Are Australians very good photographers on a whole?

[Bear Dale]

Ok this is not to get anyone's nose out of joint (are noses even actually jointed? anyways I digress) but after spending an inordinate amount of time on U.S and more international based photography sites......the level of work that people are producing is pretty mind blowing. Like I mean out of the park good!

Now while we do see work posted up on Ausph and other Aussie sites that is great (often very much so) it 'seems' and I say this with an open mind and willing to be shot down in inglorious flames that par for par we're behind the eight ball when it comes to the quality of what I'm seeing posted internationally.

Anyone else ever had the same thoughts?

[ameerat42]

Probably a sampling error on your part. I also spend some time on 2 other OS sites and their stuff is no better/worse (richer/poorer) than here.
But that might just be a sampling error on my part.
:rolleyes:m.

[WhoDo]

It's easier to make a quid as a "Fine Art" photographer in a market the size of the USA or Europe. That may drive the perception to a degree. That said, I don't think our photographers are better or worse in any other category. How would you tell anyway? It's only where the scope broadens to Art categories, because we don't have the markets to support photographer's who are doing that regularly. JMHO of course. :confused013

[Steve Axford]

I used to spend quite a bit of time on this site http://1x.com/photos . It has some very good photos on it and if you like the style it is well worth while. It would be rare that a competition winner here would get accepted on 1x. That's not to say that Oz photographers aren't any good. It just says that there are a lot of other photographers in the world and that this site isn't really designed to produce the best possible comp winners.

[ricktas]

Australia has 25 million people. the US has 250 million.

We also tend to see photos of things like the Sydney Harbour Bridge as cliched but show a damn good bridge shot to an American and see what the reaction is. We may be perhaps a little blase about Australian images, after all it is what we see every day.

The other thing I notice, more so in wedding photography but it happens in other genre as well, is that there is a tendency to follow the latest 'it' style. A few years back that was selective colour, then we got trash the dress, recently it is the low contrast stuff and a bleach bypass type effect. We seem to be driven by what trends are happening elsewhere and follow along. Australian wedding photographers do not seem to me to be very innovative. But then again are they being driven by the market demand? "provide what the client wants".

I don't really think we are not good photographers and certainly Australians produce some amazing work, but maybe we are not innovative in some genre.

[JM Tran]

Australian photographers/amateurs/hobbyists compared to friends and colleagues I have seen in Asia, Europe, US

fashion = behind

commercial = behind

wedding = far behind

travel/documentary = on par

portraiture = on par

[ricktas]

The other aspect is the instant world we live in. Go back 50 years and it would take months for the 'latest fashions' to even make it to our shores. The internet and satellite access to TV has meant for the first time in human history we are seeing what is happening on the other side of the planet, as it happens. Maybe Australians are just used to being behind.

I sometimes am grateful we take our time cause some of the so called fashion and photography of it, is not good! Commercial photography has taken a hit in Australia as more and more of what we used to produce is now made overseas, and the manufacturer uses an overseas photographer and then those image files are sent around the world for use, where in the past they were taken here.

Copying everyone else does not necessarily mean advancing, being better, improving.

[zollo]

In general i agree with the op.

JM your wedding = far behind comment intrigues me. In recent times a fair share of the worlds top 10/top 20/top 100 wedding photographers as rated by various photographic 'authorities' are from Australia. Do you have any more specifics as to where we are behind?

I tend to agree with a previous poster that many if not most photos posted here and other oz forums would not make it onto a curated site like 1x. Personally I feel that is because Europe is a way ahead in regards to acceptance of photography as an art, and also it must be said, their use of image manipulation.

Which brings me to my last point, in general, in my opinion, Australian photographers are a country mile behind their acceptance, skills and use of photoshop, etc. in fact, I struggle to think of many Australian photographers who are highly regarded in their use of, and skill in post processing, beyond really what are the basics.

[ricktas]

I suppose the other question that needs to be asked, if we are way behind the rest of the world, do we care?

As long as we, our clients, the people that view our photos, look a them, critique them, find what we are doing as good, then who cares if the rest of the world thinks it is better, more advanced than Australian photographers.

Following along blindly with the rest of the world really doesn't mean it is the right direction.

