View Full Version : If you are thinking of getting into Astrophotography, may I suggest choosing another genre
OK, I'm going to have a rant !
Two things have always fascinated me since I was a wee small lad, birds, and the night sky.
I've dabbled in birding, still am, have had some minor success, and know my limitations, both personal, and equipment wise.
I've decided to explore my other interest, nightscapes, where you marry a beautiful night sky to a terrestrial object. Sounds easy enough, at least the stars don't move as quickly as hyper-active little birds. Well stars do move, but a little more predictably. So, what gear do I need, or more importantly what gear can I afford that will give me results that I''d be happy with, and I am a bloody hard marker on my own work.
After many weeks of surfing the internet I decided on a Skywatcher EQ mount, apparently suitable for astro imaging, with either the HEQ5 or the EQ6 mounts seeming to suit my requirements.
What a mishmash of mis-information I found, the worst offender being the manufacturer. They are all over the place like a mad woman's breakfast (sorry if that is no longer politically correct) with no real pathway to current model availability. Every website I looked at gave conflicting information.
I settled on, and bought, an HEQ5. It arrived, completely mis-represented by it's description, was faulty, was returned, and refunded. The mob that I got it from, Tasco Australia, the Australian Skywatcher distributor, have absolutely no concept of what 'customer satisfaction' means, and I think that term would show up in their dictionary as an oxymoron.
As I sit here, typing this, smoke is not so gently wafting out of my ears and nostrils, and I'm thinking I may have a fuse about to blow.
However, I'm the type of person that 'hangs in there', likes a challenge, and believes that the system can be beaten, if you persevere. I'm in the process of ordering another mount, an EQ6 this time, and hope that I will eventually triumph in my search for the right, for me, gear.
I will keep you informed of the outcome of my quest, and sign off with the musical score from The Man of La Mancha softly playing in the background.
ameerat42
11-08-2015, 8:48pm
Well, I hope the likes of Nardes or NChant get to look at this post, Cage. I woudder thought that was the antz-pantz of mounts - well, of an affordable nature, and I had my eye on it a 2ple of years ago.
Now I'll wait and see what others say, as I'm not sure what I could say that would help.
Am.
Mark L
12-08-2015, 10:16pm
As I sit there waiting for a bird to arrive , and then when I look up to see if there's a bird in the sky, I'll think of you Kev (well occasionally ;)).
Love the night skies but for some reason I've never really wanted to get photos of them. Happy high heavens hunting.:th3:
You cannot beat the system. It has been designed for people like you.:nod: Just when you thought you were winning they will throw another spanner in the works. And they have plenty of spanners. They also breed incompetence in these places. I think I saw the smoke wafting from that direction. :pirlaugh2: Good luck with your endeavours. Nothing like a challenge. cheers Brian
swifty
13-08-2015, 11:14am
Turn it into a positive, Kev. I know you're still going through the annoyance currently but surely someone else would go through the same if reliable information wasn't available.
Do a write up once you get things sorted and it'll benefit the whole photographic community.
nardes
13-08-2015, 12:41pm
I’m not sure what was wrong with the HEQ5 (is it the HEQ5 SynScan GPS model), but from what I have read on the SKywatcher website, it is the baby brother of the EQ6.:confused013
“This heavy-duty HEQ5 Pro mount is a smaller version of the sturdy EQ6 Pro mount”.
http://ca.skywatcher.com/_english/02_mounts/02_detail.php?sid=59
With that, I would be concerned about your expectations about the EQ6 in terms of what it can deliver compared to the EQ5; I hope you will not go through the same disappointment.:)
When I first started in astronomy I purchased a Vixen GP mount (made in Japan) which had 2 motors for moving the telescope (or camera/lens) to compensate for the earth’s daily rotation. The Right Ascension (RA) motor basically drives the RA axis at a rate of 1 revolution in 23 hours 56 mins, thus tracking the stars as they appear to move in the night sky. RA can be thought of as analogous to lines of Longitude on the Earth.
The Declination (DEC) motor is not used in plain tracking, it provides for moving the telescope in Declination which is analogous to lines of Latitude.
To get the benefit of this tracking, you have to Polar Align the mount so that the RA axis is pointing accurately at the South Celestial Pole (SCP), that imaginary point in the skies around which the Earth appears to revolve on its axis. The SCP for me in Brisbane is some 11 degrees East of Magnetic South as shown by a compass. It will be different for you.
