Slightly dropped Nikon D800 - now dark shots...

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Hi guys - like i said -- ill give you the facts:

Nikon D800 camera
Nikkor AFS 16-85mm 3.5-5.6G ED DX lens

I was using it on a tripod the other day - i had it weighted down but the back of a chair knocked it half way over.

Now i cursed - and quickly checked it - no signs of misalignment or any problems.

Problem is now the lens always gives off a dark picture.

Live view isn't functioning correctly with this lens either ( i get an E error on the bottom right corner of the screen and the image is grainy) - so i think it might be the electrical / computer side of things as the lens seems fine

And no im out of warranty - and where i bought it in the UK my mate doesn't work there anymore!

Thanks for any help you could give

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[I @ M]

Have you tried another lens on the camera? That seems like the first logical step to me.

From your description of the problem, my first guess is at either the aperture contacts between the lens and camera are not right or that the aperture control in the lens itself isn't working.

If the problem persists with a different lens I feel that seeking an inspection by Nikon Aus or a reputable camera repairer is the next step if you can't pinpoint a contributing issue that you can fix yourself.



And no im out of warranty - and where i bought it in the UK my mate doesn't work there anymore!

Warranty never has covered accidental damage to Nikon cameras.
Insurance cover either dedicated to your camera or as an addition to your household contents policy is usually the best method for covering those oops moments.

[ricktas]

As Andrew says, warranty would not fix this. Take it to a Nikon authorised repairer if a different lens doesnt prove the issue to be with the lens.

[mongo]

Mongo would try and narrow down if it is body damage or lens damage

try another lens on the body that has most of the contact points i.e a newish design lens. If it does the same, then, it is likely to be body damage to possibly the contact points. worst case, to both the body and the lens but Mongo would have thought only to one of those as more likely.

does the lens remove easily and smoothly from the body. if not the damage may well be where the two join. Visually check the contact points on the lens and the surrounding black area they are encased in. Are the contact points all there and are they all sticking up evenly ??? are there any cracks in the surrounding material they are encased in ?? Look inside the bayonet mount on the camera and see that all the flat ribbon contact points are not torn and are neatly in place.


try and identify which part of the camera or lens came in contact with anything during the fall. Check for physical damage at that site. It may have also landed on one of the command buttons on the camera. If it did , that may narrow down the cause and likely thing that has been affected by the fall. if the lens hit first and not the body, check both sides of the bayonet mounts (body and lens) to see if there is any physical stress point via signs of cracking or movement (ie slight separation of mount and component it is screwed into).

If you see anything - report back. this sort of thing may require a knowledgeable technician in the end. Not sure if we are allowed to make any recommendations on this site in that regard so, Mongo will not for now.

good luck

[arthurking83]

......

If you see anything - report back. this sort of thing may require a knowledgeable technician in the end. Not sure if we are allowed to make any recommendations on this site in that regard so, Mongo will not for now.

.....

No problem for any recommendations M!

A couple of easy things to check if you don't have another lens to play with.

Take lens off camera. On the bayonet mount is a small protruding metalic black tab that slides along a short radial arc .. it'll be close to the rear lens element.
if you slide it up and down to it's maximum possible locations the aperture diaphragm will open close. In it's natural position the diaphragm is closed down while the lens is off the camera.

If this is working then step 2:
If the diaphragm is opening and closing with playing with the tab, then when it's placed back onto the camera, if you peer down the front of the lens into the camera, you will see that it's open.

Now, with the camera on, set aperture to something physically small like f/16 or f/22 and still looking into the lens, press the DOFP(DOF Preview) button. If you do this you will see the diaphragm close down on activating the DOFP button.
The DOFP should be the upper function button on the front of the camera on the RHS of the lens(if you haven't altered it in the menu).

If you see an -E- error msg on the top LCD display it means that a card is not installed in the camera(this is mirrored on the lower RH corner of the live view screen too).
Take any card(s) out and re seat them, and see if this helps.

if the lens aperture is operating OK and you still have dark frames and the -E- msg, then it may have faulty contacts or something.
Do you have SD or CF cards? If one type, then try another type and so on.