[ameerat42]

It depends on what "behind" means. You could "turn around" and become a leader. (Just like everybody else does.)
Trends! Yeah, g'day mate! (Like in a recent ad - with that sardonic tone.)
Am.

[zollo]

If you earn your living from it, already you would care.
And imo, if it stifles creativity by not caring, that is not good either

[Mark L]

I tend to agree with a previous poster that many if not most photos posted here and other oz forums would not make it onto a curated site like 1x.

Is that because nearly anyone can post nearly anything here. Many photos are posted in an attempt to learn, not in presenting excellence.

[ricktas]

If you earn your living from it, already you would care.
And imo, if it stifles creativity by not caring, that is not good either

But is copying what is done in the US and Europe being creative..or just copying?

[zollo]

Could be either, couldn't it?
I could learn from them and apply it locally but I kinda fail to see how ignoring it will help me improve at all.

[ricktas]

Could be either, couldn't it?
I could learn from them and apply it locally but I kinda fail to see how ignoring it will help me improve at all.

Cause ignoring this season's trend and going on your own path could well mean you are a leader in next season's trend, instead of a follower. I see it all to often, especially in wedding photography how Australians follow whatever is trendy OS, rather than try and be the creator of a trend. My comment about ignoring it was that if we want to lead, we have to learn not to follow, and to do so would mean ignoring the OS trends.

[zollo]

Is that because nearly anyone can post nearly anything here. Many photos are posted in an attempt to learn, not in presenting excellence.

Yeah absolutely, although I do see a lot of what is posted here is also on people's websites and portfolios.

Not a big deal, but I personally like to try and push myself quite hard.

[ricktas]

Yeah absolutely, although I do see a lot of what is posted here is also on people's websites and portfolios.

Not a big deal, but I personally like to try and push myself quite hard.

I agree, and this thread was about 'are Australian photographers good enough on a whole'. I think we are, but we need to get out from under the umbrella and get more creative in our own distinct and unique way, and then the world will sit up and take more notice. I think in some genre we tend to let the rest of the world lead..and we follow. We need to get away from that if we want to impress on the world stage.

[zollo]

Cause ignoring this season's trend and going on your own path could well mean you are a leader in next season's trend, instead of a follower. I see it all to often, especially in wedding photography how Australians follow whatever is trendy OS, rather than try and be the creator of a trend. My comment about ignoring it was that if we want to lead, we have to learn not to follow, and to do so would mean ignoring the OS trends.

I agree, following trends is not really ideal. But some of what is happening overseas is not a trend, but more a shift at the core of photography. That's what I like to keep an eye on.

I'll use HDR as an example, when it took off, many dismissed it, as an ugly trend, but its a technique that is definitely legitimate, camera makers are incorporating it into cameras and can be used for good or evil😄

[JM Tran]

In general i agree with the op.

JM your wedding = far behind comment intrigues me. In recent times a fair share of the worlds top 10/top 20/top 100 wedding photographers as rated by various photographic 'authorities' are from Australia. Do you have any more specifics as to where we are behind?

I tend to agree with a previous poster that many if not most photos posted here and other oz forums would not make it onto a curated site like 1x. Personally I feel that is because Europe is a way ahead in regards to acceptance of photography as an art, and also it must be said, their use of image manipulation.

Which brings me to my last point, in general, in my opinion, Australian photographers are a country mile behind their acceptance, skills and use of photoshop, etc. in fact, I struggle to think of many Australian photographers who are highly regarded in their use of, and skill in post processing, beyond really what are the basics.

Well the thing is, a few individuals who make it into these so called TOP 20 rankings dont necessarily represent the norm of Australian wedding photographers, so it can be misleading to say just because 4 or 5 etc as an example is in the 'top 20', does not automatically make Australia a world leader in wedding photography.

We, or the people I know or see, are sticking to the damn faux-vintage look which has become a big trend in wedding photography here and one would find it hard to see an individual photorgrapher's own style and separate them from the rest.

Compared to the creative stuff I constantly see from Asia from colleagues and strangers, and on other continents. We are currently emulating and not innovating.

