Filter Type - Recommendations Wanted

[Mathy]

Hi Fellow AP members,
I recently had the experience of having a screw in Hoya HD CIR-PL filter fall off the lens and into a lake - not recoverable, and a very expensive loss. My issue with this type of filter is that if you screw it in firmly, it can become nigh on impossible to remove. Obviously, if one is 'delicate' with installing it, then the damn thing is just going to fall off :(

Being as how I work nights (Mon to Fri) and I'm disinclined to get up before sunrise on my days off, I do tend to want to take photos during the harsher times of day (in terms of light). Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that filters are going to be helpful to me.

I've been doing a bit of reading through the forum on filters that use a holder, and I'm leaning towards the Cokin P Series system. This is mainly based on price - I'm not sure if I'm going to like the 'holder' type system, so I don't want to over invest $$ at this stage. I know the Z-Pro are probably better and so are the Lee filters, but I'm a beginner, who has already had an expensive loss.

I'm sure there are some people who have thoughts about this filter system, and I'd like to hear them. I'm also interested in hearing any thoughts about how to make the screw in filters a bit more user friendly, then I'd consider going back down that path.

All thoughts appreciated, cheers Deb

[Wayne]

I use both a screw in CPL and the Lee system.

With the screw in type, just attach them until the filter stops turning, don't do them up tightly and each time you take it out of the bag, do the same. Being a CPL and thus being rotated it is much more likely to work loose than a normal ND type, so every now and again, I just double check it is seated correctly. I do it subconsciously, and have never lost one.

The Lee or square slot types are more work when using a CPL as you need the filter ring which works on the same principle as the screw in type filters by seating into the lens threads, then the slot holder clips to that ring and then the filter slides into the holder, essentially 3 separate components Vs one. If you will use ND and CPL, then this is a good system, but for CPL use only, I would stick to screw in types. I recommend the B+W, or Heliopan brands for a replacement of the screw in type.

[I @ M]

If you go down the path of replacing the screw in polariser you can safe gaurd it to a degree by screwing it in with "just enough" tension to stop it coming undone too easily but not so tightly that it binds and then fit a very carefully chosen rubber band ( broad neoprene are good ) around the joint of the lens / filter thread. That allows you to adjust the polariser rotation by feel because as soon as your fingers contact the rubber band they will move forward to the adjustment ring, the tension from a good tight band will stop inadvertent rotation as well.

[old dog]

hi Deb. I got the hoya pro cpl...and have dropped it twice onto rock/stone floor...and it still works ok. Just lucky I think. If you get another one (screw in type) then follow whats been said above and learn to rotate it (for polarising) in the same direction that you screw it on and it should never fall off. I learnt this the hard way.

[Rattus79]

I have the cokin P series polariser, and For the $$ I paid for it, I am not really happy with the quality. It tends to polarise unevenly through the frame. Admittedly, I usually use it at about the 14mm mark on an APS-C body, which leads me to the next point. The P Series encroaches on the frame (it's not vignetting, it's clearly the holder) on anything wider then 14 mm on my 1.5 crop K5

That said, if you're using ND grads, then the holder is the way to go. Cokins tend to give a magenta cast if you stack multiples, so I usually only use the 1 ND if I can get away with it.

the best method to get around this is to shoot in good light (Yep, I know, I work full time too, and I REALLY like my sleep too!) Sun sets are good too.

[Wayne]

Cokins tend to give a magenta cast if you stack multiples, so I usually only use the 1 ND if I can get away with it.

the best method to get around this is to shoot in good light (Yep, I know, I work full time too, and I REALLY like my sleep too!) Sun sets are good too.

Or just buy Lee.

[Rattus79]

That's an option if you're willing to wait 6 months for them to make them.

[Speedway]

I have had the problem with jammed filters even when only lightly tightened, the very fine threads tend to lock easily. I have found these (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Kood-Filter-Wrench-48-77-mm-Camera-Lens-Filter-Removal-Tool-Pack-of-4-UK-/200865198022?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ec47fafc6) handy, or you could try these (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fotopanda-SLT72-72mm-72-Silicone-Rubber-Lens-Repair-Tool-Filter-Wrench-/330763361457?pt=UK_Replacement_Parts_Tools_Repair_Kits&hash=item4d03085cb1). although I feel these would be no good for CPL's or variable ND filters.
Cheers
Keith.

[Mathy]

Thanks all for your thoughts. I had forgotten about the magenta cast issue - damn! However, a couple of mighty fine suggestions there for how to deal with the screw in filters. I'll keep researching :)

And Graeme (old dog), I wish I had just dropped/lost the filter on land, but it went straight to the bottom of a duck pond :eek:

And Sir Rattus, the only time I'm up even vaguely near sunrise is when I play golf. Hmmm, maybe I need to take the camera with me and entertain myself whilst waiting at the inevitable pile up at the tee of the Par 3s :D

Thanks for all of your thoughts, cheers Deb

[Wayne]

That's an option if you're willing to wait 6 months for them to make them.

