Pentax full frame 35mm official announcement from Ricoh (K-1 36mp)

[tduell]

latest Pentax full frame news here...

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ricoh-defines-full-frame-benchmark-with-new-pentax-full-frame-dslr-offering-300221761.html

Cheers,
Terry

Just for clarity... The official link http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/k-1/ (Edit by Kym)

[MissionMan]

Probably not relevant as no one here shoots pentax anymore :D

[arthurking83]

I almost fell of my very comfy, beautifully moulded, very snug, very wide and well padded chair when I saw the RRP!

I hate Nikon! :D

[tduell]

Probably not relevant as no one here shoots pentax anymore :D

You're a bit behind the times...you need to keep up!

Cheers,
Terry

- - - Updated - - -


I almost fell of my very comfy, beautifully moulded, very snug, very wide and well padded chair when I saw the RRP!

I hate Nikon! :D

Ha...perhaps you need to clarify for us poor sods who are too slow to twig to what you really mean.

Cheers,
Terry

[swifty]

I almost fell of my very comfy, beautifully moulded, very snug, very wide and well padded chair when I saw the RRP!


Indeed re: RRP.
Now Pentaxians, would you care to help bring me up to speed with what gems lurk in your lens line up?

[mudman]

Probably not relevant as no one here shoots pentax anymore :D

well MM, those that don't are the losers

[tduell]

What do I think about the K-1?
The announcement is just adding a bit of reality to the teaser stuff that has preceeded this.
It 'sounds' like a reasonable spec.
The continuous frame rate is probably going to be seen as a bit on the low side, and we will have to wait to see if the new AF is much of an advance on the K-3, K-3 II. Not sure about the use of USB-2 versus USB-3. I have never used my USB port, so not much effect on me.
The improvements in the shake reduction and pixel-shift over those in the K-3 II both sound good.

I'm cautiously optimistic, as probably expected, but will wait and see how it all shapes up in tests. As it doesn't go on sale until April I guess we won't see a lot more until we get a bit closer to that date. The price sounds OK to me.


Cheers,
Terry

- - - Updated - - -


Indeed re: RRP.
Now Pentaxians, would you care to help bring me up to speed with what gems lurk in your lens line up?

Do you mean 'my' lens line line up or the pentax lens line up?
I think the announcement did have a few words about lenses.

As to my lenses...see my sig for all the gory detail, but to clarifty my Pentax 150-450 and Sigma 24-70 are FF compatible, the Sigma 18-300 isn't but the K-1 has a crop mode and will auto-sense the lens, but this probably only applies to Pentax lenses.
Certainly not the range of lenses available that some other brands enjoy.

Cheers,
Terry

[swifty]

Hi Terry,
Just some of lenses considered stars in the Pentax line up since I'm unfamiliar with the range.
I shoot Nikon but currently only have 1 lens (and a few other accessories) tying me up to the F-mount. Although that one lens is something special.
And I'm considering an upgrade in the 2016-2017 period. The D810 successor would be my natural choice but I'm very open minded.
Even Pentax 645 should prices come down enough but the K-1's pricing is very attractive but much of my purchase decision will be based on the lens available.

[arthurking83]

What do I think about the K-1? .....

As for the frame rate, many people just assume that this is a factor that is related to the buffer and internal data bandwidth of the device!

It's not!
The most important factor is the data bandwidth capability of the sensor itself.

Sony showed the world how this works with their D300/A7 and D3x/A850-A900 series sensors.
Both those sensors were bandwidth restricted to weird degrees.

That is, they could obviously provide x amount of bandwidth at 12 bit(D300 was 6 -8 fps capable), but in 14 bit mode it was restricted to 1fps(I think more accurately 1.5fps)

That is, the same sensor that could shoot at 8fps in 12bit mode could only achieve 1.5fps when set to 14bit mode.
This made the specs of the camera seem 'slow' in some conditions, but the cameras internal systems(buffer and line speeds) were obviously capable of faster speeds.

D800 series, which obviously uses the same Sony 36Mp sensor is only capable of 4fps, D800E is also 4.4 fps capable too.
Pentax generally uses better data throughput hardware in their comparable cameras, compared to Nikon(this is historically true, not too sure now tho).

So for Pentax to only achieve 4.4fps isn't as a result of Pentax decision .. other than they chose this 36Mp sensor which is limited to that data throughput.
To the casual observer it may look slow, but once you understand the internal workings of the hardware in reality it's more like normal!