[Mark L]

Well the thing is, a few individuals who make it into these so called TOP 20 rankings dont necessarily represent the norm of Australian wedding photographers, so it can be misleading to say just because 4 or 5 etc as an example is in the 'top 20', does not automatically make Australia a world leader in wedding photography.


It's not bad though, considering how many wedding photographers there are (in the world).
World leaders, who cares anyway. :)

[Lance B]

What particular photos are you talking about, Jim?

Being a birder, I look at the birding images from overseas and see many more great images, but they also have a more abundant bird population with many more diverse birds than we have here. Not only that, most of these birds are "exotic" to us/me and I find many of them more pleasing than most of our birds simply because they are "exotic". Technically, the overseas bird photos aren't any better, just that theyu may seem more pleasing because they are "exotic" and different to ours.

The same goes for landscape/architecture photos from overseas, where there are many more "exotic" locations compared to us and this has the effect of us thinking that they are better shots when in fact technically they no better then what I see from Australians as a whole, just that many of the photos are of exotic and exciting locations.

I remember having a young German guy stay with us for a few months on a 12 month working holiday going around Australia, he was the son of one of my suppliers. I asked him why he visited Australia for his 12 month holiday as he had Europe right on his doorstep with all that fantastic scenery, castles, churches, cathedrals and history in general. He replied that it is not that interesting to him because he lives with it every day, they basically hibernate for 6 months a year in winter and to him what is exciting is the wide open spaces, not crowded, beaches, sunshine all year round etc. He thinks my photos of Australia were exciting, much better than my Europe photos!

It's depends on your persepctive, so to speak!

[fillum]

I don't know what sites you are referring to Jim, but from what I've seen most of those overseas 'better quality photo' sites (for lack of a better expression) have member photographers from all around the world, which would include Australians. I had a quick look at 1x.com from Steve's link and spotted a couple of Aussies fairly quickly, one of whom is an AP member (although I think inactive).



fashion = behind
commercial = behind
wedding = far behind
If you have time it would be interesting to see some (links to) examples of what you see as the current leading edge.



Cheers.

[Lance B]

Compared to the creative stuff I constantly see from Asia from colleagues and strangers, and on other continents. We are currently emulating and not innovating.

Well, to be fair, there is not a lot that hasn't already been done with regards to wedding photography, so it is almost impossbile to "re-inent the wheel", as it were. I think you are doing many Australian wedding photogs a disservice saying that they are "emulating and not evolving", quite a broad brush statement. I think you will find there are many world class wedding photogs here that can be held up in high esteem. Trouble is, I would not be putting wedding photogs up as the bastion of great photography, it's production line photography mostly and done to a format to suit the client, not the photographers whim or artistc flare.

[JM Tran]

Well, to be fair, there is not a lot that hasn't already been done with regards to wedding photography, so it is almost impossbile to "re-inent the wheel", as it were. I think you are doing many Australian wedding photogs a disservice saying that they are "emulating and not evolving", quite a broad brush statement. I think you will find there are many world class wedding photogs here that can be held up in high esteem. Trouble is, I would not be putting wedding photogs up as the bastion of great photography, it's production line photography mostly and done to a format to suit the client, not the photographers whim or artistc flare.


Not sure how one would call most wedding photography production line photography, unless of course you are a budget wedding guy who constantly takes clients to the same locations, does the same style of editing and filters - that is production line, which is no difference to newspaper photographers who require the same style by the editors or sports photographers then?

If you look at my wedding work, or those of the 'world class wedding photogs' you mentioned Lance, you will see that no 2 weddings are the same, because they shouldnt be, if clients are paying top dollars then they expect their wedding to be individualized and not a production line, why should they when they are paying me or other good photographers the amount that someone receives for a years wage in SE Asia, in 1 day.

I do mine to my own whim and my artistic flare, same as any good one who puts in the effort to stand out from the rest.

Theres about 2500 ppl on my FB, not inc other networking links, and a high percentage of them are wedding photographers or have dabbled in it, and being able to see their work posted on a regular basis I have been 'privileged' enough to see the trends and styles that has been in and out in the last 5 years since I started working full time.