Where the HEQ5 and the EQ6 differ from my Vixen GP mount is that they incorporate advanced electronics and a computerised hand controller that provides amazing functionality for searching for objects and then commanding the mount to “GoTo” those objects and centre them in the eyepiece of a telescope or camera lens. But, you have to ensure that the mount is set up and aligned correctly so “it knows where it is” before it can GoTo an object in the database.
I found the learning curve very steep and several times I felt like bailing out, until I realised that these mounts more like scientific instruments rather than consumer equipment. As my knowledge of astronomy, astronomical concepts, the celestial sphere, how the stars move, etc. grew I finally began to enjoy the hobby. :)
If modern mounts are GPS enabled they should, be able to assist with the set up procedure once you have got the mount outside and aligned to the SCP. Some mounts have a mode where you don’t have to set up the mount to align with the SCP (mainly for visual observing). You can just plonk the tripod down and the mount will figure out where it is and can then give you a tour of the skies.
Good luck with the EQ6 and I hope you continue your endeavours to master the concepts, hardware, firmware and software!:th3:
Cheers
Dennis
Hi Dennis,
My disappointment was not with the HEQ5 per se, but rather with what I received not being what was offered.
The ad for the HEQ5 that I bought stated that the mount was upgradeable to GoTo capability merely by changing the handset to a SynScan handset. That would indicate that it was a Syntrek mount with the stepper motors and it wasn't, having only the basic RA and Dec motors.
It was also supposed to have an illuminated Polar Scope (it wasn't illuminated) and was North Hemisphere only, missing Octans being engraved on the reticule.
And just to really pee me off, it was faulty, with the 1X East to West function (the sidereal one you use for tracking) not working.
Mate, I've done heaps of research on these mounts and know what I should be getting. I'd have preferred the HEQ5 mount for the weight factor, being 10kgs as opposed to the EQ6's 16kgs, but then the extra stability will be a good trade-off. Gawd, I'm going to have to do some exercises just to pick it up.
Anyway, hopefully the EQ6 will arrive in new condition, and do what it should. I do realise that although this mount is a bit above the cheap 'n' nasty stuff, it is a long, long way from the top of the line gear. I was just a bit short of the readies for a nice Losmandy G8.
Cheers
Kev
ameerat42
13-08-2015, 8:48pm
G:eek:SH! Now I agree with you. It IS a litany of inC:rolleyes:MPetence!!
The thought is evolving in my mind that somewhere, out there, somebody, or something, doesn't want me to take their picture.
My new EQ6 arrived today and I eagerly started unpacking it.
First the nice new shiny white tripod, looks really solid.
However the un-boxing didn't proceed as expected when I discovered that I had a shiny black mount to go with my shiny white tripod. OK, I can live with that and the white tripod feet will be easier to see in the dark. And the black and white look quite smart together.
Um, hold the phone, where are the counterweights ? And where is the other mounting plate lock knob ?
Shouldn't there be some instructions included ?
And just to rub salt into my wounds the mounting jigger I bought for the HEQ5 doesn't fit the EQ6.
Rang the dealer and he is sending me the missing bits and is providing me with some instructions.
It's probably just as well it's clouded over and rain is predicted for the next week, or I may have had a monumental hissy fit !!
PS: And Brian, don't you dare say "I told you so". :lol2:
ameerat42
21-08-2015, 5:10pm
Kevin. DROP everything and GO and WORK at that store!!!:eek:
Steady on there Am, this is a family type forum.
No need to go dropping four letter words, and particularly that 'W' word. :lol2:
ameerat42
21-08-2015, 5:27pm
S:orrie. What was I thinking?:D:D
Wow, what a litany of blunders …:(
Did you order the equipment direct from the importer, or was it via a bricks and mortar astronomy shop? I’ve experienced the occasional minor hiccough when purchasing astronomy gear from B&M shops, but nothing like your experience as these shops are usually owned/operated/staffed by keen amateur astronomers.
Hop you get it all sorted soon.:)
Cheers
Dennis
Cheers Dennis.
I've tracked down a Manual for the Orion Atlas EQ, same mount, different badge.
I bought it from an online store based in Adelaide. I don't think the basic mount is made anymore but it is brand new and was a fair price. I'm saving up for the SynScan upgrade kit which will give me the stepper motors and GoTo capability.
And the saga continues ........
A courier arrived yesterday with my missing bits. Well sort of, only one of the two missing counterweights arrived. :mad:
I phoned the seller and got the response "Oh, does it come with two?" Well, :Doh: you're in the business and should know.
The missing saddle lock knob did turn up but no longer needed as I've given the old poorly designed saddle the flick.
