View Full Version : Any Laptop/Notebook Gurus/Geeks on AP ?? I Need some tech help, please .....
I bought a cheap laptop to use to tether my camera for long exposure Astro imaging. I really only want to use it for focusing via Live View.
I got a Toshiba Satellite Notebook that seriously needs a gee-up. OK, it was real low spec, and I knew it wasn't going to be any Usain Bolt, but seriously it's as slow as a wet week. I've removed all the bloatware and unnecessary start-up programs, but it still takes like 90 seconds to boot.
It is this one: PSCRNA-004004 - Toshiba Satellite C40D-C004 Computer
http://www.mytoshiba.com.au/products/computers/satellite/c40/pscrna-004004/specifications
I've been building my own desktops from scratch for 15 years, and info on parts specs is freely available. With Laptops it's all Chinese Whispers.
I would like to upgrade the RAM and also the 5400rpm HD to a small SSD. The Toshiba spec sheet says the RAM is up-gradeable to 16Gb, so I'm guessing that there are two slots available.
I downloaded CPU-Z and it came up with the RAM as Kingston, Part# TSB16D3LFS 1KGB/2G & Serial# AE2EAD99, neither of which come up on Kingston's search tool. I'm not saying that CPU-Z got it right, but that's all I have to go on.
I'm pretty sure that a mob the size of Toshiba would have some flexibility, and inter-changeability, with their platforms, but after two days of 'Googling' I'm just running into brick walls. :hb::hb:
The Mobo seems to be a Toshiba creation, and of course, no specs available.
As the notebook is only three days old I haven't pulled the back off it yet as I'd like to have a clear upgrade path before I void the warranty.
Any suggestions most appreciated.
Forgot to mention that I intend to load W7 on the SSD as the OS.
I'm living with W10 on the desktop, but not loving it. :(
ricktas
08-03-2016, 7:11pm
and right there is the reason I hate the direction tech is heading. So many closed systems without provision of what is inside that system. I would have suggested CPU-Z if you had not mentioned it.
ameerat42
08-03-2016, 7:15pm
Gurus and geeks? Whatta bout me?:(
Aw awlright!
1. Kev.
2. Have you run ChrisPCWinEI (http://win-experience-index.chris-pc.com/) on this yet to figger out its slow points?
3. Then do so.
4. I would say:
a) If you can, double the RAM. It's DDR3, but that should be OK.
b) Don't bovver with an SSD MOST probably because of "a)" AND the absolute power of the processor.
5. LIKE :th3: WIN10, as it'll be MUCH FASTER on that machine than ANY downgrade to Win 7 will EVER be.
6. If it's not Win10 yet, then "Make it so!"
And FINALLY, hurry up and run ChrisWinEI, as I want to know the results.
(Of course, if you could take it back and get something better, that would be best:nod:)
and right there is the reason I hate the direction tech is heading. So many closed systems without provision of what is inside that system. I would have suggested CPU-Z if you had not mentioned it.
Yep, W10 is a huge step in the 'closed-shop' direction.
ameerat42
08-03-2016, 7:30pm
Tell yer why: I have an EEE Netbook (as well). It could only run Win 7 Starter:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Now it is noticeably snappier with Win 10 Home and the max 2GB RAM (even though slower than the orig 1GB).
I ran Win 7 for a while with the 2GB just to get a feel of it. Pfwhrr! At least it doesn't take a year to start up now.
Gurus and geeks? Whatta bout me?:(
Aw awlright!
1. Kev.
2. Have you run ChrisPCWinEI (http://win-experience-index.chris-pc.com/) on this yet to figger out its slow points?
3. Then do so.
4. I would say:
a) If you can, double the RAM. It's DDR3, but that should be OK.
b) Don't bovver with an SSD MOST probably because of "a)" AND the absolute power of the processor.
5. LIKE :th3: WIN10, as it'll be MUCH FASTER on that machine than ANY downgrade to Win 7 will EVER be.
6. If it's not Win10 yet, then "Make it so!"
And FINALLY, hurry up and run ChrisWinEI, as I want to know the results.