I can say factual things like - Lucisart ED filter is now being used quite regularly and aggressively for wedding photography in last 12 months, as more ppl know about it - when back then it was more for commercial/editorial photography. Its great to be able to see trends and changes, and those that are able to use it to their advantage will always progress further. I dont copy or follow editing styles, as I have my own and past, current and future clients are able to know my style from the rest.

Some of the advancements in wedding photography lies not in the way it is shot or processed, but the way business is conducted, theres a lot more to just selling prints after the wedding, technology evolution has given us the ability to increase our work effiency and effectiveness and deliver a much better end product than 10 or 20 or 30 years ago. This can be said for photography as a whole too in many cases.

[ricktas]

I can say factual things like - Lucisart ED filter is now being used quite regularly and aggressively for wedding photography in last 12 months, as more ppl know about it - when back then it was more for commercial/editorial photography. Its great to be able to see trends and changes, and those that are able to use it to their advantage will always progress further. I dont copy or follow editing styles, as I have my own and past, current and future clients are able to know my style from the rest.



That is where I see it. Photographers are relying in pre-existing processing methods to create a 'look', particularly in the wedding sector. You state 'Its great to be able to see trends and changes, and those that are able to use it to their advantage will always progress further', which is what I have been conveying, we follow the trends, not set them, and therein lies the reason that most Australian photographers are not seen as being in the best of the best. We are not developing 'breakthrough' ideas, rather we are following along with what Europe, Asia and the US are doing. I agree that you have your own style JM, but I can see the influences of the trends from overseas in your work. Yes you probably need to do that as part of your business, as business is about getting work and creating an income. You need to go where the work is, both creatively and financially.

But I see Jim's original question being about why we (Aussies) are not creating (or at least trying to) the trends, rather than following them.

[JM Tran]

That is where I see it. Photographers are relying in pre-existing processing methods to create a 'look', particularly in the wedding sector. You state 'Its great to be able to see trends and changes, and those that are able to use it to their advantage will always progress further', which is what I have been conveying, we follow the trends, not set them, and therein lies the reason that most Australian photographers are not seen as being in the best of the best. We are not developing 'breakthrough' ideas, rather we are following along with what Europe, Asia and the US are doing. I agree that you have your own style JM, but I can see the influences of the trends from overseas in your work. Yes you probably need to do that as part of your business, as business is about getting work and creating an income. You need to go where the work is, both creatively and financially.

But I see Jim's original question being about why we (Aussies) are not creating (or at least trying to) the trends, rather than following them.

Yup I agree with you, hence my reasons about Australians/Australia not being as innovative as those overseas. Singapore and HK is close to us yet from what Ive seen from colleagues and whatnot, push the boundary more often - as there is more competition, and competition is healthy sometimes for that very reason.

[arthurking83]

......

It's depends on your persepctive, so to speak!

I find myself in the strange situation of having to agree with Lance here.

By what exact standard do we regard non Aussie photos as not being up to current world standards.

Photography is more than just about one or two genres.

if over processed over saturated images are the standard baseline for what constitutes great images .. then why even both to take the camera out to capture them at all.

Why not just generate them in their entirety within photoshop! 99.9% of the interest, artistry and content of those types of images is not generated by the photography equipment.
The use of a camera for those types of images appears to be redundant.


Of course this is only a matter of perspective.

I don't think it has anything to do with the geographics of the artists.

[Bear Dale]

I've been flat chat since I posted this thread, I've been able to have a glance at it now and again on my iPhone whilst out.

I've really enjoyed reading everyone's viewpoints on this topic and there has been some great cerebral discussion proffered by some knowledgeable folks.

[Lance B]

Not sure how one would call most wedding photography production line photography, unless of course you are a budget wedding guy who constantly takes clients to the same locations, does the same style of editing and filters - that is production line, which is no difference to newspaper photographers who require the same style by the editors or sports photographers then?

If you look at my wedding work, or those of the 'world class wedding photogs' you mentioned Lance, you will see that no 2 weddings are the same, because they shouldnt be, if clients are paying top dollars then they expect their wedding to be individualized and not a production line, why should they when they are paying me or other good photographers the amount that someone receives for a years wage in SE Asia, in 1 day. ]

Changing locations but still doing the same basic themes at those locations is not what I call being innovative. Like I said, there is just so many different things you can do to get the wedding shots and even with the so called best of the overseas wedding photogs, it seems to be the same stuff, just possibly different "exotic" locations. That doesn't take much imagination, just money.


