Pocket camera

[Tannin]

Despite having a ... let's face it ... rather excessive collection of DSLRs and lenses, one thing I rather miss is a small, inconspicuous camera for (a) slipping into a pocket when I go for a long walk with a big birding lens, just in case I want something shorter than a super-tele, and (b) because you feel like a right dork wandering around a small country town, taking the odd picture of architecture and weird old shops and such, carrying a great big black DSLR like a paparazzi. On a birding walk I usually take a spare body and a general-purpose lens, but it's all weight and bulk and I'm not getting any younger.

Not sure if I'll actually do something about this or just think about it before putting my sadly abused wallet away again, but I'd be interested to hear any thoughts AP members might have about a suitable pocket-size camera.

It would need to be reasonably inexpensive (I can't justify spending a lot on this fairly peripheral want), but something better than a telephone. (In any case, I don't have a smart phone and don't want one.) There are compact APS-C cameras about but they are probably a bit out of my price range. Nor am I keen on going back to the typical very-small-sensor compacts. Possibly something around about the 4/3rds mark might do the trick. No need for interchangeable lenses. Prefer to have a real viewfinder, or at least an EVF. Prefer to have the ability to shoot raw + JPG too.

Any thoughts?

[nardes]

Hi Tony

I have the Canon EOS M3 which I purchased quite cheaply as it seems that no one (in the US) liked them so I got a bargain from B&H.

Although the current models (M5 & M6) are probably outside your price range, I thought that I'd mention that having the same Canon Menus and Interfaces between DSLR and Mirrorless has been very useful. The EOS MX series also shots RAW with the M5 having a built in EVF (= almost small DSLR size) and the M6 having a very expensive add-on EVF.

I find the M3 quite pocketable and it delivers excellent picture quality. It also uses all my Canon lenses, speedlites, extenders, wireless flash transmitters, etc.

Cheers

Dennis

[Tannin]

Thanks Dennis. Those are very good points you make.

I hadn't thought about flash and so on, nor considered the learning curve with different controls and things. However I can't imagine wanting flash and the like given that I have various and assorted DSLRs.

I was originally thinking MX, but two things have made me look elsewhere. (a) I unexpectedly have a spare Canon DSLR body doing pretty much nothing (the 7D which turned out to be repairable) so the notion of having the MX as an emergency spare for outback trips loses its point. And (b) every time I look at the MX range, I keep finding a nice feature I would like if I go up just one model higher, and just one more, and just ... Suddenly I'm looking way over $1000 for a low priority occasional-use tool, so I get an attack of parsimony and decide not to buy one at all!


I spent some time today reading up on the Olympus Tough TG-5 today. Much smaller sensor than I had in mind, no viewfinder at all, dearer than a Canon M3 or M10, but very small and neat, and practically indestructable: you can use it underwater, drop it onto concrete from head-high, store it in the freezer if you wish. http://www.steves-digicams.com/camera-reviews/olympus/tg-5/olympus-tough-tg-5-review.html Don't know that I need all that, but interesting. (Possibly they will do a cheaper version without all the extras I don't need, such as wi-fi and GPS.)

I'll keep looking. Last time I bought a compact camera it was a whopping, state-of-the-art 5MP Canon Powershot. That was 2004.

[nardes]

Hi Tony

What seduced me into the Canon EOS M3 purchase, were the irresistible twin pillars of the low cost from B&H and that I would only use it infrequently, so familiarity with the Canon menu systems was a big factor. I've owned a Canon G11 & S110 (RAW) and their D30 (JPG only) and the EOS M3 really does blow these out of the water in terms of IQ which is not unexpected given the APS-C sized sensor.

