Printing photos

[Wanderer]

Hi

I would love some help if I could. I have an image ~1400x1000 pixels that I need to print out 20x25cm in size but at that size I do not have enough resolution I think?

Can anyone help me with how I can best print my picture at that size retaining a quality image? how to increase the number of pixels?

Your help is much appreciated, I am new to printing enlarged photos and all the dpi info has been a lot to understand...

Wanderer

[jim]

Assume you're printing it yourself on your own printer? Mare's nest, I'm out.

Sorry.

[ameerat42]

Hi Wanderer.

I shifted your thread to the "General Help" forum. And I think you're well past "New to Photography".

A couple of Qs...
So, what image software do you use?
Are you printing this yourself at home?

And a bit of a general reply pending more info...
I do not think that 1400 x 1000 pixels is too low in resolution to print at 25x20cm. It depends on how
good the image is. But first, do you mean to print it on 25 x 20 cm paper and trim off the excess?
(The 1400 x 1000 pixels would yield an image approx 25 x 17.8 cm.)

Will you be setting the format of the print yourself, or will it be done by someone at a printer's?
They might enlarge it more so that it fills the whole of a 25 x 20 paper, and then you'd lose some
image from the sides.

If you have image processing software (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc) you can set the print size to
25 x 17.8 WITHOUT re-scaling the image (increasing the number of pixels). You can then use your
monitor screen and set the display to show "Print Size". That will give you an idea of how it will
look on paper (whether it pixelates or goes too fuzzy, etc). If it does, then a re-scaling (or re-sampling)
to a higher pixel count MAY help. - Again, depending on the image quality.

If you can display the picture here at the FULL 1400 x 1000 pixel size it might help. BUT NOTE: the size limit
for "attachments" on AP is 1200 pixels and 400KB, so if you can, link to the proper size image on something like
Flickr if you have that.

[tandeejay]

That is at about 140 DPI. If you print on canvas you can usually get away with a lower res due to the texture of the canvas hiding the lack of quality.

If your printing at somewhere like officeworks, 20x25 isn't going to be hugely expensive (about $2.90) so why not try it out.

Also depends how close viewers will be as to whether the lack of quality will be noticable.

[Wanderer]

OK thank you for your help :) I'll try answer your questions if I can.

I only have Digital Photo Professional that came with my camera.
I need to print it for a photo competition I entered as an online entry just for fun not expecting to get anywhere and now they have asked for a mounted print and I am doubting that I can print it at sufficient quality - oops! I would be printing it at a photo lab place as I have no capacity for printing at home and hoping they can help me with how to mount it as I have no idea about that either! They need a minimum print size of 20x25cm...
Great tip about Officeworks - I might try that. I need it pretty quickly unfortunately as the entries for prints close 1st Sept.
I was going to give up and not put a print entry in, but then thought I should atleast try!
Sorry I posted in the wrong section - I was struggling to find the right spot and was reading other posts in there about printing photos.

[ameerat42]

That's OK. So, any chance of showing us the print? If you DON'T have Flickr or similar
hosting site, post it here in TWO PARTS, like the LHS and the RHS. That way you get
past the 1200 pixel limit, and surely then you'd beat the 400KB limit as well. Just don't
shrink it to fit. It's important to be at the full size.

[Wanderer]

Let me know if this works - I just created a flikr account...
I am not sure if it will show at full size?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/151547321@N07/35683029004/in/dateposted-public/

[ameerat42]

I see the image at "full size", but there's the message:

"Download: The owner has disabled downloading of their photos "

To link to it so that it displays here on AP, you need the BB code from the "Share" option.

That's a pretty long string of text, with URLs, IMGs, Flickr, a reference to the owner, and...

Insert that code here.

However. I saw it displayed at 1024 pixels and IMO it would print well at the size you want.

[Wanderer]

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4367/35683029004_52be821c86_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/WnbRm1)IMG_5776 - ratio (https://flic.kr/p/WnbRm1) by Jessica Butterfly (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151547321@N07/), on Flickr

Is this better?

