My latest UPGRADE (a rare event)

[Arg]

I have just UPGRADED my Canon 7D system to a Panasonic GX7 system. I am one happy chappie. :2victo:

I do not change my gear that often or easily. It has been 3 or 4 years since I made such an UPGRADE.

I know that my choice of UPGRADE to a CSC (compact system camera) may raise a few eyebrows. Surely the logical UPGRADE path for me was to a full frame sensor system, because of what those sensors can do at the extremes of print size or low lighting levels?

No, I disagree. I could have bought a full frame system, but made a better choice. Better?

I think for each one of us 'true photographers' there is a most ideal available camera system, that OPTIMISES better than any other system to the way we really produce output and the way we really use our cameras. For many of us, this optimum could lie with the new breed of bridge cameras. For many more, a CSC with their great lens choices. For a few, a big full frame DSLR system (but much fewer than dictated by marketing and lust). And for a spectacularly few few, a view camera on a 50 pound tripod, shooting one sheet of film at a time.

For me, and I suspect for many others, including many who are not aware of it, a micro four thirds camera and lens system is absolutely optimal. It is a joy to carry around outdoors, a joy to handle, a joy to shoot with, and a joy to produce output with the files.

It is interesting to see a number of pro photographers moving to CSCs. Not to save money. Not to settle for second-rate photos, either. But because these systems are now capable of delivering genuine high quality and high performance.

Did anyone else get an UPGRADE for Christmas? Tell us how you UPGRADED to something closer to your true optimum. Especially if you did not move along the 'thoughtless path' to ever-bigger sensors.

Enjoy your New Year in photography. :flash:

P.S. the Sony A7 cameras do not IMHO qualify as CSCs, although they will surely be marketed as such. The physical laws of optics dictate that their lenses will always be too large to truly meet the grade.

[I @ M]

I guess 44 days is an eternity in camera technology advancement, it must be if your post from the 13/11/2013 (http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?125758-Where-is-Canon-these-days&p=1192033#post1192033) is true and you have seen the light since -----

Seriously, use whatever suits your needs the best but ferchrisakes please don't try to tell people one "system" is better than another because it simply isn't so.
There are so many variables in genre and abilities these days that any argument for one system will be easily and equally countered very compellingly with pictures from another make / model / format. :)

[ricktas]

I fail to see how someone upgrading to full frame could be called thoughtless. Surely that is their choice and to call them as such for their choice is blinkered, stupid and quite rude.

Enjoy your camera as I an sure your will. But to denigrate others for a different choice has done you no favours.

[old dog]

have to agree with Andrew and Rick on this issue. Cameras are definitely getting better in the smaller package. I have been tempted for over a year now and I am still holding off......why you may ask. Well I just know that I will be more limited in what I can do. I would really miss my D7000 cept for the weight....:D

[crafty1tutu]

I bought an Olympus E-PM1 micro four thirds camera a while back after an operation on my wrist was hindering my photography due to the weight of my 7D and Canon 180 mm 3.5 L series macro lens and whilst I am very happy with the quality of the photos and the lightness of the kit, there is no way (in my opinion) that the photos are as good as a DSLR. I still use the Olympus for situations where I can't be bothered carrying around my heavy gear, but I wouldn't feel confident taking it as my main camera on an overseas trip for example. You can check out my photos on Flickr if you wish and see what you think and see if you agree or not.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/83646071@N00/sets/72157633626220454/

[Tannin]

Leaving the tone of the OP aside for others to comment on (or not), in a way I agree. Sort of. I am currently considering one of those horrid (sorry!) little mirrorless things as a spare body which can take the same lenses as my SLRs and be (maybe) just OK for emergencies, but also (and more particularly) be near-enough to pocket size and more than handy as an inconspicuous little camera for use in towns. Also good for long walks where you really, really don't want to lug anything extra 'coz the 500/4 already weighs heaps but you want to be able to take the odd landscape shot as well without ever breaking Rule 1, which is never, ever take the birding lens off your camera 'coz the moment you do you can guarantee that some mega-rarity will pop up just to taunt you.

[Fruengalli]

I recently grabbed a Lumix GX1 but only as my "pocket size" point & shoot. This is never going to replace my 5D2 but is going to supplement my photo opps being small & unobtrusive.

[flashc]

I too have been looking a Panasonic, not as a primary camera but to compliment the DSLR's I have already...

