Really Right Stuff Ball Head?

[Snpsht]

Hi

I am looking to upgrade my tripod head and, after messing around for the past 8 years with things that don't quite work and/or are fiddly and ineffective I am thinking a RRS ball head might be the way to go.

Has anyone had any personal experience with these?

[arthurking83]

yeah BH-55 here.

Great unit overall.
But overpriced for what it does.

that is it works, and it's very well built, but I've had to adapt my method to get it to work the way I was expecting a high priced item would.

Quality: very high
Ease of use: nice to excellent
Physical properties: excellent
Ability: good
Value for Money: poor.(at current exchange rates). note that I got mine when the AuD was above $1.10, but now it's devalues massively.
Would I buy again, now .. no way(knowing what I know) would I buy again if the exchange rate was back as it was .. No!(knowing what I know now).

I'll explain my main issue with it.
First off, it is a good ballhead. If you want a low weight low profile head, yep! does the job.
if it's for landscapes and you throw the tripod and head into the back of the car as roughly and carelessly as you can .. it'll outlive most of us .. it feels solid as a rock.

The gripe is the way you need to operate it to get it to lock down.
If you use the obvious large dial to lock it down, it droops.
For 99.9% of landscapes(my main interest) .. that droop is insignificant.. a row of pixels that you wont/can't notice in a landscape shot. If you shoot 600+mm landscapes . you may notice the droop, but I'm confident it won't be an issue for you either(it's not for me).

The problem: macro. can't frame a macro with this head using the 'obvious' control knob to lock the head tight.
There is a small tension control dial/know thing. This allows you to set a tension. From fully floppy, to tenaciously tight.

That is the large knob can be set to flop the head with barely 1° of turn, or it the tension dial can be set so hard that you can't use the large dial to move the ball at all! Somewhere iin between is the best setting tho ;)

So when you use the large dial as is obvious to do, the frame droop that's not worthy of mentioning in landscape usage, is a major issue when you do closer up framing. At the macro 1:1 level it's so annoying as to almost force you to sell the damned thing.

BUT! .. coming back to the small tension dial.
Knowing that it also controls ball tension, it made sense to try using this to 'lock' down the ball.
And it works,

So for macro or any closer up framing that is critical(eg. some architecture, or whatever) I need to use this small dial so that the framing doesn't move as I lock it down.
For landscapes I just use the large dial, as it's naturally is the one your hand will go for.

In terms of impressive presentation .. they get 10/10. It comes with a swish looking pouch a nice box some nice allen key .. and I'm thinking why? all crud. I've never used or seen those things in the 6 or 7 years I've had this thing now.
But it is durable. I've barely cleaned it, and I think if I did, it may work less well anyhow.

I did get the screw in plate type, as I was warned that the quick flip type can be problematic. Got used to it quickly tho .. I like them much better now.
It's hard to get my head around that the cheaper price means that you get no plate, and that the plate they have for it is $$$ too.
But like I said with the exchange rate as it was back then it came in at an ok price, and I thought I had a bargain!

So the only thing I can really complain about is that droop on lockdown. a high end product such as this shouldn't do that .. period!
This product has been hyped to high-heaven, and I fell for it.
But the 'workaround' was easy to figure out .. even tho there should have been no reason to have to figure that out to begin with.


I have plans soon to acquire another ballhead again.
When I say that tho I've procrastinated on this for about 3 years now!!
But my two main interests for this new purchase are:

Feisol CB-70D(by its specs appears to be massively large and heavy!) :eek:
and
FLM Centreball 58FTR

- - - Updated - - -

ps. what tripod legs are you looking to put this on too?

[Snpsht]

Thanks Arthur for the detailed response.

At the moment I have a little Sirui tripod that is excellent for air travel/backpacking, but am looking to get something a bit more sturdy for general use locally, possibly a Gitzo.

The reason I am looking at the RRS ballhead is that a few months ago I met a chap with one and the control he had over it and ease of use was really extremely impressive - he let me make a few adjustments and it felt great, locking positively at a range of angles, silky smooth, rock solid etc even with the ff camera and large lens.


Tax man was kind this year so it's a good (and possibly last) opportunity to get my rest-of-life dream tripod and head!

[arthurking83]

.... he let me make a few adjustments and it felt great, locking positively at a range of angles, silky smooth, rock solid etc even with the ff camera and large lens. .....

