Duck Season

[Bear Dale]

Duck Season supporter or opposer?

[Gonk0]

I support duck season, as I have lived in the country most of my life and have grown up shooting ducks, rabbits etc.

[jim]

Don't know too much about duck hunting in Aust.
In NZ it would be difficult to oppose (on environmental grounds at least) if hunters confined themselves to shooting Mallards. Instead they seem happy to shoot anything out of the sky, including the critically endangered but unprotected Grey duck, plus other endangered natives that are protected.
TBH, while responsible hunters do exist, I doubt that the majority of Aussie hunters are any more discriminating than their NZ counterparts.

[extraball]

I get no benefit from people shooting ducks, either does 99% of the rest of the country.

[ricktas]

I get no benefit from people shooting ducks, either does 99% of the rest of the country.

Ummm, fees for duck licences etc, go back into maintaining waterways, etc. Duck hunters spend money, so just like you and I they contribute to the Australian Economy, and that helps all of us.

[extraball]

Ummm, fees for duck licences etc, go back into maintaining waterways, etc. Duck hunters spend money, so just like you and I they contribute to the Australian Economy, and that helps all of us.

fees for hunting licenses prob just pay the wages for public servants administering them. Poll should've been Duck season, or Wabbit season?
:)

[bobt]

Personally, I don't feel that deliberately killing any creature for fun is such a good concept. If you like shooting guns, then shoot targets. I have guns, and I enjoy shooting; however there's a difference between shooting and killing. I know a lot of shooters will justify it by saying they're hunting for food, but the bottom line is generally that it's the thrill of killing a duck that turns them on. Pretty sad really.

[macmich]

duck hunters could say that photographers get turned on by taking photos, carpenters turned on by hanging a door, its a sport that serves a purpose it feeds people and culls the population of duck especially over rice paddys
cheers macca

[ricktas]

Personally, I don't feel that deliberately killing any creature for fun is such a good concept. If you like shooting guns, then shoot targets. I have guns, and I enjoy shooting; however there's a difference between shooting and killing. I know a lot of shooters will justify it by saying they're hunting for food, but the bottom line is generally that it's the thrill of killing a duck that turns them on. Pretty sad really.

Would you consider the same for fisherman, or those that work in abattoirs, Kangaroo shooters, rabbit shooters or even farmers who slaughter their own stock? Most duck shooters I know enjoy duck (It is a great meat). I am not sure where this perception that duck hunters are any different to anyone else who slaughters a meat animal for food, comes from. If you eat meat or fish, you have to accept that to do so, someone, somewhere had to kill it.

[jim]

I think Bob may be referring to the fact that hunters (and fishermen for that matter) kill for fun rather than from necessity.

Generally agree your point though.

[ricktas]

I think Bob may be referring to the fact that hunters (and fishermen for that matter) kill for fun rather than from necessity.



But is that true? I don't think any of them kill for FUN. Most eat their catch. Yeah you hear media reports when people shoot things and just leave them, but I do not believe the vast majority of hunters and fisherman considering killing fun.

[jim]

I think if it wasn't fun nobody would bother.

[bobt]

The motivation is my primary objection. Carpenters, photographers etc etc don't take a life while pursuing their activities. Clearly those of us who eat meat have to accept the humane killing of creatures, but the underlying motivation is survival or provision of food. Lions hunt to survive - people hunt for the thrill of it. Duck shooters would not want to stop killing if someone donated food to them as an alternative - their primary motivation is to kill - the thrill of the chase. Not too thrilling from a duck's perspective. Find me a duck hunter who days it's all about food and I'll show you someone who is either in denial or simply lying.

When killing is a source of enjoyment, and that is the primary motivation, it says a lot about the hunter - all of it bad.

[ricktas]

The motivation is my primary objection. Carpenters, photographers etc etc don't take a life while pursuing their activities. Clearly those of us who eat meat have to accept the humane killing of creatures, but the underlying motivation is survival or provision of food. Lions hunt to survive - people hunt for the thrill of it. Duck shooters would not want to stop killing if someone donated food to them as an alternative - their primary motivation is to kill - the thrill of the chase. Not too thrilling from a duck's perspective. Find me a duck hunter who days it's all about food and I'll show you someone who is either in denial or simply lying.

When killing is a source of enjoyment, and that is the primary motivation, it says a lot about the hunter - all of it bad.

But that is stereotyping every hunter. Like saying every photographer is a Paparazzi. I disagree with your views on this matter 100%!

[outstar79]

Well, it's illegal in our state so....... Though I agree with the hunting of feral animals that pose a threat to the fauna and flora, on my property we get quite a few feral pigs, kangaroos and plenty of rabbits that I find in my cross-hairs, though the rabbits occasionally have myxomatosis or calicivirus, most, if not all the animals I shoot can be used for human/pet consumption (other than the feral pigs as they are full of worms and other nasties.

[bobt]

But that is stereotyping every hunter. Like saying every photographer is a Paparazzi. I disagree with your views on this matter 100%!

Oh well ...... I guess we all have different views. However, if you offered each hunter a coupon to get their ducks from a commercial duck farm, they'd laugh in your face. The amount they spend on their guns and gear would buy them enough ducks to satisfy their alleged "hunger". Nope .... it's the kill they're after - not the food. Saying that the majority of duck hunters are simply trying to feed their families is like saying Japanese whalers are conducting scientific research!! :lol:

[ricktas]

Oh well ...... I guess we all have different views. However, if you offered each hunter a coupon to get their ducks from a commercial duck farm, they'd laugh in your face. The amount they spend on their guns and gear would buy them enough ducks to satisfy their alleged "hunger". Nope .... it's the kill they're after - not the food. Saying that the majority of duck hunters are simply trying to feed their families is like saying Japanese whalers are conducting scientific research!! :lol:

perhaps I could offer you a coupon for free photos from Getty? Would that stop you taking photographs? :rolleyes:

And wild game duck has a completely different taste to commercial domestic duck.

