Facebook

[Steve Axford]

About the only thing I ever hear here about facebook is anger, ridicule and loathing. Several people always refer to in as "failbook", which seems a bit strange since, by almost any standard, it is a raging success. In my life I have seen people get emotionally attached (or the oposite) to all sorts of strange things. I had a friend that would almost go apoplectic if anyone were to compliment a Holden Commodore. He was a Ford man and would refer to the Commodores as "Dunny Doors" or "Comodes". I have seen all sort of bizarre love affairs with computer software, where you would think the lover was talking about a person when they referred to that software and they would really hate the competitive software. Now we have this hatred for facebook. It's a bit odd as facebook serves a useful purpose - if you choose to use it usefully.

[ameerat42]

We all have our pet HAYtes. GRR! FACEbook! GRR! That's why the aliens are holding off visiting us:rolleyes::rolleyes:
If you don't believe that, look at the many conspiracy theories on FB:eek:

Of course FB has its uses: a bullying platform; a self-aggrandisement platform; a money-making platform...

...others will no doubt come to mind.

But like Skyhooks says (literary licence invoked): HOOK AIRS?

[Steve Axford]

The same could be said of the internet in general, and if these aliens don't land because of facebook, then there will be others.
I use facebook for specific purposes - and it is great. There is no more bullying, self-aggrandisement or money-making than there is here. A good deal less in some cases and young people seem to use it as well as us oldies.

[ricktas]

The same could be said of the internet in general, and if these aliens don't land because of facebook, then there will be others.
I use facebook for specific purposes - and it is great. There is no more bullying, self-aggrandisement or money-making than there is here. A good deal less in some cases and young people seem to use it as well as us oldies.

But if you do ever experience an internet troll on FB, be prepared to have zero way to stop them. I hope you do not, but there are a lot of them out there. You will have no way of stopping them. I know a photographer at present who was accused of indecently interacting with his models, by a person on FB, that he has never met. It has now been going on for months. This accuser has no proof, even the models have come out in defence of the photographer, but it keeps appearing. Pages created calling him all sorts of names, his photos taken off his page and 'pervert' etc written over them and re-posted. All using fake accounts. The police response is 'don't use facebook'. His lawyer is getting no-where with facebook legal (in Sydney), and his name is being dragged through the mud for no valid reason.

This is the second one I have seen against a photographer on FB.

So yes, facebook can be a good tool, but it is also a dangerous one, and I hope you never experience a facebook troll Steve, cause you will have no hope of ever stopping it.

[Steve Axford]

The same argument can be applied to crossing the road, Rick. Some people are scared to go outside because of some fear that they might be killed if they do. They might! But what is better, live your life in irrational fear, or take the risk and actually do things. What you have described is extremely rare and it would only matter if you are dependant on facebook. I'm not.

[geoffsta]

I enjoy FB. I keep in touch with family and friends. I share my images. I have had many a good laugh, and had a few cries. I have seen some images that have inspired, and some that make me want to throw up.
FB can save lives. FB can take lives. Many a time when this site is down, I have checked FB to see the reason why.

Yes, you get trolls among the millions of users. But how many times has this site alone had cyber attacks trying to get information to invade our privacy, steal money from our bank accounts and send us loads of spam.:confused013

My only pet hate with FB, is how the younger generation use it to get sympathy. There is a fair bit of "woe is me", and the expect to get heaps of support messages.

And the grammar.... Don't me started on that one.

My only fear, is that it takes members away from forums like this one. FB is simple and easy to use. The only forums that are not so effected are the ones that have some sort of piracy involved.

[arthurking83]

My major pet hate about FB type sites(ie. socially connected sites) is the manner in which people use them.

I'd have no issue if they do this during their own time, but when 90% of their work time is spent on Fb(mainly, but not exclusively) as well as other social interacting sites like Twitter and whatnot .. it really becomes annoying.