Plenty of stock out of the UK at present, even the Big Stopper is regularly shipping.

Take a look;

http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/filters.html?lens_filter_effect=316&lens_filter_size=263&limit=all&manufacturer=15
http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/lee-product-order-updates/

[arthurking83]

the supply of Lee filters shouldn't be a problem now. What's going to hurt more is the price! If you have trouble getting them from anywhere, at least Vanbar Imaging have plenty in stock.

Lee are definitely better than Cokin in terms of colour, but at the price they want for a few bits of semi clear plastic!! .... it'll be a damned sight cheaper if you learn to use the graduated filter tool effectively instead! :D

Have you retrieved the filter from the pond?..... or is the thought of wading into a murky bottomless pit of silt and mud part of the issue?
Water and mud will not damage the filter in any way, so even if you retrieve the filter now, all this time later ... a good wash in water and it should be ok to use again.

I can't remember the number of times I've dropped, or mishandled, a filter and never had any subsequent issues with it. I remember one time up on a hill on a windy day, I used to handhold my Cokin grads, and this one day the wind whipped it clean out of my hand, and took it about 20-30m away into some bushes on the steep side slope of the hill. I had a spare and my incapable right leg not withstanding, I still went down to retrieve it .. and there was nothing wrong with it, other than a few dirty marks on it. cleaned it with water and it was good enough to use for a few more years again.

My thoughts about this lost CPL would be to simply replace it with another. I understand all too well the infuriating feeling of a stuck filter, and some lenses are harder to deal with than others.
I find that sticking filters is a lens dependent issue.
I've never had any issue with the Sigma 10-20mm lens and I have a CPL filter on it all the time. I think I've only eber had one issue with the Tammy 28-75mm lens, and can't remember any stuck filters on the Tammy 17-50, nor any of the other prime lenses I have .. and I have a few.
The two worst lenses I've had to deal with, are and have been two Nikons, one of which I still have. The 105mm macro VR, and the 80-200mm f/2.8 D lens.
I don't know what causes the issue with the 105VR, but the 80-200 has a rubberised front filter seating, and once a filter is seated tightly, they're damned near impossible to remove, more so with CPL's due to the rotating front bezel.
Some of my CPL filters are of the cheapest Hoya models, and while they generally give good results, being the cheapest models probably accounts for the fact that if the filter gets stuck(and massive amounts of force are required to remove it) that force also causes the filter to fall to bits too! Too many times I've had this 105VR CPL fall to bits on me .. one day I'll have to replace it.

[Rattus79]

So lee have solved their production issues then. Last time I looked to buy a set, it was going to be a 6 month wait!

Regarding the dropped filter, if it is a mud/gunk issue rather then depth, offer a local kid $20 to dive in and get it. It's amazing the things a kid will do fo $20 and how loud Mum can yell when she sees just how dirty his/her clothes are! :)

No one has mentioned Singh-Ray or Hi-Tech as a secondary option though, I believe the Hoya HD PL's are the superior option from a thing I read months ago doing a comparison of all the major brands.

[dulvariprestige]

hi Deb. I got the hoya pro cpl...and have dropped it twice onto rock/stone floor...and it still works ok. Just lucky I think. If you get another one (screw in type) then follow whats been said above and learn to rotate it (for polarising) in the same direction that you screw it on and it should never fall off. I learnt this the hard way.

Luckily I didn't learn the hard way, but I do the exact same thing as Graeme, and have never had my filter fall off and never have a problem getting the filter off the lens :th3:

[Wayne]

So lee have solved their production issues then. Last time I looked to buy a set, it was going to be a 6 month wait!

Regarding the dropped filter, if it is a mud/gunk issue rather then depth, offer a local kid $20 to dive in and get it. It's amazing the things a kid will do fo $20 and how loud Mum can yell when she sees just how dirty his/her clothes are! :)

No one has mentioned Singh-Ray or Hi-Tech as a secondary option though, I believe the Hoya HD PL's are the superior option from a thing I read months ago doing a comparison of all the major brands.

Seems they have, but yes, I waited about 4 months to get my Lee gear back in late 2011.

[Mathy]

Arthur, I posted a photo of 2 ducks a few weeks ago, swimming in a khaki green duck pond, that's where the filter fell off, and that's where it stays! Although, I could possibly try a magnet attached to some line, because the pond isn't that deep, plus it's a constructed artefact, so doesn't have a current, tide or other type of water flow, so the filter may still be lying where it fell :) I might give that a go.

And, Sir Rattus, I don't think I could afford the public liability issues of asking a kid to hop in there and find it :D

Thanks again, you guys rock, cheers Deb

[Rattus79]

Better man it a big kid then. Say a 15 yo. offer him a can of spray paint for payment :)