I do mine to my own whim and my artistic flare, same as any good one who puts in the effort to stand out from the rest.

Theres about 2500 ppl on my FB, not inc other networking links, and a high percentage of them are wedding photographers or have dabbled in it, and being able to see their work posted on a regular basis I have been 'privileged' enough to see the trends and styles that has been in and out in the last 5 years since I started working full time.

I can say factual things like - Lucisart ED filter is now being used quite regularly and aggressively for wedding photography in last 12 months, as more ppl know about it - when back then it was more for commercial/editorial photography. Its great to be able to see trends and changes, and those that are able to use it to their advantage will always progress further. I dont copy or follow editing styles, as I have my own and past, current and future clients are able to know my style from the rest.

I would still say that even though you think you have a different style that it has more than likely been done before, just that you may not have seen it. Don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean that your wedding photography isn't good, it could be fantastic, just that I seriously doubt that it can always be innovative as there are so many wedding photogs around that there really isn't anything new in this world, even like the "Lucisart ED filter" you allude to, now that it is out there, it's not new any more and everybody is now getting on that badnwagon. Like you, I have looked at many wedding photographs from all over the world and all I see is the same themes but the locations are different in an effort to be "different".


Some of the advancements in wedding photography lies not in the way it is shot or processed, but the way business is conducted, theres a lot more to just selling prints after the wedding, technology evolution has given us the ability to increase our work effiency and effectiveness and deliver a much better end product than 10 or 20 or 30 years ago. This can be said for photography as a whole too in many cases.

But that doesn't mean it is always being done better overseas. This certainly smells of the Australian cringe factor that has pervaded our society in the past and which I thought had largely disappeared. Apparently it has not in the wedding photography world. What might be the case is that being overseas it gets more recognition due to the fact it is a much larger market and therefore gets more "airplay" if you like.

- - - Updated - - -


I find myself in the strange situation of having to agree with Lance here.

By what exact standard do we regard non Aussie photos as not being up to current world standards.



Nice to see we agree on something, Arthur! :)

The problem is that Australia is always going to behind the eight ball, so to speak, as it is not a "powerhouse" of change due to the fact it is a small market and doesn't have the sway with the rest of the world. Example: Let's say I took the same image as Henri Cartier Bresson's of the "man jumping over a puddle" or to be correct "Derriere la Gare Saint-Lazare" and which was voted the photo of the century, but he had never taken it. Do you think I would get the same recognition? Not on your nelly!

[old dog]

quote from Rick...................`I suppose the other question that needs to be asked, if we are way behind the rest of the world, do we care?

As long as we, our clients, the people that view our photos, look a them, critique them, find what we are doing as good, then who cares if the rest of the world thinks it is better, more advanced than Australian photographers.


I could not agree more with this comment. I`m quite happy living in my little circle of very talented friends here on this site. The biggest wish I have is to meet as many of you as possible as the years go by, not to just glean more skills from you but to enhance the overall enjoyment of life. Cheers from the Emerald isle (on hols in UK and Ireland ATM).

[MissionMan]

It's a difficult question and it's one I find challenging to answer.

I, on the one hand am pretty damn great and an amazing photographer, some would argue amongst the world greats, but is my greatness enough to counter the mediocre photography range of the vast majority of other australian photographers? I think not.

:D

[arthurking83]

.......

I, on the one hand am pretty damn great and an amazing photographer, some would argue amongst the world greats, but is my greatness enough to counter the mediocre photography range of the vast majority of other australian photographers? I think not.

:D

I don't think that the level of your greatness actually has any impact on tipping the balance of world photography domination back in our favour there MM.

I think what will counter the effect of our mediocrity is the volume of your great works!

Produce more of it and you will then have the power to tip the scales back into our favour ..... at which point we can safely say "All your base are belong to us"

:D

[Steve Axford]

What particular photos are you talking about, Jim?

Being a birder, I look at the birding images from overseas and see many more great images, but they also have a more abundant bird population with many more diverse birds than we have here. Not only that, most of these birds are "exotic" to us/me and I find many of them more pleasing than most of our birds simply because they are "exotic". Technically, the overseas bird photos aren't any better, just that theyu may seem more pleasing because they are "exotic" and different to ours.