I have a Canon G12 "compact" and although not in the same class as a GX7, it does the job I bought it for, something to carry in my pocket that will produce a reasonable jpg or raw image...

I decided to buy a Canon 70D in October instead of a new mirrorless compact after being allowed to take some test shots side by side with my 7D and a new 70D at high ISO using my lenses..

Personally, the 70D does most of the things my 7D can do, only better, in my opinion...

So, my opinion with regard to whether or why I would fully swap my DSLR for a compact, even if the compact had a better sensor...

I spend a lot of time researching before I spend my money and presently don't think I have made a 'thoughtless path' decision even though the 70D is not full frame...

It will do everything I personally require for the money...

Did you sell your 7D or do you still have it as a backup ?

[Allan Ryan]

no camera is best at everything
they all have strengths and weaknesses
so to me the idea of a One camera system is a little silly :)
why not have 2 or 3 and use the right tool for the job, what ever format that may be?

[Arg]

Hi everyone,

I apologise to anyone who took offence at what I wrote. I assure you that you have misread the OP. It was a simple celebration of my new camera purchase. Now I feel a bit like the Christmas Grinches came to steal away my joy.


I have just UPGRADED my Canon 7D system to a Panasonic GX7 system. I am one happy chappie. :2victo:

I do not change my gear that often or easily. It has been 3 or 4 years since I made such an UPGRADE.

I know that my choice of UPGRADE to a CSC (compact system camera) may raise a few eyebrows. Surely the logical UPGRADE path for me was to a full frame sensor system, because of what those sensors can do at the extremes of print size or low lighting levels?

No, I disagree. I could have bought a full frame system, but made a better choice. Better?

I think for each one of us 'true photographers' there is a most ideal available camera system, that OPTIMISES better than any other system to the way we really produce output and the way we really use our cameras. For many of us, this optimum could lie with the new breed of bridge cameras. For many more, a CSC with their great lens choices. For a few, a big full frame DSLR system (but much fewer than dictated by marketing and lust). And for a spectacularly few few, a view camera on a 50 pound tripod, shooting one sheet of film at a time.

For me, and I suspect for many others, including many who are not aware of it, a micro four thirds camera and lens system is absolutely optimal. It is a joy to carry around outdoors, a joy to handle, a joy to shoot with, and a joy to produce output with the files.

It is interesting to see a number of pro photographers moving to CSCs. Not to save money. Not to settle for second-rate photos, either. But because these systems are now capable of delivering genuine high quality and high performance.

Did anyone else get an UPGRADE for Christmas? Tell us how you UPGRADED to something closer to your true optimum. Especially if you did not move along the 'thoughtless path' to ever-bigger sensors.

Enjoy your New Year in photography. :flash:

Above is the OP copied, with a few bits in bold that must have been difficult to read the first time. How am I telling anyone what is best for them? Or where do I say that CSC cameras are right for everyone? I don't think so.


I fail to see how someone upgrading to full frame could be called thoughtless. Surely that is their choice and to call them as such for their choice is blinkered, stupid and quite rude.

Enjoy your camera as I an sure your will. But to denigrate others for a different choice has done you no favours.

Well I hope you get your kicks out of writing that way to people who never said any of the things you attributed to them. I *clearly* wrote that for some people a full frame DSLR is exactly the right camera. And my 'thoughtless path' is simply saying that you don't have to think too hard to pick a full frame camera as an upgrade; it is an 'easy pick'. But you know, it is not an insult to say that a lot of people who upgrade to full frame never really needed that much camera, I would have thought it a simple truth and not something that warrants your calling me 'blinkered, stupid and quite rude'. Plenty of people buy a large 4WD car -- it clearly has more capability than a Camry -- but when they look back on what they actually did with it, some will find it was exactly suited to how they used it, but others will look back and think they actually just drove it around town with never more than 4 people in it.


have to agree with Andrew and Rick on this issue. Cameras are definitely getting better in the smaller package. I have been tempted for over a year now and I am still holding off......why you may ask. Well I just know that I will be more limited in what I can do. I would really miss my D7000 cept for the weight....:D

Hi old dog, yes, looks like the D7000 is still right for you. :) Unless there is a gap between what you *can* do with a D7000, and what you *do* do with a D7000... ;)


