Does anybody use a UPS?

[ameerat42]

UPS - Uninterruptible Power Supply.

I have a now non-working one, a NOVA 600 AVR.

It went well for about 3 years straight - never off. Now it's never on!!

Pulled it apart and found the battery had split along one edge. It has a tiny voltage now of 0.5 V.
It is a 12 V lead/?acid type.

Ran a multitester along it, carefully inspected it for blown fuses, got nothing, and found none. The two fuses were
intact. Of course, there's a heap of intervening electronics, but it all looks intact too.

Now the Q:
Does anyone know for sure how to test one? A new UPS costs about $130, while a new battery costs $35.

Any ideas?

Ta, Am.

[Fruengalli]

Use them at work & at home & we need to replace batteries at 2-3 year intervals. Battery World does an easy and cheap replacement.

[ameerat42]

Ta, Fruengalli. I only hope it is the battery. There's a BW not far away. I might try that option. Do you know if they just PLAY DEAD when the battery goes? No lights, nothing.
Am.

[Fruengalli]

Ta, Fruengalli. I only hope it is the battery. There's a BW not far away. I might try that option. Do you know if they just PLAY DEAD when the battery goes? No lights, nothing.
Am.

From experience we bang another battery in & away they go. The units are anywhere from 3-6 years old & a battery seems to do the trick. Maybe take it to BW & they can check it for you?

[ameerat42]

Ta again. Last time they were a bit reticent to test something (I've long forgotten about) for me, but at worst I might end up with a spare battery for a new unit. (???)

[Mary Anne]

I have one, been using it for almost two years and have not had any problems with it, guess its not old enough to die yet

[ameerat42]

What brand, M A? On recalling, I think it was closer to 4 years than to 3 before it stopped.
If I have to get another, I'd look at other brands too.
Am.

[Mary Anne]

No idea Am I am on holidays in NSW be back home late Monday.

[ameerat42]

OK. Ta. Enjoy the break.

[Mary Anne]

Searched through my PB Album and found this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mistymorn/2013%20A%20P%20%20Photos/UPSIMG_9548_zps06c49d2a.jpg~original

[farmmax]

I've always had a UPS/conditioner on the computers except for a short time a couple of months ago. In the short time this computer was not attached to a UPS, I had my first ever motherboard burn out :(

The UPS just went dead, so I bought a couple of replacement batteries for it - They are just the 12v 7ah ones commonly used in fire alarms, and dirt cheap. When I replaced the batteries the good old General Electric UPS happily started up again. The last set of batteries were around 5 years old, so no complaints.

It is surprising how often the UPS cuts in even if for a second or two. If the heavy duty angle grinder, or the welder get plugged into the same circuit, there are a couple of warning beeps from the UPS. I also run the computer happily when there are storms around. It has to be a drastic storm crashing over head before I go and pull the plugs.

[ameerat42]

Ta. Found a link for them: http://www.cctvsupplies.com.au/product-info.php?Uninterruptable_Power_Supplies_UPS-PCF-1500_CCTV_Supplies-pid335.html
Will check out.

[I @ M]

We have 3 very reliable ups units here Am due to this area being notoriously prone to power failures ranging from seconds to days.

One unit, a Belkin 600va is about 4-5 years old and the other 2 are Eaton 3s 700va models about 2 years old. Worth every cent and trouble free so far.

[markdphotography]

I have not used them at home but I do have a good surge protector that is more suitable for my application. I did have one at work and an audibe beep sounded. Replaced the battery and it still did not work (large motorcycle battery). You may be up for a new protector but I did not replace mine at work as that PC is used to drive my computerised mat cutter that does not get used as much lately due to the GFC (Global Framing Crisis). My understnding is that the two small 9V would only give you time to shut the machine down and do not have enough power to run the PC, monitor and other external drives. It is a case of assessment of risk but new operating systems do recover from forced shut downs a lot better than say XP. A surge protector is another issue altogether as I still use it at home.