One thing that I really do like about this camera is the sensor shift capability. Not so much the stabilisation, but the ability to pixel shift and the gps tacking feature for astro.
I'm not a fan of onboard gps tho. Personally I prefer if they'd used a bleutooth connection to connect an external GPS (a feature on the D500 that I'd use heavily if it works).
GPS is heavy on batteries(and I mean dastardly heavy!)
On the D300 once, I used the cable connected GPS for all shots for that day. I only got 180 exposures.
With the bt GPS(connected via a bt dongle on the camera) I can easily get 800+ images using the GPS for every shot!
So you'd want to be careful and very selective on when you use the GPS in camera!(which then leads to possibly forgetting to turn it on, and/or off).

The pixel shift is a landscape/studio photographers dream .. if you concern yourself about ultimate quality. As long as the lens is capable of rendering the resolution, acutance and color from this camera will be at the peak of what's currently possible.

DPR has a mini preview done on a pre production model. Looks quite good.

- - - Updated - - -

And for Swifty.

Nikon lenses are easily adaptable to Pentax mounts. The Pentax K/M42 mount has a shorter register distance, so lenses will work fine, other than AF and electrical functionality.

The other way around(Pentax lenses on Nikon bodies) you obviously lose infinity focus(unless you're willing to hack a lens! ;))

[Cage]

The suggested MRP blew me away. :eek:

Now why did I keep that Pentax M 50mm f1.7 when I've been using Nikon for over two years.

If I hadn't 'upgraded' to the K5 from the K20D I'd probably still be a Pentax shooter. Loved all my lens but not so much the K5.

[KevPride]

Will be interesting to see what US$1799 translates to when CRK get stock, they have managed to keep some of the lenses comparable to US$. Hopefully not over $A2500.

[MissionMan]

What is the native resolution without sensor shift?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tduell]

What is the native resolution without sensor shift?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

36.x MP, but still the same using pixel shift, just that each pixel gets the actual R,G and B rather than having to interpolate.

Cheers,
Terry

- - - Updated - - -


Hi Terry,
Just some of lenses considered stars in the Pentax line up since I'm unfamiliar with the range.
I shoot Nikon but currently only have 1 lens (and a few other accessories) tying me up to the F-mount. Although that one lens is something special.
And I'm considering an upgrade in the 2016-2017 period. The D810 successor would be my natural choice but I'm very open minded.
Even Pentax 645 should prices come down enough but the K-1's pricing is very attractive but much of my purchase decision will be based on the lens available.

I'm no expert on this, so I'd suggest having a roam around on Pentax Forums http://www.pentaxforums.com/...I'm sure you'll find some discussions on this very topic.

Cheers,
Terry

[MissionMan]

36.x MP, but still the same using pixel shift, just that each pixel gets the actual R,G and B rather than having to interpolate.


Thanks, what is the benefit of having this?

[spootz01]

This is really tempting even with my investment in the EF system. The price alone makes it a steal for a FF sensor. Now I guess I will have to watch with envy from afar...

[arthurking83]

What is the native resolution without sensor shift?


....

MM, like Terry said, it doesn't increase the pixel count, but it does increase 'resolution' or more accurately acutance in the image.

if you want to see it in terms of a visual representation of it in real life, go to the DPR site and look for the studio comparison widget.
(actually I'll do it for 'ya here with THIS LINK (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=pentax_k3ii&attr13_1=pentax_k3ii&attr13_2=nikon_d7200&attr13_3=canon_eos5dmkii&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=100&attr16_2=100&attr16_3=100&attr126_0=highres&attr126_1=normal&normalization=full&widget=1&x=-0.6337454212454213&y=-0.6225235664185915) .. if it works. If it doesn't then just do it manually.
Get the pentax K-3II up twice in the two comparo boxes, one with pixel shift on and the other off .. and a D7200 in another(they use the same sensor). K3-II has pixel shift.

What you actually want to look at in the studio tool is the black diagonal lines(on white) on the diagonal strip, as this is where the technology is more obvious.
Note that with the K3-II with pixel shift off and D7200 render those diagonal lines with the jaggies. That is the diagonals aren't rendered as lines, they have the staircase effect(ie. jaggies).
With the pixel shift on, the lines are rendered as lines instead.

But if you zoom around the entire image, there isn't all that much more detail rendered anywhere because the lens used just isn't up to the task.
That's why the lens used is important to make full use of the technology. So if the lens is capable, then the camera will provide the extra detail.

Also look at the comparison at higher ISO too .. the pixel shift is rendering much finer grain/colour noise detail, which has the effect of cleaner looking high ISO noise too.

the other benefit is that you don't get moire either.

Only problem is the limitations on when, and at what settings, you can use pixel shift.
I'd guess that 4.4 fps most likely won't be available when using pixel shift(but I dunno!).

[Cage]

Cheers for the link Arthur. :th3:

Interesting how the Pixel Shift seems to reduce noise.

[MissionMan]

Wow. 121MB raw file :eek:

[tduell]

Cheers for the link Arthur. :th3:

Interesting how the Pixel Shift seems to reduce noise.

