Newby looking for gear advice.

[coolhand78]

Hi Guys,


I'm brand new here and am looking to invest in my first decent camera, i'm currently looking at the canon 7D, but would like some advice
on what the more experienced people here think I should be looking at... my budget is circa $1200, which i know isn't a lot as that will be for the
camera body and lens(es)...

as mentioned I've been looking at the canon 7D, and i'd really love to get the 17-55mm f2.8 IS lens but I'm guessing that will come in well over my
budget. I'll be most shooting, architecture, landscapes and skies.

any advice would be greatly welcomed.

Thanks in advacne

Luke.

[Hayaku]

It depends on your experience and needs as a photographer. There are plenty of cameras that are cheaper that might work out better for you.

You marked your self as a beginner, does that mean you know how ISO/aperture/shutter speed affect each other?

The 7d is on the professional side of Canon's cameras and I think is used more by wild life or sports shooters because of the fast burst rate. Check this thread because it might give you a better idea on the 7d http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?121097-Need-some-Help-with-Canon-!!.

Regarding your lens choice, a wider angle lens might work better. Tokina's 11-16 will probably work better for architecture and landscape stuff. You will be sacrificing versatility though because wide angle lenses are terrible for portraiture.

There is a Canon forum here so you may want to ask further questions there if you do commit to Canon.

[ricktas]

Agree with the above reply. You can spend $500 or $10,000 and get some good photography gear, but it is how you use it and what you want to use it for that determines how good it is for you. Any of the current model cameras from any of the major manufacturers will work brilliantly, but you need lenses that suit what you want to shoot. You have mentioned a wider angle lens and a propensity for landscape photography. I think the 7D and the Sigma 10-20 might give you what you are looking for, but sometimes we want to zoom in on detail in the environment, especially street and architectural type shots, or to zoom in to that tall ship on the water. You might need to consider a reasonable length zoom down the track.

If budget is the main constraint you could look at some of the grey markets from hong kong like DWI and eglobal to get your gear a bit cheaper.

[ameerat42]

You are paying for the dual processors in the Canon 7D (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos7d/), while in the likes of the 650D (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-650d-rebel-t4i) you are not. Bit it is the later
DIGIC 5 processor, compared to the 7D's (dual) DIGIC 4.

This page has a timeline listing of all Canonery: http://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/cameras

Good luck, and enjoy AP.
Am.

[coolhand78]

Hi Guys,

thanks for the replies, to answer some questions, yes i am aware of how ISO/apperture/shutter speed work,
however, I've not had a lot of practice with a decent camera which is why I've labelled myself a beginner.

as far as lenses go, how do the sigma and tokina lenses compare with the canon equivalents? I've read good things about
the canon 17-55 IS f2.8 USM lens that I mentioned in my first post, but to me it's quite expensive and is out of my budget,
is there a 'cheaper' equivalent lens from another manufacturer that I ought to be looking at?

similarly, with the wider angle lens, I'd like a prime lens in the vacinity of a 22mm but do you think that i should go lower,
like the sigma 10-20 that was mentioned...?

and lastly, what is the consensus on purchasing 2nd hand gear? is it generally pretty safe to purchase cameras and lenses 2nd hand
or is it more widely recommended to purchase new?

thanks again for all your help!

[ricktas]

to answer part of your question 22mm lens on a crop-sensor body is not wide angle, you need to be looking under 20mm to get to wide, and the lower the number the better.

[rackham]

The 7D will do what you want just fine, but it'll do things that move quickly better than a lot of the competition.

You may enjoy that versatility...

... or you may find that picking up a cheaper 60D that will do what you want to more or less the same ability as the 7D is more desirable as it enables you to look at UWA lenses that are a notch better.

[Dug]

For its features the 7D can be found for a very reasonable price these day.
You get a rugged, weather sealed body and an advanced AF system, so if those things are important to you then its hard to go past this model.
But you can get less expensive models with the same sensor in them.

If f2.8 is not an important reason for wanting the 17-55 f2.8, then as a first general purpose lens consider the also well regarded 15-85 f3.5-5.6 http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-S-15-85mm-f-3.5-5.6-IS-USM-Lens-Review.aspx

Its about $400 less than the 17-55, but still quality match for the 7D and a great walk around lens to get you started.