If the fall was onto hard ground, I dare say that there would most likely be an alignment issue of some type now. it may be small and not really noticeable tho.

Lastly, when you say you get dark picture, how dark exactly? You do realise that the 16-85 is a Dx only lens and that the camera is Fx. Did you reset something and are shooting in Fx mode?
If so, then of course your images will be massively vignetted due to the design of the lens.
But this is corner darkening, not dark overall .. so you will see an image at the centre of the frame, but black edging.

Anyhow, let us know how you go.

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No problem for any recommendations M!

A couple of easy things to check if you don't have another lens to play with.

Take lens off camera. On the bayonet mount is a small protruding metalic black tab that slides along a short radial arc .. it'll be close to the rear lens element.
if you slide it up and down to it's maximum possible locations the aperture diaphragm will open close. In it's natural position the diaphragm is closed down while the lens is off the camera.


Firstly thanks for the info guys/gals - it really helps and i appreciate it a lot

The bummer is my mate who used to work at Nikon now doesn't - otherwise i would have NO problems :-)

I have tried the lens on my D7000 - same thing
I tried different lenses on my D-800 and they were ok - so im pretty sure it is a lens specific thing - which leads to:
You know the first step above here i think is it. I tried to move the small metallic tab and it only moved if slightly forces with a clunking noise!

I tried the same tab on other lenses they are smooth so i think it is in there
109763
Would that explain why the command dial doesn't seem to work on the viewfinder and it goes screwy in "info" mode as well?

Thanks for the great help

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[ricktas]

If you see anything - report back. this sort of thing may require a knowledgeable technician in the end. Not sure if we are allowed to make any recommendations on this site in that regard so, Mongo will not for now.

good luck

of course you can Mongo.

[arthurking83]

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I tried the same tab on other lenses they are smooth so i think it is in there
.....

Yeah! .. there should be very little to no force required to move the tab .. so it obvious that the lens is damaged.

While it's a PITA that this happened, you're luckier that it's the lens that's damaged rather than the camera.

Lens is cheaper to fix/replace than the camera.


Just as a precaution, I wouldn't mount the lens onto any of your cameras now either, just in case it causes them some type of damage too.

[mongo]

from the shot you have provided, it is the lens. You have bent or otherwise affected the "aperture control lever". It connects to the aperture blade assembly and, in manual lenses, it open and closes the aperture blades. This explains why you are not getting correct exposure. In your AFS lens, this lever still has a similar function i.e. it is associated with the aperture blade assembly but Mongo is not entirely certain if is responsible for opening and closing the aperture blades as with AFS “G” lenses, this seems to be done entirely electronically. However, as this lever is sticking or relatively hard to move, two possibilities immediately come to mind:-


1. the lever arm itself is bent. This is almost impossible if the lens was mounted to the camera body when the damage occurred.


2. the more likely possibility is the aperture blade assemble itself (further down in the lens) has been distorted or partly disassembled from the impact of the fall.


From all appearances, either way, you seem to have a physical problem rather than a complex electronic problem.


Nonetheless, is should be a relatively easy fix if that is the only thing wrong with it. If it were Mongo's lens, he would have had it opened by now and working on it. However, that is not for the uninitiated. The good news is that a good technician, may even be able to bend the lever accurately back into its correct position without have to replace the part OR if it is the aperture assembly, reassemble it if there are no bent parts. The latter is much more work to get to and do.


Do NOT use the lens in the interim as it may damage the camera bodies it is used on.


If you are in Sydney, Mongo would try taking it to the Camera Service Centre in Castlereagh St (who Mongo has found to be both good and very reasonable) or Five Star camera repairs (who Mongo has not yet used but has spoken to them by phone and has otherwise heard good things about)


Good luck and let us know how the patient is doing

PS - forgot to ask - if you shake the lens gently near your ear, do you hear any small parts moving or any other noises coming from the inside of the lens??

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PS - forgot to ask - if you shake the lens gently near your ear, do you hear any small parts moving or any other noises coming from the inside of the lens??