That's because the PS image is made up from the 4 images shot at each of the Bayer sensor locations...RGGB.
If you shoot 4 images on non PS camera, and average, the result will have lower noise.

Cheers,
Terry

- - - Updated - - -


Wow. 121MB raw file :eek:
Yes, comprising 4 DNG files, which then need to be processed using Pentax Digital Camera Utility software, or if you don't use Windows or OSX, with dcrawps to process the 4 and generate a 16 bit tiff.
For info, dcrawps is a patched version of David Coffin's dcraw software, modified to process the PS RAW files. It has the ability to highlight any movement in the subject during the shooting of the 4 images, and to do a repair using pixels from one of the layers. It cunningly looks at differences in the two green pixel shots to detect movement.

Cheers,
Terry

[Cage]

That's because the PS image is made up from the 4 images shot at each of the Bayer sensor locations...RGGB.
If you shoot 4 images on non PS camera, and average, the result will have lower noise.

Cheers,
Terry

I'm confused. :confused013

Does the K1 do four takes for each image ?

[tduell]

I'm confused. :confused013

Does the K1 do four takes for each image ?

Yes, the same as the K-3 II does. It shifts the sensor by one pixel for each shot with each aligning exactly with an R, G, G and B of the Bayer pattern, then saves all 4 in a DNG (or PEF) or if shooting jpg does in camera processing to emit one standard size jpg PS image.
It might be useful to do a search for "Pentax pixel shift"...there is quite a lot of material on the web that explains it with nice images, probably much clearer than I am doing it.

Cheers,
Terry

[arthurking83]

.....


Yes, comprising 4 DNG files, which then need to be processed using Pentax Digital Camera Utility software ....

Oh! .. I assumed that the combination of the four exposures would be done in camera and the 120Mb raw file created directly from there.
Which is what happens if you use multiple exposures in camera.

Of course I don't have a Pentax device of any kind, let alone the Pentax software to check it out and how it works.


Kev! ... Your D800 has even cleaner high ISO if you try hard enough ;)
You can easily get ISO12800 images(in NEF format *) with no noise at all .. you just need to try a bit harder :p
(you could probably do the same thing in jpg format in camera, but that format is foreign to me in camera! :D)

- - - Updated - - -


... then saves all 4 in a DNG (or PEF) or if shooting jpg does in camera processing to emit one standard size jpg PS image.
.....

OK .. a bit confusing.
So the output is a single DNG/PEF file or a jpg file(if you prefer) .. "jpg PS image" tho is confusing? .... what's that? :confused013

[tduell]

Oh! .. I assumed that the combination of the four exposures would be done in camera and the 120Mb raw file created directly from there.
Which is what happens if you use multiple exposures in camera.

My story is what happens at the moment with the K-3 II, and I have assumed that will be the same with the K-1. I haven't seen anything thus far that suggests K-1 does in-camera processing to emit a PS raw, but maybe we haven't seen all the gory detail yet.

Cheers,
Terry

- - - Updated - - -



OK .. a bit confusing.
So the output is a single DNG/PEF file or a jpg file(if you prefer) .. "jpg PS image" tho is confusing? .... what's that? :confused013

OK, I'll try to clarify. If you shoot jpg, and have pixel shift ON, then camera shoots 4 images, processes in-camera and saves a single jpg of sensor size...i.e a pixel shifted (PS) image. Does that remove confusion?

Cheers,
Terry

[arthurking83]

Your terminology is unclear Terry.

what's a "PS raw".

Pentax as far as I know output raw files in the DNG and PEF format.

what's the PS mean?(same with your earlier use pf PS in the jpg comment).

[tduell]

Your terminology is unclear Terry.

what's a "PS raw".

Pentax as far as I know output raw files in the DNG and PEF format.

what's the PS mean?(same with your earlier use pf PS in the jpg comment).

For crying out loud :D we are talking Pixel Shift (PS).
A pixel shift raw file (either DNG or PEF) will comprise the 4 separate images, shot at each of the sensor movements. If you shoot with PS 'off', then the raw will contain only one image.

Does that help?

Cheers,
Terry

[MissionMan]

I was a little confused as well. PS is a common reference to Photoshop


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tduell]

I was a little confused as well. PS is a common reference to Photoshop


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OK, but I did use "pixel shift (PS)" thus defining the abbreviation.

Cheers,
Terry

[arthurking83]

....

Does that help?



Yep makes sense.

but remember us non Pentax folks don't really know much about Pentax systems.

I was thinking that the file type is something weird like PSJpeg or something.
So the jpg is a standard jpg type and can be viewed by any image browser?