Imagine this as a typical scenario: inside the depot but just outside the office a round table with room for about 6 or so people comfortably around it.
6 or 7 people seated. Not all that much general chat, with 6 of those 7 people all glued to their smartphones.
(one guess as to who the black sheep in this group is! :D)

The land line phone rings .. and is only half an arms reach from the person who is supposed to answer it, yet they they will interrupt what it is they're doing on their phone, and politely ask me if I could answer it!
My job isn't to answer phones(at the moment my job is as a driver, due to the volume of work), but part of my job is to be here and there and everywhere.
So, because I'm not actually doing anything when the phone rings I'll answer it knowing full well that the caller will ask a question that only the person who didn't want to interrupt their Fb time will know the answer too. So I answer the phone, knowing that I'd be giving it to this person who will know the answer to the caller's question .. I agree to take the call.

The situation usually transpires into me working as a relay between person that knows the answer and the caller, with me trying to give the phone to the person that knows so they can answer the caller directly, making for a more efficient exchange of info and cutting out an unnecessary middleman(me!).
Yet the person(who should have answered the phone) that knows the answers, tries his hardest to avoid taking the phone during this time. Not because he doesn't want to talk to the person on the phone to end the call as quickly as possible .. simply because he can't bear the thought that he has to put down his smartphone and thus lose access to his facebook time.

What makes this all the more sad is that not only is this during work, but that the person that knows the information that the caller is looking for is supposed to be the despatch manager!


At this rate of decay I can't see any real future for employers in this country at least, where 90% of work time is spent on social sites.

The interactions between the other people at the table is usually along the lines of comments about what was just posted on Fb, and exchanging smartphones with each other to watch some tedious video on Youtube.

It's hard to find any party, or event, or gathering of any sort nowadays and not see half (or more) of the attendees not tethered to their smartphone.

The Aliens that Am referred too have already landed and are already among us, yet no one has noticed because it hasn't been posted on Fb yet! :D
(and I'm too busy to talk to them as I'm trying to balance housekeeping, looking after kids, helping to do a renovation, ignoring my missed calls and texts and trying to use my logged in time here more efficiently .... I have this week off work as it's my week with the kids)

[ameerat42]

:christmasparty::santa:...General Christmas Cheer...:xmas31::christmasparty:

"Social" media. Pah! How a word can be its own antonym:rolleyes::rolleyes:

:christmasparty::santa:...General Christmas Cheer...:xmas31::christmasparty:

[Steve Axford]

I enjoy FB. I keep in touch with family and friends. I share my images. I have had many a good laugh, and had a few cries. I have seen some images that have inspired, and some that make me want to throw up.
FB can save lives. FB can take lives. Many a time when this site is down, I have checked FB to see the reason why.

Yes, you get trolls among the millions of users. But how many times has this site alone had cyber attacks trying to get information to invade our privacy, steal money from our bank accounts and send us loads of spam.:confused013

My only pet hate with FB, is how the younger generation use it to get sympathy. There is a fair bit of "woe is me", and the expect to get heaps of support messages.

And the grammar.... Don't me started on that one.

My only fear, is that it takes members away from forums like this one. FB is simple and easy to use. The only forums that are not so effected are the ones that have some sort of piracy involved.

I think Facebook (and the like) will and is taking users away from sites like this. The simple reason being that anyone can start a specialist site with no cost and very little effort. I use several groups on Facebook that specialise in Fungi or Lichen. They are active, they have many people who understand the science and they have many young people as well. Trolls are easy to remove for the owners as you just remove them from the group. Fights occur occasionally, as they do here. Young people can be emotional and silly at times, but the alternative is to have an oldies only site. That can get a little set in its ways.

[Steve Axford]

My major pet hate about FB type sites(ie. socially connected sites) is the manner in which people use them.

I'd have no issue if they do this during their own time, but when 90% of their work time is spent on Fb(mainly, but not exclusively) as well as other social interacting sites like Twitter and whatnot .. it really becomes annoying.