The TG-5 looks like a excellent action camera and offers more advanced technology (4K video, etc.) than the Canon EOS M3 and looks to be indestructible too:th3: ; I would be tempted with this as a replacement for my aging Canon D30 for a "tough" camera although once again, I still hanker after that comforting familiarity with the Canon menus and inter-operability with my other Canon accessories. Sigh, it seems I am locked into the "Canon way"...:)

Cheers

Dennis

[arthurking83]

Probably one of the best/better little pocketables I've seen.used(only a little, but I didn't mind it) was the Fuji x100 type thing.
Fixed 23mm lens(35mm equivalent). decent controls. the EVF back then was pretty useless, but I'd reckon the newer models are better in this regard.
The remote ovf was fairly good, except for the parallax error closer in.

But (the important point here) is that it fit nicely into the pocket(too small for the hand tho) .. and images up to insane ISO numbers were all very good/usable.

Otherwise if you're looking for more pocketable than the fuji, then you'd want something like a Panasonic GF8 type device ... I think about the smallest you can get with interchangeable lenses.
Panasonic make their GX85 model with interchangeable lens for a decent price(~$600ish with a small zoom lens) has an EVF at least. I reckon the extra $50 or so of the GX85 over the GF8(with no vf at all) is worth it. But of course the GF8 is much smaller to boot .. hence more pocketable.

I'd say the Fuji would be the 'more ideal' type simply for it's EVF/OVF switchability. That way you're not fully reliant on the EVF which quickly kills batteries when you just want a quick snap .. use the OVF(even taking into account it's deficiencies).


Back in the old days, when I used my Nikon EM and or Miranda, I used to take an old 'pocketable' Rollei 35(lens twists and pops in/out) .. and makes for a packet of cigarette sized little pocketable. Awesome little thing that was so handy, I eventually stopped using the EM (I lost the Miranda!) and relied only on the little Rollei.



Many reviews heap lots of praise on the Sony Rx100V(and preceding models) .. but "holy bottomless money pits batman" .. they are horrendously expensive ~$1500!!
They do have a large 1" sensor(bigger than m4/3rds but slightly smaller than APS-C ... but I still can't see $1.5K's worth of value in those little metal bodies.

Again the biggest issue will be the EVF wasting precious battery resources, although the Sony does have a built in pop out EVF if that's important to you(it was to me back when I researched for one too).

As for which to get .. sorry can't help. I didn't get one in the end simply because it's all too confusing to balance size/features/etc and get the correct device. If I really need one, I can use my daughters old Samsung compact I guess.

(but having used the Fuji, I did like it's high ISO quality .. so maybe one day .. dunno .. it's a lot of money to spend on the wrong thing .. so I procrastinate further and get more DSLR stuff .. and now I'm thhinking the update to the D800 may be a better way to waste money that will delay the need of a pocketable compact again .. I should just get a few rolls of film for the Rollei again ... did I mention how confusing it all becomes ... unless you're ok with compromising on something :D)

[jim]

I spent some time today reading up on the Olympus Tough TG-5 today. Much smaller sensor than I had in mind, no viewfinder at all, dearer than a Canon M3 or M10, but very small and neat, and practically indestructable: you can use it underwater, drop it onto concrete from head-high, store it in the freezer if you wish

I was going to say: Use a phone like everybody else. Sheesh! But actually a really tough waterproof compact would be very useful once Songkran rolls around again. And elsewhere too, maybe. "Ni! We're getting another camera!"


"Ouch!"

[Geoff79]

I know you don't want to hear it, Tony, but for what you describe there (more or less all but the raw format option) I cannot tell you the amount of memories I've been able to capture with my iPhone that would otherwise have been lost in time.

I've had Samsung, Sony (Xperia was terrible), Nokia (quite a while back) and even the iPhone 4 and prior was awful too... but I've had many where I just plain opted not to take photos as the results were too poor.

At the moment I have the iPhone se and my wife the latest iPhone (6 or 7?) and using either, I am consistently pleased with the results. For what it is.

Aside from taking a pretty decent "normal" photo, my favourite functions are the burst function (essential with two young kids), HDR function (which is not HDR as I imagine it. It acts more as a glare/highlight thief than a function that produces unreal "overcooked" images), and the panoramic function (despite my constantly wobbly hands).

