang of guys who called him up after seeing his ad on Gumtree.

However, is this a new thing? Back in the 1980's, my brother left his ute with a mate to sell while he went overseas. Someone took it for a test drive and never brought it back. Made for an interesting insurance claim.

Finally, I work in the finance industry. The number of fraudulent applications that we receive each day is staggering. Some are very clever and sophisticated and some not so much.

[Brian500au]

I suppose I am just venting at the moment as I have few items for sale and I have been sorting the scammers out for a few days now. It is time consuming.

I ended tonight by asking a scammer if he had just graduated from scammer school as he was pathetic in his attempt scam me. I played with him for a day or two until it become boring. if nothing else I like to waste their time - but in the end all I am doing is wasting my own time.

[ameerat42]

Yeah, I can understand your rant. Lucky we've got such nice institutions like
banks!

[Gazza]

I really do not think it should be a case of "Caveat Emptor". Why should we be on guard for every transaction in life? Scamming is at plague proportions and I can only think of the disaster this is causing to the young, the lonely and the elderly (with no remorse).

The scammers are now posing as bank officials, tax officers, insurance reps etc. Are we at the point when your dad rings you have to ask him five questions to identify himself before you tell him how your day has been?
An interesting read in this thread...

Brian, or is that Kel?, hope I'm not getting scammed (sorry, couldn't help myself :grinning01: :grinning01:), I personally don't need or want to pay for yet another governing authority to watch my every move or hover-over my welfare. Perhaps we already have something place, I wouldn't know. Maybe someone is behind the scenes watching my every move, a sad and boring view for them.

You ask, "Why should we be on guard for every transaction in life?". My simple answer, "Because it is part of every day life. Always has been, always will be!"

Nothing I can think of is going to stop the 'Haves' ripping off the 'Have nots' (yes, I got that the right way around)

My small contribution to lessen this problem; I invested some time over the years teaching my children to be wary and question every little thing. I'm sure the majority of parents do? My thinking was that 'that' should be a part of their every day 'life skills'. So far so good. My mission now is to help them teach their children, and so it goes on......

I don't think our young are that vulnerable when it comes to the 'tech' scams? It's all around them. Maybe there is a problem, maybe I'm just totally ignorant to it? I certainly don't see in my small circle. They talk amongst themselves and without realising, teach each other more skills. Live-n-learn.

The elderly, well yes, they are being constantly targeted.
My thinking was 'that' problem would slowly fade away with natural attrition (sad fact of life) and our not-so-young would move up to that Elderly statis and be more 'life ready'. Maybe they will, maybe the sammers will come up with better ways of deceiving/relieving us?

Geez, that's a lot of typing! Short answer, 'Buyer Beware'

[arthurking83]

I really do not think it should be a case of "Caveat Emptor". Why should we be on guard for every transaction in life? ....
Actually! it always has been.

back in the bad ol days of the Trading Post .. you had no idea if the stuff you were buying were obtained illegally, and you were unwittingly in on that type of scam.

And I think there is only one possible answer to the point that the majority of internet activity is basically about scamming.

Anonymity/privacy.

People think that protecting their privacy is of paramount importance .. and fair enough too if that's an important aspect of your life.
But until this idea of privacy is eliminated from society, and the ability to maintain anonymity is always a possibility .. scamming is always going to be a part of life. (hence why caveat emptor is such an old concept).

Funny thing happened to me a while back: where my bank called me about my unpaid credit card(which I thought I paid off and closed down) after some years a small amount of money had accrued on it.
Person on the other end of the phone says:
"I just want to confirm you're identity please"
.. and my response was "yep! .. so who am I?"

They wanted me to tell them my details!
I'm explaining to this person to understand this situation from my point of view .. some person trying to confirm details of a stranger about banking details .. via an unsolicited phone call .. Are you f...ng kidding me!! :lol:

Turns out that the call was legit. I gave the person on the end of the line a bucket load of expletive laden vitriol unnecessarily

If you want a scamless world, and without a doubt with a lot less other criminal activity to go with that ... then think of a world without privacy where the authorities will know almost every aspect of your life.

[I @ M]

Andrew, scroll to the bottom of the gumtree page and you will see this -------- Copyright © 2007-2018 eBay. All Rights Reserved.

I do not trust either site to buy any items from unless it is a face to face sale but in saying that I have been successfully selling a few bits and pieces on gumtree.

[Brian500au]

Guys there is no doubt we will never live is a scamless world - but surely Ebay and Gumtree can make it safer for you and me to buy and sell genuine equipment. I mean there is a ton of stuff you cannot do without showing 100 points of identification - why is this not compulsory for Gumtree and Ebay? If you buy / sell something Ebay / Gumtree could have a mark next to your name saying you are a verified real person. It may not eliminate all scammers but it goes some ways to make the trading a little safer.

Paypal could look at your trading history and if you are a noobie then with hold releasing funds until you have verified you have received the goods (or 30 days after due delivery).

I am no expert in this field but in the end the fraud is costing you and me money - the Ebay / Paypal / Gumtree fees all cover what is paid out for fraud by these companies.

[ameerat42]

Just adding today's Spam Box receipts. Yerd affter bi dummter falferit! :rolleyes:
134703

- - - Updated - - -

On a side note...

Suddenly AdBlock Plus on FFox was letting in Ads like I had not seen for years!
Had a look at its Options and found "Allow Acceptable Ads" was ticked!

Well, feeling somewhat ticked off (:confused013 how that happened), I ticked it back Off.:nod:

[Mark L]

4. Of course they insist on payment via direct bank deposit or some other obscure method.

Wow, glad I bought a wonderful lens and monopod via these methods from you Kel.:D
It's about trust and confirming who you are dealing with I suspect.

[Brian500au]

Wow, glad I bought a wonderful lens and monopod via these methods from you Kel.:D
It's about trust and confirming who you are dealing with I suspect.

Mark when I am dealing with somebody - I always give all personal details up front. I recently sold an expensive lens but insisted he either travel three hours to my place to inspect or I would deliver the lens to him before any payment was made. I also gave the guy a copy of my driver's license and confirmed my address and phone number for him (basically a 100 point ID).

In cases here at Ausphotography there are cases where I have sent the item to the buyer to try before they buy. As you said Mark it is about trust and confirming who you are dealing with.

I always off people to pay via PayPal if they want to cover the charges.