Formatting cards?

[Mark L]

Just out of interest and maybe for others knowledge.
I formatted my SD card when I got my camera 3 and a half years ago. Have used the same card ever since and never formatted it again. No problems so far (touch wood). I take the card out of the camera an shove it in the computer if that means anything.
On the other hand I've seen others mention they reformat the card every time after transferring photos from them.
Any thoughts?

[ameerat42]

You have to make space on the card somehow. Either you delete the files, or you format the card.
What I do, FWIW, is transfer the files, then when the card is pretty full, transfer them, then format
the card in camera. I have read (somewhere/time) that formatting cards should be done in camera rather
than in a card reader by the computer.

Am.

[mpb]

I format my cards in camera every so often. Not really sure why. I have read that it is good practice.
I assume that it either repair damaged areas or marks them not top be used.

[Hamster]

I download my pics and then format the card in camera at the next use. Why? Because I then don't have the previous shoot on the card, plus, by doing this I have a copy of all the images on the card should the worse happen to my computer before various backups occur (e.g. Time machine).
When I format before my next shoot I assume it will throw up an error should there be a problem with the card.
Finally, I'm sure I read somewhere that formatting it regularly is a good thing, and I haven't yet had a card fail on me.

[Mark L]

You have to make space on the card somehow. Either you delete the files, or you format the card.
What I do, FWIW, is transfer the files, then when the card is pretty full, transfer them, then format
the card in camera.


FWIW and in case it means something. Once files are transferred they are deleted from card. Card has never reached anywhere near it's capacity (pretty full) this way. Why would you keep files on your card once transferred and backed up? lazy?;)

[ricktas]

I format my cards, in the camera, once they start to get a bit full

[farmmax]

I format my cards pretty regularly, particularly if pulled in and out of different computers a lot. I think the main thing is to remove cards from the computer correctly. I've seen problems with cards ripped out of computers and shoved in other laptops/computers, then dumped in cameras. Sometimes switching cards between cameras can also cause problems, particularly if the cameras are auto numbering and loading photos into auto folders.

I always format in camera, not via computer, but the photos are deleted via the computer after I've backed them up.

[ameerat42]

...Why would you keep files on your card once transferred and backed up? lazy?;)...

Partly. But I usu keep em on for a bit and xfer them to other computer as well. But not always.

My method/system is often haphazard/chaotic:D

FWIW: I though you knew this, for what it's worth:cool:

[DacrimL]

I generally transfer the Raw images to one external harddrive, then format the card in the computer.......if removed correctly there should be no problem but every so often even after formatting in the PC I will re-format in camera. So far am still on the one card I bought when I bought the camera.

[arthurking83]

Some cameras can only format with the Fat(or FAT16 file system).

Others can do FAT32.

I try to format in exFAT for the more modern cameras(or devices) that recognise this newer file system.
older cameras may not recognise it tho.
It's a matter of knowing which does and which doesn't.

I prefer to format via the PC, unless I have to format via the camera.
So some error checking while I'm at it .. etc.

Formatting every time isn't essential. It doesn't help to keep the card in better shape, or condition in any way.

[EpicPhotography]

I shoot between 1-3 weddings a week and just make it a habit to format my cards after every shoot (obviously after uploading) but read somewhere to always format your cards from your camera, not your computer. Can't remember why, but after 10 years never had a problem doing it this way :)

[antony]

Thank you Mark L for bringing up this question.

I believe my style is a bit similar to Mark L's. I hardly formats the SD card. I took the card out and load the pictures to the Mac (using Image Capture), then removes the image, and put the SD card back to the camera.

Is there any benefit on re-formatting the SD card, apart from ensuring the maximum space available?

One disadvantage on formatting SD cards is that Image Capture will forget the specified folder I want to save images to. I give each SD cards different name, and they all have their assigned camera to use and folder to save images.
I have different (default) download folder for different cameras. When I have time, I would arrange photos into different folders (using Adobe Bridge).