That's definitely the way it operates :th3:
But like I said, it sucks you in, but then lets you down(a little).
The description above is why I mentioned that quality of material and ease of handling and stuff .. all excellent.
If you do landscape stuff .. :th3:

As for the Gitzo tripod .. maybe mine was just a bit of a dud, but a few things have broken on it that have 'put me off Gitzo a bit'.
Same deal as with the BH-55. It's still a good product, but don't believe the hype that it's up there with the best showing others how it should be done!
Save yourself some $s and get the equivalent sized Benro .. and the dollars you save I think can be close to 50% too! If it's a solid heavy gear tripod you want, I'd suggest the Benro 4570T. Not a portable 'travel' sized set of legs, but impressive quality.
The one thing that's always annoyed me with the Gitzo has been the little flip out thing you need to move before you open out the legs. They're dinky lil things and you can easily get a finger pinched in there too.
Gitzo's similarly operated lil flip things are a much better design, and (from memory) you have to deliberately try hard to get any finger pinched in moving it(which obviously you wouldn't do).

Gitzo has been rock solid for that macro stuff mentioned earlier. but the mechanism on the top plate that holds the column tight on mine broke. No reason for it to break, I was just tightening it up and it then kept spinning the column. So I can tighten the column, I can still get it to spin(or rotate).
Not particularly impressed by that fault.
I've been meaning to get a replacement top plate for it .. a company(Kirk maybe) make a better looking top plate(where the column issue originated) but it's low on the list of priorities ATM.

Note tho that my comments don't mean that you won't be happy with either of those two branded items. They have been extremely durable considering what they've been put through. I don't abuse them, but I don't baby them either.
Obviously the Gitzo has it's column issue, but nothing has broken. it hasn't worn down like my aluminium manfrotto lens have(in terms of the finish).
With the Gitzo you do get black hands after a while of operating or holding it. not sure if this is carbon residue(don't think so) or just that it attracts dirt/dust more readily.. but you do need to clean it more often than an Al tripod that I can think of.

I would still only ever get carbon again tho .. :th3:

[Snpsht]

Thanks Arthur

I may still go the RRS head - landscape is my main thing - but will definitely do some more homework re both it and the Gitzo . Thanks for your suggestions. Given that I want this to be the last tripod I buy, I might take a trip to Sydney to try a few in person....I live in a small coastal town where nothing of this calibre is available locally.

Whatever it is , it will be carbon (as is the Sirui), as I already have a nice aluminium Manfrotto that gets left at home because of its weight . It will be sold.

[arthurking83]

Yeah, I can recommend the RRS head in terms of quality of the product, and as a primarily landscaper you'll love it.
Just remember that if you ever come across frame droop issues, to use the friction adjuster to lock the ball, not the main release.
I just can't recommend it as a value for money product(unless the exchange rate switches around).

Note that I noticed a much cheaper Chinese branded copy of the RRS BH-55. Couldn't remember where I saw it and now just remembered. It's the mob in Syd called photoshopstudio or something. I got my two Yongnuo lenses from there, and noticed this ballhead.
The brand is Leofoto and the model is cheekily called LH-55. To me it looks like a direct ripoff, but at a significant $ saving.
I'd be curious if someone were to have a look at one and comment on the quality of the materials(more than anything else). I don't get to Sydney often, being in Melb. The design similarity even extends into the inner area between ball and the body, where there is what looks like a teflon sleeve thing.. same as the RRS design. Haven't seen that design style until recently from Manfrotto on one of their upper end models.
So the ball doesn't sit directly inside the body. there's this inner thing which I think gives the BH-55 it's fluid/smooth feeling of movement.
I'm almost tempted jut to get one for thesake of a direct comparison .. even tho I don't need another 55mm ballhead.(I'm partial to the 70mm Feisol ATM)

But as an estimate(or guess) of what I think would be a great support system for an allrounder landscaper(ie. if you do long lens landscape as well as the usual UWA stuff) I reckon this Leofoto + Benro C4570T carbon legs would be a good value for money setup.
I don't think this pairing would cost more than $800, and you'd probably see some change from it.

[Snpsht]

Thanks again...I found that mob in Sydney and they also have a good price on the Benro tripod, which does appear to suit my needs admirably. I admit to being not too keen on the flippy leg locks (as used by Manfrotto and Gitzo, among others) as my arthritis can make them hard to lock closed. The Sirui has the twist ones and they definitely suit me better.