Yep you are right - the lens makes a slight rattle ( shaking noise) when i shake it gently. More so when i shake it with my ear the closer to the aperture arm - so to me from all the good advice you guys have said it sounds like the arm is the problem.

do you think i should take a quick squizz or go to the service centre tomorrow?

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[ricktas]

Yep you are right - the lens makes a slight rattle ( shaking noise) when i shake it gently. More so when i shake it with my ear the closer to the aperture arm - so to me from all the good advice you guys have said it sounds like the arm is the problem.

do you think i should take a quick squizz or go to the service centre tomorrow?

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I reckon you should shake it away from your ear as far as possible, then it might not sound broken and be ok :D

Seriously, if you feel you can afford to pull it apart, and not be able to put it back together (or break something else), and can afford a replacement lens, do it yourself. If you are unsure about your confidence at being able to repair it yourself, take it to the service centre.

[HughD]

[QUOTE=ricktas;1240476]I reckon you should shake it away from your ear as far as possible, then it might not sound broken and be ok :D

This follows the "if the car is making a noise, turn up the radio" school of automotive engineering. Had not realised there was a photography equivalent.:lol: Thanks for the laugh.

[MissionMan]

It's one of the benefits of spending a little on your glass. I've notice that the cheaper lenses are more prone to breakage because they are not designed for the wear and tear of professional photography where things are bound to take a knock. Obviously that's not to say you should go out and bang your gear around, but I've heard of many occasions where lenses have been dropped onto concrete with only limited cosmetic wear and tear.

The down side with Nikon is their repair costs are something akin to being dragged into a gorilla cage and getting gang-raped by the largest male. They don't sell any of the parts online so even if you dent the lens filter attachment ring which is simple to replace, you are stuck taking it to Nikon and losing a large portion of your paycheck.


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[arthurking83]

[FONT=Helvetica]...... In your AFS lens, this lever still has a similar function i.e. it is associated with the aperture blade assembly but Mongo is not entirely certain if is responsible for opening and closing the aperture blades as with AFS “G” lenses, this seems to be done entirely electronically.

Any Nikon lens not designated with an E suffix uses a mechanical control of the aperture system.
Not many of them exist in the Nikon lineup, the PC(tilt-shift) lenses and the 800mm f/5.6 and new 400mm f/2.8 are the only E class lenses I know of at the moment.
All other lenses use this mechanical aperture lever system.


It's one of the benefits of spending a little on your glass. I've notice that the cheaper lenses are more prone to breakage because they are not designed for the wear and tear ....

......

There's always two sides to a coin.
Friend brought me her cheapie 18-105VR to have a look at (a while ago) as it wouldn't 'stay on to the camera' :confused:

Simple cheap lens with a plastic rear mounting face ..... which for less than $5 and about 10 mins I fixed the problem of a broken mount .. caused due to a camera and lens being dropped(she finally admitted :p)

Sometimes more easily breakable items with easy to replace parts(bought cheaply) can be more advantageous!

That is, the weak point(the plastic mount on the lens) took all the force of a D7000+lens which absorbed the forces that otherwise may have damaged some harder to get into and obscure part within the lens.
So me not being a lens technician had the mount back onto the lens, and tested against my copy of the lens(same camera) and all good again.


To the OP: I'd say have a go at looking into the lens yourself first. if you have even a medium amount of tinkerer in you, it's actually quite easy to do.
Just make sure to be methodical about it.
it may be more than just unscrewing the 4 mount screws tho.
I don't know this lens at all, but you may have to remove the CPU contacts first. Screws are so small as to be hard to identify sometimes.
Note that you can use regular Philips type screw drivers if you have too .. but it's recommended not too .. or to be extremely careful if you do.
This can't be understated enough as they aren't Philips screws and in fact are JIS(Japanese) screw heads. They don't exactly fit and the risk of rounding the cross pattern is quite easy.
That's the only caveat to removing these screws.