I bought an Olympus E-PM1 micro four thirds camera a while back after an operation on my wrist was hindering my photography due to the weight of my 7D and Canon 180 mm 3.5 L series macro lens and whilst I am very happy with the quality of the photos and the lightness of the kit, there is no way (in my opinion) that the photos are as good as a DSLR. I still use the Olympus for situations where I can't be bothered carrying around my heavy gear, but I wouldn't feel confident taking it as my main camera on an overseas trip for example. You can check out my photos on Flickr if you wish and see what you think and see if you agree or not.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/83646071@N00/sets/72157633626220454/

Hi crafty, you look like a macro shooter? It would be interesting to see what an Olympus EM-1 with Olympus 60mm macro m.Zuiko can do for you. I suspect that if you are a sophisticated user of off-camera flash, the advantage would still lie with the Canon for your work. But if you have another approach to lighting, the µ4/3 option might amaze.


I guess 44 days is an eternity in camera technology advancement, it must be if your post from the 13/11/2013 (http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?125758-Where-is-Canon-these-days&p=1192033#post1192033) is true and you have seen the light since -----

Seriously, use whatever suits your needs the best but ferchrisakes please don't try to tell people one "system" is better than another because it simply isn't so.
There are so many variables in genre and abilities these days that any argument for one system will be easily and equally countered very compellingly with pictures from another make / model / format. :)

The post of mine you quoted was simply answering the question of the OP in that thread, i.e. Where is Canon these days? And my answer was basically to say 'they are top dog, not about to be deposed as the top brand of camera manufacturer'. That doesn't change just because I was, at the same time, in the process of acquiring a different brand of camera. :)

And, mate, I definitely didn't tell anybody that one system is better than another -- except to say what I now think is best for me.


Leaving the tone of the OP aside for others to comment on (or not), in a way I agree. Sort of. I am currently considering one of those horrid (sorry!) little mirrorless things as a spare body which can take the same lenses as my SLRs and be (maybe) just OK for emergencies, but also (and more particularly) be near-enough to pocket size and more than handy as an inconspicuous little camera for use in towns. Also good for long walks where you really, really don't want to lug anything extra 'coz the 500/4 already weighs heaps but you want to be able to take the odd landscape shot as well without ever breaking Rule 1, which is never, ever take the birding lens off your camera 'coz the moment you do you can guarantee that some mega-rarity will pop up just to taunt you.

Hi tannin, a nice reply and in good humour too! I can see the fun in your reference to mirrorless cameras that I highlighted above. I am glad I didn't write that way about DSLR cameras, though, because it would have earned me a real telling off. ;)


I too have been looking a Panasonic, not as a primary camera but to compliment the DSLR's I have already...

I have a Canon G12 "compact" and although not in the same class as a GX7, it does the job I bought it for, something to carry in my pocket that will produce a reasonable jpg or raw image...

I decided to buy a Canon 70D in October instead of a new mirrorless compact after being allowed to take some test shots side by side with my 7D and a new 70D at high ISO using my lenses..

Personally, the 70D does most of the things my 7D can do, only better, in my opinion...

So, my opinion with regard to whether or why I would fully swap my DSLR for a compact, even if the compact had a better sensor...

I spend a lot of time researching before I spend my money and presently don't think I have made a 'thoughtless path' decision even though the 70D is not full frame...

It will do everything I personally require for the money...

Did you sell your 7D or do you still have it as a backup ?

Hi flash, I had to sell the 7D to pay for the µ4/3 system. I am sure you will get a heap of joy from your new 70D. I sure don't need the 7D as 'backup' -- any more than you need a D800 with a full set of Nikon lenses as 'backup' for your 70D. BTW my 7D was a beaut camera and I loved it. I will always have fond memories of it. But I am on a new adventure now, and one thing I can report even in these early days: it is more fun.


no camera is best at everything
they all have strengths and weaknesses
so to me the idea of a One camera system is a little silly :)
why not have 2 or 3 and use the right tool for the job, what ever format that may be?

Sure, who wouldn't like to have 3 cars, 4 motorbikes, 5 camera systems and 2 houses?

The only advantage I can see to having one camera system when we can afford many, would be that we might learn it fully and deeply and become highly proficient in it.

[ricktas]

Did anyone else get an UPGRADE for Christmas? Tell us how you UPGRADED to something closer to your true optimum. Especially if you did not move along the 'thoughtless path' to ever-bigger sensors.