The same goes for landscape/architecture photos from overseas, where there are many more "exotic" locations compared to us and this has the effect of us thinking that they are better shots when in fact technically they no better then what I see from Australians as a whole, just that many of the photos are of exotic and exciting locations.

I remember having a young German guy stay with us for a few months on a 12 month working holiday going around Australia, he was the son of one of my suppliers. I asked him why he visited Australia for his 12 month holiday as he had Europe right on his doorstep with all that fantastic scenery, castles, churches, cathedrals and history in general. He replied that it is not that interesting to him because he lives with it every day, they basically hibernate for 6 months a year in winter and to him what is exciting is the wide open spaces, not crowded, beaches, sunshine all year round etc. He thinks my photos of Australia were exciting, much better than my Europe photos!

It's depends on your persepctive, so to speak!

It's strange but I totally disagree with this. I think Australian flora and fauna is as good as it gets. And that's not to say that I don't travel because I do, a lot. I have just learnt to love the native Australian stuff. We have probably the most diverse collection of birds in the world and what's more, you can see them all over the place. Most parts of the world you see few birds and those you do see are Sparrows and Pigeons. We see Rainbow Lorikeets and Kookaburras. We really are very lucky here. We just need to look around.

[Lance B]

It's strange but I totally disagree with this. I think Australian flora and fauna is as good as it gets. And that's not to say that I don't travel because I do, a lot. I have just learnt to love the native Australian stuff. We have probably the most diverse collection of birds in the world and what's more, you can see them all over the place. Most parts of the world you see few birds and those you do see are Sparrows and Pigeons. We see Rainbow Lorikeets and Kookaburras. We really are very lucky here. We just need to look around.

Don't get me wrong, I do look around and I shoot plenty of birds and see lots of this wonderful country (have you seen my birds and animal galleries?). However, if you look at the bird forums from overseas, I think you will find that they have quite a bit more variety than most of the easily accessable places in Australia. Also, there are aspects of Australia that I am not overly fussed on, like the eucalypt forests here are not what I would call as nice as many of the forests in Europe and North America. That's juts a personal opinion. But, hey, I wouldn't live anywhere else! :)

The point I am making is that people get bored with the things they see and live with every day and this is why so many of us love to travel and why so many of us love photos from other places that seem "exotic" and exciting. We also like to see different animals, look at why so many want to go to Africa and see their exotic animals and why many hold them up in high esteem, yet we have some of the most unique here in Australia.

Europe to me is very interesting as it has all that history that we don't have, all those castles, churches and cathedrals etc are amazing to me. Stand on the steps of Notre Dame that was built 1,000 years ago and think of all the famous people that have crossed its threshold. It may not interest you, but it certainly makes it interesting to me. Howver, I do not think I would want to live in Europe permanently, maybe for an extended stay, but never permanently.

Like I said, the young German fellow that stayed with us was totally intigued with Australia and thought it was exotic here. It just depends where you are standing and therefore where you live.

As I said, I wouldn't live anywhere elses, even with the many drawbacks this country has.

[Steve Axford]

Yep, I have seen your bird photos, Lance. That's one of the reasons I was surprised that you said what you did. I think Oz bird photos are as good as any and yours are well up there.. Can't say I agree about the forests here compared to Europe. Almost all the native forests in Europe are gone and there are still a few left here, though they do keep trying to cut those down. I love the rainforests the best, but the wet sclerophyll forests are almost as good. Bit messy by European standards, but maybe the original forests (Little Red Riding Hood type forests) were also a bit messy. Everything is nicely manicured now, but that is due to human intervention. I lived in England for about 6 years and it was great, lots of history, but we have history too, we just pretend it only started with Captain Cook. Our limits are self imposed.
Anyway, back to the subject. I think we are a bit of a backwater when it comes to professional photography, but that is inevitable as there are few paying customers here. Given the numbers, I think we manage pretty well overall. As for the total world of photography, pro and amateur, I think we stand up pretty well really. Of course there will be many more great photographers from the rest of the world, but then we only have about 0.4% of the worlds population. I suspect we have more than 0.4% of the best photographers, though I couldn't name them.