[I @ M]

I have not used them at home but I do have a good surge protector that is more suitable for my application. I did have one at work and an audibe beep sounded. Replaced the battery and it still did not work (large motorcycle battery). You may be up for a new protector but I did not replace mine at work as that PC is used to drive my computerised mat cutter that does not get used as much lately due to the GFC (Global Framing Crisis). My understnding is that the two small 9V would only give you time to shut the machine down and do not have enough power to run the PC, monitor and other external drives. It is a case of assessment of risk but new operating systems do recover from forced shut downs a lot better than say XP. A surge protector is another issue altogether as I still use it at home.

Mark, most, if not all ups units are also surge protectors. The entire function by design of a ups is to allow sufficient time after the power is cut to save any open works and to shut down the computer. Typically about 10 - 12 minutes depending on the rating of the ups and the load from the computer.
As for assessment of risk, yes, most operating systems will recover well from a crash shutdown but if one has an image being edited with no ups connected and numerous editing steps in place that aren't saved at the time of a power failure you will lose those editing steps. A ups will save that lost work grief, save the computer having to recover from a crash situation and those with the appropriate software supplied with the ups will shut down the computer automatically after a period of time that you program into the software. To me it is a no brainer with the risk assessment, the small price paid for a ups unit eliminates a lot of risk.

[ameerat42]

Well, ta for all the replies. I will first get a new battery - if cheap and no other reason not to.
If it's not that, then a new UPS and a {[("spare")]} battery, I supp:ose.

[farmmax]

There is a big difference between a surge protector and a ups, particularly one that conditions as well. My computer lost it's motherboard on the surge protector. My UPS runs the computer for around 15 minutes without external power. Plenty of time to save and exit if need be. Usually the power comes on within 5 minutes anyway, so I usually keep going for at least that long in the hope I won't need to shut down. It also has software to automatically control the computer as well when power outs, but I don't bother with the software.

I've always sourced any batteries (we use the same ones for our electric fence energisers) from the same place on Ebay, as I don't exactly have a lot of access to shops. They are usually delivered to my door in under 48 hours.

I wouldn't buy a spare battery for my UPS as it took 5 years to get through the first ones :) The "spare" battery would probably have died by then as well :D

[ameerat42]

Ta Max. It's not so much that I want a "spare", as I'd likely end up with one as a result of the
initial "cheap option" - let's see if it's only a battery. They won't let you just try them out in the store,
and of course they have no spares lying around out the back!!:cool:

[davsv1]

I have three between home and work, the two Belkins cost me about $400.00 each from memory and both died at about 4 years old, I got new batteries ( 2 in each ) for about $40.00 each I think. Remember if you replace the batteries yourself you are playing with very hight voltages be very careful, they do output 240V.
And yes I thought I had a blown fuse or something too as they suddenly died but new batteries have them back good as gold again

[ameerat42]

Ta David. It might not have to end up with a spare battery and new UPS:)

[ameerat42]

UPDATE!!

Got a new battery - OK, paid $55 for a slightly more powerful one - and the machine now works AGAIN.

Ta for all your replies.
Am(:D).

[Mary Anne]

Curious as to why you needed a more powerful battery.

[ameerat42]

I didn't need it as such, M A, but it gives a slightly longer shutdown time in case of power failure.
(Or it was a sales pitch. Bubble is, in the US they cost as low as $17, while here they start at about $30.)
That was the price at this place, Battery World.

He let me try it first, and it was brand new.

Am.

[Mary Anne]

Thanks for that Am, thats good to know.

[farmmax]

It is good you can go and try it. Makes it a good option. I just have to take pot luck. The batteries I use are $22 delivered each, via Ebay.

[ameerat42]

...The batteries I use are $22 delivered each, via Ebay...
:(

[Mary Anne]

It is good you can go and try it. Makes it a good option. I just have to take pot luck. The batteries I use are $22 delivered each, via Ebay.

Where is the link ?

[Warb]

My first post and it's resurrecting a 2 month old thread!