The above is my red highlight from your original post

YOU basically called everyone who has bought a Full Frame camera as thoughtless. So if we (yes several responders) misread it, maybe it was because you wrote it without much thought to the wording and for that reason the replies simply reacted to your wording.


Hi everyone,

I apologise to anyone who took offence at what I wrote. I assure you that you have misread the OP. It was a simple celebration of my new camera purchase. Now I feel a bit like the Christmas Grinches came to steal away my joy.

Apology accepted.

I am glad you researched and are happy with your purchase. I really am. And good on you for taking the time to work out what you wanted. Hope we get to see some of the photos soon. You got yourself into trouble by simply inferring (accidentally it would seem) that others who do not follow your path are thoughtless.

Enjoy the new gear!

[crafty1tutu]

"Hi crafty, you look like a macro shooter? It would be interesting to see what an Olympus EM-1 with Olympus 60mm macro m.Zuiko can do for you. I suspect that if you are a sophisticated user of off-camera flash, the advantage would still lie with the Canon for your work. But if you have another approach to lighting, the µ4/3 option might amaze."

I just love all photography, but my main love is macro. I shoot with a Canon 7D and now a 5D Mk III with a Canon 180 mm 3.5 L series lens, alternating between the two cameras. The 7D has a slight edge over the 5D with faster frames per second for bees in flight etc, but the 5D Mk III is much sharper. I never use flash and hand hold for my photos. I am saving to buy the 60 mm macro m.Zuiko as I also would be interested in the results. I did buy an adaptor to use my Canon lenses on the Olympus, but so far I haven't figured out how to get it to work. It fits the camera and the lenses fit, but I get no picture on the screen - I reread the ad and it said I have to use another setting to get it to work, but haven't had time to sit and try and figure it out. I find the Olympus an excellent little camera for family days and days when I can't be bothered carry my heavy gear around. You can look at my photos on my Flickr account if you wish at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/83646071@N00/

I do have a set for photos with the Olympus as well as sets for my insects (along with many others LOL). Do you have a Flickr account - I would be interested in seeing your photos both with a DSLR and the Panasonic.

[arthurking83]

....

And my 'thoughtless path' is simply saying that you don't have to think too hard to pick a full frame camera as an upgrade; it is an 'easy pick'. But you know, it is not an insult to say that a lot of people who upgrade to full frame never really needed that much camera, I would have thought it a simple truth and not something that warrants your calling me 'blinkered, stupid and quite rude'. .....

:confused:

According to who?

Why is it that people updating/upgrading to a larger sensor camera 'don't need that much camera'?

People who make these comments don't really understand what this upgrade path really means!
(and yes that also includes the so called pros out there offering advice on such matters).

What you see as a simple truth, to others seems quite hilarious.

While YOU may not need, nor see any benefit in updating to a larger sensor camera, your comment is true only for your situation.
But what about those of us that see the update path to a larger sensor camera as a need ... as a need for alternate possibility in capturing images that they couldn't achieve prior to the update.
What if, everyone that has subsequently updated to a larger sensor camera(which implies from a smaller sensor camera) unwittingly realized after a period of use and familiarity with the new gear that they actually did need it in some way or another?


I think that, based on your comments re the easy path to upgrading to a full frame camera, may be related too not fully understanding what this upgrade path actually can achieve and the perils in doing so.
I have no idea as to whether you have or haven't made this step, but your comment that it's an easy less thoughtful path, is an opinion only held by yourself.
If you have attempted this update path, then surely you know of the difficulties associated with it.


As a matter of opinion, my belief is that the easy update path is actually the one you have subsequently chosen for yourself.

[Lance B]

:confused:

According to who?

Why is it that people updating/upgrading to a larger sensor camera 'don't need that much camera'?

People who make these comments don't really understand what this upgrade path really means!
(and yes that also includes the so called pros out there offering advice on such matters).

What you see as a simple truth, to others seems quite hilarious.

While YOU may not need, nor see any benefit in updating to a larger sensor camera, your comment is true only for your situation.
But what about those of us that see the update path to a larger sensor camera as a need ... as a need for alternate possibility in capturing images that they couldn't achieve prior to the update.
What if, everyone that has subsequently updated to a larger sensor camera(which implies from a smaller sensor camera) unwittingly realized after a period of use and familiarity with the new gear that they actually did need it in some way or another?