[Bear Dale]

It’s been great reading all the responses.

One thing that does interest me is that it’s been said a few times here that photography is a lot of duplicating other peoples work now, that there really isn’t anything new and it’s all been done before.

Could that be a bit of a catchcry to advocate that it’s easier in the run of the mill and well trodden paths of previous and current photographers and it’s just more comfortable and easier than trying to be a true visionary and develop something that is so radical that it’s genuinely new?

Wedding photography has come up a bit in this thread and it’s hard to not (and no offence intended to the wedding photographers) think of wedding photos as clichéd. There might be different background scenery and some different processing etc…..but honestly how many times can a bride and groom and a wedding party be photographed in a truly uniquely manner and for a photographer to honestly own a style that’s just their own?

I don’t want to list the websites that I have been visiting as anyone that’s into photography most likely has them bookmarked already and posting up URL’s to other sites in threads just drives members from AusPh to those sites. The odd link’s ok to post, but not a whole heap of them.

Another thing that I do see on the more internationally populated forums is that famous photographers such as Weston, Adams, Bresson, DeCarava etc etc are quoted and referred to sometimes nauseatingly so. Maybe Australians don’t because of our more egalitarianism outlook? Some people are so intent on emulating these people, that I don’t see a lot of innovation there.

One ‘famous’ Aussie that has made it in photography Peter Lik is dissected to pieces by not only the international photography arena….but also by the domestic one as well at times. He’s considered to be nothing more than a joke by many, but he’s one of the wealthiest living photographers on the planet.

Maybe the planet has become so small through the manner that we see it now with the overabundance of photographic images that we’re all a little visually exhausted by it all and it takes a real photo for us to feel jazzed?

One other question I will leave you with. Do you think in Australia we have the street photography opportunities that exist in Europe or cities like NY or gritty cities like Chicago?

I’m a little too self-conscious to do street photography, but it’s a genre that I really enjoy looking at because I think a lot of good street photography tells such a story to the viewer. So being a little into viewing it and seeing shots from around the world, this is one area that I feel that we (as in Australian photographers) really don’t shine. Is it because there just isn’t the same opportunities that exist in other parts of the world? We’re all a little bit more demurer when it comes to street photography? Or I just haven’t seen good Aussie street photography and it does exist?

[JM Tran]

Wedding photography has come up a bit in this thread and it’s hard to not (and no offence intended to the wedding photographers) think of wedding photos as clichéd. There might be different background scenery and some different processing etc…..but honestly how many times can a bride and groom and a wedding party be photographed in a truly uniquely manner and for a photographer to honestly own a style that’s just their own?

same for landscape photography really, if not more so.

[MissionMan]

[QUOTE]Wedding photography has come up a bit in this thread and it’s hard to not (and no offence intended to the wedding photographers) think of wedding photos as clichéd. There might be different background scenery and some different processing etc…..but honestly how many times can a bride and groom and a wedding party be photographed in a truly uniquely manner and for a photographer to honestly own a style that’s just their own?/QUOTE]

same for landscape photography really, if not more so.

Brenizer technique is an example of wedding photographer innovation. Yes, it's not possible for everyone to do this, but it shows how one person can create a unique technique to make a name for themselves and differentiate themselves from the rest.

The problem with photography is there aren't that many unique options, or at least not to the degree that videographers have.

[Bear Dale]

[QUOTE=JM Tran;1138553]

Brenizer technique is an example of wedding photographer innovation.

That's spread like a grass fire in January.

[MissionMan]

[QUOTE=MissionMan;1138554]

That's spread like a grass fire in January.

Yup, but how many photographers out there are focussing on doing the same. I.e. creating a unique method of taking photos rather than just taking good photos. The problem with the Brenizer technique is that it's an emulation of someone else's idea and the only person who really gets recognition is Ryan Brenizer. By using the technique, you're not unique. Yes, you create good photos and keep your customers happy but that's about as much as you'll ever achieve.

To really be innovative, you have to be prepared to fail and lose it all and I think there are very few photographers who are prepared to risk it all. It's a little like creating a new business vs working for an existing business. If you start your own business, you risk losing everything but the reward can be higher.