I think I'll see if I can contact the chap down here with the RRS head and have a closer look. He was absolutely stoked with his, and given the knock off is also pretty exxie I might go the original, and put it on the Benro legs

[jim]

First off, it is a good ballhead. If you want a low weight low profile head, yep! does the job.
if it's for landscapes and you throw the tripod and head into the back of the car as roughly and carelessly as you can .. it'll outlive most of us .. it feels solid as a rock.

The gripe is the way you need to operate it to get it to lock down.
If you use the obvious large dial to lock it down, it droops.
For 99.9% of landscapes(my main interest) .. that droop is insignificant.. a row of pixels that you wont/can't notice in a landscape shot. If you shoot 600+mm landscapes . you may notice the droop, but I'm confident it won't be an issue for you either(it's not for me).

The problem: macro. can't frame a macro with this head using the 'obvious' control knob to lock the head tight.
There is a small tension control dial/know thing. This allows you to set a tension. From fully floppy, to tenaciously tight.



Is that really an issue? It sounds like how they're supposed to work.

[arthurking83]

Is that really an issue?....

The re frame drop issue?
If that's what you're asking .. for sure.
So you release the small tension adjuster to the point where the main ball adjuster knob allows a fluid movement of the ball itself.
This then allows you to move the camera for framing but it's not so free that the whole camera lens combo flops.
It's like a fluid head. Smooth movement, ability to move millimeters here or there, but not loose where the camera flops down(which could damage lens).
Once you have inched the framing to how you like it, the natural method to 'lock' the ball is with the large ball tightening knob.
But if you do that with the BH-55(no matter the lens) the tightening action always drops the lens and you've lost that millimeter of precise framing you worked hard to achieve.

So the way I use it, is as above with the framing, but instead of using the large control to lock down the ball(which will move), I tighten up the small friction/tension control to stop the ball from moving, but also not reframing.
This is counter intuitive to how you'd expect the device to work.
The other issue is: with the friction control now locked up, it's hard to undo(the knob thing is very small).
But, undoing the large control now does nothing. The ball won't move if you release the main control, because the small friction thing has gripped it hard.
So you have to now tighten the main control! :confused: .. and then release the small friction control(it's the only way it will release!) and then you can undo the main control again to move the ball!

If it sounds confusing, it's only because it is! .. it took me a while to get used to it, but now I am.



.... It sounds like how they're supposed to work.

if you look at all other manufacturers friction control systems, they have this small control on top of the main control.
I also have Manfrottos MG hydrostatic ball head too which has it this way.
This device works more like how they're supposed to work. You adjust the friction to suit the camera lens combo. The ball is now free to move(fluidly) but not loosely. You frame up, and tighten the large main control.
Took me ages to get to like this Manfrotto thing, and that was only after a blast with WD-40 and some carby cleaner.
The ball had a heap of some kind of lubricant goop on it. WD cleaned it out, and the carby cleaner dried it out.
Before, it was pretty unstable and the drop it displayed was even worse.
After cleaning, it's still not as stable as the BH-55 when they're locked up, but the Manfrotto head now doesn't droop even half a millimeter! :th3:
After a lot of use too tho, it's panning base must be internally worn and if I lock the panning base, it moves a mil or so sideways in some spots.

There's a tripod shootout on DPR from a few years back and they show you the issues with some of these ballheads.
BH-55(most expensive) wasn't the best .. that's where I came across the FLM head I referred too up there ^

[Cage]

http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?152228-Heavy-Duty-Ball-Heads

I think I remember reading about some issues with the Arca Swiss head, can't remember what they were, but no such problems with the Markins.

I have the Markins Q10, the model below the one Kel is selling, and it is currently supporting a Sigma 150-600 Sport, all 3.5kgs of it. I'd buy Markins again, and in fact if I wasn't saving for a UWA lens I'd have already bought the Q20.

re the Feisol brand AK mentioned: I have one of their panning bases, very well made. The mob who used to sell them in Oz till Feisol decided to sell their stuff direct here, and had every reason to be pissed off with them, instead gave them a big wrap.

[Mark L]

Check this out ... http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?152228-Heavy-Duty-Ball-Heads

[Hamster]

Check this out ... http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?152228-Heavy-Duty-Ball-Heads

Why? You're thinking he may still have a few for sale, even 10 years on?
Possible I guess [emoji848]

[Brian500au]

Why? You're thinking he may still have a few for sale, even 10 years on?
Possible I guess [emoji848]

These were only posted in May and yes they are still for sale. Top quality ball heads - I just have too many in my stable.

