Which Lens(es) for trip to Europe

[Doc63]

Hi All,

I know this question has probably been asked many times before, but I’ll ask it again anyway.

I will be heading off to Europe on one of those 29 day tours where you spend a couple of days in each country, seeing all of the major attractions. I imagine there will be lots of cathedrals, castles, museums, landscapes etc to see & photograph.

I would like, if possible, to take only one lens with me, two at the most. I don’t want to be spending too much time changing lenses, as it’s a pretty full on tour, and I don’t really want to miss out on the actual experience worrying about whether I have the right lens on or not. I won’t be taking a tripod.

I have a EF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS STM, but I’m not sure that is wide enough. I will be using a Canon 70D.

I was thinking of the following lenses;
Canon 10-18mm EF-S f/4.5-5.6 IS STM
Canon 10-22mm EF-S f/3.5-4.5 USM
Tamron SP AF 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5 Di II LD

Of these, only the 10-18 has image stabilisation, but also has the shortest range. I’m also not sure how suitable they are indoors, especially as there will be places where flash in not allowed.

I was originally thinking of just taking a Tamron AF 16-300mm F3.5-6.3 VC PZD, but again, I don’t think it will be wide enough.

So, if anyone can give me some advice, it would be very much appreciated.

Regards

Neil

[ameerat42]

Neil. What do intend to photograph?

In all my trips to various places there, I have found long telephoto to be the least used.
That 18-135 sounds like it might be useful for most of what I can think of: landscape,
street scenes, people shots... At a pinch you can fit in some interiors of buildings.

As for your fear of changing lenses for much time, you may well obviate the need with the
aforementioned lens. However, there will NO DOUBT be the ODD occasion where you will
kick yourself for not taking just a wider lens. Now, which is worse?:D

If you think that you might succumb to a second lens, then IMO the one with IS is it.

Anyway, what if some of your gear breaks down?:eek::eek:

[Doc63]

Neil. What do intend to photograph?

In all my trips to various places there, I have found long telephoto to be the least used.
That 18-135 sounds like it might be useful for most of what I can think of: landscape,
street scenes, people shots... At a pinch you can fit in some interiors of buildings.

As for your fear of changing lenses for much time, you may well obviate the need with the
aforementioned lens. However, there will NO DOUBT be the ODD occasion where you will
kick yourself for not taking just a wider lens. Now, which is worse?:D

If you think that you might succumb to a second lens, then IMO the one with IS is it.

Anyway, what if some of your gear breaks down?:eek::eek:

I imagine that most of the shots I would be taking would be of things like castles & cathedrals, (inside & out) streetscapes, landscapes. Have to admit, I don't know what to expect over there.

I agree about the lens with IS, I was leaning towards that one. And the 18-135 might also come in handy. Both are pretty light, so taking both wont be a burden. I would then have a range of 10-135 across the 2 lenses, on a crop sensor.

[ameerat42]

I agree with your not taking a tripod in this case. Be prepared for some dark interiors, but don't take a separate flash.
Flash photography is quite fr:angry34:ned upon in most places like museums, cathedrals... Worse! Often you can't
take pictures at all!!

Elsewise, keep your gear close. Suspect everybody! Keep away from roving bands of urchins:eek::eek:

[Glenda]

I agree that a big zoom isn't really necessary in Europe. I would however, recommend getting one of the 10mm ones. I have the Nikon 10-24 with a crop sensor and have used it extensively while OS, particularly good for architecture, both exterior and interior and landscapes, especially with strong foreground interest. My 17-50 just wasn't wide enough in a lot of cases for buildings. I usually take a tripod but if you are on a tour you may not have much time to use it anyway. People assume if you have a tripod you are a professional - go figure - so I've used it mainly for landscapes and you'll probably find it isn't allowed in most buildings.

[Gazza]

Just a thought (maybe you've considered it already?), if you're in tight confined spaces and the lens is not wide enough, you can always take a number of images and stitch them together when you get back home.