Same with a DNG or PEF file. Any software can view a pixel shifted raw file, or only the Pentax software?

is there any way(eg a setting in camera) to simply combine the images in camera as a single raw file so that the resultant raw file from pixel shifting is a single file(some sort of gain control or something like that).

[Cage]

@ Arthur .....


Kev! ... Your D800 has even cleaner high ISO if you try hard enough
You can easily get ISO12800 images(in NEF format *) with no noise at all .. you just need to try a bit harder
(you could probably do the same thing in jpg format in camera, but that format is foreign to me in camera! )

I don't shoot white sheets very often. :lol2:

Anything over ISO800 in the shade and I'm seeing noise.

[swifty]

A number of manufacturers are doing the sensor shift thing and the implementation are all a bit different.
I think Phase One started it all IIRC.
The Olympus way does half pixel shifts 8 times resulting in both resolution increases and all colour info at each photosite but spits out a single RAW file with the combined data.
Limitations for this technique is you need static subjects and camera for the duration that the camera need to execute the shifts. The Pentax blurb says it has a motion correction function. I wonder how well this works and also how long the K-1 takes to execute the four shifts.

[tduell]

Yep makes sense.

Good, I was beginning to think I should give up :D.



but remember us non Pentax folks don't really know much about Pentax systems.

I was thinking that the file type is something weird like PSJpeg or something.


Sure, but I thought I had spelled it out well enough, but clearly non-pentaxians can be difficult :p



So the jpg is a standard jpg type and can be viewed by any image browser?

Same with a DNG or PEF file. Any software can view a pixel shifted raw file, or only the Pentax software?

yes, the out-of-camera jpg from a pixel shift is stock standard.
Not all software will correctly read the pixel shift raw. Most will only see the first of the 4 images. I think Lightroom (a bit vague on this as I don't use it) is capable of extracting all 4 pixel shift images from the raw.
Pentax supply their Digital camera Utility software with the camera which is capable of doing the pixel shift raw processing, and as I said earlier, there is a patched version of dcraw (dcrawps) that can process the pixel shift raw files.

There has been a lot of confusion about all this and I do apologise if I haven't been clear, but it does seem like some of what I have writ hasn't been read, so if still in doubt, please review the thread and it may become clearer .



is there any way(eg a setting in camera) to simply combine the images in camera as a single raw file so that the resultant raw file from pixel shifting is a single file(some sort of gain control or something like that).

As I think I said previously, I am not really sure if the K-1 is advanced over the K-3 II in this regard. The K-3 II simply saves all 4 raw pixel shift images in the one raw file, there is no combining, or processing of the raws in-camera when raw is the save format.
We may be at cross purposes here, I am assuming you mean 'is there a camera setting to save a single pixel shift raw, not requiring any out of camera processing to combine the 4 images?', and the answer to that is 'not with the K-3 II, and I'm not aware that the K-1 is different'.
To reiterate, with the K-3 II the pixel shift raw file contains 4 images,which is the the reason it is 100+ MB in size.

Cheers,
Terry

[Kym]

Pre-review http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/pentax-k1/pentax-k1A.HTM

[Kym]

Converts to around $2,510 and CRK are pretty good on pricing.
Eg. my K-3 was within $100 of the B&H price after shipping.

[Kym]

Popular photography http://www.popphoto.com/pentax-debuts-their-first-full-frame-dslr-k-1

[Kym]

Official K-1 site http://www.pentax.com/en/k-1/

[Kym]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_IRvqy9Eug

[Kym]

Cnet review http://www.cnet.com/products/pentax-k-1/

[Kym]

Probably not relevant as no one here shoots :plogo: anymore :D

Pentax release a downsized 35mm camera ... remember the flagship is the Pentax 645z MF.
Canikon don't have a real pro camera; i.e. larger than 35mm.
(Historically pro's shot MF and larger, 35mm was hobbyist territory)

:lol2:

[Lance B]

Converts to around $2,510 and CRK are pretty good on pricing.
Eg. my K-3 was within $100 of the B&H price after shipping.

They may be shipping in Japanese Yen, so the price may not be that high, possibly low two thousands.

[tduell]

I see the Aust. distributor has the K-1 on their website for $3188.90, but there is chatter (PentaxForums) that dealers are setting a price somewhere around $2800-2900.

Cheers,
Terry

[arthurking83]

I see the Aust. distributor has the K-1 on their website for $3188.90, but there is chatter (PentaxForums) that dealers are setting a price somewhere around $2800-2900.

Cheers,
Terry

Yeah but do note that the people making those price decisions seem to be affected by some drugs(illicit or otherwise) as the pricing structure is just a tad convoluted on that site.

K3 Body only listing is @ $1518.00

yet the K3-II body only listing is @ $1349.00 :confused:

ps. it's almost certain that someone has mucked up the website and confused the two listings(ie. should be switched around). The cameras plus lens kits seem to make more sense price wise.

