Interesting conversation

[Bercy]

Was speaking with a professional photographer. What irks her is when people have $10,000 DSLR's and the program is permanently glued to auto!! It certainly wasn't gear envy, but almost pity, that the true potential of the equipment would never be realized for want of even a little bit of training. Oh well - just because you can afford a Ferrari doesn't qualify you to drive one. Had me thinking though, how often do I really think about what my camera is doing, but rather hope that by blitzing away it will be stunning photography. Do you think "photographically" applying knowledge and training and experience into seamless motion? I'm jealous!!

[ameerat42]

Lucky she's not often irked, then:D I can't imagine too many people
who would do that. - Drive a Ferrari in Auto.:eek:

[ricktas]

Hand them a film camera and tell them they have 24 shots only...:D

[Glenda]

Hand them a film camera and tell them they have 24 shots only...:D

And, then have to wait to see their results, and no chimping.

I asked another tourist with a Nikon D810 to take our photo when we were in Bosnia. Figured he would know what he was doing. The results proved he didn't have a clue and I had set it up - all he had to do was focus and hold the damn camera straight.

[Warbler]

Even the Pro cameras are getting more and more automated these days anyway. Being able to choose auto ISO and a minimum shutter speed in manual mode and an EV is an example. Is it still manual, and if it isn't, who really cares as long as it gets the job done.

[Bercy]

Appreciate the above insights - and it gets back to whether we actually understand what the device is doing, and then as Warbler said - does it matter. Consider modern aircraft - the pilots are almost entirely reliant of automated systems. The old school pilots that can see what's going on, feels what's going on - are becoming rare. Same photographically. I received some photos taken on a Samsung phone, perfectly exposed, pin sharp, beautiful. I looked more closely and felt them somewhat unnatural, and I guess they were over sharpened by the internal algorithms, and the colours renders to what we like to see. I still take a roll of 120 and take some pictures on Pentax medium format. Next I'll be wanting to see live bands!!

[Hamster]

I can't believe the lack of attention people pay to the operation of their camera. I'm pretty expert now so I know that "P" is the mode if I want pro quality shots, "Av" is for average every day shots and "Tv" is for the tat I reserve for FB. I'm pretty old school in the field too. I choose an ISO before I go out and I limit myself to 36 shots max. I never look at the image on the screen after taking it, that's for newbies.
When back at home I have a special room for processing. I turn out the lights so it's completely black, and then I transfer the memory card from the camera to the computer. I slowly raise the brightness on the screen, because I think there's something magical about seeing an image materialize before your eyes, and seeing for the first time how effective that P setting has been. Then it's just a case of hitting print and mailing it off to National Geographic.
Now I know that's some pretty advanced stuff right there, but I can't see why people can't take the effort to learn. Maybe start with the "M" (this means Manageable) but at least aspire to progressing through to Professional.

[ameerat42]

---:D---

[Mark L]

... - and it gets back to whether we actually understand what the device is doing, and then as Warbler said - does it matter.
And I think what Warbler said actually implies you still need to know how best to use the technology you have in your hands.
I won't touch auto ISO but at least I know it's available to me.:)

Are there really that many people buying $10,000 DSLR's that don't have a bit of an idea about photography??:confused013
And for those that do buy, why would a professional photographer be irked. Let them take what they think are good photos and the ones that irk them can do what they please.:confused013

[Warbler]

I can't believe the lack of attention people pay to the operation of their camera. I'm pretty expert now so I know that "P" is the mode if I want pro quality shots, "Av" is for average every day shots and "Tv" is for the tat I reserve for FB. I'm pretty old school in the field too. I choose an ISO before I go out and I limit myself to 36 shots max. I never look at the image on the screen after taking it, that's for newbies.
When back at home I have a special room for processing. I turn out the lights so it's completely black, and then I transfer the memory card from the camera to the computer. I slowly raise the brightness on the screen, because I think there's something magical about seeing an image materialize before your eyes, and seeing for the first time how effective that P setting has been. Then it's just a case of hitting print and mailing it off to National Geographic.
Now I know that's some pretty advanced stuff right there, but I can't see why people can't take the effort to learn. Maybe start with the "M" (this means Manageable) but at least aspire to progressing through to Professional.