[coolhand78]

For its features the 7D can be found for a very reasonable price these day.
You get a rugged, weather sealed body and an advanced AF system, so if those things are important to you then its hard to go past this model.
But you can get less expensive models with the same sensor in them.

If f2.8 is not an important reason for wanting the 17-55 f2.8, then as a first general purpose lens consider the also well regarded 15-85 f3.5-5.6 http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-S-15-85mm-f-3.5-5.6-IS-USM-Lens-Review.aspx

Its about $400 less than the 17-55, but still quality match for the 7D and a great walk around lens to get you started.

thanks for the reply, i've been looking at this lens, and in all honesty, it is most probably the one i'll end up getting.
In what situations do you think that the 2.8f lens would be better than the 15-85 3.5-5.6f?

[ricktas]

thanks for the reply, i've been looking at this lens, and in all honesty, it is most probably the one i'll end up getting.
In what situations do you think that the 2.8f lens would be better than the 15-85 3.5-5.6f?

Lenses autofocus using their widest aperture. An f2.8 lens will find focus in low light where an f3.5 will hunt and may not focus lock...that is one of the main advantages when shooting landscapes

[coolhand78]

With regards to 2nd hand gear would it be advisable to maybe find a decent 5D mark II as I've seen them go for similar money as the 7D... Or am I best to just stick with the 7D...?

[Hayaku]

If you get a 5d instead, you will need to research different lenses. Crop sensor lenses will not work on Canon full frame bodies.

A question I do have for you though is why do you want your starting camera to be a higher end model?

A 60d is not much of a step down from a 7d if you are not shooting sports. Also the 700d has the new Digic 5 sensor and both models are cheaper so you would have more to spend on your lens.

[trueblue]

My brother in-law uses a 7D and I have had a go with it. Great camera and good for sports etc. I prefer full frame but that is a bit of a jump in price.

[ameerat42]

My brother in-law uses a 7D and I have had a go with it. Great camera and good for sports etc. I prefer full frame but that is a bit of a jump in price.
A FF to match the "sports" performance of the 7D? Would that be a 6D? If so, it would be quite a jump in price.

The OP has already indicated a limit of funds, and I think that Hayaku's advice is pretty spot on.
Am.

[Dug]

With regards to 2nd hand gear would it be advisable to maybe find a decent 5D mark II as I've seen them go for similar money as the 7D... Or am I best to just stick with the 7D...?

The 5d mkII is a very different camera to the 7D .
For the subject matter you mentioned, "architecture, landscapes and skies" the 5DmkII is more geared towards these things than the 7D.

To get a 5DmkII you are giving away the sports, action photography of the 7D, which you possibly did not need to pay extra for in the first place.

Going with a full frame like the 5DmkII as mention the EFS lenses such as the 17-55 and 15- 85 are no longer an option.
Instead you would be looking at the 22-70L f2.8 no IS original version (discontinued so SH) and the 22-105L f4 IS, there are other options but I'm thinking of lenses of the quality for the mkII but on a budget.

Your main decision is do you want to go down the full frame path or the crop frame path, there are advantages in terms of suitable lens selection in deciding this from the outset.

I agree with the suggestion already made to make it between the 60D instead of the 7D vs 5DmkII.

60D leaves more money for lenses and you get more reach in the telephoto range.

5DmkII takes a very nice landscape and similar picture , its no action camera, suitable lenses will generally cost more, though you have been looking at the high end of crop frame lenses.


A FF to match the "sports" performance of the 7D? Would that be a 6D? If so, it would be quite a jump in price.

No the match would be the 5Dmk3 a very big jump in price.

[rackham]

A FF to match the "sports" performance of the 7D? Would that be a 6D? If so, it would be quite a jump in price.


Nein. The 6D is anything but a "dedicated" sports/action camera. The autofocusing points, accuracy and speed are all short on things to write home about. It's burst is similarly underwhelming.

This isn't to say that you can't do it - I do/try to - but your (many more) pennies will work harder for you on a 5DmkIII...

[coolhand78]

Thanks for all the replies guys!