Allow plenty of overlap, and don't limit yourself to frames side by side.
I've stitched plenty of images together with 3 - 4 frames across the top, 3 - 4 in the middle and another 3 - 4 across the bottom (CC2015.5 handles them easily - :nod:)


No idea how good your memory is, but I start and finish all my stitching sets/projects with a quick snap of my hand over the lens...gives me a bit of a clue for when I get home (my then 'older self' really appreciates it :D)

[John King]

Neil, think about having a relatively wide, relatively fast prime specifically for the insides of buildings and architecture generally. Something like a ~12-15mm f/1.8. As others have said, no flash/no tripods allowed in most of these places. I don't know what's available for your camera around this FL and aperture, but sure to be something good and affordable ...

If you are happy with the overall IQ of your existing 18-55, 70-300, that gives you a three lens kit for almost all eventualities, with minimal lens changing.

[frankoz]

If it were me, I'd take a 18-135mm or longer if you have it say an 18-250mm and keep that on your camera for your everyday lens. Perhaps pack a 10mm fisheye for some funs shots of favourite buildings and then perhaps a 35mm or 50mm bright (say f2.0 or brighter) for some interiors and evening/night shots. A tripod is good if you can pack it without nuisance but lugging it will wear on you quickly. Agree, flash is frowned on in most places because it is intrusive.

Sent from my E6883 using Tapatalk

[Doc63]

I agree that a big zoom isn't really necessary in Europe. I would however, recommend getting one of the 10mm ones. I have the Nikon 10-24 with a crop sensor and have used it extensively while OS, particularly good for architecture, both exterior and interior and landscapes, especially with strong foreground interest. My 17-50 just wasn't wide enough in a lot of cases for buildings. I usually take a tripod but if you are on a tour you may not have much time to use it anyway. People assume if you have a tripod you are a professional - go figure - so I've used it mainly for landscapes and you'll probably find it isn't allowed in most buildings.
Thanks Lplates. I am leaning towards the 10-18mm EF-S f/4.5-5.6 IS STM, it has fairly decent reviews and is not too dear. I think a tripod on this type of tour might be frowned upon.

- - - Updated - - -


Just a thought (maybe you've considered it already?), if you're in tight confined spaces and the lens is not wide enough, you can always take a number of images and stitch them together when you get back home.


Allow plenty of overlap, and don't limit yourself to frames side by side.
I've stitched plenty of images together with 3 - 4 frames across the top, 3 - 4 in the middle and another 3 - 4 across the bottom (CC2015.5 handles them easily - :nod:)


No idea how good your memory is, but I start and finish all my stitching sets/projects with a quick snap of my hand over the lens...gives me a bit of a clue for when I get home (my then 'older self' really appreciates it :D)
I've done that with the camera on a tripod, but not freehand. I think I'd need to practice that first, but its definitely an option to consider.

- - - Updated - - -


Neil, think about having a relatively wide, relatively fast prime specifically for the insides of buildings and architecture generally. Something like a ~12-15mm f/1.8. As others have said, no flash/no tripods allowed in most of these places. I don't know what's available for your camera around this FL and aperture, but sure to be something good and affordable ...

If you are happy with the overall IQ of your existing 18-55, 70-300, that gives you a three lens kit for almost all eventualities, with minimal lens changing.
Canon has a 14mm EF f/2.8L II USM but its over $2,500. Cant see anything else in the Canon range. I was going to leave the 70-300 L home because of the weight.

- - - Updated - - -


If it were me, I'd take a 18-135mm or longer if you have it say an 18-250mm and keep that on your camera for your everyday lens. Perhaps pack a 10mm fisheye for some funs shots of favourite buildings and then perhaps a 35mm or 50mm bright (say f2.0 or brighter) for some interiors and evening/night shots. A tripod is good if you can pack it without nuisance but lugging it will wear on you quickly. Agree, flash is frowned on in most places because it is intrusive.

Sent from my E6883 using Tapatalk
I have come to the conclusion that I would need to also take the 18-135 as well. Canon also have a 18-200, which would give me more reach - not sure how good it is though.

[John King]

Neil, I have just been looking at the prices for what I was recommended. Then had a little rest! Heavens to Murgatroyd!

Are there any decent third party lenses that fit the bill - fast and wide?

[Edit] How about the Samyang f/2.8 10mm here? http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/prod11460.htm

[Doc63]

Neil, I have just been looking at the prices for what I was recommended. Then had a little rest! Heavens to Murgatroyd!