(Of course, if you could take it back and get something better, that would be best:nod:)
Hi Amguru,
First thing I did was run ChrisPCWinEI.
I must admit to being pleasantly surprised.
124399
The same RAM on my desktop scored 7.4, the SSD 7.5, and the CPU 7.4. I don't quite know how to analyse the variances, but I do know that when I increased my RAM and fitted the SSD, my desktop got a new lease on life.
ameerat42
08-03-2016, 8:15pm
Kev, but... Why get an SSD at extra expense when can just get a new lappy wif one in it already?
Kev, but... Why get a SSD at extra expense when can just get a new lappy wif one in it already?
Am,
This laptop is at the bottom of the food-chain, all of $349.00. There are a lot of common components across the range, and the manufacturers charge extra-potentially for them as they increase the good add-ins. By spending $100.00 on a SSD and RAM, I will elevate my el cheapo into the realm of the $7/800.00 models.
tandeejay
08-03-2016, 8:50pm
Spinning disks are notoriously slow compared to even the slowest CPU, so an SSD is always going to give you a boost, as it eliminates ALL the time the CPU sits around waiting for the bit of information it needs to move under the head on the hard drive.
I'm guessing you've defragmented your hard drive... a fragmented spinning disk hard drive will cause significant delays in your load time as the system needs to spend a lot of time moving the head around to read the different bits of data, so a defragmented hard drive could give you a boost almost as good as an SSD.
I've not yet touched Win10 except to provide remote support for my sister, so not sure what options you have with that.
Too many anti-malware programs configured to perform realtime monitoring will kill your performance too.
And, another thing, not sure about win10, but earlier versions of windows tried to move all the files used at boot time to a location where they were all close together on the disk to reduce future excess head movement on boot. It can take several boots for that system to get the right set of files close. If after a few boots (waiting for disk activity to completely settle down before the next reboot) you havn't seen a decrease in the boot time, this is probably not the issue.
Install Linux :D
ameerat42
08-03-2016, 9:09pm
Spinning disks are notoriously slow compared to even the slowest CPU, so an SSD is always going to give you a boost, as it eliminates ALL the time the CPU sits around waiting for the bit of information it needs to move under the head on the hard drive....
Generally speaking, that is. SSDs must do something mysterious as well. For the 1st time I access the Downloads folder
it takes a good few seconds (progress bar etc) before it displays the file list. This does not happen on the little old EEE Netbook
with weak processor and 5400 HDD. Both run Win 10.
Then there's throughput...
tandeejay
08-03-2016, 9:17pm
Generally speaking, that is. SSDs must do something mysterious as well. For the 1st time I access the Downloads folder
it takes a good few seconds (progress bar etc) before it displays the file list. This does not happen on the little old EEE Netbook
with weak processor and 5400 HDD. Both run Win 10.
Then there's throughput...
Thats probably more to do with mysterious things windows does ;) I'm a Unix admin, so what windows does is mysterious to me :eek:
...and what's the gpu? Possibly sharing the ram, how much is it stealing?
...and what's the gpu? Possibly sharing the ram, how much is it stealing?
Good point.
When I built my current system about 2 1/2 years back with W7 Pro, I was getting screen freezes on almost a daily basis, along with many other people. The MS forum had thousands of similar complaints. I'd put in 8Gb of RAM, G Skill, not some cheap and cheerful stuff.
To try and isolate the problem I had CoreTemp running on the screen, and one day when the screen froze, I noticed that the memory use was off the clock.
Added another 8GB and haven't had a screen freeze since.
In this instance I think the RAM is much more likely to be the culprit. The SSD would come into it's own if I was doing some heavy duty PP'ing.
Interesting!
Well if you do crack it open it would be interesting to see what's on the inside!
A while ago I used to work on a whole bunch of netbooks, even though they were the same model their internal components did slightly vary at times. The lcd panels would have different casts, and ram brands were sometimes different!