The only other thing to watch for is, could be some very fine wiring. If you notice any be very careful with it. If you have to remove the contact block before removing the lens mount again it will be tethered to a ribbon strip which can also be fragile. This is probably connected into the lens body to the CPU board and the zoom mechanism(inside the lens). Nothing to fear .. just be gentle with them.
(I thought I made a thread about repairing the 18-105VR .. but I haven't!)

My guess is that this lens may use a bit of a relay mechanism for the aperture prong to aperture mechanism and it may have come unstuck in some way(inside the lens). This is how the 18-105VR is setup, where the central portion of the rear of the lens has what look like a relay arm to the diaphragm itself. The physical diaphragm can be quite deep within the lens itself.
The thick black central section of the rear of the lens(the baffle) is independent of the rear mount. It could have two or three(my guess is three) teeny screws to separate it from the metal mount.
I did use teeny Philips screw drivers .. I think 000 size, but like I said, you have to be very careful not to round the screw heads ... which then makes it hard, if not impossible, to attach it again.
One other thing to watch for (if you try this). Don't allow the aperture relay mechanism to come apart from the lens mount(if it's set up this way).
It can be a bit tricky to get the orientation of the retaining ring back onto the baffle if you can't remember it.
On the 18-105VR it's part of the actual mount, and I removed it without taking note of how it went together .. ie marking it. I had to as I was replacing the mount.
If there is nothing wrong with the mount or the relay arm mechanicals, don't touch it .. it's probably spring loaded.
On the 18-105, the relay arm delves deeply into the lens to connect to the diaphragm. I think(from memory) it just mates correctly as long as the arm and retaining ring are mounted the right way round back onto the mount .. ie. no special tricks are needed to seat the mount and relay arm back onto the lens.

You MAY need to hold the small section of the aperture level against the spring to get them to mate up at which point they fit nicely together by feel .. I can't really remember as I did this 2 years ago .. but I remember it wasn't the hard part.
I'm pretty sure that the iris/diaphragm/opening itself isn't spring loaded and the springiness of the small aperture lever tab(what makes it return) is only from the spring that may be attached at the underside of the lens mount. So when you lift the rear mount off with the aperture lever tab, the iris should be in it's last resting place.

You don't need any special memory of how the lens mount is seated back onto the body of the lens, it only goes one way with this lens(as seen by the four screws).

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Ow man i just lost all my rely when i hit the wrong button!

Anyway i love the theory of turning up the radio on the car - and shaking it well away from my ear.!:lol:

I bit the bullet and took it to the repair centre in Rhodes - ill see what the damage bit for the damage is and ill let you know.

If it's too much then ill get something else - i might even try to fix the lens myself it it will cost as much to fix as to get a new one - foggy logic i know but i cOULD end up with 2 for 1 :-)

Ill let you know guys - thanks for the great help - what a very good forum!

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[arthurking83]

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If it's too much then ill get something else - i might even try to fix the lens myself it it will cost as much to fix as to get a new one - foggy logic i know but i cOULD end up with 2 for 1 :-)

.....

24-120 f/4 VR is a pretty good replacement for this lens.
I'm not sure exactly how much these retail for, but they don't seem to bad a lens.
This way you get the full sensor ability with the replacement.

good luck with it.

[MissionMan]

Don't forget Sigma have an art version which is rated higher than both the Nikon and Canon equivalents

Nikkor AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 24-120mm f/4G ED on Nikon D600 versus Sigma 24-105mm F4 DG OS HSM A Canon on Canon EOS 5D Mark III versus Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM on Canon EOS 5D Mark III - Side by side lens comparison - DxOMark (http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/AF-S-NIKKOR-24-120mm-f-4G-ED-VR-on-Nikon-D600-versus-Sigma-24-105mm-F4-DG-OS-HSM-A-Canon-on-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-versus-EF24-105mm-f-4L-IS-USM-on-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III___321_834_1255_795_164_795)


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[mongo]

Please let us know what it was and how much to fix.

If it is pronounced uneconomical to fix (which Mongo seriously doubts - it should be simple and relatively inexpensive) and you have nothing to loose, Mongo might even have a go for you if you wish.

[bricat]

Did we get a result from this?:D