Did you use manual focus? If you didn't, you're a pussy.:D

[MattNQ]

Didn't think pro cameras had an auto setting? I'm only using an ancient D3, but haven't found a fully auto setting yet. Must be hidden?..Unless you're referring to the semi-automatic programs like aperture priority, shutter priority etc?
All settings are effectively different tools. Shoot sports on a day with changing light...aperture priority works best. Wanting to get prop blur on a plane or panning racecars,... Shutter priority is probably your preference.
Landscape I always go full manual for full control. Horses for courses.
I'm don't feel less of a photographer if I shoot an entire athletics carnival on aperture priority. No-one really cares if it wasn't full manual and if I paid more attention to capturing the moment than worrying what my settings are doing
If a photographic gumby wants to pay canikony $10k and utilise the many inbuilt smarts they are paying for, so be it.
Yes we can chuckle at their ineptitude, but them buying top of the range gear keeps the camera companies in business and the rest of us- The Great Unwashed can afford their second hand bodies when they get rid of them with only 5000 actuations... :)
Keep them buying big I say!


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[Hamster]

Did you use manual focus? If you didn't, you're a pussy.:D

:D

Sure. But I don't use the focus ring, I hold the lens in front of the body and adjust the lens to sensor distance to get things in focus. It takes some getting used to but I find it gives my shots a unique feel. The guys at the camera club joke with me, and call my shots blurred, but I know they're just jealous that they can't get the same moodiness. ;)

[ameerat42]

What an interesting compendium it would make: A Phousand Photographic Pheats - by Hamster.

[Warbler]

:D
It takes some getting used to but I find it gives my shots a unique feel.;)

Don't know how to use Live View? See, that's where you're going wrong....;)

[MattNQ]

:D

Sure. But I don't use the focus ring, I hold the lens in front of the body and adjust the lens to sensor distance to get things in focus. It takes some getting used to but I find it gives my shots a unique feel. The guys at the camera club joke with me, and call my shots blurred, but I know they're just jealous that they can't get the same moodiness. ;)

You sir are a master of the craft. Ignore those traditionalist naysayers who would cast nasturtiums on your work.

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[Hamster]

Thanks guys, I knew those people at the club were just envious. I can't use live view Warbler, as I've taped over my LCD. Like I say, 36 shots and no checking. If the view finder was good enough for Ansell Adams it's good enough for me. If I'm really in the zone I channel the creativity through my third eye. But that's a really advanced pheat that few master.


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[MattNQ]

Are there really that many people buying $10,000 DSLR's that don't have a bit of an idea about photography??
A 10k Leica turns dentists into photographers does it not?
Snap a homeless person, traffic light on an angle and an out of focus discarded newspaper and you have a gallery of street art to be proud of :)





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[wayn0i]

I can't believe the lack of attention people pay to the operation of their camera. I'm pretty expert now so I know that "P" is the mode if I want pro quality shots, "Av" is for average every day shots and "Tv" is for the tat I reserve for FB. I'm pretty old school in the field too. I choose an ISO before I go out and I limit myself to 36 shots max. I never look at the image on the screen after taking it, that's for newbies.
When back at home I have a special room for processing. I turn out the lights so it's completely black, and then I transfer the memory card from the camera to the computer. I slowly raise the brightness on the screen, because I think there's something magical about seeing an image materialize before your eyes, and seeing for the first time how effective that P setting has been. Then it's just a case of hitting print and mailing it off to National Geographic.
Now I know that's some pretty advanced stuff right there, but I can't see why people can't take the effort to learn. Maybe start with the "M" (this means Manageable) but at least aspire to progressing through to Professional.

Ok that makes sense i was wondering how i watched Tv through the camera, i tried going + and - channels but no luck.

Sounds like i need to start at "M"


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[Bercy]

So I saw Mark Knoffler play that guitar and I say to myself, I'm gonna play like that. So I fork out big bucks for a serious red guitar and amplifier, just like he has. So a friend comes over and says "Man what a cool guitar! Play some thing". So I put on my bandana on and strap in the guitar. Turn the amp on full and make all the right moves. "Man that sounds like shit", says friend.

Crap guitar. I gotta get me a better one....

[ameerat42]

So I saw Mark Knoffler play that guitar and I say to myself, I'm gonna play like that. So I fork out big bucks for a serious red guitar and amplifier, just like he has. So a friend comes over and says "Man what a cool guitar! Play some thing". So I put on my bandana on and strap in the guitar. Turn the amp on full and make all the right moves. "Man that sounds like shit", says friend.