Thank you so much for your help :) I will do some trial prints at Officeworks I think and see how I go :)

[Plays With Light]

When you export it make sure to have it set to a high DPI setting. Actually, I just downloaded your image from flickr and notice it is already at 350 DPI, which is excellent for a good quality print.

Good luck in the contest! :th3:

[Wanderer]

When you export it make sure to have it set to a high DPI setting. Actually, I just downloaded your image from flickr and notice it is already at 350 DPI, which is excellent for a good quality print.

Good luck in the contest! :th3:

Thanks Alex - it is more printing it at 20x30cm that is the issue. My image printed at 350dpi is only 9x6.5cm if I understand all the dpi correctly as it is only a small file size.

[Plays With Light]

Thanks Alex - it is more printing it at 20x30cm that is the issue. My image printed at 350dpi is only 9x6.5cm if I understand all the dpi correctly as it is only a small file size.
There should, fingers crossed, be a means of exporting it to a larger size than that, whilst retaining a high DPI rate, say even 240 DPI with Digital Photo Pro. The program should interpolate all the data given and approximate what it needs so as to enlarge the image to the dimensions you need.

Just discovered it does indeed do this via the Canon Australia site (http://support-au.canon.com.au/contents/AU/EN/8201532900.html).

In stage 7 of this step by step, you need to choose the CM (centimetre) dimensions you want it to be at, making sure to lock the aspect ratio.

Then hit save and it should work a treat.

I'd try exporting it at 350 DPI and also at 240 DPI and see if there is a difference.

One further thought, if you are going to print it at Officeworks, make sure you take the image with you in a couple of different formats, my local store can't print TIFF's, only jpegs and dng's for some reason. Your local store may well be able to print TIFF's and that would be my preference to print from as it will have much better quality than a jpeg.

One more further thought. Why is the image only 1400 x 1000 pixels in size? Is it a serious crop from the original file?

[ameerat42]

Careful! Careful! Talking about DPI and pixels can be confusing, as you have indicated, Wanderer.

Alex. I would suggest you tell us how you determined it to be 350 DPI.

Reason: DPI is a printing parameter, whereas Photoshop, DPP, etc, usually only let you adjust the
"pixels per inch/cm". You can only specify DPI at the print stage.

If you set this image to, say, 350 PIXELS-PER-INCH, that will NOT tell the printer to print at 350 DPI.

Further, if you DO NOT resample the image, then the "physical size" (can't think of a better name) of
the image will shrink, but the file size will remain the same. HOWEVER, if you DO resample, then you add
extra pixels to the image and so make it a larger file.

This can be a bit confusing, but (I have found) it helps to consider DPI and PPI as two separate things,
one print-related, and the other image-related.

In the image below (which looks just :th3: at the original size) I have set its "physical size" to be 25 cm
across WITHOUT resampling. At that "size", it corresponds to ~146 pixels/inch. This is a long-winded way
of saying: "Just print it as it is." - At first.

Wandering Bee (shown at 1200 pixels across for AP)...
131883

[Wanderer]

Yes Plays With Light it is a serious crop - something I find common with photos of small things like bees :) as I get more depth of field being that little bit further away with my lens. The closer I get, the more magnification and then the less depth of field as I do not have a cool flash to enable me to use a higher f-stop etc (plus I like taking pics with natural lighting).
It was a pic taken for interest, and the comp was a second thought and a last minute one at that. And I have a pretty old basic camera these days - hence a relatively small pixel count to start with as well.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you again ameerat42 - do you know if it would improve my print to enlarge the pixel count (resample etc?)
Or try it at around 140ppi? (my min size for the comp is 20x25cm...)

- - - Updated - - -

But thankyou Plays With Light for the suggestions I will indeed try to export it and enlarge it in DPP and see what result I get and if it looks OK enlarged like that :)

[ameerat42]

Again, do it. Print one image at a doubled pixel count, and the other at this one.
It would be interesting to see/hear what you find.:nod:

As for re-sampling, does DPP (excuse the ignorance:o) do that?