Imagine this as a typical scenario: inside the depot but just outside the office a round table with room for about 6 or so people comfortably around it.
6 or 7 people seated. Not all that much general chat, with 6 of those 7 people all glued to their smartphones.
(one guess as to who the black sheep in this group is! :D)

The land line phone rings .. and is only half an arms reach from the person who is supposed to answer it, yet they they will interrupt what it is they're doing on their phone, and politely ask me if I could answer it!
My job isn't to answer phones(at the moment my job is as a driver, due to the volume of work), but part of my job is to be here and there and everywhere.
So, because I'm not actually doing anything when the phone rings I'll answer it knowing full well that the caller will ask a question that only the person who didn't want to interrupt their Fb time will know the answer too. So I answer the phone, knowing that I'd be giving it to this person who will know the answer to the caller's question .. I agree to take the call.

The situation usually transpires into me working as a relay between person that knows the answer and the caller, with me trying to give the phone to the person that knows so they can answer the caller directly, making for a more efficient exchange of info and cutting out an unnecessary middleman(me!).
Yet the person(who should have answered the phone) that knows the answers, tries his hardest to avoid taking the phone during this time. Not because he doesn't want to talk to the person on the phone to end the call as quickly as possible .. simply because he can't bear the thought that he has to put down his smartphone and thus lose access to his facebook time.

What makes this all the more sad is that not only is this during work, but that the person that knows the information that the caller is looking for is supposed to be the despatch manager!


At this rate of decay I can't see any real future for employers in this country at least, where 90% of work time is spent on social sites.

The interactions between the other people at the table is usually along the lines of comments about what was just posted on Fb, and exchanging smartphones with each other to watch some tedious video on Youtube.

It's hard to find any party, or event, or gathering of any sort nowadays and not see half (or more) of the attendees not tethered to their smartphone.

The Aliens that Am referred too have already landed and are already among us, yet no one has noticed because it hasn't been posted on Fb yet! :D
(and I'm too busy to talk to them as I'm trying to balance housekeeping, looking after kids, helping to do a renovation, ignoring my missed calls and texts and trying to use my logged in time here more efficiently .... I have this week off work as it's my week with the kids)

Sounds like a problem with your work, rather than a problem with facebook.

[bcys1961]

:christmasparty::santa:...General Christmas Cheer...:xmas31::christmasparty:

"Social" media. Pah! How a word can be its own antonym:rolleyes::rolleyes:


Isn't that called an oxymoron - two words that contradict each other - e.g. Fun Run or Police Intelligence ?


:christmasparty::santa:...General Christmas Cheer...:xmas31::christmasparty:

[farmmax]

I think my problem with social media is the rudeness it has created in what were sane normal people around me, until they became hitched up with Facebook, Twitter etc. Now this is not the fault of Facebook, Twitter etc, but I cannot believe the addictiveness that such social media appears to generate in the human population. I'm very saddened if I go to town or a "social" gathering. There are people everywhere busily swiping at these little plastic rectangles in their hands. It really is very strange and rude behaviour from the outside looking in. No wonder I normally stay at home :(

[ameerat42]

Max. When you see them crossing the street while so gawking at their phones, it's enough to
***:xmas31::santa::christmasparty::xmas::):):santa::xmas::christmasparty:***
sometimes. Don't you think?

Post edited to be seasonally correct.

[farmmax]

I can see there will soon have to be a law against using a mobile whilst crossing a street :D

:tweety::tweety:

[arthurking83]

Sounds like a problem with your work, rather than a problem with facebook.

The problem isn't facebook .. the way people use it is the problem(with the note that Facebook is only one of a myriad of social sites causing this behaviour).

I'm sure my workplace isn't the only one affected by the issue either .. and not all that long ago I was at a cafe with the kids, and it was quite obvious from my lowly seated view point that the staff seemed to be curiously addicted to the palm of their hand more so that taking our order(s).

Then again the issue also works the other way around too.

Not too long ago I read an article about cafe/restaurant service levels having declined in the past few years.
The article was written by a New York based restauranteur in response to criticism on the level of service at this establishment.