(I know I am old fashioned... I don't use Lightroom much.)

[arthurking83]

Unless you do a full format(not a quick format), I don't think you are really zeroing out each individual bit of memory space on the card.
A full format will do this.
A quick format will only really wipe the file allocation table(FAT) that tells the software where each data bit is in the memory space.

From observation, I've never seen any camera do a format on a card for more than a few seconds.
To format a 8/16/32Gig memory area would take a few minutes at least .. most likely measured in the range of hours.

So the idea that formatting a card(especially via the camera) to make more space, or to fully delete memory space doesn't make any sense.

A full format would tho, and this would take far longer than I've seen any camera do it.

Formatting in the camera simply ensures that the memory space is formatted in a type that the camera recognises.
ie. on older cameras this may only be of the FAT type, where cameras of not so old vintage would also recognise FAT32 file systems
I know the D800(ie. 2012 era camera) recognises the exFAT file system, a file system created to cater to files larger than 4gigs(ie. video) .. and memory space larger 32g or larger.
FAT32 on addresses up to 32gig. (so if your card is 64gig or more .. it has to be in exFAT for there to be no issues).

If the card is formatted say in NTFS(windows) or HFS(Mac) the camera wouldn't recognise the card .. so formatting it would only set the file system to one that it does.

with some sample images on the card and then formatting it via the camera, it's a trivial matter to recover the sample images that the camera supposedly formatted to extinction.
of course, no new files were added after formatting .. so recovering the so called wiped files was easy.
But not only that, in this quick attempt to see how quickly and easily it would be to do, the recovery software also recovered images shot months ago, obviously from memory space not written too in the past few months .. even from well over a year ago! This, despite that on a couple of occasions I've half filled the card(on a D800 that's quite easy to do :p) and more.

And further to this, I've formatted this card in NTFS(to see) exFAT, FAT32 and FAT file systems to see how it affects performance in any way.

Same with the computer's quick format tool. If you use this only(and not the full format version) .. memory space isn't zeroed out(ie. wiped) .. only the FAT is blanked out so that the card appears to have it's full complement of data again.
All files are written over files that used to be there.

Formatting cards .. it doesn't hurt, but unless you do it properly .. it also doesn't help(much).
Realistically, it's simply an easy/easier way to delete all the files with a one or two click method.

[antony]

All files are written over files that used to be there.

Formatting cards .. it doesn't hurt, but unless you do it properly .. it also doesn't help(much).
Realistically, it's simply an easy/easier way to delete all the files with a one or two click method.
So, there's no potential benefit to format a card via camera if I simply delete some images (on memory card) through computer.
Benefits when I don't delete images through computer.

Thank you.

[arthurking83]

No. It doesn't seem to be the case.

You can try it for yourself:

in the camera just take a few random shots on a blank card. So you end up with two images on the card.
Then simply format it.(in the camera).

Take card out and put it in a reader of some kind .. ( guess the camera via a USB cable should also work fine too).

Now, on the computer don't do anything to the card .... remember the card will be blank as you have formatted it after you took two sample images .. so don't try to open the card to confirm this(it may affect the recovery process).

If you don't already have recovery software, try Piriform's Recuva (https://www.piriform.com/recuva). (windows only .. Mac users will need to find something else)
** This is not an endorsement of the software, but this is what I use for most PC related file recovery when I need too. **
Note that your cards manufacturer may have something for free to download too. Doesn't matter which way you do it tho.

With the memory card now connected to the computer navigate the recovery software to search the card for deleted files.

IF the card has been properly formatted(that is full format) .. no data will exist any longer. A full format zeros out the 0 and 1 data bits all back to zero.
The recovery software will not find any files to recover.

If the recovery software does find any deleted files after you have formatted the card .. then the camera only does a quick format. that is, it only clears the file allocation table .. or index, not the physical bits of info on the card.
Chances are that the recovery software will find many files from long ago too.
It just depends on how many images, or how full you have had the card over time.

