Is there anybody out there ???

[Cage]

After looking at these shots from the Hubble Telescope on the NASA website, I think it is more than a remote possibility, like a trillion°°.

https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/goddard/2016/hubble-views-a-colorful-demise-of-a-sun-like-star

But it is also a possibility that life on our little speck may be the beginning. How scary is that thought, given that we are doing our utmost to stuff it up. :eek:

[ameerat42]

I agree. - On all counts!

(Edit after your edit.) Oops! You added something. Nah. I don't think it's that bad.

[John King]

Kev, check out the Drake Equation here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

It's really a dead cert that there must be intelligent life in the Universe. After all, it is really, really, REALLY BIG ...

[Cage]

It's really a dead cert that there must be intelligent life in the Universe. After all, it is really, really, REALLY BIG ...

And for "After all, it is really, really, REALLY BIG ...", substitute 'INFINITE' :nod:

When one allows the mind to consider the infinite, all, and every computation, is probable. John, it is not inconceivable that you and I could be having this discourse at an infinite number of locations.

PS: re Drake's Equation: In my tiny mind I can't quite work out how you can quantify the infinite.

[ameerat42]

And for "After all, it is really, really, REALLY BIG ...", substitute 'INFINITE' :nod:

When one allows the mind to consider the infinite, all, and every computation, is probable. John, it is not inconceivable that you and I could be having this discourse at an infinite number of locations.

And instead of "infinite", substitute "Finite but unbounded":D - Or so I've heard.

Anyway, it's academic. Recall the "Infinite Improbability Drive" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCf53ses22w):nod:

[John King]

I am of the opinion, based on logic and belief, that the Universe is infinite in both space and time.

I have serious difficulties with the 'bounded universe' that is implicit (and sometimes explicit) in the big bang theory. The latter also makes little sense to me mathematically on several levels.

Other theories (plasma, 'tired' light, etc) make more sense to me in that they accord better with the facts as observed rather than forcing the facts to conform to some preconceived mathematical model.

[ameerat42]

We just dunno, John. I doubt we will ever "know". It would be illogical to actually "know"
the "nature of the universe". To do so, you'd need to be standing outside "it". So there's
the problem. Bad enough we already have an expression "the universe"! Ridiculous, actually!
So it's a lot of arm-waving for now:confused013:confused013:confused013 :D

[John King]

Quite. We're on the same wavelength, I suspect ... :nod:.

[arthurking83]

Is there anybody out there??? ....

As Inspector Clouseau would say .. Not any more!

.. well at least not orbiting NGC 2440 now!


.. oh! maybe it's just me, but I can never understand this NEED to search for intelligent life 'out there'!

Let's turn the telescopes 180° and search for it here on this planet first!

[martycon]

If no others are there, what a great opportunity to do it repeat our exploitation on a grander scale!

[John King]

^ Dolphins ...

Perhaps the occasional ape-descended, brachiating ape?

:rolleyes: :D

[Mark L]

We live here now and who's out there doesn't really matter.
Can we preserve our here for a bit later than know, and who's out there doesn't really matter.

[Steve Axford]

I disagree. I think it would make a huge difference if we found evidence of other intelligent life. Think of all the human-centric theories that would be brought into question. It would direct our thoughts outward instead of the inward looking selfishness that seems to consume us at times. It would make us realise that we really don't matter all that much - unless we do things that would make us matter to the universe as a whole.

[arthurking83]

..... It would make us realise that we really don't matter all that much - unless we do things that would make us matter to the universe as a whole.

The problem is going to be what we do to make our existence in the universe 'matter'.

With history as a guide and with a high degree of certainly, our impact in the universe would be to the detriment of the rest of place.

* Without doubt, the missionaries would be out there trying to convert newly discovered indigenous civilisations to some lunatic montheistic belief systems.
* Our captains of industry would seek to increase ownership of everything, to the detriment of those same indigenous peoples.
* .. and almost everyone else would probably see them as new fodder for whatever illegal and immoral activities they currently partake in!

on reflection, maybe our search for extra terrestrial intelligent life isn't such a great idea when viewed from an external point of view! ;)

[Steve Axford]

Arthur, I guess that would assume that we are more advanced than any discovered intelligent life. But, what if we weren't? That would give us some serious reason to reevaluate. And the discover of any intelligent life, would imply that there was more, and that it was inevitable that some of those more would be more advanced than we were.
It would also mean that if we destroyed ourselves, then - so what? We would know with absolute certainty that all we were was a bit of genetic diversity, and look at how we scorn that.

[ameerat42]

The BORG will soon invade and ASSIMILATE us all. :eek:
Speculation is futile (pronounce "futile" as "foo-tle":nod:).

[arthurking83]

Arthur, I guess that would assume that we are more advanced than any discovered intelligent life. But, what if we weren't? That would give us some serious reason to reevaluate. ....