[Gonk0]

Personally, I don't feel that deliberately killing any creature for fun is such a good concept. If you like shooting guns, then shoot targets. I have guns, and I enjoy shooting;

No offence here at all bobt have you ever seen what Ducks, pigs rabbits and carp do to our land at all?
Yes you might enjoy shooting targets,as do I, but out in the country, Ducks are a pest and destroy crops, and when i do get a chance to go duck shooting I do enjoy it, and as soon as I get my bag I'm off home.


I think Bob may be referring to the fact that hunters (and fishermen for that matter) kill for fun rather than from necessity.
.

When i shoot, I shoot to get a feed, not necessity.


I think if it wasn't fun nobody would bother.

I do enjoy getting out hunting when i get the chance, just like taking photos.


Oh well ...... I guess we all have different views. However, if you offered each hunter a coupon to get their ducks from a commercial duck farm, they'd laugh in your face. The amount they spend on their guns and gear would buy them enough ducks to satisfy their alleged "hunger". Nope .... it's the kill they're after - not the food. Saying that the majority of duck hunters are simply trying to feed their families is like saying Japanese whalers are conducting scientific research!! :lol:

Just like Rick has already said, game ducks taste very different to ducks form a farm, but in saying that I do enjoy to eat them too.


My main point here is that there will always be people that enjoy shooting an hunting, and do the right thing, but you will always have the people that do the wrong thing, but
to say that all hunters are the same is TOTALLY WRONG.

And one last thing, is most people that really object have never been out shooting in there life, and also don't see the damage that is done by the animals that everyone wants to protect,
people need to get out to the country and have a look at what actually happens out here in the real world.

I mean no offense to anyone here regarding my post, if i have offended anyone in any way shape or form, I'm sorry.

[ricktas]

what about Deer? Should we have a deer season? Venison is good eating too!

[Gonk0]

what about Deer? Should we have a deer season? Venison is good eating too!

Very true Venison is very good eating, but I have never had the chance to go hunting for one.

[bobt]

perhaps I could offer you a coupon for free photos from Getty? Would that stop you taking photographs? :rolleyes:


I think that you just proved my point quite nicely. In both cases it's the shooting that is the focus - not the end result. Photographers and duck hunters both like the shooting, except photographers don't kill.

[ricktas]

I think that you just proved my point quite nicely. In both cases it's the shooting that is the focus - not the end result. Photographers and duck hunters both like the shooting, except photographers don't kill.

But you did not answer my question: If I offered you a Getty coupon, would YOU stop taking photographs?

[Bear Dale]

No offence here at all bobt have you ever seen what Ducks, pigs rabbits and carp do to our land at all?


(and)

Just like Rick has already said, game ducks taste very different to ducks form a farm, but in saying that I do enjoy to eat them too.




It's a big country, I think a lot of people are unaware of just how big Australia is.

When I grew up (and I'm only 50) every hardware store in nearly every country town sold firearms and ammunition. Grace Brothers would measure you up for a shotgun, all Australian KMart stores sold firearms and ammo in their sports sections, seriously most country toy and sports shops stocked firearms!

I used to take a Lee Enfield .303 rifle home with me after cadets on a Friday afternoon when we were going on a camp the next morning to Singleton on an Eastern Suburbs (Sydney) bus and no one gave me a second glance.

I think whats happening is that we have so many people now living in cities that have no contact whatsoever with firearms besides reading in newspapers about how bad and dangerous they are.

Yet the fox, cat, pig, duck and other feral populations are ever increasing.

You know just one fox getting a 55gr pill in head at high speed saves the lives of countless thousands (yes thats thousands) of native wildlife from being eaten.

The duck population has exploded, why not shoot them for the table? Or would it be more humane to put out 20 tonnes of poison grain and let them writh in agony whilst they were slowly poisoned and then let the goanna's, snakes, birds of prey etc die from eating poisoned ducks?

[bobt]

No offence here at all bobt have you ever seen what Ducks, pigs rabbits and carp do to our land at all?

No offense at all, we all have views and should be able to express them. I do agree wholeheartedly that there are all sorts of situations where culling is needed to protect our land. I also accept that some hunters do so for reasons other than what is oddly described as "sport". However, those (and you) are not the focus of my argument. My primary objection is that many (not all) hunters are simply seeing this as a sport. There are all sorts of magazines describing it as a sport. No matter how they might subsequently justify it, a large proportion of duck hunters see themselves as sportsmen engaging in a sport. Now Olympians are engaging in a sport when they compete in shooting competitions - THAT is sport. However, going out with the deliberate intention to kill creatures simply for the thrill of it just isn't a sport - and neither is it sporting to shoot a creature which has no defenses just because you can.

Those who cull animals do so as part of their daily lives, and are a different story altogether. They don't hide behind an alleged "sport" or kill far more ducks than they can reasonably eat. So called sporting shooters kill for pleasure - end of.

I understand that you are not one of those.

- - - Updated - - -


But you did not answer my question: If I offered you a Getty coupon, would YOU stop taking photographs?

Well I think I did answer the question. I wouldn't stop taking photos just because you gave me one because it's not just the photo (read "duck") that's important to me - it's the thrill of using my equipment, my skills etc to capture my subject (read "prey").

The hunter is the same - if I offered him a pile of duck carcasses he would still want to use his skills, stalk his prey and then kill it because that's where the thrill is. The two situations are parallel. In both cases, if you take away the adrenalin rush you defeat the whole purpose of the exercise. However, when I shoot I don't kill my subject, I leave it intact for another photographer to enjoy. I also leave the subject free to enjoy its own life. My "sport" harms no-one.