OK, one counterweight will do the job with only my camera mounted, just. I've sorted how to mount the camera using my Kirk monopod ball head and my Wimberley Sidekick. I'm only waiting now on some socket head screws to get it all together.
Anyway, here's some pics of where I'm at.
First, the Black, White and Chrome mount and tripod. Looks pretty damn flash, hey?
119611
The old saddle puck, dreadful design
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The new saddle puck, much better
119613
Camera mounted, ballhead just tacked to plate for photo
119614
I think I can see a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel .............
PS: That little lot tips the scales at around 32kgs and add in the gel battery at 13kgs, plus bits 'n' pieces, and I'm now looking for a lightweight trolley.
Mary Anne
02-09-2015, 9:25pm
Pretty Flash is right Kev, and I bet you will have lots of fun with it..
Pretty Flash is right Kev, and I bet you will have lots of fun with it..
I'm sure I will Mary Anne, and possibly some frustrations, but it is all worth it when you eventually get it right.
The backdrop is my lounge-room that I should be painting instead of mucking around with this stuff.
Hi Kev
Sweet looking set up.
Not sure if you have fully assembled the mount/tripod combo, but did you get the “spreader” that fits on the short bar under the tripod head. This then spreads the legs to fix them, making them more stable.
http://ca.skywatcher.com/_english/02_mounts/02_detail.php?sid=58
Cheers
Dennis
Kev,
Not sure exactly which EQ6 you have, most of the recent models can be controlled with a PC (i.e. no handbox necessary) using EQmod (free) software and a simple USB (or serial if you have a very old laptop) interface. The tripod mix is a bit odd, the EQ6 came in black, the EQ6PRO mount and tripod was all white, so you have a mix from two models, no problem as both are physically identical.
For anyone else thinking of venturing in to AP, my suggestion is to firstly join Iceinspace astro forum, look, learn and ask questions. Seek out any local groups who meet in your area and maybe attend one of the star partys throughout the year, if you can wait, meet with others and discuss the pros and cons of mounts and the best places to buy from.
Hi Kev
Sweet looking set up.
Not sure if you have fully assembled the mount/tripod combo, but did you get the “spreader” that fits on the short bar under the tripod head. This then spreads the legs to fix them, making them more stable.
http://ca.skywatcher.com/_english/02_mounts/02_detail.php?sid=58
Cheers
Dennis
Hi Dennis,
I did get the spreader shelf, just didn't fit it for the pic.
Cheers
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Kev,
Not sure exactly which EQ6 you have, most of the recent models can be controlled with a PC (i.e. no handbox necessary) using EQmod (free) software and a simple USB (or serial if you have a very old laptop) interface. The tripod mix is a bit odd, the EQ6 came in black, the EQ6PRO mount and tripod was all white, so you have a mix from two models, no problem as both are physically identical.
For anyone else thinking of venturing in to AP, my suggestion is to firstly join Iceinspace astro forum, look, learn and ask questions. Seek out any local groups who meet in your area and maybe attend one of the star partys throughout the year, if you can wait, meet with others and discuss the pros and cons of mounts and the best places to buy from.
Hi Phil,
I could probably list about fifteen different model codes I've found for the EQ6/NEQ6, however there were really only three main variants, the basic EQ6 with tracking motors only, the SynTrek version with stepper motors but only a basic hand controller, and the Pro/SynScan version with the stepper motors and the GoTo hand controller.
Synta seem to have dropped the basic EQ6 around 2010/2011. I'm guesstimating my model to be one of the later ones as it has the polar scope illumination brightness control on it. The early EQ6's came with 1 1/2" diameter tripod legs however the white ones I received were the later 2" ones. Got lucky there.
Unfortunately computer control is only an option with the stepper motors and the updated control board, and I have the upgrade kit on my 'to get list'.
I've joined IIS and also Stargazers Lounge (DarkKnight) and have found a wealth of info and lots of folk willing to give advice. I'm also in the process of joining the NSW Astronomical Society with a view to going to their dark sky site at Wiruna.
Did you get any shots of the recent Aurora? And thanks for your helpful comments.
Cheers
Kev
With the Pacific Peso in free-fall mode I decided to pay a deposit on an upgrade kit at a reasonable price, plus they are getting very scarce.
Be baked beans on toast for a week or so. :lol2:
ameerat42
05-09-2015, 12:14pm
With the Pacific Peso in free-fall ...
Be baked beans on toast for a week or so. :lol2:
--Only a week for you? Hah!:o
martycon
15-09-2015, 11:27pm
Thanks for the Chuckle!
Thought I'd update this saga.