[Hamster]

Ah, Tapatalk shows the date as 09-07 and doesn't show the 2017 bit, so I thought the post date was 2007. That explains my confusion with Mark's post, cheers.

[Morgo]

I have a BH55 and 30 head from RRS along with a tripod, a monopod/head and a heap of plates and brackets.

I really like them, they are well built and solid and just feel quality.

I've not had an issue with noticeable drop on my heads though I don't shoot macro.

[Snpsht]

Thanks for this comment Morgo..it eases my (hopefully very temporary) buyer's remorse!

I ended up pushing the button on an RRS ball head and L-plate after chatting to another extremely satisfied customer and reading a heap of reviews. Unlikely I'll buy one of their tripods though...it is just that much too much $$$ with having to add GST on arrival.

The research continues, and probably will now until I go to Sydney and handle a few.

[Morgo]

I can remember reading RRS has tweaked the design of the bh55 over the years to improve it as well. Perhaps the one with the drop issue was an older one?

[arthurking83]

..

I've not had an issue with noticeable drop on my heads though I don't shoot macro.

note that you don't need macro to see this issue.

ps. I found that DPR review too in the LINK (https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/battle-of-the-titans-top-ball-heads-tested/11)

All you need is any reasonably long-ish lens. I've used my 70-200 at MFD(but that's less than 1m, and most don't get that close).. but 300mm and close range may show the issue.

Try to line up any straight horizontal line and try to place it at either the top or bottom edge of the camera's framing(assuming a 100% vf coverage through it). Live view is usually 100% coverage.
So you tighten the large control just so that the framing doesn't move when you let go of the camera/lens combo.
Then not touching anything other than the large control, tighten it up so it's locked good.
Frame drops enough so that straight horizontal edge is no longer where you placed it.
Not a problem for most usage, unless a horizontal line needs to be where you intially frame it.
Big problem for macro when you're closer than 1:1. What you had in the centre of the frame then moves closer to an edge!

If you check out the DPR shootout(I linked directly to the RRS page) scroll down to near the bottom of the review and check out the target looking image. use their rollover links to see the effect.

EDIT: check the drop of the FLM head #4 .. or more accurately lack of drop!

Note that my Manfrotto hydrostatic ball head used to do the same thing till I attacked it with WD-40 and cleaned out all the lube they use in it.
Originally it was worse than the BH-55, but with all that black goop removed it's rock solid and in my quick test with it, I now get zero drop.
I thought maybe this was the same deal with the BH-55 .. some lube stuff doing the same .. but it's not. no lube that I can see.
So like I said, my solution was to not use the large control to lock the ball in place, but to use the friction control adjuster to lock my ability to loosen the ball instead. Simple and it works .. but not ideal.

Like Morgo said tho, and I said the same thing. . in terms of materials used and quality of finish .. about as high as it gets I think.
I've had mine now for a good 7+ years ... maybe 9 or so. Had a hard life out in deserts in sand, getting thrown about in the car, thrown into the car when in a hurry thrown to the floor when it's drop issue pissed me right off! :D

But the finish when cleaned up still looks like new!

And in terms of rigidity(ie. vibration control) it's definitely better than my Manfrotto. Holding 840mm at f/5.6 at close range(about 2-2.5m) much steadier.

[Brian500au]

I have a BH-55 and a BH-40 (along with the Markins and the Arca Swiss). I have decided to keep the RRS ball heads and sell both the Markins and Arca Swiss heads.

I might retest all my heads this weekend as per Arthur's procedure to see for my self which head is the best.

[mikew09]

I admit I am not much of a tripod user and probably only bolt on the camera 5D3 6 to 8 times a month. I have had the one of the heavier design Vanguard tripods for maybe 6/7 yrs and found it to a sturdy, trouble free and useable. For the last two yrs I have run the more up market Vanguard BBH-100 ball head which has proved to be very good with one frustration that is driving me to a Manfrotto ball head.

In its favour, this ball head does not slip at all with just med pressure to tighten and I am talking a gripped 5D3 with 70-200 lens. My main grip with this model ball head is it doesnt have a click on base plate. You need to slide in the base plate and then clamp by twisting the knob on the side. The problem I have with this is it allows for instability of the camera and there is no click of confidence that the base plate has clamped in as with other such as the Manfrotto which has a very positive click in of the base plate and a clear indication it has bedded in with the release lever / lock. I almost dropped my camera one time when I thought I had clamped it in but had just missed the edge of the slide. I highly recommend the tripod but not so much the ball head