Are there any decent third party lenses that fit the bill - fast and wide?

[Edit] How about the Samyang f/2.8 10mm here? http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/prod11460.htm

LOL!! I must admit, I thought your idea of "good and affordable" was a bit different to mine!.

I hadn't even thought of the Samyang lenses. Looks like I've got a bit more research to do!

Edit: Just looked at the Samyangs - all of them appear to be manual focus.

[J.davis]

I have been to europe a few times with various kits. I think you will be best served with a 10-20 with min 2.8. Even with street scenes, a lot of streets re very narrow and a wide is required.
2.8 is needed inside most older places with very marginal light.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TOKINA-11-16mm-F2-8-AT-X-116-PRO-DX-II-CANON-MOUNT-/231903016815?hash=item35fe7f376f No IS but good wide, have used one in Europe before.
A cheap small tripod is worth putting in your bag http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AU-BEXIN-Travel-Portable-Mini-Tripod-V30-Ball-Head-For-DSLR-Camera-Camcorder-/281749067222?hash=item41998d95d6:g:OfYAAOSwjVVVpMqL There is alweays a bin/chair/bench/bridge railing to put it on.

[Doc63]

I have been to europe a few times with various kits. I think you will be best served with a 10-20 with min 2.8. Even with street scenes, a lot of streets re very narrow and a wide is required.
2.8 is needed inside most older places with very marginal light.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TOKINA-11-16mm-F2-8-AT-X-116-PRO-DX-II-CANON-MOUNT-/231903016815?hash=item35fe7f376f No IS but good wide, have used one in Europe before.
A cheap small tripod is worth putting in your bag http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AU-BEXIN-Travel-Portable-Mini-Tripod-V30-Ball-Head-For-DSLR-Camera-Camcorder-/281749067222?hash=item41998d95d6:g:OfYAAOSwjVVVpMqL There is alweays a bin/chair/bench/bridge railing to put it on.

Yeah, I discovered the Tokina after my original post - yet another option. As you said, no IS though.

[ameerat42]

The theme seems to be departing from the OP's original thoughts, AIUT*: what of my
gear to take. So you buy an 18-200 on the strength that you might need it?? To get
a 50% bigger image? At unknown cost to other factors?

*As I Understand It:p

[Doc63]

The theme seems to be departing from the OP's original thoughts, AIUT*: what of my
gear to take. So you buy an 18-200 on the strength that you might need it?? To get
a 50% bigger image? At unknown cost to other factors?

*As I Understand It:p
No, I think I'll stick with the 18-135 that I already have and get the 10-18. Hopefully, its good enough in low light for what I need.

[phild]

IMHO you have made the right decision in sticking with the 18-135 and matching with a 10-18. I travelled to the UK and Europe in 2014 and took my 15mm fisheye, plus 24-105 on a full frame camera. In my case I was amost always using the wide end of the 24-105 or the fisheye. I didn't want for anything longer and the travel tripod I took was used just once during the whole 7 week period. If you can find one, a crowd filter would be invaluable....:nod:

[Doc63]

IMHO you have made the right decision in sticking with the 18-135 and matching with a 10-18. I travelled to the UK and Europe in 2014 and took my 15mm fisheye, plus 24-105 on a full frame camera. In my case I was amost always using the wide end of the 24-105 or the fisheye. I didn't want for anything longer and the travel tripod I took was used just once during the whole 7 week period. If you can find one, a crowd filter would be invaluable....:nod:

Thanks phild. Yes, the more I research, the more I think the 18-135 and 10-18 is the way to go. And yeah, if I can find a crowd filter on ebay I'm willing to pay top dollar!:nod::nod:

[William W]

I have a EF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS STM, but I’m not sure that is wide enough. I will be using a Canon 70D. I was thinking of the following lenses; Canon 10-18mm EF-S f/4.5-5.6 IS STM . . .

and


I think I'll stick with the 18-135 that I already have and get the 10-18. Hopefully, its good enough in low light for what I need.

I think that you will use the 18 to 135 IS most of the time - I suggest, if you do buy the 10 to 18 then you swap to the 10 to 18 IS, before entering buildings.