[tduell]

Yes, I saw the K-3 and K-3 II pricing. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

Cheers,
Terry

[tduell]

The distributor has updated their website price, now shown as $2899.
Getting better, but still room for improvement.

Cheers,
Terry

[Steve Axford]

I wonder how Pentax can have a price that is heaps better than Canon or Nikon or Sony? Is this a strategy to to have a "loss leader" or is it some new found efficiencies?
I also wonder if a shot taken using pixel shift at 1 second exposure (ie 4 secs total) and ISO 800 would have similar noise to a non-ps shot taken at 4secs and iso 200?
Shame about the lack of good video, but I guess that doesn't matter to most people here.

[MissionMan]

I wonder how Pentax can have a price that is heaps better than Canon or Nikon or Sony? Is this a strategy to to have a "loss leader" or is it some new found efficiencies?
I also wonder if a shot taken using pixel shift at 1 second exposure (ie 4 secs total) and ISO 800 would have similar noise to a non-ps shot taken at 4secs and iso 200?
Shame about the lack of good video, but I guess that doesn't matter to most people here.

I think that is marketing strategy. They need to penetrate an established market. That means you can't price yourself the same because you don't have the selection of lenses and accessories to compete. It gives you a chance to build your customer base and improve your margins later. Same as a new pro photographer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tduell]

I wonder how Pentax can have a price that is heaps better than Canon or Nikon or Sony? Is this a strategy to to have a "loss leader" or is it some new found efficiencies?
I also wonder if a shot taken using pixel shift at 1 second exposure (ie 4 secs total) and ISO 800 would have similar noise to a non-ps shot taken at 4secs and iso 200?
Shame about the lack of good video, but I guess that doesn't matter to most people here.

That's a good question. From what Pentax (Ricoh) have said it seems that they are expecting the market to be existing Pentax users which would suggest that the price isn't aimed at undercutting the competition.
Re the noise question, that's also a good one. I'll have to test that.

Cheers,
Terry

[swifty]

I wonder how Pentax can have a price that is heaps better than Canon or Nikon or Sony? Is this a strategy to to have a "loss leader" or is it some new found efficiencies?
I also wonder if a shot taken using pixel shift at 1 second exposure (ie 4 secs total) and ISO 800 would have similar noise to a non-ps shot taken at 4secs and iso 200?
Shame about the lack of good video, but I guess that doesn't matter to most people here.

I think noise characteristics could be quite similar given the total exposure is the same (assuming the same aperture is used). But in practice its quite possible the sensor shift process and combining data could introduce more read noise. If the sensor is truly ISOless, then in theory I think it should be the same but although read noise is very low on the Sony 36MP sensor, its not quite ISOless yet.
This is disregarding any thermal noise differences between a longer shutter speed vs a sensor shift mechanism if that is a factor at all. It'd be interesting to find out when the camera arrive in photographer's hands.

The pricing and the poorer video specs are probably indirectly related. The sensor is not new and the video bar has moved since the sensor was originally designed. But because its not new, yield and pricing on this sensor is probably very good allowing Pentax to price it very aggressively.

[Steve Axford]

I guess we will have to wait until the camera is shipped. Who makes the sensor?

[Lance B]

I guess we will have to wait until the camera is shipped. Who makes the sensor?

I would say it is the same Sony sensor as that which is in the D800/D800E/D810.

[Steve Axford]

I thought it probably was. The price makes more sense now as that chip could be cheaper now, or perhaps there was a technology swap??? It will be interesting to see who picks up the PS technology. There were rumours that Canon was interested, perhaps Sony are too.

[tduell]

There has been some 'chatter' on PentaxForums that the sensor isn't the same as D810 et al, but very difficult to come to any conclusion as to how factual that was.

Cheers,
Terry

[arthurking83]

I would say it is the same Sony sensor as that which is in the D800/D800E/D810.

For sure it will be.
36Mp 24x26 frame sensor .. who else makes such a device?

So with this in mind, the (low)price of the camera is most likely due to already established technology.

Like Swifty commented on pricing and yield ...
That is, the sensor has been around since 2012, still relevant as a technology and Pentax has some (again already established) tech that can linked to this sensor to create new features(pixel shift) .. etc. etc.

And I think the low price is simply due to Pentax's philosophy of lesser corporate greed.

If you compare a pro level APS-C sensor camera from Pentax(ie. K3 lineup against both Nikon's (D300/500 or Canon's 7D series) the Pentax has always had a price advantage from new release status!

Nikon's have always been overpriced(by Nikon .. not the dealers) and Canon's have mainly been on the reasonable side .. but Pentax has had a well mannered pricing regime ever since I can recall.