[ricktas]

I agree with you on that Bob. I do not see hunting as a 'sport'. I often wonder why the hunting organisations even call themselves that. I personally do not use the term sport shooter, I refer to call it hunting. I have not been duck hunting for a few years, but still like to get an occasional Roo or Rabbit. I do not sit at home and think 'oh I should go out and kill a few animals', my thinking is 'I would not mind a feed or two of roo patties/roast rabbit'. As do the shooters I know. We are hunters, not sports people!

Yes, I could go to the supermarket and buy some, but still, someone, somewhere had to slaughter it, for it to be in the supermarket in the first place.

[Kym]

Duck is very tasty!! Shooter eat what they kill. All good!!

[zeroharm]

Some give the rest a VERY bad name!! Waking up at 5am to the sounds of hunters shooting anything they can see ON MY DAM!!! leaves me with a bad taste.. Apparently if they are on the road it is not trespassing (so they told me) Bit hard when you can't let your pet ducks/geese etc out for a paddle.. Each to their own, just do it properly..

[I @ M]

Some give the rest a VERY bad name!! Waking up at 5am to the sounds of hunters shooting anything they can see ON MY DAM!!! leaves me with a bad taste.. Apparently if they are on the road it is not trespassing (so they told me) Bit hard when you can't let your pet ducks/geese etc out for a paddle.. Each to their own, just do it properly..

Simple, go to the local police with their vehicle registration number and ask if the law in NSW allows them to shoot over your land without your permission.

It is definitely the case in Vic that you cannot shoot on or over private property without the owners permission.

Idiots like that need a severe wake up call.

[bobt]

someone, somewhere had to slaughter it, for it to be in the supermarket in the first place.

This where our society as a whole is hypocritical. We love to chuck a lamb chop on the barbie, but few of us would take a photo of a cute little lamb and then slit its throat! Dead spiders and cockroaches are different from cuddly and cute animals but we eat cute animals every day. Generally we only see things in life that we choose to see. I'm just as guilty of that as the next person.

[zeroharm]

Simple, go to the local police with their vehicle registration number and ask if the law in NSW allows them to shoot over your land without your permission.

It is definitely the case in Vic that you cannot shoot on or over private property without the owners permission.

Idiots like that need a severe wake up call.

This was in Victoria.. Police were called, nothing happened, apparently it was all a mistake!!(didn't realise it was private property.. Fence did not give any clues!!) Hence the statement "some give the rest a bad name" I don't care what anyone else does, just as long as they do it properly...

[Bear Dale]

This where our society as a whole is hypocritical. We love to chuck a lamb chop on the barbie, but few of us would take a photo of a cute little lamb and then slit its throat! Dead spiders and cockroaches are different from cuddly and cute animals but we eat cute animals every day. Generally we only see things in life that we choose to see. I'm just as guilty of that as the next person.

I've read that referred to as the 'Bambi Syndrome'.

[ricktas]

This where our society as a whole is hypocritical. We love to chuck a lamb chop on the barbie, but few of us would take a photo of a cute little lamb and then slit its throat! Dead spiders and cockroaches are different from cuddly and cute animals but we eat cute animals every day. Generally we only see things in life that we choose to see. I'm just as guilty of that as the next person.

And that is where we differ. I grew up on a farm so am quite capable of slaughtering that cow,pig,sheep, chicken, and skinning or plucking it removing any parts we deem not suitable for consumption. Do I get 'enjoyment' out of doing so, not really, but as you say, we love a lamb chop on the barbie, and someone has to do it.

To me there is no difference between slaughtering a chook from the backyard to a wild duck. Both are done so for humans to eat. It is only our own 'sensibilities' that seem to create some difference as to which is appropriate and which isn't. Some people's 'sensibilities' are in a different place to others, but who is right? I have eaten horse steak (not in Australia), but the horses were bred specifically for eating, however in Australia I reckon most people would find horse on the menu as somehow 'bad'.

[Duane Pipe]

I have never eaten wild Duck but I would love too, I have shot them with my camera but never a gun! and thats only because I dont own one.:)
I gave my young ferret its first kill on a rabbit kitten today:eek: It was her first time out and I think that she deserved the feed, So now she knows what its all about she should hunt for me a lot better than she did today:th3: I am doing something with my 9 year old that I did as kid...... Its better walking through undulating farmland Than having him sit on his arse all day in front of the pc Gaming. Our family loves a feed of rabbit.
My Dad was paying $19.00 for Supermarket Rabbits that are tasteless farmed Crap.. Lets go Hunting:th3:

[I @ M]

This was in Victoria.. Police were called, nothing happened, apparently it was all a mistake!!(didn't realise it was private property.. Fence did not give any clues!!) Hence the statement "some give the rest a bad name" I don't care what anyone else does, just as long as they do it properly...

Sorry zero, I assumed that you were in NSW by your location.
Regardless, your Vic police district will have a district / regional firearms officer ( they have changed the name again recently :confused013 ) and I am sure he /she would be very keen to hear why there wasn't something done about a totally flagrant breach of the law ( mistake, my foot!!! ) because they really do like to pull miscreants into line.

Our local RFO /DFO gleefully tells about the fines that he managed to hand out to the licensed shooter who was sitting in the middle of a swamp on duck opening morning without a current duck ID certificate and claimed that he was hunting bunnies. :D

[zeroharm]

Sorry zero, I assumed that you were in NSW by your location.
Regardless, your Vic police district will have a district / regional firearms officer ( they have changed the name again recently :confused013 ) and I am sure he /she would be very keen to hear why there wasn't something done about a totally flagrant breach of the law ( mistake, my foot!!! ) because they really do like to pull miscreants into line.