I think that, based on your comments re the easy path to upgrading to a full frame camera, may be related too not fully understanding what this upgrade path actually can achieve and the perils in doing so.
I have no idea as to whether you have or haven't made this step, but your comment that it's an easy less thoughtful path, is an opinion only held by yourself.
If you have attempted this update path, then surely you know of the difficulties associated with it.


As a matter of opinion, my belief is that the easy update path is actually the one you have subsequently chosen for yourself.

Well said, Arthur!

Unfortunately, I am going to call a spade a spade and say that the OP was trying to justify their purchase with a thinly veiled dig at those that have made the (thoughtless) upgrade (yes, I mean upgrade) to a larger sensored camera. I think the OP would have been better off just saying that he/she has decided to go the path of a CSC because it fits what they do better and forget all the waffling about how it is probably better for most but most are too stupid to realise.

[Arg]

I have decided that this forum is populated by a (hopefully small) number of mean-spirited people, who are trawling posts for a word that they can leap on and start calling people names, because that gives them so much more satisfaction than politely checking if the word was really the perfect expression of their meaning. Or even cutting a bit of slack because it is obvious from the rest of the post that it was essentially a fun and happy post to celebrate a new camera.

I feel distinctly bullied, and with good reason.

As for the suggestion in the middle of all that, to upload some photos taken with my new camera --- you must be joking. I'm already sorry I shared my joy in words -- imperfect words -- well guess what, my photos aren't perfect either.

[ameerat42]

Args - and others. Now let's all hold off a bit. So it has taken a few posts to sort this out.

To Args: This is a forum, and to the limit of being rude to each other, people can express opinions robustly.
You have expressed yours - as you are fully entitled to - and others have responded likewise.

To all (and I do include myself here, quite): Think about what you want to commit to ether (aforetimes paper).

If people want to make an issue out of this thread, it will surely be a lost cause. Let it be used for some sort of learning, and leave it at that.

Back to you Args: you have explained your intention and that should do.

The aforesaid represent humble opinions of the undersigned.
Am.

[Lance B]

I agree, Am. Good post. I think we should move on and get on with it.

I may have ben a little over the top with my response, but I call it as I see it.

[bricat]

Congrats on the new camera. cheers Brian

[Granville]

Yep. Close it off Rick. Potential never ending discussion.

[Tannin]

Potential never ending discussion.

You mean like every virtually other topic that is worth talking about? Everything of interest in photography is "potentially never-ending". If it wasn't for the never-ending topics, this forum wouldn't exist. Is it better to shoot AV or manual? Never-ending topic. Canon vs Nikon? Never-ending topic. Cheaper, lighter glass vs expensive fast glass? Never-ending topic. In-body vs in-lens IS? Never-ending topic. Is the rule of thirds always relevant or should you ignore it? Never-ending topic. Is heavily processed HDR work real photography? Never-ending topic. How much nose reduction is the right amount? Never-ending topic. And so on.

Been a good discussion so far, none the worse for a few hot tempers here and there, with worthwhile views to consider, and I have been following it with interest.

[JimmyCat]

You mean like every virtually other topic that is worth talking about? Everything of interest in photography is "potentially never-ending". If it wasn't for the never-ending topics, this forum wouldn't exist. Is it better to shoot AV or manual? Never-ending topic. Canon vs Nikon? Never-ending topic. Cheaper, lighter glass vs expensive fast glass? Never-ending topic. In-body vs in-lens IS? Never-ending topic. Is the rule of thirds always relevant or should you ignore it? Never-ending topic. Is heavily processed HDR work real photography? Never-ending topic. How much nose reduction is the right amount? Never-ending topic. And so on.

Been a good discussion so far, none the worse for a few hot tempers here and there, with worthwhile views to consider, and I have been following it with interest.

Hi Tannin - I inherited my looks from the old man I think and the considerable nose goes with it however I am up for a debate!! :D

Cheers

[NikonNellie]

Just letting you all know - I have just upgraded to a full frame camera......and I put a lot of thought into my purchase and how I will be using it. :)

[Lance B]

Just letting you all know - I have just upgraded to a full frame camera......and I put a lot of thought into my purchase and how I will be using it. :)

Congratulations, Narelle! So, is it the D800, D800E or D610?