Good luck! ;D
arthurking83
09-03-2016, 5:34am
For some perspective:
Gigabyte S1080 tablet. Came with a 7.5mm(thin) 5400rpm HDD which were hard to find in most shops, so decision was made to get an SSD.
Samsung 840 series SSD was got cloned and installed.
With the 5400 HDD, boot up was measured in the minutes .. at least 90 sec, more like 2mins.
Accessing files for the first time or the umpteenth time was 'fast enough' but you could feel it was sluggish overall .. whaddaya expect from a Atom CPU!! :p
In goes the SSD, and bingo! .. speed to burn now.
Especially programs like Nikon's ViewNX2.
Super fast on the desktop accessing local HDD and USB drives .. a wee bit slow accessing files on the network now tho(latency!)
On the tablet ViewNX2 was bearable .. slow but bearable. FSViewer was a bit better for some viewing of images instead.
With the SSD tho, ViewNX2 is as good as the desktop.
My experience with stuff like this .. is SSD first, RAM second.
Tablet came with Win7 Pro, upped to Win10 .. and it's far superior as a device now. Had to avoid the more tablet friendly Win8 due to some initial dislikes of it, even tho I know it'd have made the tablet much more tablet like(Win7 on a tablet is woeful!)
Win10 now makes it all feel natural.
But if you want to eke out that little bit more speed, get rid of all the eye candy in either Win7 or Win10, or whatever you choose to install on the lappy!
arthurking83
09-03-2016, 9:15am
ps...
....
The same RAM on my desktop scored 7.4, the SSD 7.5, and the CPU 7.4. I don't quite know how to analyse the variances, but I do know that when I increased my RAM and fitted the SSD, my desktop got a new lease on life.
Don't assume that pluging in the same SSD and RAM in the laptop will produce the same results!
They all rely on the basic structure of the motherboard to achieve those results.
That is, if the interconnect between SATA interface and CPU on the laptop is slower than in the motherboard in your desktop, then obviously the transfer rates in the laptop will be slower.
Oh! ... and as for those sorts of benchmark I was under the impression that they produce a rating based on what hardware you have installed(ie. via a database of relative performance) .. rather than actual performance of that hardware.
That is, if you install <Brand X/Model Y> SSD in the laptop that you know works well on the desktop doesn't mean it will work as well in the laptop, because the SATA interface chip used will almost certainly be different.
It's these devices(the internal chips) that make all the difference to performance.
Some are, by design, just plain and utter crap(ie. look for JMicron chips .. and avoid like the plague!!!)
Being an AMD system, it'll use AMD controller chips so shouldn't be a real issue(they work OK).
As for RAM, unless you're doing a lot of intensive operations for example, or have many programs running at the same time, I wouldn't worry about spending money on more of it(just yet).
The piddly slow HDD running at 5400RPM and it's slow latency will have a better impact on boot time and load times for most programs.
If you're using ViewNX2, as it's heavily reliant on disk access times, a faster hard drive helps to improve loading of images as well as building the icon cache for the film strip.
I'd be inclined to leave Win10 installed and not bother with Win7.
Win7's Aero seems to hog resources more than Win10's set up seems too.
Win10 should boot quicker, that was a supposed improvement in WIn10 over Win7 .. system files will load in the background once Win10 allows you to do stuff, whereas in Win7 it waits for most of the system files to load first.
If the Start/Programs button in Win10 is a problem and you prefer the older Win 7 and earlier method for accessing your software, you can install Classic Shell and go back to the Win7 start menu system if you prefer.
I actually prefer the Win10 tiled system now as it's quicker and easier to access my most commonly used software, not already set up in the quick launch bar.
I deleted all the default crap tiles(news feeds and crap like that) .. and just loaded my own tiles. :th3:
For HDD performance analysis:
Download Crystal Disk Mark (http://crystalmark.info/software/index-e.html) works well for giving you a real world indication of disk performance.