Last night I did a full format of my 32g Lexar card that is the primary card used in the D800E. I'm not entirely sure of the process that Windows uses to full format the memory space, but trying again to recover the files from the card was futile, where last night it too Recuva 243secs to recover and save 25.5 Gigabytes and 368 files .. mostly 75mb NEF(raw) files and a few jpg files.

Apparently you can still recover properly formatted over data, if the memory space hasn't been written over again with new data.

The full format took well over 1/2 an hour(I did this during dinner) .. and most likely about 1 hour going by the status bar at the time towards the end of dinner.
The full format has done nothing to recover any extra bits of memory space at all.

My belief is that there is no advantage that the card is in any better shape if it's formatted prior to use in the camera.
The primary reason for formatting in the camera is that you can't do it any other way, or that this may be the only way to get the card formatted to a file system type that the camera recognises.

as an example of a reasonable use for this: I may have an 8Gig card which was formatted for the D800E in exFAT type, but now I want to use it in my D70s.
The D70s doesn't recognise exFAT file system as the camera is much older than the file system.
A msg will most likely pop up onto the LCD screen to tell me to format the card.
Press the two buttons on the camera to do this and the card is now formatted into a known file system type(FAT).

As far as I'm aware a format using the FAT file system doesn't take into account if there are any bad sectors on the memory area. I think some other file system types do check for this during formatting, but not the FAT types.
They simply create a small area which is reserved for the FAT(or index) to tell the device where on the memory space any particular file is located.
It doesn't physically check that the space where the file is going to be written too is not corrupted.

An occasional error checking(of the card) is a better way to waste some time in your day.
It's easy to do, you can set the tool (at least in windows) to do any corrections automatically.
This way you know at least for the next session, when the card is to be used, that there are no errors in the memory space on the card for this shoot.

[ricktas]

The other thing to consider is the quality of the card being used. Memory card can and will fail, and they have a limited number of write cycles. What those cycles are, depends on the card quality. So the more a card is used, formatted, re-used, decreases its lifespan.

[Hamster]

Which is why buying a high quality card is a good idea. Since the number of cycles is so high, you will not reach the limit. Top end cards have lifetime warranties (doesn't help if you lose a wedding shoot though :-))
The other thing to consider if you want to be extra careful is not using a new card for an important shoot since cards have high infant mortality rates. (lifecycle bath tub effect). I.e. They fail when new or old. But if you're that worried and pro wouldn't you be using a camera with two cards and recording to both? :-)

[ricktas]

Which is why buying a high quality card is a good idea. Since the number of cycles is so high, you will not reach the limit. Top end cards have lifetime warranties.

Now that is where people get caught. A lifetime warranty, is not your lifetime, or the lifetime of your camera. It is the lifetime of the card. So if a card dies, then its lifetime warranty has expired. Cause once it dies, it can be deemed that it has reached its lifetime. Lifetime warranties are useless, cause they actual warranty something till it no longer works. When it doesn't work, it is deemed to have reached its lifetime. Stupid that they can still make such warranty claims when they mean nothing.

[Hamster]

Now that is where people get caught. A lifetime warranty, is not your lifetime, or the lifetime of your camera. It is the lifetime of the card. So if a card dies, then its lifetime warranty has expired. Cause once it dies, it can be deemed that it has reached its lifetime. Lifetime warranties are useless, cause they actual warranty something till it no longer works. When it doesn't work, it is deemed to have reached its lifetime. Stupid that they can still make such warranty claims when they mean nothing.

Yes, and no. You're right about them being for the lifetime of the card. And they just replace the card, hence my comment re the wedding photos. However, such a replacement policy is only viable for items that have a relatively low level of failure, otherwise the company in question goes bust replacing them. So, while I see your point, IMHO, they have some value, although admittedly not really for the loss you really care about.
I assumed you're not suggesting that, when a card with a lifetime warranty fails, Sandisk simply says "yes that was the lifetime it achieved, thanks for you custom" and walks away.