[mudman]

this may be a silly question, or already covered here, if i buy a K1, will the image quality be affected using my current lenses. they are, i assume configured for AFS/C cameras

[Kym]

this may be a silly question, or already covered here, if i buy a K1, will the image quality be affected using my current lenses. they are, i assume configured for AFS/C cameras

Basically no.
Any Pentax K mount lens that is a 35mm lens (e.g. FA series) will be ok.
Any lens that is specifically APS-C (DA series) can be used in crop mode, or they will vignette.

See: http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/lens/k/

And: http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/japan/products/lens/images/K_Mount_Lens.pdf <<Roadmap picture

The same for 3rd party lenses. I have 9 K-mount lenses only 2 are APS-C only.

Edit: Sigma DC series are APS-C and DG are 35mm, both will work and the K-1 can run in APS-C mode.

[Kym]

Will be interesting to see what US$1799 translates to when CRK get stock, they have managed to keep some of the lenses comparable to US$. Hopefully not over $A2500.

Looks like the starting price will be $2,800 as quoted by a couple of dealers (Ted's and Photographic Wholesalers)

[arthurking83]

18-250 almost certainly won't cover the K1's full frame.
Although, saying that, at least the lens will mount onto the camera and you can shoot in crop mode if that's helpful.
You obviously only get 15Mp resultant image but that's still heaps.
(more on this later)

Dunno about Pentax 100 macro tho. Dunno nothing about this lens .. best to check it out yerself.

Sigma 50-500 is a 135 format lens, so no problems with that one either.

As for the crop lens.
After I got my D800E a few years ago, I ummed and ahhed for a long time as to which wide angle lens I wanted to get for it.
Took me more than a year to finally decide(idiot me went to a show and played with Nikon's 16-35/4 VR and the 18-35 AF-S lenses too .. as I had my heart set on a 14-24/2.8.
But I also wanted to be as wide as I could possibly go too .. and thought hard about getting the Sigma 12-24II as well.

But until I actually decided what to do, I kept on using the humble little Sigma 10-20mm lens I've had since I got my first DSLR back in 2006!
While it obviously can't cover the full D800 frame, that never bothered me so much, and always had it in mind to crop the resultant images.
The one significant advantage of shooting with the D800 + 10-20, rather than still using the much easier to frame D300, was that I could crop more than the APS-C frame that the D300 could do.
I could crop the D800 image to a 1:1 frame format, therefore allowing more of the frame to be captured.
So for a very short time, I shot the D800 and 10-20 in Dx crop mode(just to save hassles later), but then soon went back to the full frame and cropped in PP at home once I was happy with the image framing.
Cropping in PP is actually super easy anyhow, as you can batch this in some software easily.
As a rough estimate, I'd say that the D800 + 10-20 lens would give me about a 13mm lens FOV when cropped to 1:1 format, but with heavy vignetting in the corners(which I didn't mind too much anyhow).

After a year, I ended up getting the Sigma 12-24 lens as a temporary wide angle with the idea that I was going to get the Nikon 16-35/4VR lens as the other more versatile wide angle lens(ie. filters and VR and so forth).
Still haven't got the Nikon lens yet!

so, don't be worried about lens use if you're thinking you'd like a new camera to play with.
I'd say at the least getting the K-1 will give you a massive increase in dynamic range compared to what you already have in your camera.
(that was one other significant step up I saw in the D800 from the D300 too!)
Once you have the camera, just use what you have, and can, and are willing to endure .. and then look at new lens options at your leisure .. ie. if and when you can afford/justify them.

[Cage]

......... lesser corporate greed.


An oxymoron if ever I've seen one. :lol2:

[swifty]

For sure it will be.
36Mp 24x26 frame sensor .. who else makes such a device?


Only Sony that I know of so most are assuming this although we won't know for sure until Chipworks pulls one apart and put it under their microscope.
But economically I can't imagine Pentax using any other sensor developed just for a K1 which would be a low volume seller. The costs would be huge and not in line with the RRP. Whereas the Sony 36MP sensor has already been shared amongst the Nikon D800/800E/810 and Sony A7r.
Of course Pentax will add their own 'toppings' on the sensor so image characteristics will differ a bit.
But as you wrote earlier on in the thread, primary specs like FPS that are based on bandwidth can't differ much no matter how much better the supporting electronics are.

[arthurking83]

....
Of course Pentax will add their own 'toppings' on the sensor so image characteristics will differ a bit.....

For sure Pentax will have specified their own toppings .. stuff like color filter array microlenses and whatever else that goes on top.

Pentax has had a good history of extracting more performance out of their sensors than Sony has .. and probably a bit better than Nikon has in past model that have used the 'same' sensor.