Makes for interesting reading, but the predominant cause for declining service levels was due to customers use of smartphones.

The article is HERE (http://news.distractify.com/culture/craigslist-surveillance-restaurant/) .. and a summary HERE (http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/eats/smartphones-blame-slow-service-restaurants-article-1.1879081)

Whilst it's easy to consider the article is simply an unsubstantiated defense mechanism by the author of the article who also happens to have a vested interest in the business at the heart of the story .. my recent experience in the cafe business only recently I can only concur that this sounds pretty much accurate.

This particular point makes me laugh! ....


... 26 out of 45 customers spend an average of 3 minutes taking photos of the food...

The cafe I worked in was strictly take away and I doubt food photography was a high priority on the customers minds ... but with the recent predominance of food photography .. people that seem to have a need to post what they're about to eat to their favoured social site .. :confused013

I've worked in the restaurant/cafe industry many moons ago too .. mobile phones were only a new phenomenon way back then. Photography wasn't even a consideration in the communication industry back then .. still many years off .. let alone social interaction sites.
But one thing I do strongly recall was that in the cafes and restaurants I was a part of and knew the owners of .. photography of the food was never a part of the enjoyment of the experience!

I blame this strange phenomenon on those annoying reality cooking shows .. not so much the mechanisms now available to partake in this seemingly odd behaviour.

I can see the need for food photography in the sense that the images are then used for the purpose of marketing or information for the establishment(I've done this myself for the cafe I recently worked in .. for uploading images to the website and for loading into the u-bute hi-tech cash register system.

But to photograph the sandwich that just came to you on a plate to show your circle of friends that this is what you're about to eat .. :confused: ... I seriously just don't get it!

Maybe this is what all the mobile mania at my work is all about!

You are right tho .. the blame definitely doesn't rest on the social sites, not wanting to single out Facebook here.
Facebook is like a gun. Used effectively it can be a great tool. Used stupidly, it becomes another source of society's ills!

[Steve Axford]

The world changes! The internet provides many advantages and much insanity as well - but maybe that's just people. I love the internet as it gives me contact with people and information and I can live in the bush too.

[ricktas]

The same argument can be applied to crossing the road, Rick. Some people are scared to go outside because of some fear that they might be killed if they do. They might! But what is better, live your life in irrational fear, or take the risk and actually do things. What you have described is extremely rare and it would only matter if you are dependant on facebook. I'm not.

Sure, and when we go outside we do things like look left and right before crossing the street, we use traffic/pedestrian lights or crossings, where available. Basically, we all have in place a set of guidelines that are taught to us when younger about how to safely negotiate a road etc. If an idiot comes flying up the road, we stay off the road till they have passed. We use knowledge, instructions and observation to safely negotiate crossing the street.

The issue with FB is that people use it without considering any safety guidelines or having in place some steps to use if they do encounter an idiot. Have you thought about how you would deal with a FB troll if you encounter one? What plans do you have in place in case an idiot decides to come barraging your way on facebook? People expect FB to deal with any issues they have via the 'report' option. But in real life, the report option usually results in 'the post/page you reported does not breach our community guidelines'. There is zero you can do to get the page/post removed.

"What you have described is extremely rare and it would only matter if you are dependent on facebook. I'm not." Yes it is, and although you are not dependent on FB, have you considered how a troll would affect your real life, if it mean someone searched "Steve Axford' in Google to find the top results were facebook pages about you, and not in a good way?

Forums like AP have some good software behind them that allows the admin/moderators to ban users, block IP addresses etc. Facebook does not provide IP addresses to anyone, even lawyers. It does not ban users permanently. It does not consider even things like death threats to breach its community standards.

All I am saying is that each and every one of us needs to consider what the implications of using FB and consider our own guidelines for dealing with those on FB that are not so socially acceptable. Have a plan for, know how to deal with, or understand how to react, deflect, deal with a FB troll.