When you do re-sample, you often have to apply a sharpening filter over the results.
Do your re-sampling using the "Bicubic" option, which is available in most programs.
There are many sharpening methods available, but perhaps try the basic Unsharp Mask
at about 1 pixel radius and about 50%. If that's not enough, try slightly stronger, BUT
L:eek::eek:K OUT for sharpening artifacts, such as speckling, edge haloes, etc.

[Plays With Light]

Careful! Careful! Talking about DPI and pixels can be confusing, as you have indicated, Wanderer.

Alex. I would suggest you tell us how you determined it to be 350 DPI.

Reason: DPI is a printing parameter, whereas Photoshop, DPP, etc, usually only let you adjust the
"pixels per inch/cm". You can only specify DPI at the print stage.

My mistake, I meant PPI and instead typed DPI in response #10 above, making it even more confusing for poor Wanderer!

AM is correct in that DPI is only used at the export stage for printing.

Greatest apologies for adding to your headache, Wanderer, and thanks for picking up the error, AM. :o

[Wanderer]

Thank you both to Plays with Light and ameerat42.
I managed to print the picture at Officeworks this afternoon.
I printed the original picture at 20x30cm (the size that best fits the photo crop) and one that a friend upscaled for me (I presume using resampling in photoshop or similar). I can not tell any difference between the 2 prints! they both turned out pretty much the same (one has ever so slightly more noise than the other). And lucky as I don't know which is which....... the problem with printing the exact same crop! So even at ~140ppi printed at whatever officeworks printed it at looks good to me!
DPP's enlarging did not produce as good a result as the one my friend did with photoshop - far more artifacts.

[ameerat42]

ameerat42 typed "Thanks for this useful post.":D - where a button click just wouldn't do.

[Plays With Light]

Glad it turned out well for you, Wanderer! :nod:

[farmmax]

These days most commercial printing places turn out very respectable prints from low resolution files. The general recommendation is don't try upsizing the photo yourself. Let the printers do it. They have more experience with their equipment.

If the photo is for Perth, the mounting of it is in the Schedule for the show.

Mounting Requirements

1. Prints must have:
MINIMUM visible image size of 20cm x 25cm
MAXIMUM size of 40cm x 50cm, including the mount.
Panoramic prints must have:
MINIMUM visible image size of 20cm
MAXIMUM size of 50cm along the longest border,
including the mount.

2. All prints MUST be mounted on a rigid matt board with
a minimum thickness of 3mm.

3. Mounted prints thickness must not exceed 7mm.
Wood, chipboard, masonite or similar mounts will NOT
be accepted.

4. White or black matts only will be accepted.

If not for Perth, look in the conditions of entry for your show, and see what it says.

I just purchase a sheet of black mat board and cut out a piece large enough for my photo. Office Works may have some, otherwise a picture framing shop. I stick the photo to the mat board with mounting tape. I make the piece of cardboard as large as permitted to give the photo as much border around it as possible. If there are a lot of photos crammed into a small display, this helps separate yours away from the surrounding photos. You can then put a frame of cardboard over this, but I don't bother. If you visit a picture framing shop they should be able to do it for you, if you are not into DIY. Our local shop charges around $15 to put it on the matboard and then add a matboard frame over it.

I can't see any of the flickr links, probably because I'm not signed into flickr in this browser. I can see Am's screenshot with a bee in it, so if that is the one, I'm not surprised it was accepted.

Good luck :th3:

[Wanderer]

Thank you so much Farmmax.
I went to a printing shop yesterday with my photo and they are going to mount it and get it ready for me. It was very reasonably priced I thought for them to print and mount and do the matboard too. I am letting them upsize it and when they showed me on the monitor I was happy with it.
And yes I took the photo off flikr - hence why you can't see my link, but it is the photo above of the blue banded bee and thank you for your encouragement about it.
I am learning a lot through this process that is for sure :)
Appreciate all the support from you all in this and I will keep you posted on how it looks when I pick up the print next week :)

[Wanderer]

Good news - I picked up my mounted print - looks great :) Now to send it in!
Thank you for all your advice :) first ever competition entry done.