Whether this is all down to software, either in camera or externally, or due to Pentax specifying slight variations on the sensor .. who really knows(other than Sony/Pentax/Nikon).

[Glen1]

Well, I for one, can't wait for the new K1 to start selling. I don't want one (can't afford it), but there's sure to be some low-mileage K3's on the market. Yay!!

Regards
Glen1

[Kym]

Dunno about Pentax 100 macro tho. Dunno nothing about this lens .. best to check it out yerself.


The Pentax 100mm macro is a D FA ... i.e. 35mm format :)

[robma47]

Its about time for a full frame, hope it lives up to expectations.

[Kym]

At least 5 new D FA lenses ... http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/japan/products/lens/images/K_Mount_D_FA_Lens_Roadmap.pdf

[Lance B]

I am sure that the 15-30 f2.8 is a rebadged Tamron and if so, it is a real gem. Just got the Tamron for my Nikon D810 and love it, as good as the Nikon 14-24 but with a longer zoom range and VC! If you like wide angle, then I implore you to get the 15-30.

[Snpsht]

Given that over the last year or two I have purchased the famous Pentax "three amigos" (FA 31, FA43 and FA77 limiteds), which are all FF lenses and render truly wonderfully on an APSC and should be even better on their native format, and given the crop mode is available for my other lenses...or that I could simply crop off the unattractive bits in PP....I am sort of excited.

Haven't yet pre-ordered, but really don't know how long I'll be able to resist.

YAY PENTAX!!!!!

I'll be hanging onto my K-3, though, as it is an excellent camera in its own right.

[tduell]

Given that over the last year or two I have purchased the famous Pentax "three amigos" (FA 31, FA43 and FA77 limiteds), which are all FF lenses and render truly wonderfully on an APSC and should be even better on their native format, and given the crop mode is available for my other lenses...or that I could simply crop off the unattractive bits in PP....I am sort of excited.

Haven't yet pre-ordered, but really don't know how long I'll be able to resist.

YAY PENTAX!!!!!

I'll be hanging onto my K-3, though, as it is an excellent camera in its own right.

You'll probably give in sooner than later :D. With a good investment in good K mount FF lenses it's probably the way to go.
I'm currently telling myself that I'll wait until I see some proper tests and reviews. I'm particularly interested in how it handles higher ISOs.
I had a K-30, which I handed on to my son when I bought the K-3 II. I'm finding the K-3 II is a very nice camera which I'll keep, but it's not as low noise as the K-30.

Cheers,
Terry

[Snpsht]

Yes, I too have had that experience - when I bought the K-3, I passed my K-5 to my daughter in law who needed a DSLR for a uni course, and have missed its better low light performance.

Apparently the low light performance of the K-1 is exceptional.

I'm really liking the look of the articulating screen too as I am older, and getting an articulating screen into weird positions for a shot is preferable to trying to get my body into weird positions

....and the pixel shift will apparently compensate for some movement in the subject, so should be more useful for landscapes than the K-3II's version (which I haven't tried).

I may end up being an early adopter.

[Kym]

Hands on review of preview model... http://www.pentaxforums.com/articles/review-news/k-1-hands-on-first-impressions.html

[tduell]

A comparison between K-1 and D810 has been published here http://cameradecision.com/compare/Pentax-K-1-vs-Nikon-D810.
I would think it is a bit premature as it can only rely K-1 specs that have been made available to date.
I can't comment on any errors related to the D810 but it omits to mention the software AA filter on the K-1 and I didn't see the GPS/astrotracer mentioned.

Cheers,
Terry

[Lance B]

A comparison between K-1 and D810 has been published here http://cameradecision.com/compare/Pentax-K-1-vs-Nikon-D810.
I would think it is a bit premature as it can only rely K-1 specs that have been made available to date.
I can't comment on any errors related to the D810 but it omits to mention the software AA filter on the K-1 and I didn't see the GPS/astrotracer mentioned.

Cheers,
Terry

I had to laugh when I read the summary, "It has better general image quality" referring to the Pentax K-1. I don't know how they can come to that conclusion when no one has done image comparisons! Credibility goes out the window, I'm afraid.

[tduell]

I had to laugh when I read the summary, "It has better general image quality" referring to the Pentax K-1. I don't know how they can come to that conclusion when no one has done image comparisons! Credibility goes out the window, I'm afraid.

Yes, it is a bit silly to be saying stuff like that. Ricoh have released a few sample images, but they don't allow comparisons to be made.
At best one can use this to look at the comparative specs, although there are errors in them as well.

Cheers,
Terry

[arthurking83]

.... Credibility goes out the window, I'm afraid.

:th3:

Sounds like a page straight out of the Ken Rockwell manual for reviews!