How many photographers are prepared to go out there are try something really unique rather than just emulating a photo idea they saw online.

[welly]

I've met a number of amazing Australian fine art photographers who in my opinion are up there with the best. Google Richard White, David Tatnall (his colour work isn't his best stuff..), Maris Rusis. Also, Matthew Kovacs, Chris Tuffin, and Bill Henson obviously. There's an obvious bias in that list of photographers as I'm primarily a large format film photographer but the work by those guys is truly outstanding.

[Lance B]

Yep, I have seen your bird photos, Lance. That's one of the reasons I was surprised that you said what you did. I think Oz bird photos are as good as any and yours are well up there..

Thank you very much for your nice comments, Steve. Very much appreciated!


Can't say I agree about the forests here compared to Europe. Almost all the native forests in Europe are gone and there are still a few left here, though they do keep trying to cut those down. I love the rainforests the best, but the wet sclerophyll forests are almost as good. Bit messy by European standards, but maybe the original forests (Little Red Riding Hood type forests) were also a bit messy. Everything is nicely manicured now, but that is due to human intervention. I lived in England for about 6 years and it was great, lots of history, but we have history too, we just pretend it only started with Captain Cook. Our limits are self imposed.
Anyway, back to the subject. I think we are a bit of a backwater when it comes to professional photography, but that is inevitable as there are few paying customers here. Given the numbers, I think we manage pretty well overall. As for the total world of photography, pro and amateur, I think we stand up pretty well really. Of course there will be many more great photographers from the rest of the world, but then we only have about 0.4% of the worlds population. I suspect we have more than 0.4% of the best photographers, though I couldn't name them.

[Speedway]

Just to put an often used motor sport quote on this "You can't win by following the leader" and as Rick said 250 million v 25 million gives the US 10 times the photos to choose from, when you look at it that way maybe were not that far behind, if at all. Add to that we are used to seeing images from home which lessens the impact of these and makes the unusual from OS even more unique adding to the impact.
Cheers
Keith.

[Bear Dale]

same for landscape photography really, if not more so.

Are we drowning in images? Are there any truly unexplored territory left undiscovered at least with the technology of today?

[JM Tran]

Are we drowning in images? Are there any truly unexplored territory left undiscovered at least with the technology of today?


pretty much:) I cant really see any new frontiers with photography, maybe in videography.

[ving]

we are not any better or any worse...

[ameerat42]

we are not any better or any worse...

...nor Richard, nor Porter...

[ricktas]

Twisted.

Are the rest of the world really that much better that they can yell from the mountains 'Aussie photographers suck'?

So many are using the 'canned' processing options these days, with Nik Software, Lucas Art, Imagenomic, Topaz to name a few. Everyone seems to be jumping on the plugins that exist, and using them (or over using them) to create a style, or effect for themselves. However they are all basically copying each other.

Originality worldwide has been replaced by plugins and opacity adjustment layers, not just in Australia.

[zollo]

i'm not sure anyone is shouting at aussies from high places, as such.
but plugins can be used creatively or straight out the can, devil's in the details.

[Bear Dale]

After seeing a lot of before and after PP'ing threads on o'seas forums, it makes me wonder if 'our' PP'ing skills are as skilled as well.

[Mark L]

After seeing a lot of before and after PP'ing threads on o'seas forums, it makes me wonder if 'our' PP'ing skills are as skilled as well.

That could have been a new thread.:)
Think it's been mentioned, but it could be a numbers game. We are only a small % of everywhere else.
Maybe Oz people don't post their best work on o'seas forums (or any forums)??
And does it matter if we're not good photogs as long as we're happy with some of the photos we take?? (another new thread missed!)

[Bear Dale]

Mark, I'm not sure if it's because our population is smaller. We do ok in sport and we did take the America's Cup off those yanks once ;)

And you're right, it doesn't matter. As long as we enjoy doing what we do and we do!

It's just interesting to discuss if other people feel the same as I do.

[sunny6teen]

I spent a year in the States a couple of years ago and I can't say that there's much difference.
On the commercial scene, the U.S. does seem to be luring the best art directors...we're falling behind in that regard I think.