Even if any discovered life were more advanced .. that wouldn't necessarily constitute corrupt attitude as well!
I live in hope that advancement doesn't need to follow corrupt practices .. and that whatever other intelligent life out there isn't so inclined.

But there's always the possibility that these advanced ETs may provide shared knowledge to our civilisation, oblivious to the fact that our leaders are basically all corrupt in some way or another.

So for our sake, we can really only pray that they're not as corrupt as we are, or worse.
We need to tread carefully as to how intelligent we want our ETs to be ;)

[Steve Axford]

We need to tread carefully as to how intelligent we want our ETs to be ;)
I doubt we'll get a say it :)

p.s. Arthur, I detect a certain disillusionment with our politicians. It does vary, and if we just say all politicians are corrupt, then that leaves us open to the likes of Donald Trump (or an Australian version thereof). If they are all as bad as each other, then why not have a Donald?

[arthurking83]

I reckon it'd be nice to know what 'our leaders' contingency plans are when it goes a bit further south than they expected, once some/any contact is finally established.

I think contact will be inevitable, the chances are highly unlikely that we are the only intelligent life forms in the galaxy, let alone the universe.

The problem arises if the ETs are more Klingon like, rather than Vulcan like(if you know what I mean).

Everyone concerns themselves with burden our children may have to bear due to the consequences of this so called global warming, when the real threat could be something from left field ... like 'first contact'.

[Cage]

As I said in my original post "But it is also a possibility that life on our little speck may be the beginning. How scary is that thought, given that we are doing our utmost to stuff it up."

OK, the odds are infinitely against that possibility, but, it is still a possibility, however remote. That possibility concerns me.

[Steve Axford]

Probably smart to tackle the problems you know you have rather than to assume that some other problem will come along to save you (or destroy you, so that the first problem didn't really matter)

[arthurking83]

Probably smart to tackle the problems you know you have rather than to assume that some other problem will come along to save you (or destroy you, so that the first problem didn't really matter)

Of course! That goes without saying

.. and I'm sure the people of Pompeii and Herculaneum way back in 79AD all thought the same thing until they stopped worrying about .. well everything!

And Kev, I agree totally with what you think too .. most scary prospect is that we are the the most advanced(and by default) intelligent crew in the galaxy as it stands.
What hope for the rest of the galaxy when we do make contact.

[Cage]

Humankind, whether we like it, or accept it, has governance over this tiny, rather insignificant in the overall scheme of things, rock we call Planet Earth.

What we actually live on is a lump of semi- molten rock that has cooled enough on the outside to sustain what we call 'life'. According to those that profess to know these things, the radioactivity in the mantle gives us a shelf life of 700+ million years and the sun's useful life is in the billions of years.

I wonder if the gurus have done the math on how much we can dig up and burn before we put our little rock out of kilter, and we spiral off into space like a balloon does when you blow it up and let it go. :confused013

[Mark L]

Arthur, I guess that would assume that we are more advanced than any discovered intelligent life. But, what if we weren't? That would give us some serious reason to reevaluate.
Good to see you back Steve.
And we will decide what is intelligent and the circumstances of who comes to this earth. No need to reevaluate.
I suspect you ascribe more smarts to us humans than we are showing at the moment.

[ameerat42]

Mark. We can always send them to the moon, or to some asteriod.
Of course, even if they qualify for resident alien status, they won't be
allowed to settle here. Maybe a 3rd world can take them.

In fact, they'd be smart not to come here in the first place.

Hmm! From their patent absence from this planet, I'd say they're quite smart.:(

[arthurking83]

.....

Hmm! From their patent absence from this planet, I'd say they're quite smart.:(

:D

Actually! Has anyone seen a movie called District 9?
it's a South African movie(and hence makes for an interesting piece in itself as it's not from bloody Hollywood! :p) .. anyhow, it's about an alien spaceship that gets stranded here(in Sth Africa) and how they get treated and stuff.

It's not great, but also not bad .. so it's worth a watch if you ever stumble across it.

[MEK]

There is life everywhere !
And just what is intelligent life ( The 64 Billion dollar question )

Think about this for a moment :

Dogs can understands us / Dolphins can understand us / monkeys of all sorts / whales and it's a rather long list of animals that learn to understand human language to some extent !

Funny thing though ! We humans are yet to learn any animal language . So if animals are smart enough to say learn a limited amount of English , why are humans not smart enough to learn a limited amount of Dog , or cat , or dolphin , or monkey , or and the list goes on !

Im not saying we need to speak , Im talking about understanding ( Listening skill ) .
So there is the quandary , if we are supposedly so smart , why is there so much evidence to refute that ?

My point being ( long last ) .
Are we smart enough to recognize intelligent life if we were to stumble across it ?
And if life out there is like way ahead of us , whats to say they don't see us as anything more than a plague of pests on this planet .
Much like we may view a rabbit plague .

What is that saying , intelligent is as intelligent does . ( The human race does so much to refute the intelligent part )