Our local RFO /DFO gleefully tells about the fines that he managed to hand out to the licensed shooter who was sitting in the middle of a swamp on duck opening morning without a current duck ID certificate and claimed that he was hunting bunnies. :D
All good..I am not opposed to hunting, I am opposed to cruelty and disregard.. The law have never helped when it came to unlawful behaviour on my land ( 600 snares found scattered around my property, called the police when the perps came to reclaim, only to be told they were "mistaken" once again) any one of those snares could of killed my dog.. I allow hunting for feral animals on my land as long as you knock on my door and ask!! I love ferrets, but do not allow any injury of native animals.. I have also seen the destruction foxes, rabbits, pigs have on the land ...

I work in NSW, I have a large property in central Vic :) my work makes me travel..

PS.. I have never tried duck but would rather eat one that has lived a free life.. Just my opinion..

[Steve Axford]

I'm generally on the side of zero and Bob. I think that the responsible shooters probably outnumber the irresponsible, but it doesn't take many idiots to cause a lot of damage, particularly when those idiots have guns. I had some idiot friends who liked to go out pig shooting. One time they got lost for 3 days. Bloody lucky to survive. The relied on a GPS that soon ran out of battery - duh! The rarely got a pig but I'll bet they shot at something along the way.
The whole issue is a bit similar to allowing people to drive on beaches. It's fine when not many do it and those that do probably need to as it's the only way to get to some places. But - when lots of people start doing it for fun it becomes very destructive and fortunately usually gets stopped in the end.

[ameerat42]

Hmm! A fifth season. How did Vivaldi vote?
A(Quick! Duck!)m.

PS. And where's the duck gravy for this poll?

[extraball]

all of us should say nay! Imagine a pleasant afternoon of photography spoiled by, a bum full of bird-shot.

[ricktas]

I'm generally on the side of zero and Bob. I think that the responsible shooters probably outnumber the irresponsible, but it doesn't take many idiots to cause a lot of damage, particularly when those idiots have guns. I had some idiot friends who liked to go out pig shooting. One time they got lost for 3 days. Bloody lucky to survive. The relied on a GPS that soon ran out of battery - duh! The rarely got a pig but I'll bet they shot at something along the way.
The whole issue is a bit similar to allowing people to drive on beaches. It's fine when not many do it and those that do probably need to as it's the only way to get to some places. But - when lots of people start doing it for fun it becomes very destructive and fortunately usually gets stopped in the end.

I agree, but then that is the same with motor vehicle drivers (not just on beaches), and yet we can get licenses for that rather easily too. Cars and guns both kill, however we do not seem to have this 'zero' perception for all car drives the same as we do all (duck) hunters.

[Steve Axford]

But our society would not work without cars and trucks. It would function quite well without duck hunters.

[I @ M]

But our society would not work without cars and trucks. It would function quite well without duck hunters.

Perhaps you need to be a little more introspective with that comment Steve as to me it appears to be a totally one sided off the cuff statement indicating that perhaps just because you feel duck hunting is a waste of time the world would get along fine without them.

Maybe consider that everything in society has a place, you feel that the abolition of cars and trucks would cause our society to fail and yes, I agree that modern day transport is necessary, after all we wouldn't want to go back to horses and carts. Those cars and trucks keep a largish percentage of society gainfully employed right from the manufacture of them through the maintenance and repairs to the drivers of commercial vehicles. Of course the spin offs from that transport also include those who make a living from people being able to reach their holiday destination by a car or bus or whatever so they play a part in the overall society.

I will put it to you that duck hunters also play a part in society by keeping firearms and ammunition construction sales and maintenance people employed, boosting revenue for accommodation venues near duck hunting areas etc.

No, society won't crash because of the end of duck hunting but those who rely on such activities to earn a living will feel the pinch from the lack of revenue.

After all aren't they part of society?

[Wayne63]

Duck season was banned in 1995 in NSW, up to then I used to shoot ducks in season for my own consumption. Myself and a mate would go out on a Saturday morning and once we had 6 between us would go home and prepare them for our families Sunday roast. I did't (Don't) see any problem with that at all but as mentioned above there are always idiots that will ruin it for everyone else. mmm how I miss the taste of them too.

[ROA44]

I do support the culling of animals. within Australia we have a large number of imported Flora & Fauna which are decimating this country killing and sending to extinction our native wildlife EG pigs, horses, goats, cats, rats and that's with out starting on the flora. The only reason we do not see the implementation of effective programs to eradicate these unwanted animals in this country is because governments are scared of minority group votes and money paid to them. the failure of governments to allow these types of programs to be implemented is far worse than a few people going out and killing a few non native ducks. Yes I do understand the injuries & suffering caused to some that are not killed, but surely this pales into insignificance what is happening throughout this and many other countries purely because governments are afraid and so called do gooders think it just isn't nice. Well they are my opinions and many will object but this is a reality that some in society need to come to terms with and get off their pedestals and face The killing of animals may not be nice but there are a lot of other things in our society that are not nice either and governments are not facing up to those responsibilities either. Anyway that's enough from me I know this is not a soap box forum but a photography forum which I really enjoy being a part of and when I get a proper handle on posting photos and time to take them I will enjoy even more.thank you for reading and bye for now.

[Granville]

Anyway that's enough from me I know this is not a soap box forum but a photography forum .......

Actually, it's the Out of Focus forum so you can soap box to your hearts content. ;)

I will always support the culling of animals, except humans, that are not native to this country. I don't shoot, haven't got a gun, but when I fish I target predmoininatly carp (if I want to contribute to a clean up of a river or lake) redfin, and trout.