Test takes about 5mins. Save the output to a text file and compare results as you alter stuff.
Also go looking for latest drivers for some of the relevant hardware.
For AMD, you may want to go directly to the catalyst site and download AMD's latest drivers, not what Toshiba thinks should be the latest.
Cheers Arthur.
I'm slowly working my way through all the App Crap. Boy, they sure loaded it into W10.
I came across a good deal on 8GB of Kingston RAM ($47.96 to the door) so grabbed it. Most interested to see what difference it makes.
Cheers
Kev
Grabbed a wireless mouse today. Just couldn't come to terms with the touch pad.
I've also grabbed a deal on a Kingston 120GB SSD.
Hopefully they both arrive Monday and I'll install the RAM first and see how it goes, and then install the SSD for a comparison.
SSD and 8GB of RAM now in with a clean install of W10 Home.
Start-up time has now gone from 90secs+ to 40secs.
Happy camper. :nod:
arthurking83
18-03-2016, 6:09am
....
Happy camper. :nod:
I'm about to build a couple of PCs for my sis .. I'm hoping to have Windows fully loaded in about 16 seconds!
(although it's unlikely considering the amount of software that these PCs need to run at the same time at bootup)
Kev, I'm curious. Did the upgrade in RAM actually help at all?
That is, if you replace it now with the original RAM(4G, I think) .. does the lappy still boot up in about 40s?
ameerat42
18-03-2016, 8:54am
I'm about to build a couple of PCs for my sis .. I'm hoping to have Windows fully loaded in about 16 seconds!
(although it's unlikely considering the amount of software that these PCs need to run at the same time at bootup)
Kev, I'm curious. Did the upgrade in RAM actually help at all?
That is, if you replace it now with the original RAM(4G, I think) .. does the lappy still boot up in about 40s?
"Fordy seccunds?!":eek: If it's Asus and has Instant On activated, and (now) has an SSD, it should do 10 seconds - like mine.
I'm about to build a couple of PCs for my sis .. I'm hoping to have Windows fully loaded in about 16 seconds!
(although it's unlikely considering the amount of software that these PCs need to run at the same time at bootup)
Kev, I'm curious. Did the upgrade in RAM actually help at all?
That is, if you replace it now with the original RAM(4G, I think) .. does the lappy still boot up in about 40s?
Hi Arthur,
Had a bit of a hiccup with the new RAM as I couldn't boot. Put the old RAM back in with the SSD and from memory it booted a bit quicker. I downloaded a clean copy of W10 from MS with the original RAM and was up and running in about 30 minutes.
I then swapped the new 8GB RAM stick to the other slot and 'Bingo', booted up and recognised.
I turned it on this morning and it all seems to have bedded in as I had an accessible computer in 13 secs. The only programs showing in the start-up folder are ETD ControlCentre (for the mousepad) and OneDrive.
In answer to your question, yes, I believe it's made a huge difference.
John King
18-03-2016, 9:54am
"Fordy seccunds?!":eek: If it's Asus and has Instant On activated, and (now) has an SSD, it should do 10 seconds - like mine.
Gidday Am
The first of the desktops I inherited boots up from a cold boot in 39 seconds. It is a 6 y.o. PC with a new Kingston 240GB SSD (the more expensive one with the Seagate management chip) and 4GB RAM. Running Win7 Pro 32 bit OS.
That 39 seconds includes a couple of start up processes, including proper time server s/w (MS has stopped supporting their own time server!!), antivirus s/w, etc.
The SSD certainly makes a huge difference.
One caveat, if the OS thinks that there is a driver problem, the computer becomes all but impossible to start. Yesterday I finally got this one to start by inserting another SSD with the same OS and configuration on it, booting to that, running Windows Repair, running CHKDSK on the original SSD, then shutting the computer down and rebooting with the original SSD only. What a performance for a 'found' file folder with 0 bytes in it!
BTW, that found file folder has to have ownership taken of it plus security changed to the current user in order for one to access it. Really bloody useful!