I guess the main thing is it's essentially "free" if you're paying for phone/data usage already anyway. And I believe my wife's current model iPhone is also waterproof for a short distance.

Anyway, I know you stipulated you didn't want a phone, but I was just reading your opening post thinking how ideal, and compact and "cheap" and perfect for your needs (minus the raw option) it is. [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[John King]

They do have a large 1" sensor(bigger than m4/3rds but slightly smaller than APS-C ... but I still can't see $1.5K's worth of value in those little metal bodies.



Arthur, you might want to check this statement out ... but:

http://photoseek.com/wp-content/uploads/Sensor-sizes_PhotoSeek.jpg

[Glen1]

For what it's worth, I bought an Olympus OM-D EM10 with 14-42 lens when I was after a "compact" camera. It's so bloody good I often leave my Pentax K5 II and collection of lenses at home. And it's still compact enough to be unobtrusive.
Regards

[Tannin]

Geoff, just one problem with your idea: I don't have a smartphone. (Nor do I want one.) Other than that, it makes good sense.

[Geoff79]

Geoff, just one problem with your idea: I don't have a smartphone. (Nor do I want one.) Other than that, it makes good sense.

Yet. ;)

You've not a smartphone... yet.

To be honest, I was the last person of everyone I knew who got a phone. I hate phones, and I hate talking to people on phones. I make 4 or 5 calls a year, and they're all to my wife... Phones are in no way shape or form "my thing," and I especially hated the Iphone trend too.

But I have to admit, after caving in somewhere along the way, I'm completely on board now. The first and most important thing I always looked at when getting a phone was the camera, and finally having one with a decent one, it's just opened the door to the good times. Like I said above, great memories have been captured, but also, I've just captured some cool images along the way that I'd never have captured, just because I've had a decent camera with me at opportune times.

I truly understand your resistance because it was me not too long ago, but jeez they're convenient. You do have a mobile phone, I assume? Out of curiosity, what about the smartphone displeases you most?

[nardes]

Our lifestyle does not require the use of a mobile 'phone so we have never had one; the old fashioned land line meets our communication needs.:)

Cheers

Dennis

[feathers]

I have the sony RX 100 lV. Very happy with images for street work and closeup's. Was a bit dear, but very well built.

[Tannin]

Good for you, Dennis!

Geoff, I have so many computers already that I have to stop and count them before I can tell you how many "many" is. Er ... two laptops, a netbook, a tablet, and three desktops. That's six, not counting the tablet which is a pretty brainless thing after all compared to the real ones. I have spent 40 years owning computers, and 30 years working professionally on them. The last thing I need is another damn computer.

My granny phone is far superior to any smart phone. It's small and light, it cost practically nothing, it has actual keys that really move and feel nice, and they are large keys that I can use without needing my glasses and even if my fingers are cold and clumsy, and it always works because the battery charge lasts an entire week.

But that's not all. It's pleasantly simple to operate (you might think that someone who enjoys programming would not value simplicity, but actually the reverse applies - good programming is all about the search for simplicity), and on the security side of things it is completely unhackable - to hack into a system, the system has to have enough brain to hack. Trying to hack or infect a proper dumbphone is like trying to seduce and morally corrupt a cabbage.

All smartphones spy on you 24 hours a day. You never own the phone, it doesn't serve you, it serves a giant American corporation which tracks all your movements and records everything you do, from where you shop to what websites you visit, everything. It is all harvested - without your consent and in most people's cases without even their knowledge - and recorded and used to build an ever-more comprehensive secret file on you and all your habits. There are no two ways about it: Google is evil, and Google's power is ever-increasing. The only other choice worth mentioning, Apple, is worse.

Finally, dumb phones don't do the dumb stuff. When not-too-brights send those annoying phone messages with pictures and lord knows what else in them, my dumb phone shows how smart it actually is by simply ignoring the lot. FFS, I've got six computers, send it in an email you clowns!