[Steve Axford]

Perhaps you need to be a little more introspective with that comment Steve as to me it appears to be a totally one sided off the cuff statement indicating that perhaps just because you feel duck hunting is a waste of time the world would get along fine without them.

Maybe consider that everything in society has a place, you feel that the abolition of cars and trucks would cause our society to fail and yes, I agree that modern day transport is necessary, after all we wouldn't want to go back to horses and carts. Those cars and trucks keep a largish percentage of society gainfully employed right from the manufacture of them through the maintenance and repairs to the drivers of commercial vehicles. Of course the spin offs from that transport also include those who make a living from people being able to reach their holiday destination by a car or bus or whatever so they play a part in the overall society.

I will put it to you that duck hunters also play a part in society by keeping firearms and ammunition construction sales and maintenance people employed, boosting revenue for accommodation venues near duck hunting areas etc.

No, society won't crash because of the end of duck hunting but those who rely on such activities to earn a living will feel the pinch from the lack of revenue.

After all aren't they part of society?
No, I think the comment was well considered. I would have thought that my statement was quite obvious and was in response to Rick's comment that cars and guns both kill. I was just pointing out that we needed cars and we don't really need duck hunters. I am not a rabid anti-hunter and I have hunted myself and used to shoot quite a lot when I was younger, but I do think that hunting in general needs to be well controlled as a minority of idiots can do a lot of damage and we know that guns can be used for other purposes apart from duck hunting. I can see how some farmers do need guns at times, but I don't see the need to promote their use in hunting ducks, which are native animals I believe. I am certainly open to arguments that there should be some licence to continue in some areas, but the argument that it is good fun and supports a very few individuals in gun maintenance and tourism doesn't really cut it.
Just my opinions, but I thought we were entitled to them provided we kept things above the belt?

[I @ M]

Just my opinions, but I thought we were entitled to them provided we kept things above the belt?

I can't see any indication that anyone here thinks that you aren't entitled to your opinion. That comment rather mystifies me.


I am not a rabid anti-hunter and I have hunted myself and used to shoot quite a lot when I was younger, but I do think that hunting in general needs to be well controlled as a minority of idiots can do a lot of damage and we know that guns can be used for other purposes apart from duck hunting.

I am not a rabid anti hunter and conversely I am not a massively pro free for all hunting lobbyist, there are far more stringent measures in place these days than there ever have been in the past regarding duck hunting and hunting in general with regard to firearms ownership and usage. Yes, there are a minority of idiots that do go duck hunting, the ratio of idiots to those who use common sense is probably well in line with the rest of society who engage in other practises. Your bit about "can do a lot of damage" is rather vague, I have seen minority idiot groups without firearms that "can do a lot of damage" and yes, there are plenty of examples from both groups on public display. Shot road side signs are an obvious example, just as trashed telephone booths, rocks dropped onto cars from freeway overpasses and vandalised public transport are glaringly obvious non firearm related idiot acts.
Yes, firearms can be used for other things, starting to veer off the topic of duck hunting here, just as baseball bats can be used to perform other tasks that to hit a home run or knives can be used for purposes other than to slice rump steak. Which of those 3 items get used inappropriately the most?


and supports a very few individuals in gun maintenance and tourism doesn't really cut it.

Ok, those who do maintain their lifestyle from revenue earned from duck hunting aren't valid members of society and do not deserve to make a living the way they do.

Is that what you are saying?

Our way of life generally tells us to regard those who work hard in lawful industries as bastions of society.

The duck season in this little corner of Victoria is regarded by local traders, supermarket, hotels, bait and tackle shops and the caravan and camping parks as a much needed part of their annual income stream. The effects of the money spent in pursuit of a lawful activity reach far further than just "the few individuals" that you seem to want to deem as not a worthy part of society.

[Bear Dale]

The duck season in this little corner of Victoria is regarded by local traders, supermarket, hotels, bait and tackle shops and the caravan and camping parks as a much needed part of their annual income stream. The effects of the money spent in pursuit of a lawful activity reach far further than just "the few individuals" that you seem to want to deem as not a worthy part of society.


I think so many people miss this viable point.



I regards to cars....well around 17,000 people died on Australian roads in the last 10 years. Add to this the permanently maimed imjured and then the people that were only temporarily injured and the cost to society of these deaths and injuries. I wouldn't hesitate to say that a lot of these deaths and injuries were directly related to idiots either over the alcohol limit or through speeding or other reckless driving behaviour.

[Steve Axford]

I can't see any indication that anyone here thinks that you aren't entitled to your opinion. That comment rather mystifies me.

Which probably makes us even as your comment about me needing to more introspective mystified me. What did you mean by that?

As for your defence of the duck hunting economy. Well, provided the downside isn't greater than the benefit, then let it go on, but if the downside is greater than the benefit then let's stop it. That's for the people to decide. I tend towards saying no because I believe the downside is greater than the benefit. You don't. Fair enough, but why get so worked up about it? Sure, there are other idiots out there, and they are usually stopped by passing laws to stop them. I've used the example of 4wds on beaches and I could mention trail bikes in national parks, or drunks starting fights in streets at night. In those cases, there is often a public outcry and laws are passed, which sometimes effect responsible people. But that's democracy, isn't it?
I'll try to reply to the comments about gun control which you accuse me of raising, but I just made a passing comment which seemed reasonable as duck hunting very much requires guns. Yes, baseball bats and knives can be used for other things as well as guns, but guns are designed to kill, knives and baseball bats are not, nor do they do it nearly as effectively. If you look at the stats for deaths due to guns in Oz, it is about 230 per year. Most of these are suicides, with only about 30 being murders. Unlike countries with a gun culture (eg Sth Africa or the USA) knives are more frequently used as a murder weapon in OZ (about 90), probably because most people don't have a gun. By the way, Sth Africa has at least 15,000 gun homicides per year. Anyway, as you say, this is a bit off subject.