The stepper motor kit arrived for the EQ6, I fitted it, and it worked perfectly. :th3:
So now I was ready to take some awesome nebula shots, sort of. Did some testing in my yard and it soon became apparent that my focusing method was not at all up to scratch. Got a Bahtinov focus mask , did some test shots, ran inside, looked at them on the desktop, ran back outside, did some more test shots, ran back inside etc, etc, etc ...... Gawd, this is a pain.
The answer, of course, was a laptop. Bought a 'cheap 'n' cheerful' Toshiba Satellite, slow as a wet week, so I swapped out the 500GB spindle drive for a 128GB SSD and flicked the 2GB of RAM for an 8GB stick. It's now quite a reasonable unit and able to handle CS6 easily. :th3:
During this testing period it was becoming apparent to me that I was soon going to look for reasons not to load all this 40Kg of gear into my ute, in particular the 16Kg head. Being in my declining years I contemplated how much longer I would be comfortable with it. Procrastinated over the decision for a while, (I've taken procrastination to an art form), and came to the realisation that I really needed the HEQ5 Pro that I'd decided on in the first place.
Put it up for sale and it's now gone to a new home in the Pilbara.
OK, back to square 1. :eek:
Used the proceeds from the EQ6 to buy a new HEQ5. Did a bit of negotiating and managed to buy it from a local B&M store at the right price. :th3:
Are we there yet?
Not quite. Hmm, not real happy with my proposed mounting method as it looks a bit dicky to me. During my research it occurred to me that to get the awesome shots that I expected I really should look at some sort of tracking device. So grabbed a mounting plate that allowed my camera to be mounted on one side and a tracking scope on the other. Added a 50mm WO 'scope and a ZWO ASI 120MM-S camera to go with it.
Is that a light I can see at the end of the tunnel?
I've probably been ready to do some serious shooting for about five weeks, however there is another denominator in this equation. The bloody weather. :eek: You only have a narrow window of opportunity of less than a week either side of the new moon. In the last five weeks there have been two very clear nights, both after 45°C days, and the night sky was shimmering like a desert mirage. :eek:
And I know, I just bloody well know, :nod: that somewhere not too far down the track I'll wonder how much better my results would be with a dedicated astrophotography telescope than with my much loved Nikon gear.
The new set--up, taken in my lounge room that I should be painting instead of being on here !
130325
hey cage, are you getting into astrophotography, or pumping iron in the dark:D:D
Must have missed this post originally but it gave me a chuckle this morning. I won't even pretend to understand your new set up Kev but hope it all goes well and Mother Nature comes to the party with clear skies for you. Looking forward to seeing some awesome nebulas from you. Next step - building an observatory on your property.
ameerat42
10-04-2017, 8:30am
(I will consider your advice, Cage, and look into scanning electron microscopy instead:eek:)
The whole assembly looks so integrated, which (part) is the stepper motor?
hey cage, are you getting into astrophotography, or pumping iron in the dark:D:D
Muddie, to date it's pretty much been the latter. :eek:
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Must have missed this post originally but it gave me a chuckle this morning. I won't even pretend to understand your new set up Kev but hope it all goes well and Mother Nature comes to the party with clear skies for you. Looking forward to seeing some awesome nebulas from you. Next step - building an observatory on your property.
Glad you find my trials and tribulations amusing Glenda. :lol2: I've actually invented several new swear words.
Unfortunately an observatory is not an option at my current address due to trees and adjoining buildings. :(
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(I will consider your advice, Cage, and look into scanning electron microscopy instead:eek:)
The whole assembly looks so integrated, which (part) is the stepper motor?
Glad you were paying attention Am. :D
The stepper motors are fitted internally and turn the cogs on the RA and Dec axis.
piczzilla
10-04-2017, 10:17am
Insane setup Kev! *whistles* Not sure I understand what's going on in that super looking gear lol~ Can't wait to see the shots you'll get with it. Sorry to hear about the unpleasant experience too (speaking of which, I'm having issues with my IR conversion service too, this kind of experience is not limited to astro it seems...)
Insane setup Kev! *whistles* Not sure I understand what's going on in that super looking gear lol~ Can't wait to see the shots you'll get with it. Sorry to hear about the unpleasant experience too (speaking of which, I'm having issues with my IR conversion service too, this kind of experience is not limited to astro it seems...)
Hi Erny,
Sorry to hear you're having problems with your IR conversion. I'm still going to get my conversion done by LifePixel in the States. I did lots of Googling looking for feedback and they were far and away the ones with the least negative feedback.
Hope you get it sorted. :nod:
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