Methinks that MS is seriously losing the plot :(.
"Fordy seccunds?!":eek: If it's Asus and has Instant On activated, and (now) has an SSD, it should do 10 seconds - like mine.
Hi Am,
As I said to Arthur, this morning I had a usable laptop in 13 secs, and I don't mean just seeing the desktop, I mean logged in and fully accessible. Happy Camper. :D
Just ran ChrisPC again and got the following, with the old scores in brackets:
Processor: 6.1 (6.1)
Memory: 7.0 (5.5)
Graphics: 4.9 (4.9)
Gaming Graphics: 9.9 (9.9)
Hard Disk 8.1 (5.9)
So, as expected, significant improvement in the RAM and Hard Disk scores.
FYI, Kingston make Toshiba's RAM with personalised model #'s which are not traceable on Kingston's memory search. I guess that's why the greedy buggers at Toshiba think that they can ask $230.00 for the 8GB ram stick that I bought for $47.96 delivered.
All in all, very happy with the upgrade. :nod:
ameerat42
18-03-2016, 10:32am
Well, there a couple of JUMPS there. In all what did it cost like that?
tandeejay
18-03-2016, 10:35am
One thing to keep in mind with SSD's - You shouldn't perform your traditional defragmentation as that will shorten the life of your SSD. It doesn't have spinning parts so doesn't have the latency issues that defragmentation addresses.
Well, there a couple of JUMPS there. In all what did it cost like that?
Not quite sure what you're asking :confused013 but if you mean total $ cost, the notebook was $349.00, the 8GB of RAM $47.96 and the 120GB SSD $63.20, for an all-up cost of $460.16. :)
ameerat42
18-03-2016, 11:21am
Ta. That was it:nod:
Ta. That was it:nod:
The only real slug in the system now is the onboard GPU, and not a lot I can do about it.
It apparently has 1Gb of built-in memory, and according to W10 performance tool it can access half of the RAM. I've only tried it with ViewNX-2 to date, and it is no slower than my desktop. I'm thinking about putting CS6 via CC on it, and I'll see how it goes then for very basic PP I may do when away from home.
And it's raining here. YeeHaaaaaa, we really need it.
FWIW, I just installed CC 's Photoshop on the Notebook and it is not all that slower.
From a NEF file to opening it in the Camera Raw plug-in, about 5secs, as opposed to about 2 seconds on the desktop. Once the file is opened in PS, speeds seems just a tad slower, but really much of a muchness. Certainly a hell of a lot faster than I anticipated.
Checking the System Info in PS is says it has 6GB of RAM available so it is obviously harnessing a fair whack of the RAM when required.
Once more, I'm delighted with my upgrade, 'cos I'm absobloodylutely positive I wouldn't have got those results with 2GB of RAM and a 5400rpm spindle drive.
landyvlad
18-03-2016, 4:30pm
This is not going to make you feel any better but a few years ago I bought a high-spec Toshiba satellite.
It's a complete PITA and i would NEVER buy another Toshiba. Never ever.
I haven't had any computer shut itself down and restart so often for updates - and smack in the middle of doing things!
Have tried updating to Windows 10 both by 'upgrade' and clean install and no luck. It just hates it and won't play - display stops entirely all sorts of stuff.
No amount of assistance sought from Toshiba (not very helpful) and from knowledgeable people on various IT forums has helped - other than the fact I have come across many others with Toshiba Satellite laptops with exactly the same, apparently unsolvable, issues.
Sigh.
/end rant mode
ameerat42
18-03-2016, 4:37pm
...a few years ago I bought a high-spec Toshiba satellite...
...
Have tried updating to Windows 10 both by 'upgrade' and clean install and no luck. It just hates it and won't play - display stops entirely all sorts of stuff.
No amount of assistance sought from Toshiba (not very helpful) and from knowledgeable people on various IT forums has helped - other than the fact I have come across many others with Toshiba Satellite laptops with exactly the same, apparently unsolvable, issues.