[Steve Axford]

It's really quite easy to control, Rick. The only time you would have serious problems would be if you allowed anyone to comment without even being a member, but that would apply here too. The same rules apply as in crossing a street - look before you walk, or look at a person's timeline before you allow them to become a member.

[MissionMan]

I think the problem with Facebook and other social media forms is the lack of emotional attachment and the ability to say things you wouldn't say to a person face to face.

I find it incredible that someone can say "you're a fat pig" to an obese person, or "you're a bad parent" to someone who just lost their child but I would put money on it that they would never say it to the person face to face. They don't get to see the hurt when the person reads the comment so it's something easy to make. I don't have a whole heap of respect for trolls on social media, they're the lowest of the low, people who get their kicks from other people's misery.

[Steve Axford]

But Ap is social media! There is no difference.

[MissionMan]

But Ap is social media! There is no difference.

I think this is different from the perspective that it's a little niche so it's less likely to be a target for trolls.

I also think sites like this are far more controlled. Facebook and twitter have very little control. I guarantee you I could post something and it would probably take 48 hours to get removed whereas AP would probably remove it within an hour or two. Ausphoto also has limits around what you can post, pictures, links etc where social media don't. The moment you're on there, you can do whatever you want.

[Steve Axford]

Facebook has plenty of control if you choose to use it, or almost none if you don't. Same as here. The reason AP has control is that several people spend a lot of time vetting things. You can do that on Facebook. The sites that are a free-for-all are those that nobody bothers to exercise control.

[ameerat42]

"Social media" is just a description of the vehicle. But even so, FB and AP are rather different vehicles.
It is true that AP is more "social media" than it is a giraffe, but AP has a fairly focused purpose - photography - and it is moderated, and not just by moderators, but by the whole lot
of us here. I suspect that:
1) FB is less moderated officially (I dunno, could be wrong), and certainly much less so by the users themselves (from what I've seen over shoulders and heard from others).
2) The respective motivations of the users would be widely different. Who knows what you could say about its broad purpose.

Sure, it has its uses, and some people abuse it. It depends on whether you want to be part of it or not.

(Blarstt! Had to restrore auto-saved content. Was supposed to answer post 20 of Steve's:()

[Steve Axford]

You talk of facebook as if it was a single site, yet you can create groups on it, define the rules for the group and then moderate the group. Not a lot different to here really.

[Mark L]

You talk of facebook as if it was a single site, yet you can create groups on it, define the rules for the group and then moderate the group.
And is that what most of facebook is devoted to?
And is that the way most people use facebook?
I suspect if the majority of people used it the way you do Steve, there'd be a lot less problems created by the use of facebook.

[Steve Axford]

I suspect that most people do use it the way I do, Mark. I really don't see great problems associated with it.

[freelancer]

On the facebook positive side, my local area has a buy swap and sell which seems to be very popular and well liked.

Another plus which I never thought I would be saying is that my teenage daughter recently joined it. She's not your typical teenager as she's more about nature and research than social media. She scuba dives and does both underwater and dry land photography. Since being on facebook she has now become part of a very large network of researchers and is finding and photographing species which were not thought to be in our area. She was also featured in the Brink UTS magazine with full front cover and the Sydney Morning Herald. She has also discovered introduced species (which through the network of facebook), has ended with another contact in biosecurity at its highest level. The list of contacts she has made within the field of her interest and the respect she receives from these people, has truly amazed us.

On the flip side - what with school and time in the field, she got knocked off this site for not posting regularly enough!!!
Jon

[ApolloLXII]

Like it or loathe it, Facebook is a fact of life (unless it goes the same way as Myspace or Geocities) and you are always going to get some idiot spoiling things for others whenever you encourage public participation. Here, there are moderators who keep those who err in line but you would need an army of moderators if you want to see any semblance of the same thing on Facebook. Due to the sheer scale of Facebook and it's multitude of participants, any sort of moderation is nigh on impossible. Trolls, idiots and knuckleheads come with the territory so it all really boils down to your privacy settings and who is able to see your posts. Most people don't bother with privacy settings and then wonder why some nork is giving them grief. My best advice is to ignore the trolls, knuckledraggers and other assorted idiots and don't give them the opportunity to start picking on you. If they start being a problem, hide their posts and block their access to yours.