[ricktas]

I assumed you're not suggesting that, when a card with a lifetime warranty fails, Sandisk simply says "yes that was the lifetime it achieved, thanks for you custom" and walks away.

yes I am, and yes they have. I know of several occasions where card have failed outside the statutory warranty period and Sandisk have said just that. Three different people, all with cards over 3 years old.

[Hamster]

yes I am, and yes they have. I know of several occasions where card have failed outside the statutory warranty period and Sandisk have said just that. Three different people, all with cards over 3 years old.

I was talking about cards cited as having a lifetime warranty (sorry, I thought the conversation was about this type of warranty).
As far as the example above. I'm not sure what you mean by "statutory warranty", there isn't really such a thing, as far as I'm aware, because according to Australian statutory rights the period of time it is reasonable to expect an item to last varies greatly from item to item (or even for similar items).
Consumer law provides protection and can often make a manufacturers warranty irrelevant, especially their extended warranties.
So in your example above I assume there must have been a fixed manufacturers warranty less than 3 years?? And when a card failed outside of this Sandisk said tough? In this case, if the card didn't last a reasonable time then they would have a claim via their statutory rights (but I don't know the situation). Or maybe over 3 years was a reasonable length of time??
If you're saying the card had a lifetime warranty and Sandisk said on your bike then I'm surprised as I have had friends claim new cards in this situation from Sandisk with no problem. If your friends had problems then they should have contacted the ACCC.

[Mark L]

Thanks everyone for the various views and info.:th3:




IF the card has been properly formatted(that is full format) .. no data will exist any longer. A full format zeros out the 0 and 1 data bits all back to zero.
The recovery software will not find any files to recover.

That may be a reason not to format the card on the computer until everything is backed up.
May also be a reason to format the card on the computer if you're taking suspect photos. Now how do I get those suss photos out of the memory banks of the computer. :lol2:

[arthurking83]

....


That may be a reason not to format the card on the computer until everything is backed up.....

Nope!
Remember, (using Windows) if you right click the card entry in the My Computer list and select Format .. it only does a quick format, that's the 'safe type'.

Unless you deliberately enable the full format option, formatting via a Windows PC (at least) is fairly safe to do. Don't know how it all works on a Mac tho.


ps: and if you're taking suss photos... no amount of deletion, formatting, secure erasing, or strong magnetic interference of those archives(implicated in the containment of suss photos) is safe from laughing eyes.
The level of embarrassment inflicted on the photographer is emphasised even more so, upon their eventual discovery by some elite hdd haxor type. You'll know when they have been recovered too tho .. you'll hear the laughter from here all the way to Mudgee(and back).

Nope!.... all memory spaces containing cruddy images is completely safe from eventual annihilation of any kind. It's the law of photography(and life in general).
If it's crappy, chances are it will linger on forever, and it can't be undone.

But!! when you have created that ripper .. that once in a lifetime, fantasmagorical production that will make you a gazillionaire .. it will become corrupted on that U-bute, super high quality 'branded' memory card.
To cap it off, if you do recover it back at the computer, the software will obviously recover the file to the most insecure and corrupted memory space on your HDD.
All those evil forces of (not only)the future, but the past and present as well, will combine to ensure that this image you trying to secure won't make it past tomorrow. :D

[jim]

The SD Card Association provide an app called the SD Card Formatter, which is claimed to do an optimum job of formatting SD cards. Here:https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4/

By the way, Nikon claim that cards for their cameras can not be formatted on a Mac, only on Windows, presumably because they use FAT. But as Arthur implied, if the camera accepts exFAT, that should work.

[ameerat42]

It's best to ask the salesperson at the time what "lifetime warranty" is supposed to mean (at the time, for it may change later).
Nail down a meaning, at least. In practice, the meaning may not translate to much.
Am.