I'd also like to know exactly what feature the K-1 has over the D810, that makes it a better camera for sports! :confused013
They give the K-1 a score of 100 points for sport shooting(and the D810 approx 90-ish .. hard to tell with the graphic) .. based on what shooting experience?

And if it does in fact score 100 points(out of what, mind you) .. how does that compare with sports specialist cameras such as a Nikon Dn series or Canon 1 series?

... Oh! I just had a look and the D5 scores just slightly under 100 on the graph .. maybe 99 or so.
So with that, they're saying that the K-1 is a better sports camera than a D5? :rolleyes:

For credibility to "go out the window", an assumption has to be made that there was credibility to begin with.
From the comparison with the D5, that assumption is not looking likely! :D

[Lance B]

Yeah, I wondered about the 100 points for sports score as well. Knowing how Pentax's AF is never really all that fast and also their lenses aren't that fast to focus, one wonders how they can come up with the K-1 better for sports than the D810 which has blindingly fast AF when attached to my "sports lenses, like the 70-200 f2.8 VRII, 300 f2.8 VRII and 400 f2.8E FL VR, all of which are bread and butter "sports lenses". :confused013

Now, there is no way in this whole wide world that the K-1 would be better for sports than the D5!! That's just absurd.

The other factor is that Penax has no current fast f2.8 tele lenses (300 f2.8, 400 f2.8) which are the bread and butter lenses for sports. Yes, Pentax has just introduced the 70-200 f2.8, but as far as I know, no one has tested it on a K-1.

Maybe they need to give themselves a credinility factor of "0" in their scoring.

[arthurking83]

.....

The other factor is that Penax has no current fast f2.8 tele lenses (300 f2.8, 400 f2.8) which are the bread and butter lenses for sports. Yes, Pentax has just introduced the 70-200 f2.8, but as far as I know, no one has tested it on a K-1.

....

Their 70-200/2.8 is a rebadged Tamron without the VC.
Great lens, fast AF, but not as fast as the Nikon's 70-200's.

[tduell]

I see someone on PentaxForums found a website that has the same subjects shot by K-1 and D810 at a range of ISO.
These images might be helpful.
I haven't had time to have a good look as yet, I think the full sized images probably have to be downloaded to be properly assessed.
The links for the K-1 and D810 pages are as follows...

http://www.cyberphoto.se/info.php?article=K-1

http://www.cyberphoto.se/info.php?article=nid810

Cheers,
Terry

[Lance B]

Their 70-200/2.8 is a rebadged Tamron without the VC.
Great lens, fast AF, but not as fast as the Nikon's 70-200's.

Yes, I have heard that the Pentax is a rebadged Tamron, but the elements/groups are different, Tamron is 23/17 and the Pentax is 19/16. Is this simply attributed to no VC, that would make it a little different than simply a rebadged Tamron without VC. My point is, the Pentax 15-30 f2.8 is also supposed to be a rebadged Tamron 15-30 f2.8 VC but without VC, yet in this case the number of elements and groups is the same 18/13.

[tduell]

I see someone on PentaxForums found a website that has the same subjects shot by K-1 and D810 at a range of ISO.
These images might be helpful.
I haven't had time to have a good look as yet, I think the full sized images probably have to be downloaded to be properly assessed.
The links for the K-1 and D810 pages are as follows...

http://www.cyberphoto.se/info.php?article=K-1

http://www.cyberphoto.se/info.php?article=nid810

Cheers,
Terry

I am having trouble deciphering these pages, the web site is swedish and assume the language is swedish.
It would appear that the test shots are not identical conditions.
I have grabbed the first of shots for each camera at ISO 12800, but there are two sets for each camera and I don't know what the different sets represent.
The subject is not exactly the same, as you will see from the website, but has the same items in almost the same arrangement.

The D810 image was shot 13/1/2014, f/8, 1/2500, 50mm, ISO 12800.
The K-1 image was shot 18/3/2016, f/8, 1/1000, 35mm, ISO 12800.
So I assume the lighting is different.
On the surface it would appear that the K-1 has lower noise than the D810 for these conditions, but there too many unknowns.
Anyone who can read swedish who can tell us about the description on the website for the two sets of test conditions at the range of ISO values for each camera?

Cheers,
Terry

[ameerat42]

TD.
Right click on the link, choose "search google for...", then when the results come up, click on
"Translate this page". This is for FFox. I think you can click a button for Chrome.
https://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=http://www.cyberphoto.se/info.php%3Farticle%3DK-1&prev=search

[Jorge Arguello]

Pentax has been a very appealing camera. I would like to try it.

[Kym]

http://petapixel.com/2016/03/21/testing-pentax-k-1-mud-shower/

Mud and water proof!

[tduell]

The K-1 web site has been updated and now includes more detailed specs. http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/products/k-1/index.html

Cheers,
Terry