We are going to the kestrel spot on Monday with Sifor (troy from ther Gold Coast as he is here on holidays) if you are interested in trialling your new purchase. :D

[Granville]

Good for you Narelle. Nice.

(Don't forget to update that info in your profile). ;)

[NikonNellie]

I actually haven't received it yet. I bought the D800, Sigma 85mm f/1.4 HSM, Sigma Apo 70 - 200 f/2.8 OS HSM and the Tamron 24 - 70 f/2.8 VS DG. I can also use by Sigma X2 Teleconverter on the 70 - 200.

Lance not sure if I will have the camera by then but I probably will come out with you anyway - hubby is working the late shift and won't be home until around 9pm. :D

[Lance B]

I actually haven't received it yet. I bought the D800, Sigma 85mm f/1.4 HSM, Sigma Apo 70 - 200 f/2.8 OS HSM and the Tamron 24 - 70 f/2.8 VS DG. I can also use by Sigma X2 Teleconverter on the 70 - 200.

Lance not sure if I will have the camera by then but I probably will come out with you anyway - hubby is working the late shift and won't be home until around 9pm. :D

Wow, you certainly have spent big and on some seriously good gear!! :th3:

I guess hubby has to work late shift in order to help pay for it all! :D

Anyway, look forward to seeing you there. :)

[Tommo1965]

I read the OP..must admit I didn't read anything negative and understood the " thoughtless remark" more as a "no brainer" type reference and that FF was a logical upgrade for many ..
I looked at the EM1 as a alternative to my current gear ..great camera but for me the files that it produced just didn't have the zing that my D800 does..so Ill lug the beast for a while longer until something better ( for me ) comes along ....good luck with the new gear mate

[arthurking83]

I read the OP..must admit I didn't read anything negative and understood the " thoughtless remark" more as a "no brainer" type reference and that FF was a logical upgrade for many .......

I think that's the problem here:

the idea or notion that an upgrade from a smaller format to a larger format is a no brainer ... that it's just taken for granted as an update path without the need to think about it.
The reality is tho, as Narelle has also pointed out, that it does require a bit(even a lot) of thought, unless finances are in plentiful supply.
For some folks this may be true, for others not so ...

So the point, whether made in the form of retribution, or merely as a comment is that this so called upgrade path is not necessarily so!

For Nikon folks(and I think Sony users) the path is made a bit easier, yet a lot more expensive if Nikon or Zeiss lenses are to be taken into consideration, but for Canon devotees the upgrade from APS-C to FF is made even more difficult, if the owner only has EF-S lenses at their disposal. Hence people that do tend to upgrade via this method, they tend to ask questions before they commit to the upgrade path.

This is evidenced by the numerous forum questions posted by many(both here and on almost all other fora) who may be unsure of this line of reasoning.

Yet hardly any, if any, questions are posted asking for advice and commentary with respect to 'upgrading' to a CSC type camera!

Those two conditions subsequently mean one thing:

the upgrade path to a larger sensor camera is much less thoughtless(no brainer) and more likely to be thought provoking!

.... yet an upgrade to a CSC appears to be much less thought provoking, or more natural , evidenced with proclamations of just having done it .. and subsequent related posts to the effect that they should have done it sooner .. etc, ad infinitum

if this weren't the situation close to 50% of most 'never ending' photography related forum activity wouldn't exist.


Of course another possible explanation could be; that people upgrading to a larger sensor simply know a lot less, and people upgrading to a smaller CSC type format know more ... but I doubt that's a reasonable proposition. :p

[Tommo1965]

I suppose most with a top crop body such as a d300 or d300s saw the D700 as the logical next step...but now we live in a world where M4/3 or ML cameras touch on the quality that FF cameras produce the upgrade path needs more thought than the equation on whether you can afford FF lenses or not..of course every decision needs some thought financial or otherwise , but now we have many more choices that will do the job, photographically speaking, a shift to outside to "box thinking" is becoming more and more seductive rather than the next ( no brainer ) step in your current gear line up .. and thats what I think the OP meant .

also if poster is starting threads on a decision to enter the FF arena of cameras doesnt mean its thought provoking..in many cases they are trying to justify a financial expense on any gain they may have for the upgrade ...and on the reverse people that may consider a lesser camera are determining if the image tradeoff is worth the portability and cash in their pocket ..so for me to sell all my nikon gear and buy a lesser camera rather than a D900 would require more thought and consideration than just buying the D900