*

I travel to Europe regularly. I have particular photographic passions for: (a) interior and exterior architecture; (b) general streetscapes and landscapes; (c) street style reportage portraiture.

I also don’t like carrying a “kit” when I am on holiday - I am not working. I mainly use EOS 5D Series Cameras. By far, over the past four/five years, the main working lens I use in Europe for the purposes I described and the convenience of having only one lens is the EF 24 to 105L F/4 IS USM. Roughly tallied that lens has made close to 95% of the approx 20,000 ‘holiday’ images over the last few years in Europe.

Your description of what you like to photograph is similar to what I have described. My advice is that 24mm (equiv about 15mm of your APS-C Camera) will be sufficiently wide enough for most shooting scenarios that you encounter and certainly 105 (equiv about 65mm of your APS-C Camera) will be long enough. So any good quality zoom lens that gets you from 15 to 70, will do the job for you: but as you seem to want to buy another lens, then the 10 to 18 with IS is an excellent choice.

Note well that if you want to capture interiors / interior architecture, then the more important issue is IMAGE STABILIZATION and that is more important than LENS SPEED. (i.e. Max. Aperture)

You will be better to have the convenience of a zoom and the ability to shoot at around F/4 or F/5.6 at a slower shutter speed, than to be using a faster zoom lens (e.g. F/2.8) or a Prime lens (e.g.F/1.8) and that lens NOT having IS.

I am not keen on Varying Maximum Aperture Zooms – but if you know the pitfalls and especially if you use the camera in Av Mode then just remember to keep an eye on that Shutter Speed.

Personally, I travel with a second camera. I now use a Fuji X100s. But before bought the Fuji I used a late model Canon Powershot. You should consider that - what if the 70D croaks - I also do tend to carry a second lens for my DSLR in case the 24 to 105 dies - and that is a fast 35 Prime, but that is seldom used now I have the Fuji. With what you are doing on a structured tour I think that considering any Prime Lens is a silly option: the 70D will eat up modestly high ISO, if you want to arrest any Subject Movement with a faster Tv and the two lenses that you intend to use.

In some museums, galleries and other venues, backpacks and slingshot camera bags, even small ones, are prohibited, whereas carrying a camera (or two) is not, anyway my Fuji fits into my pocket. I think it would be silly you taking a tripod or a monopod on a bus-style multi-stop tour – such are considered dangerous items (aka ‘possible weapons’) at many venues and as such are prohibited – I usually hire a car, or travel by train and I don’t even think to take a tripod or monopod – I use High ISO; IS; and good Shutter and Camera techniques, instead. If your tour is structured with guides, then they should know what is allowed for you to CARRY into venues.

Here are some examples to show the value of using IS as opposed to shooting with a very large aperture and also as examples of the general value of a FL range from about 24 to 105 (i.e. about 15 to 65 for your camera - the 135mm is just a bonus for you.

Note how for the interior shots using the extra width of the 10 to 18 and with IS will indeed be an asset for you:


http://gallery.photo.net/photo/18295885-md.jpg
Street Portraiture at about 80mm
*

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/17760336-md.jpg
Interior at 24mm
*

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/18131923-md.jpg
At 24mm F/4 @ 1/13s @ ISO3200 Hand Held
*

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/17901786-md.jpg
At 24mm and 1 second exposure – braced on window-sill
*

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/17760340-md.jpg
Street Portraiture – at around 100mm
*

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/17760337-md.jpg
Street Portraiture at about 105mm – 1/5 second, hand-held
*

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/16781841-md.jpg
Interior at 24mm and at about 1/8s Hand Held
*

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/18295883-md.jpg
Landscape at 80mm
*

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/18295886-md.jpg
Landscape at 28mm
*

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/17963049-md.jpg
Landscape at about 50mm
*

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/18156291-md.jpg
Street portraiture at around 100 mm

*

Have fun.

WW

All Images © AJ Group Pty Ltd Aust 1996~2016 WMW 1965~1996

[ameerat42]

Neil. It's time to get serious in this thread.

Since you can't possibly TAKE IN ALL the advice given here, it only remains for you to
TAKE US ALL with you when you go and leave us up to our own photographic devices.