There are many brands of UPS, some better than others, but they fall in to 2 basic types. An offline UPS feeds mains power straight to the load (computer), and when that mains power varies beyond a set value for voltage or frequency the UPS switches to powering the load from the battery. An online UPS, on the other hand, always runs the load from the battery so there is no switching delay and far less risk of a mains fluctuation reaching the load. Both will, to some extent, protect from high/low voltages, spikes and frequency disturbances as well as total mains failures. The online UPS will do so more thoroughly, but at a far higher price! Historically a "faster" computer, or one with a higher power consumption, would be more prone to upset caused by the offline UPS's switching time, but computer power supplies have got better and are more capable of "smoothing out" minor disturbances so the difference is somewhat less noticeable.

Any consumer grade UPS is almost certainly an offline design. How well it will deal with a varying mains supply therefore comes down to its basic quality, which often (though perhaps less so than in the past) relates to price.

UPS batteries rarely last more than 2 or 3 years, but there is nothing special about them - any battery of the correct voltage will work, though it might not fit in the box! Batteries not designed for "float" usage (where the battery sits at basically full charge all the time) very occasionally have problems, and batteries that are not designed for "deep cycle" use (car batteries, for example, are not designed to be depleted to less than about 80% full) will not last long if the UPS has to run the load too many times. However most UPS's rarely actually power the load from the battery for long enough to deplete it much.

A UPS can therefore be of great value. However there are downsides! A UPS is not 100% efficient, so it adds to your electricity bill - a modern "green" UPS might be 95% efficient when matched to a load, but older or cheaper models, especially when lightly or heavily loaded, can be far worse. 80% efficiency means for every kwh the computer uses you actually buy closer to 1.3kwh. Also a UPS adds another point of failure to your system. With a new, quality UPS the protection gained outweighs the chance of failure. But with each passing year the UPS becomes more prone to failure, and at around the 5 year mark the chance of UPS failure statistically overtakes the benefits.

A good UPS is worthwhile, especially if you have a poor mains supply.

1/ Pick one that has sufficient power output (VA) to drive your critical loads (computer, monitor, external disks) but do not attach printers etc. (never laser printers, they can cause damage to the UPS). The idea of a UPS is to give you time to carry out a controlled shutdown of your system, not to keep working when the power's out!

2/ Preferably get one that will communicate with your computer and trigger an automatic shutdown, so it "works" even when you're not there. It seems pointless to have a UPS that just dumps the load when it runs out of batteries!

3/ Bigger batteries will support the load for longer, a bigger VA rating will drive a bigger load. Increasing either will increase the cost, but the VA MUST be enough to power the load, whilst battery only needs enough capacity for you to hit save + shutdown.

4/ As always, these devices generate heat. Don't lock them in an unventilated cupboard, or cover them up.

5/ Buy the best you can afford, test it regularly (at the very least: with only your monitor switched on, turn the mains off and check the UPS keeps the monitor going!) and replace the batteries if it fails either it's self tests or your manual test.

6/ Consider whether the extra point of failure of an old or "questionable" UPS is worth the risk!

7/ When the power fails and you're running on batteries, just shut down your computer and go for a walk. Don't try to keep working, you risk the machine crashing when the batteries run out. I have seen many UPS's that have a grossly exaggerated idea of how long they can keep going, and watched them crash (and seen the horror on the users face) whilst showing they still had 15 minutes run time.

8/ To continue from 7/ above, when setting auto shutdowns for a UPS that communicates with the computer, be conservative. The UPS might "think" it can power the load for 20minutes, but that doesn't allow for the unexpected. The battery may not be as good as the UPS expects, or the load may be higher because the computer is working hard. Is it worth trying to gain a couple of minutes at the risk of corrupting your operating system?


My photography skills are basic at best, but I spent many years as a consultant in the IT industry. I hope this helps somebody.

[I @ M]

My first post and it's resurrecting a 2 month old thread!

Definitely not unwelcome to add some valuable points to an older but still relevant thread. :th3:

[ameerat42]

Thanks Warb. You covered a few points I did not know.
I certainly do use it conservatively - though not automatically - as I shut down completely (and all power off) if I'm going to be absent for half an hour or more,
and when the power has gone off - twice from memory - I have shut down straight away.
Am.

[Mary Anne]

Yes all good to know and Thanks for that.