Crap guitar. I gotta get me a better one....


...So you got RIFFED-off?:p:p

[arthurking83]

.... What irks her is when people have $10,000 DSLR's and the program is permanently glued to auto!! It certainly wasn't gear envy, but almost pity, that the true potential of the equipment would never be realized for want of even a little bit of training. ....

I have to be honest here and say I think her line of thinking there is misplaced!

The difference in the potential of a specific brand/model of camera used in any specific mode will have no bearing on the actual difference in quality of the outcome of that image!

I can't see how or why it can .. other than the user monumentally stuffing up the important settings.

Settings that can and will have an impact on the potential of the final outcome are metering set and image quality type used.

But:

if Joe Average shoots an image with his D3 and has camera set to Auto(OK, silly example as this camera has no Auto setting as such! .. but that's besides the point!) and the exposure is captured OK, this is no different to Jane Uberpro capturing the same image with her slightly lesser camera set to M mode and doing everything manually.
As long as the resultant image is captured the same way or even just similarly then what's the difference? :confused013 the same potential that those cameras can produce have been realised!

And as to that (implied)comparison to the Ferrari. also see this one too often too.
Cameras are not Ferrari's, now BMW, nor Holdens or even Tata's!
(unless I've missed something) Their respective methods of operation are diametrically opposed. The outcome of what they do when you operate them is completely dissimilar.
You buy a Ferrari to drive to somewhere(or for some reason). you use a camera to take a photo. I can't ever recall driving a camera illegally along some roads.

I think that if you can afford to buy(or simply just drive) a Ferrari, then of course you are 'qualified' to drive one.
There's no legal restriction on the allowance to drive a Ferrari(other than for any legal P plate type license restrictions!) .. but if I could afford one then why would I not be qualified to drive one?
(BTW: the question is rhetorical, as even if I could afford one, I'd never buy one .. I'm more of a Porsche type rather than Ferrari type).

In fact: almost all the cars currently on the road(legally) owned by almost all of the folks at the moment are currently not being used to their full potential almost all of the time .. yet we allow this to happen without comment?
I hardly ever drive my current car to it's full potential, and I prefer it that way.
It wears out less, the types wear is reduced, fuel consumption is lower, cost of ownership is lower .. etc.
Why on earth would I do that(use my car to it's full potential) any time, let alone most of the time ... the notion of it is ludicrous(not to mention illegal and mostly dangerous).

And then we have the "other hand" .. as in OTOH .. how does Jane Uberpro know that those folks that have $10K uber cameras don't actually occasionally use them in uber pro mode. Does she stalk them? :p

On another forum one member began a discussion that related to mere amateur types owning full on 200-400/4 pro quality lenses, when something more consumerish(ie. 200-500/5.6) would have easily sufficed.
He went on to assume that this Joe Average he briefly chatted too probably skimped on saving a little more for his kid's college fund or something like that.

I can't help but wonder why we(in general) have to be so judgemental about stuff that matters not one iota to ourselves?

ps. I'm with MattNQ too .. if they can afford them let them. When they realise they can't use them(or simply lose interest in the gear) they offload it at reasonable prices where we pros can take advantage of their inability to understand their own needs!


Sorry for the long arduous post, but I wanted to share a (hopefully) quick story too.
A few years ago brother came to me asking which camera to get:

Bro: I want to get a DSLR, which one.
AK83: get a Sony(I think) A6000 and a couple of lenses
Bro: (had a quick look at one) Sony looks a bit small!
AK83: that's why I told you to get one!
Bro: Nah! I want a DSLR, I want good quality for the big trip.
AK83: get a Sony A(whatever) plus two lenses then.
Bro: why do you have a DSLR(actually I had 3, but beside the point! :p)
AK83: you don't want a DSLR, you want a good capable camera that isn't a phone!
Bro: that's why I want a DSLR.
AK83: I knew you were an idiot, now all you're doing is proving it to me.
Bro: went a bought a Nikon D5100.(my advice to him only if he didn't get the Sony)

:rolleyes:

follow up to that story from comments made a few weeks ago
Bro: Why did you convince me to get a DSLR all those years ago for my trip. I hardly ever use it, and find the phone more convenient
AK83: the older you get the more idiotic you become! I think you don't use it much now because you didn't get the Pentax 645 like I told you too!
(he knows nothing about cameras or what a 645D is/was, so it went straight over his head).