...
Hmm! Not the 3 brand new, high-specced T Sats I recently updated (not clean installed) to Win 10. They go very well, thank you very much:nod:
(Pass the cake, please! Yes, thanks, another champagne would be nice:D)
arthurking83
18-03-2016, 4:57pm
ViewNX2 'doesn't use' the graphics card/chip for any performance benefit.
I use quotation marks for the term doesn't use as it obviously needs it to render some graphics, but the speed and size of the graphics subsystem has no bearing on how well(or not) ViewNX2 operates.
Only performance boosts you can do for VNX2 is faster media where the files are located to speed up image loading times, and more/faster RAM(if your system benefits from faster ram too tho) for batching job lots.
Sounds like you're probably at the peak of what the laptop can do in terms of HDD speed.
Adobe products are different tho. They have some internal programming that not only uses the CPU to effect processing, but any idle GPU power gets used up by Adobe's hunger for power.
ViewNX2 is not programmed in this manner.
So if you use CC/CS regularly and intensively, you may want to try diverting some more RAM space to the GPU as well to see if that helps in any way.
if you do try that, you should find that VNX2 will not be affected in any way.
I'm kind'a in the same boat ATM with my desktop, in that I originally had a graphics card for the PC, but had to donate it to another machine a while back.
So my desktop had to revert from a 2 gig u-bute graphics card with reasonable power, down to the onboard graphics chip in the motherboard.
Made no difference at all to either VNX2 or CNX2's operation speed at all.
I upped RAM from 4G to 16G, and the only difference I noted in their speeds was when doing batch jobs .. just little faster .. not immensely faster.
But! .... what makes a major difference is HDD speed.
Not long ago my fastest drive died. That drive could sustain 100+Mb/s read/write rates easily over the long haul(hundreds of gigs to 1+tb) .. so not just a short burst rate.
It's burst rate was in the order of 180-ish Mb/s.
The drive I now use in it's place is a tad slower, 70-ish Mb/s for large transfers and just over 100Mb/s bursts(if I'm lucky).
CNX feels more sluggish, and VNX2 just a little less zippy if I had lots of images in a folder.
But in saying that, they're still more than usable for me. No real holdups or waiting for something to happen.
I tried CS something(cant' remember) and it took wayyyyyyyyyyyy to long for anything to happen, and Lr is almost as slow to use as is that painful CNX-D!!
Oh! and the only reason I still persist with (the glacier that is) CNX-D, is because it's now stopped crashing every time I try to use it :p
This is not going to make you feel any better but a few years ago I bought a high-spec Toshiba satellite.
It's a complete PITA and i would NEVER buy another Toshiba. Never ever.
I haven't had any computer shut itself down and restart so often for updates - and smack in the middle of doing things!
Have tried updating to Windows 10 both by 'upgrade' and clean install and no luck. It just hates it and won't play - display stops entirely all sorts of stuff.
No amount of assistance sought from Toshiba (not very helpful) and from knowledgeable people on various IT forums has helped - other than the fact I have come across many others with Toshiba Satellite laptops with exactly the same, apparently unsolvable, issues.
Sigh.
/end rant mode
I have neighbours who bough a top end Satellite about five years back and their two kids belted the living daylights out of it.
It's still going strong.
Sorry to hear you got the bad apple in the barrel. :(
When you say you tried a clean install did you try it on a clean disk, or over the top of an existing installation.
I used this link..... https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/software-download/windows10 to do mine and it went without a hitch.
Mark L
21-03-2016, 11:28pm
I have neighbours who bough a top end Satellite about five years back and their two kids belted the living daylights out of it.
It's still going strong.
I do all my photo stuff on a six year old Satellite. CS6 PPs fast and no problems. Until people start to tell my my bird photos look like crap I'll continue to think the Satellite is doing a reasonable job.
Does it matter that something takes 10, 13, 60 seconds to bootup. Go and have a cuppa.
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