Oh, and they are also quite useful for making phone calls. :)

[Nick Cliff]

The Olympus TG cameras are great for underwater photography and good enough out of the water in the hands of competent photographers, and I would imagine for many people it is as good as they need with kids on the beach and sand flying around the place you just wash the camera under a tap or in the water, no stress at all:)
My daughter has the TG2 and has used it extensively for underwater use and travel and it is a nice unobtrusive camera that gets used and not left at home.
If curious check out this album of photos taken with the TG2,
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8688/16884450217_741ab8f18c_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rJ2dND)View of One Tree Island on the Great Barrier Reef. (https://flic.kr/p/rJ2dND) by Nick Cliff (https://www.flickr.com/photos/126962485@N05/), on Flickr
cheers Nick

[Geoff79]

Good for you, Dennis!

Geoff, I have so many computers already that I have to stop and count them before I can tell you how many "many" is. Er ... two laptops, a netbook, a tablet, and three desktops. That's six, not counting the tablet which is a pretty brainless thing after all compared to the real ones. I have spent 40 years owning computers, and 30 years working professionally on them. The last thing I need is another damn computer.

My granny phone is far superior to any smart phone. It's small and light, it cost practically nothing, it has actual keys that really move and feel nice, and they are large keys that I can use without needing my glasses and even if my fingers are cold and clumsy, and it always works because the battery charge lasts an entire week.

But that's not all. It's pleasantly simple to operate (you might think that someone who enjoys programming would not value simplicity, but actually the reverse applies - good programming is all about the search for simplicity), and on the security side of things it is completely unhackable - to hack into a system, the system has to have enough brain to hack. Trying to hack or infect a proper dumbphone is like trying to seduce and morally corrupt a cabbage.

All smartphones spy on you 24 hours a day. You never own the phone, it doesn't serve you, it serves a giant American corporation which tracks all your movements and records everything you do, from where you shop to what websites you visit, everything. It is all harvested - without your consent and in most people's cases without even their knowledge - and recorded and used to build an ever-more comprehensive secret file on you and all your habits. There are no two ways about it: Google is evil, and Google's power is ever-increasing. The only other choice worth mentioning, Apple, is worse.

Finally, dumb phones don't do the dumb stuff. When not-too-brights send those annoying phone messages with pictures and lord knows what else in them, my dumb phone shows how smart it actually is by simply ignoring the lot. FFS, I've got six computers, send it in an email you clowns!

Oh, and they are also quite useful for making phone calls. :)

Lol. Point made.

We can safely cross an iPhone off the list for you.

I still love my little rectangle friend, though. [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tannin]

Oh, just one more thing. My granny phone doesn't spam forums with advertising tag-lines. :ps:

[Ross the fiddler]

I bought myself an Olympus Stylus 1 a few years ago with 10.5 X zoom using a constant f2.8 lens & it can fit in a coat pocket with its design similar to the E-M10 (& same EVF) but with the lens collapsing back in to itself. My daughter uses it mostly now but I also bought another for my wife (the 1s model). It takes reasonable pictures for a lot of occasions with a small pop-up flash for indoor use if needed & can fire up to 7 fps (with a leaf shutter).
Here's just a couple of photos using it (& many more in my 4/3's user gallery (http://fourthirds-user.com/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/page/6/ppuser/3852))
http://fourthirds-user.com/galleries/data/501/S2027043-s.jpg (http://fourthirds-user.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/29486)
http://fourthirds-user.com/galleries/data/509/S7146079-s.jpg (http://fourthirds-user.com/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/29465)

[Geoff79]

Oh, just one more thing. My granny phone doesn't spam forums with advertising tag-lines. :ps:

I have no idea what you mean by that.

Sent from my Land Line Phone using wires and telegraph poles, pigeons, phone lines and other vintage things of which I have no knowledge of ;)