As for being vague about the damage that someone with a gun can do, I do apologise. Let me be more specific. They can shoot native animals, they can shoot domestic animals, they can shoot themselves and each other, they can make the area that they shoot in uninhabitable for anyone else. I wouldn't suggest that the responsible shooter does this, but you wondered what the idiots can do.

One last thing. I would prefer it if you would just read what I said rather than rephrase it as something completely different. No, I am not saying that anyone isn't a valid or worthy member of society.

- - - Updated - - -


I think so many people miss this viable point.



I regards to cars....well around 17,000 people died on Australian roads in the last 10 years. Add to this the permanently maimed imjured and then the people that were only temporarily injured and the cost to society of these deaths and injuries. I wouldn't hesitate to say that a lot of these deaths and injuries were directly related to idiots either over the alcohol limit or through speeding or other reckless driving behaviour.

I agree about cars, but we continue to improve in that area. In 1970 there was 3,798 road deaths and in 2011 there was 1,291. It has been steadily going down as we put more resources into it - short of banning all cars and trucks. I have had several friends, a wife and a son die in cars, so I do see the need to keep working at it.

[I @ M]

Steve, my comment was merely my opinion that you should perhaps look a little deeper into your thoughts on the matter --- introspective --- as I felt that you may be biased in your views on the subject. Sure you can have thoughts and opinions, just like everyone else but please don't take my thoughts and opinions as an attack or "getting worked up over it" as I definitely try to take a balanced view of things.

I don't see your thoughts of passing laws to stop idiot acts as having a great deal of merit, there are laws in place to dissuade people from committing idiot acts but they still keep carrying out those acts be it with a gun or a screwdriver.

If you want to throw figures about regarding instruments used in crime, I never went down the path of selecting murder, the overwhelming majority of the weapons used in assaults, whether that assault resulted in death or not was by knife attack.
Also, bear in mind, the majority of knives used in those assaults were legally owned and the vast majority of firearms used in those assaults were illegally owned and acquired. So much for laws stopping idiot acts.

After a quick look, the 2009 - 2010 Australian Institute Of Criminology figure stend to highlight those facts.

Armed robbery http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/0/B/6/%7B0B619F44-B18B-47B4-9B59-F87BA643CBAA%7Dfacts11.pdf page 30

Murder http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/0/B/6/%7B0B619F44-B18B-47B4-9B59-F87BA643CBAA%7Dfacts11.pdf page 18

For more figures on the relationship between the use of knives and firearms in crime a read of http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/3/F/2/%7B3F2788C1-BCCC-49F0-A73F-F71620ABF7A3%7Dtbp045.pdf is worthwhile.

Yes, I see what you mean about what idiots "can do" but that is supposition about potential. What we need are facts about how many people have shot native animals, domestic stock, each other ( facts are available ) or made places uninhabitable.
Surely we aren't going to pass laws to ban duck hunting on the basis of potential and supposition?

Or maybe that is what some people would like to see happen.

[Steve Axford]

Hi I@M,
I'll skip the copy as it just fills up space and I'll try to address 3 points. Introspection, duck hunting and the passing laws to stop idiots.

Introspection. Introspection is the examination of one's own thought processes without any input from the outside. By definition, one could not be introspective about a proposed subject (eg duck hunting) as that would involve input from the outside. Perhaps you meant that I should examine my own motives? But then that sort of statement is not usually acceptable in polite argument as it is questioning the other persons integrity, which I'm sure you did not intend.

Duck hunting. Instead of being introspective, I decided to learn a bit more about duck hunting (thank you for prompting me to do that). It seems that the major argument against it is animal cruelty. There is plenty of literature claiming a ratio of 10 kills to 6 injuries for the birds from shotgun wounds. Most injured birds will die within days or hours of the injury. Probably in great pain.
I have heard it said that ducks need to be culled, but that seems to be in doubt as the duck population has declined by 70% in the last 25 years in Victoria and that the continued dry weather has meant that this is likely to continue. So, while it may be fun for some and profitable for some others, it is likely to be unsustainable and it is cruel to the ducks.

Passing of laws to stop idiots. Road deaths have already been mentioned in this thread and they happen to be an ideal example of this. Idiots kill a lot of people on the roads. Drink driving and speeding are the two obvious examples of this. I remember when I was young when there were over 1000 road deaths in Victoria alone. Now there are only a little more in the whole of Australia. At the same time the number of cars and the number of people have both increased. How did we achieve this? By making safer cars, by education and by the passing of laws to stop idiots. Those laws include - drink driving, speeding and wearing of seat belts.

I'll skip the gun killings subject as it is a raises a whole new issue which probably neither of us want to get into at this time. My apologies for allowing that to continue.

[Rattus79]

If you're going to shoot anything, Rabbits, Pigs, Feral Cats or Cane Toads make Great Targets!

[Tikira]

I am my fathers daughter, he is the "softest" farmer in the world i think. He enjoys meat but cannot stand the thought of it being slaughtered, and never for the fun of it. He is the only sheep farmer I can think of that prefers to buy lamb rather than see the life drain out of its eyes as an animal dies at his own hands. He has never killed anything for the fun of it, and neither could I.

Is every duck shot used for food? Do they all die humanely? If the answer to these things is yes, then that is a maybe a different matter, but I know kangaroo's, rabbits, wild pigs etc do not always die immediately or humanely and are terrorised beforehand, I have seen it with my own eyes.

:)I am a bleeding heart, arent I?