I have a general policy regarding who can and who can't see what I post and that is really simple. If I don't know you, I won't make you my friend. You would be amazed how many Facebookers ignore this rule and make the whole wide world privy to what they post (mostly because making complete strangers your friend increases your friend count and gives the appearance that you are a popular person) and that's just asking to be trolled, spammed or bullied. I use Facebook primarily as a tool to keep in contact with family and friends, the majority of whom are spread across the continent so it's a cheap way of staying in contact. I haven't written a letter to a family member in years (except for my favourite Aunt who is really old school and doesn't use the internet) because I can catch up with them via Facebook and vice versa. Having said that, I'm not entirely sold on Facebook because it has far too much advertising and only a small percentage of my family/friend circle can see my posts unless I cough up some moolah to boost them (socialising at a price). In spite of that, Facebook is a tool (much like a camera) which, if used properly and with due consideration, can be very useful and I don't mind admitting that I spend far more time on there than here but that is purely because I'm the only serious tog amongst my family and friends. AusPhotography is my social site where I can interact with like minded photographers and it serves that purpose rather well.

The bottom line to all of this is that we should all spend less time on the internet anyway and spend more time behind our cameras :).

[Steve Axford]

On the facebook positive side, my local area has a buy swap and sell which seems to be very popular and well liked.

Another plus which I never thought I would be saying is that my teenage daughter recently joined it. She's not your typical teenager as she's more about nature and research than social media. She scuba dives and does both underwater and dry land photography. Since being on facebook she has now become part of a very large network of researchers and is finding and photographing species which were not thought to be in our area. She was also featured in the Brink UTS magazine with full front cover and the Sydney Morning Herald. She has also discovered introduced species (which through the network of facebook), has ended with another contact in biosecurity at its highest level. The list of contacts she has made within the field of her interest and the respect she receives from these people, has truly amazed us.

On the flip side - what with school and time in the field, she got knocked off this site for not posting regularly enough!!!
Jon

That's the way I use it too, plus my personal page for family and friends (real, live, touchy-feely friends). Never had any problems with idiots and I have collected good contacts from around the world. It does help if you have an interest to focus on and photography is way too broad. After all, everyone has a camera (phone) now and so considers themselves a photographer.

[Analog6]

My sentiments precisely. I do not make friends easily in person, as I am a bit of an introvert, but I have made some pretty special friends via Facebook, some of them overseas, touched base with people I haven't seen or heard from in years, and had a lot of fun.

I take people as I find them, if they prove to be not my 'cuppa' I unfriend them. I share the images I like personally, both mine and others, and I enjoy seeing all the images there, some are inspiring and some are pretty ordinary, but if we all liked the same things life would be very B O R I N G ! !

FB is a very useful tool for the lonely and disempowered, for whatever reasons.

If you don't think much of FaceBook then why are you using it?



I enjoy FB. I keep in touch with family and friends. I share my images. I have had many a good laugh, and had a few cries. I have seen some images that have inspired, and some that make me want to throw up.
FB can save lives. FB can take lives. Many a time when this site is down, I have checked FB to see the reason why.

Yes, you get trolls among the millions of users. But how many times has this site alone had cyber attacks trying to get information to invade our privacy, steal money from our bank accounts and send us loads of spam.:confused013

My only pet hate with FB, is how the younger generation use it to get sympathy. There is a fair bit of "woe is me", and the expect to get heaps of support messages.

And the grammar.... Don't me started on that one.

My only fear, is that it takes members away from forums like this one. FB is simple and easy to use. The only forums that are not so effected are the ones that have some sort of piracy involved.

[enseth]

My biggest issue with Face Book is that it doesn't have a "Dislike" button.