We would long laud you for your thoughtfulness and generosity:nod:

[Doc63]

and



I think that you will use the 18 to 135 IS most of the time - I suggest, if you do buy the 10 to 18 then you swap to the 10 to 18 IS, before entering buildings.

*

I travel to Europe regularly. I have particular photographic passions for: (a) interior and exterior architecture; (b) general streetscapes and landscapes; (c) street style reportage portraiture.

I also don’t like carrying a “kit” when I am on holiday - I am not working. I mainly use EOS 5D Series Cameras. By far, over the past four/five years, the main working lens I use in Europe for the purposes I described and the convenience of having only one lens is the EF 24 to 105L F/4 IS USM. Roughly tallied that lens has made close to 95% of the approx 20,000 ‘holiday’ images over the last few years in Europe.

Your description of what you like to photograph is similar to what I have described. My advice is that 24mm (equiv about 15mm of your APS-C Camera) will be sufficiently wide enough for most shooting scenarios that you encounter and certainly 105 (equiv about 65mm of your APS-C Camera) will be long enough. So any good quality zoom lens that gets you from 15 to 70, will do the job for you: but as you seem to want to buy another lens, then the 10 to 18 with IS is an excellent choice.

Note well that if you want to capture interiors / interior architecture, then the more important issue is IMAGE STABILIZATION and that is more important than LENS SPEED. (i.e. Max. Aperture)

You will be better to have the convenience of a zoom and the ability to shoot at around F/4 or F/5.6 at a slower shutter speed, than to be using a faster zoom lens (e.g. F/2.8) or a Prime lens (e.g.F/1.8) and that lens NOT having IS.

I am not keen on Varying Maximum Aperture Zooms – but if you know the pitfalls and especially if you use the camera in Av Mode then just remember to keep an eye on that Shutter Speed.

Personally, I travel with a second camera. I now use a Fuji X100s. But before bought the Fuji I used a late model Canon Powershot. You should consider that - what if the 70D croaks - I also do tend to carry a second lens for my DSLR in case the 24 to 105 dies - and that is a fast 35 Prime, but that is seldom used now I have the Fuji. With what you are doing on a structured tour I think that considering any Prime Lens is a silly option: the 70D will eat up modestly high ISO, if you want to arrest any Subject Movement with a faster Tv and the two lenses that you intend to use.

In some museums, galleries and other venues, backpacks and slingshot camera bags, even small ones, are prohibited, whereas carrying a camera (or two) is not, anyway my Fuji fits into my pocket. I think it would be silly you taking a tripod or a monopod on a bus-style multi-stop tour – such are considered dangerous items (aka ‘possible weapons’) at many venues and as such are prohibited – I usually hire a car, or travel by train and I don’t even think to take a tripod or monopod – I use High ISO; IS; and good Shutter and Camera techniques, instead. If your tour is structured with guides, then they should know what is allowed for you to CARRY into venues.

Here are some examples to show the value of using IS as opposed to shooting with a very large aperture and also as examples of the general value of a FL range from about 24 to 105 (i.e. about 15 to 65 for your camera - the 135mm is just a bonus for you.

Note how for the interior shots using the extra width of the 10 to 18 and with IS will indeed be an asset for you:

Have fun.

WW


Thanks very much for that advice William. And those are exactly the type of shots I was thinking of.

Its not so much that I want to buy another lens, I just thought I'd need to (and any excuse will do :nod:), especially for interiors.

I agree on the image stabilisation, I think that is a must have. That is why I am leaning to the 10 to 18.

And yeah, I can just imagine how popular I'd be with the tour guide if I was lugging my tripod around.

Thanks again

Neil

- - - Updated - - -


Neil. It's time to get serious in this thread.

Since you can't possibly TAKE IN ALL the advice given here, it only remains for you to
TAKE US ALL with you when you go and leave us up to our own photographic devices.

We would long laud you for your thoughtfulness and generosity:nod:
LOL!!

Yes, you can all stow away. A bus full of photographers - the tour guide would be thrilled!!

[William W]

. . . I agree on the image stabilisation, I think that is a must have. That is why I am leaning to the 10 to 18.