Di

[Allie]

Here is an interesting study regarding hunters :D
hunter study (http://www.dmgd.org/)

[I @ M]

Is every duck shot used for food? Do they all die humanely? If the answer to these things is yes, then that is a maybe a different matter, but I know kangaroo's, rabbits, wild pigs etc do not always die immediately or humanely and are terrorised beforehand, I have seen it with my own eyes.



Di

Di, please don't take it the wrong way --- but --- go and visit just about any abattoir where your local livestock is killed and you will see the same ( or less ) degree of respect paid to farm produce as any wild animal.

I think that there is a massive degree of "please don't make me think about fluffy ducks being slaughtered with shotguns" and on the other hand there is the "Damn, I enjoy a good steak and of course that is all done properly" element to the discussion amongst supposedly rational thinking human beings.

- - - Updated - - -


Here is an interesting study regarding hunters :D
hunter study (http://www.dmgd.org/)

I take my hat off to you Allie :th3:
If there was ever a post that was going to inflame the issue ( pun intended ) then that is it.

[Duane Pipe]

I haven't read the last few comments so please excuse me.....
Conserving the game population for futures recreational hunting is paramount.
I think we could do with more Ten year old's with guns to cull the Human population, Less guns more Ducks:D.

- - - Updated - - -

What the Hell has happened to Rabbits!
Bloody poison that's what:(

This country is a disgrace. Take the guns off hunters and Poison the Vermin Hmf....

[ricktas]

Here is an interesting study regarding hunters :D
hunter study (http://www.dmgd.org/)

Great, just what is needed. As well as animal rights activists out on the waterways trying to stop hunting, we also get scientists yelling 'show us your willy' at the hunters. NOICE!

[Mark L]

Great, just what is needed. As well as animal rights activists out on the waterways trying to stop hunting, we also get scientists yelling 'show us your willy' at the hunters. NOICE!

But the article says "Reaction from participants has been positive, and subjects described the results as liberating and a relief to finally be able to label their problem as a legitimate medical disorder." :confused013 :D

[Shelley]

If you go to the birdlife (sorry, Birdlife Australia) page on facebook, you will see a photo of Red-necked Avocets recently shot by duck hunters. Pink-eared ducks, hard-heads getting slaughtered.

Most duck shooters would shoot into a group birds, of which is a mixture of different birds... my stomach turned when I saw the photo of the dead Red-necked Avocets - senseless....

[Tikira]

Totally agree IAM, but this is his livlihood, the sickening events surrounding stock slaughter really upset my Dad, and it is unforgivable. It is very hard for my father to sell his stock, he has to block out the thought of them being killed, or he would not still be on the land.

He doesn't eat steak though!

Di

- - - Updated - - -

Totally agree IAM, but this is his livlihood, the sickening events surrounding stock slaughter really upset my Dad, and it is unforgivable. It is very hard for my father to sell his stock, he has to block out the thought of them being killed, or he would not still be on the land.

He doesn't eat steak though!

Di

[Allie]

Great, just what is needed. As well as animal rights activists out on the waterways trying to stop hunting, we also get scientists yelling 'show us your willy' at the hunters. NOICE!

:lol::lol::lol:

[ricktas]

If you go to the birdlife (sorry, Birdlife Australia) page on facebook, you will see a photo of Red-necked Avocets recently shot by duck hunters. Pink-eared ducks, hard-heads getting slaughtered.

Most duck shooters would shoot into a group birds, of which is a mixture of different birds... my stomach turned when I saw the photo of the dead Red-necked Avocets - senseless....

The problem I have with pages like that is that someone has said a duck hunter shot it, but there is no proof! We are expected to assume those who posted it are telling us the truth, when it could well be that a duck hunter was not in anyway responsible for the death of the bird(s). We only have the activists words that say it was.

I have seen activists hold up a protected species as having been shot by a hunter on opening day of the duck season, only to be called out on it when it was found the said protected species had died several days prior. The activist brought it to the duck shooting lagoon, in an Eski and 'planted' it.

I am not saying in your example, this was the case, Shelley, but I am extremely sceptical of claims made by activists these days. Seems a lack of integrity goes hand in hand with being an activist of any sort, as long as you can get your head or claims in the News, who cares if it is done so under a little less than the truth.

[Shelley]

Fair enough Rick. Time will tell as the duck season continues and what else emerges.

[Speedway]

If you go to the birdlife (sorry, Birdlife Australia) page on facebook, you will see a photo of Red-necked Avocets recently shot by duck hunters. Pink-eared ducks, hard-heads getting slaughtered.

Most duck shooters would shoot into a group birds, of which is a mixture of different birds... my stomach turned when I saw the photo of the dead Red-necked Avocets - senseless....

I seem to remember a number of years ago a large number of birds supposedly shot by duck hunters were dumped on the steps of parliament house on opening day. these birds were later examined and a large portion had not even been shot and even more were found to have been frozen for some time before. Also most of the few that had been collected on the day had been grabbed by idiots running out in front of hunters to illegally grab game legally shot by the hunters. Although I haven't been Duck hunting for many years, I still enjoy hunting rabbits, foxes, wild cats and dogs along with other feral pests.
Bob T. [When killing is a source of enjoyment, and that is the primary motivation, it says a lot about the hunter - all of it bad.] The kill is the end result. The enjoyment comes from being out in the bush with nature using your skill stalking the game to make sure you get a one shot kill. I get similar enjoyment photographing wildlife in it's natural environment. But without the delicious meal at the end.
Cheers
Keith.

[Steve Axford]

There seems to be quite a lot of support for duck hunting here, but nobody who will actually admit to doing it now. Do we have any current duck hunters here?
Can anyone see that the practice will survive another 20 years? If not, why all the support here? According to polls it isn't supported by the general community.