I've looked into the 60D but I didn't think that the price difference was that great and that for the bit extra I'd be better off going with the 7D,
as it does have few slightly better options...? ISO, dynamic range, AF etc...

whilst my initial spend is limited, I do have every intention of acquiring better lenses etc as time progresses so i do want to get something that will
last me at least until i feel that I'm ready to jump up to a Full Frame camera...

I've decided to shelve the idea of a 2nd hand full frame camera for the time being, i think i'll stick with the 7D (or 60D) if I can be convinced ;)
and at the moment i'm looking at the 15-85mm lens with a <20mm lens to follow...?

[Hayaku]

I don't think this has been mentioned but how far are you willing to go past your budget?

Buying from a brick and mortar your looking around 1500 for the 60d w/ 15-85mm and around 1900 for the 7d w/ 15-85mm. Buying grey for the 7d kit, around 1600.

Just asking cause you said your initial budget is around 1200 for lens + body.

[crafty1tutu]

I have a 7D and do a lot of macro bees in flight etc and I find it excellent for fast flying insects and birds. Before this I had a 50D and found the noise issue at high ISO was restrictive, but so far had no trouble with the 7D. I have bought most of my camera gear off Ebay and never had any problems - maybe I have been lucky. My favourite walk around lens for travel is the Canon 18-200 3.5 lens. On our overseas trip in 2011 I used the 50 mm 1.4 lens for most of my photos as I took my 70-200 lens (too restrictive in tight spaces), Canon 10-22 lens (too wide in some instances) and my 50 mm and the 50 mm became my workhorse. On our next trip in August, I will be taking my 18-200 lens as my main lens as I won't have to change lenses as often. Now I just have to decide which other lenses to take (probably my 50 mm again).

[coolhand78]

I don't think this has been mentioned but how far are you willing to go past your budget?

Buying from a brick and mortar your looking around 1500 for the 60d w/ 15-85mm and around 1900 for the 7d w/ 15-85mm. Buying grey for the 7d kit, around 1600.

Just asking cause you said your initial budget is around 1200 for lens + body.

I can probably stretch it out a bit but I'll prob have to buy 'grey' or there's the possibility of 2nd hand but at this stage I'm not leaning that way, though there is a 7D on eBay at the moment with a couple of good lenses for $1500...

[Hayaku]

Just something to think about, the 70d has been announced. I think it should be able to match up to a 7d but you may need to buy the lens you want separately.

It will also probably mean a price drop for the 60d and maybe even the 7d.

[coolhand78]

Just something to think about, the 70d has been announced. I think it should be able to match up to a 7d but you may need to buy the lens you want separately.

It will also probably mean a price drop for the 60d and maybe even the 7d.

Do you have a link with more details about when it's due, specs and price?

I had a play on a friends 60D yesterday and id be quite happy with that but the 70D might be worth a look..?

[ameerat42]

Of course!
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-70d
Am.

[coolhand78]

Of course!
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-70d
Am.

looks like it's coming in more expensive than the 7D...? features look great, but price might be inhibiting for me...

[ameerat42]

I found this for body only in Aus:
http://www.d-d-photographics.com.au/products/Canon-70D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Body.html

Is that expensive?

Also, look at: http://www.shopbot.com.au/pp-canon-eos-7d-price-86219.html
Am.

[coolhand78]

I found this for body only in Aus:
http://www.d-d-photographics.com.au/products/Canon-70D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Body.html

Is that expensive?

Also, look at: http://www.shopbot.com.au/pp-canon-eos-7d-price-86219.html
Am.

my initial spend is limited to around $1200-$1400 for both body and lens so for me now it is a bit much, if i could find a way to have a bit more to spend
it'd definitely be on the cards...

it will be interesting to see what people say about it when it's released ie. how it compares to the 7D and 60D... to know if it's worth the extra money, certainly on paper
it looks the goods...!

also, does this 70D sort of blow out the naming convention? in that it appears to supersede the 7D?

[ameerat42]

Isn't it an update of the 60D? (???)
Am.

(PS: Once more, Canon failed to notify me of these changes. Result: chaos and confusion!)

[Hayaku]

It is supposed to be an update for the 60d. 7d mk2 next year maybe?

Also some of the initial previewed updates seem to be geared more towards video or live view shootings... if i understood the stuff i read right :p