Oh Yes! - I cannot underscore how important IS is at the wide end for this particular type of Photography.

I have pondered how wonderful it would be for me to take a TS-E 17; tripod; counterweights - and then direct the local Coppers to "please clear the area" . . . but that is just dream-time stuff.

***


. . . Its not so much that I want to buy another lens, I just thought I'd need to (and any excuse will do :) ), especially for interiors.

After years of buying lenses solely upon business logic and as tools of trade and rarely any personal subjective input, my 24 to 105/4L IS was a Christmas gift from me to me: that was a good choice that I made . . .

If it is not a great financial burden, then I think you should buy the 10 to 18. Additional to its usefulness on your holiday, with a bit of perseverance, it will open up a whole new genre of Photography for you and you can enjoy that for many years. 10mm is awfully wide and also a lot of fun to explore. And the 10 to 18 is not overlapping anything that you presently have. . .

BTW and a bit off topic - It occurs to me that you probably bought the 70D with the two kit lenses (18 to 55 and 55 to 250) and later thought that (for better IQ and 'walk around' convenience) an 18 to 135 STM would be the go.

Additionally the 70 to 300 L IS figures most logically on an APS-C for the longer stuff, be it sports/outdoors or similar - probably the 70 to 300 L IS would be my "one lens" choice for an APS-C over the 100 to 400 L IS for that type of shooting, because there's not all that much difference between 300 and 400 that a bit of post production cropping won't address - but the difference of being able to get wide to 70 rather than being stuck at 100 can be useful. I thought that if you are a medical practitioner, then you'd be used to working through that type of diagnostic procedure . . . I guess one question you might be asking now is: "what do I do with the 18 to 55 and the 55 to 250?" . . . well, I think it is all part of the process.

I think that if the Avatar on your profile is actually you holding a 70D with a 70 to 300L mounted, then your hair is the same colour as mine: and that in my opinion more than adequate reason for you to buy the 10 to 18 lens!

WW

[Doc63]

If it is not a great financial burden, then I think you should buy the 10 to 18. Additional to its usefulness on your holiday, with a bit of perseverance, it will open up a whole new genre of Photography for you and you can enjoy that for many years. 10mm is awfully wide and also a lot of fun to explore. And the 10 to 18 is not overlapping anything that you presently have. . .

The 10 to 18 can be found for under $400, plus the hood. I was also thinking Father Christmas might leave one under the tree this year if I'm a good boy!



BTW and a bit off topic - It occurs to me that you probably bought the 70D with the two kit lenses (18 to 55 and 55 to 250) and later thought that (for better IQ and 'walk around' convenience) an 18 to 135 STM would be the go.

Yes and no. The 18 to 55 and 55 to 250 came with the 70D. The 18 to 135 STM came with my daughter's 700D, But I use it more than she does. She usually uses the 15 to 55.



Additionally the 70 to 300 L IS figures most logically on an APS-C for the longer stuff, be it sports/outdoors or similar - probably the 70 to 300 L IS would be my "one lens" choice for an APS-C over the 100 to 400 L IS for that type of shooting, because there's not all that much difference between 300 and 400 that a bit of post production cropping won't address - but the difference of being able to get wide to 70 rather than being stuck at 100 can be useful. I thought that if you are a medical practitioner, then you'd be used to working through that type of diagnostic procedure . . . I guess one question you might be asking now is: "what do I do with the 18 to 55 and the 55 to 250?" . . . well, I think it is all part of the process.

I bought the 70 to 300 L IS for aviation & sports, though I haven't done a lot of sport yet. Its very good for aviation photography, and it was a lot cheaper than the new 100 to 400. The daughter used the 18 to 55, but the 55 to 250 hasn't been used in ages. Dont know if its worth trading in on the 10 to 18.



I think that if the Avatar on your profile is actually you holding a 70D with a 70 to 300L mounted, then your hair is the same colour as mine: and that in my opinion more than adequate reason for you to buy the 10 to 18 lens!

Yep, thats me holding the 70D with a 70 to 300L out the back of Tullamarine airport. And I wholeheartedly agree, that is an excellent reason to pull the trigger on the 10 to 18!