[ricktas]

There seems to be quite a lot of support for duck hunting here, but nobody who will actually admit to doing it now. Do we have any current duck hunters here?
Can anyone see that the practice will survive another 20 years? If not, why all the support here? According to polls it isn't supported by the general community.

I have direct family members who still shoot. I had a lovely feed of slow cooked grey teal last weekend. Hunting is not illegal, and along with a myriad of other things in society, in my view, we need to be careful what we wish for. So duck hunting gets banned and you applaud the result. Next up photography of children in public places. I think the erosion of what we can and cannot do is starting to border on being a communist state and not a free democracy (or capitalist society, depending on your view).

I still have a gun licence and there is nothing stopping me getting a duck licence and going out next weekend for a shoot. Probably the only reason I don't is lack of time. But I will defend my right to do so..until it is made illegal.

[Rattus79]

Next up photography of children in public places

I had a mother try and explain to me the other day that photographing her children in public was illegal...

She wouldn't listen and ended up ranting and raving at me that if she saw someone snapping shots of her kids she'd go and break their camera...

I wished her good luck and sent her on her way.

and now back to the ducks, which when prepared properly can be quite delicious, but so few people can prepare it properly.

[Steve Axford]

I have direct family members who still shoot. I had a lovely feed of slow cooked grey teal last weekend. Hunting is not illegal, and along with a myriad of other things in society, in my view, we need to be careful what we wish for. So duck hunting gets banned and you applaud the result. Next up photography of children in public places. I think the erosion of what we can and cannot do is starting to border on being a communist state and not a free democracy (or capitalist society, depending on your view).

I still have a gun licence and there is nothing stopping me getting a duck licence and going out next weekend for a shoot. Probably the only reason I don't is lack of time. But I will defend my right to do so..until it is made illegal.
Yes it is legal, and you can do it without any fear of legal consequences. But, it seems unlikely that it will be legal in the future. I don't see this a parallel with photographing children (which I see nothing wrong with) as they are completely different arguments. Fewer and fewer people do duck hunt now, perhaps through lack or time, perhaps through not really being able to justify it to themselves or their piers. I don't think stopping duck hunting is part of any slippery slope down into communism. I don't see that communism would want to ban it anyway. After all, communist countries don't have a great record with animal conservation. Nor do they show any great inclination to ban children's photographs - unless banning Pussy Riot counts - whoops, they're not communist are they, they're Russian. Hard to tell the difference. Perhaps they were always Russian first.
All this thread has done from my point of view is to draw my attention to the resumption of duck hunting in Victoria and made me learn a bit more about it. It seems to me to be about as justified as the Japanese and Norwegian whaling. Clearly you don't agree, but time will tell.

[Bear Dale]

Yes it is legal, and you can do it without any fear of legal consequences. But, it seems unlikely that it will be legal in the future.

How do you know it won't be legal for the foreseeble future?

NSW is opening up almost 100 National Parks for shooters to shoot in.

[Steve Axford]

I don't know, but I think it's a good guess. I doubt that the NSW action will last for very many years as the justification seems to be feral animal control, and yet most people in the know say that it won't help. As populations increase, so "sports" like hunting naturally tend to get pushed out. In the end it will be because there aren't enough ducks left to shoot and the people that want to look at and photograph ducks, far outnumber those who want to shoot them.

[Bear Dale]

I don't know, but I think it's a good guess. I doubt that the NSW action will last for very many years as the justification seems to be feral animal control, and yet most people in the know say that it won't help. As populations increase, so "sports" like hunting naturally tend to get pushed out. In the end it will be because there aren't enough ducks left to shoot and the people that want to look at and photograph ducks, far outnumber those who want to shoot them.


So you're against fishing as well because they're getting harder to catch. Maybe we should just photograph the fishies as well?


Enjoy your supermarket "game" Steve.

[Steve Axford]

When did I mention fishing? But now that you mention it, there is a clear need to control commercial fishing so that it is sustainable. This is a totally different argument than the duck hunting one. I remember that my grandfather had a fisheries book from the 1950's. In it it showed the fish that were prevalent around the Australian coast in the 1930's and warned of the rapidly declining fish stocks. They had areal photographs from near Eden showing fish schools that extended from one horizon to the other. Fish stocks have continued to decline and many non-communists are very worried about the collapse of fisheries due to over fishing. I am not advocating anything specific here, just pointing out that unrestricted fishing or hunting in these days of high population and sophisticated technologies mean that unrestricted hunting or fishing can mean the end of species and then we will all be forced to buy packet food in supermarkets.

[Bear Dale]

When did I mention fishing? .

You did, have a read back.

[Steve Axford]

I'll take your word for it. How about a response to the bulk of what I said.

p.s.
I did a search on "fish" and I didn't get a hit on any of my posts. Can you please point to where I mentioned fish?

[Speedway]

My only reason for not hunting ducks now is where I live there is nowhere nearby to do it and trying to survive on the pension means some enjoyable pastimes had to go motor sport and duck hunting were 2 of them. Re duck populations, if it wasn't for groups like the field and game assn. who build and maintain breeding boxes in the wetland areas and fight against the draining of natural wetlands the duck population would have dropped to much lower levels years ago. Shooters do more for conservation than most conservation groups.
Keith.

[ameerat42]

Maybe Baz could make up some iron duck suits for the ducks. That'd give them an advantage?:rolleyes:

[extraball]

give the ducks guns, and give them a fighting chance :cool:

[ameerat42]

And take them out of sideshow alley...

[ricktas]

Could always practice with some rubber duckies in the bath and my air rifle.

[extraball]

Could always practice with some rubber duckies in the bath and my air rifle.

expect a photo for CC this weekend then?
:lol: