D800E - who needs TC's or long telephotos?

[Lance B]

A bit tongue in cheek, but it does have some basis in the real world in some situations.

Sar and I took some photos of some tiny birds yesterday, an Australian bird called a Double Bar Finch which is about 4 inches long from head to end of tail, so, very small! They were at a nature reserve where they feed them seed in a plate and they are very flighty and so getting close to them was a bit difficult, but we managed to get about 3.5 meteres from them sitting on the ground staying very still and then they would return to the plate to feed. This was as close as they were going to let us get and any slight or sudden movement and they were off!

Using the D800E with 300mm f2.8 VRII + 1.4x TCII attached and handholding, I managed quite a number of shots and here is an example of the resolving power of the D800E, not to mention the superb resolution of the 300mm f2.8 VRII + 1.4x TCII attached. As you can see, I still had to crop quite heavily from the original image to what I actually wanted to end up with. The cropped image that I ended with up was 4065 pixels wide from the original 7138 pixels which is 43% linear crop! So, I would need a lens of about 600mm, but with a close focus of 3.5mts! I could have used my 2x TCIII, which would have allowed the close focus of the 300 bare, but I do not think the result would have been better and possibly would have been worse.

Captured in RAW, converted in Capture NX2 and tweaked in Photoshop. These are all 1800x1200pixels, so to see their full potential, you will have to click on the images and expand them to the full size.

D800+ 300mm f2.8 VRII + 1.4x TCII, @ f5.6, 1/200sec, ISO900, handheld.

Original image:

http://www.pbase.com/lance_b/image/149062706/original.jpg

Image I was aiming to end up with:

http://www.pbase.com/lance_b/image/149062707/original.jpg

Here is an even tighter crop to show off the incredible detail. This is cropped to about 2100 pixels which is about a 70+% linear crop!

http://www.pbase.com/lance_b/image/149062708/original.jpg

[extraball]

simply stunning, what else can you say!

[ameerat42]

Lance. You can say all that again!

[Cargo]

I'm going to have to do it ....
OMG (sorry :p) ..... Absolutely amazing Lance, the detail is out of this world. You must be very happy
Cheers Cargo

[Rattus79]

Gee, those d800's are impressive!

I had a bunch of these little guys at my front door yesterday. Besti I managed to get was an out of focus mess. Didn't help that I was trying to shoot through a mesh screen door though! I figured I had a better chance shooting through it then to open it and scare the little buggers away! :D

[Lance B]

simply stunning, what else can you say!

Thank you very much for your very nice comment, extraball! :)

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Lance. You can say all that again!

Thank you very much for your lovely comment, ameerat! :)

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I'm going to have to do it ....
OMG (sorry :p) ..... Absolutely amazing Lance, the detail is out of this world. You must be very happy
Cheers Cargo

Thank you very much for your lovely comment, Cargo! :)

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Gee, those d800's are impressive!

Thank you very much for your nice comment, Greg! :)


I had a bunch of these little guys at my front door yesterday.

Wow, you lucky thing! I had never seen or even heard of them until last September when Mongo told us about this place that we went to.


Best I managed to get was an out of focus mess. Didn't help that I was trying to shoot through a mesh screen door though! I figured I had a better chance shooting through it then to open it and scare the little buggers away! :D

LOL. You'll have to set up a feeder for them and try to entice them to come back. Such beautiful little birds!

[knumbnutz]

Great detail Lance, very nice shooting.
You know what it also says, is that all the hype regarding Moire and the 800E is typical of the net BS where a camera hasnt been released yet every man and his armpit (eg KR) tells us how it can't work because of...- it is non existent when this type of shot is perfect for Moire if it was going to happen (in the feather area where has uniform repeating patterns)
nice..

[Darey]

Geese Lance, you have now given me the biggest case of equipment envy I have ever suffered.
Ah well, I'll just have to get out with the D7000 Sigma 100-300mm f4 and 1.4X TC and see if I can get anywhere near this quality.
Oh boy what a challenge.

All jokes aside, your shots are excellent as usual.

[Lance B]

Great detail Lance, very nice shooting.
You know what it also says, is that all the hype regarding Moire and the 800E is typical of the net BS where a camera hasnt been released yet every man and his armpit (eg KR) tells us how it can't work because of...- it is non existent when this type of shot is perfect for Moire if it was going to happen (in the feather area where has uniform repeating patterns)
nice..

Thank you for your lovely comments, Neil. :)

You are right about the moire, KR and the internet in general. I have had more moire from my D700 than I have had from the D800E!

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Geese Lance, you have now given me the biggest case of equipment envy I have ever suffered.
Ah well, I'll just have to get out with the D7000 Sigma 100-300mm f4 and 1.4X TC and see if I can get anywhere near this quality.
Oh boy what a challenge.

All jokes aside, your shots are excellent as usual.

Thank you for your lovely comments, Darey! :)

However, the D7000 should be just as good at giving high res shots and the 100-300 f4 is no slouch!

This was taken with the D7000:

http://www.pbase.com/lance_b/image/141556734/original.jpg

[arthurking83]

...... it is non existent when this type of shot is perfect for Moire if it was going to happen (in the feather area where has uniform repeating patterns)
nice..

The nature of the detail in the birds feathers is not, strictly speaking, ideally repetitive to induce moire in this situation.
The detail needs to be repetitive, not intricate(as it is in this instance).
Think of distant cyclone fences, or parallel lines of a distant fence. Due to the very small pixel pitch of the sensor, the pixel pitch of the detail also needs to be quite small for moire to become apparent.

Moire can be induced if the conditions are right. .. but in saying that, the only instance I've seen it happen it only required a simple click of the Colour Moire Reduction tool in CaptureNX2. Even the lowest setting removes it easily and efficiently.


.....
You are right about the moire, KR and the internet in general. I have had more moire from my D700 than I have had from the D800E!

.....

LOL! I had more moire issues with my D70s than I've seen on the D800 too. Whilst I have yet to capture the number of images I had with the D70, moire from that camera was a constant issue, and the removal of it was not possible using Nikon's then current software(Nikon Capture 4.x)

BTW, nice image, nice looking bird.


Oh! .... and a great example of the that direction photography is headed off towards(again) now. Think D7100 and the impending mad race to secure the No1 position as the leading manufacturer of pixels! :D

[Lance B]

T
LOL! I had more moire issues with my D70s than I've seen on the D800 too. Whilst I have yet to capture the number of images I had with the D70, moire from that camera was a constant issue, and the removal of it was not possible using Nikon's then current software(Nikon Capture 4.x)

BTW, nice image, nice looking bird.


Oh! .... and a great example of the that direction photography is headed off towards(again) now. Think D7100 and the impending mad race to secure the No1 position as the leading manufacturer of pixels! :D

Thank you for your lovely comments, Arthur! :)

[Wayne]

Astounding detail Lance. I appreciated the detail the D800 offers at the Airshow this weekend gone. We will need to catch up again for some bird action.;)

[Lance B]

Astounding detail Lance. I appreciated the detail the D800 offers at the Airshow this weekend gone. We will need to catch up again for some bird action.;)

Thank you very much, Wayne. Definitely need to catch up, drop me a line when you are free. :)

[AVALANCHE]

Magnificent work.

[Lance B]

Magnificent work.

Thank you for your nice comment, Avalanche! :)

[Dylan & Marianne]

makes me want to 'consider' a defection lol - especially given my recent woes with the mk3 grrrr
that detail is to die for!

[Rattus79]

makes me want to 'consider' a defection lol - especially given my recent woes with the mk3 grrrr
that detail is to die for!

If you're going to jump ship, you may as well make it worth your while with one of these mate:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/03/04/Phase-One-unveils-IQ280-IQ260-IQ260-Achromatic-series-medium-format-digital-backs
13 EV DR
80 Meg
Down to ISO35
Exposure times of up to 1 hour without apparent noise/hot pixels
MF goodness
Pocket emptying price!

[Lance B]

makes me want to 'consider' a defection lol - especially given my recent woes with the mk3 grrrr
that detail is to die for!

Thank you for your nice comments, Dylan! :)

Did somthing happen to your MKIII? I must have missed something, I'll have a search.

As for defection? Hmm, your work using Canon has been exemplary and I'd hate to think Nikon didn't do what you want and then everybody blame me for it. :D You know how Canon works and you get the best from it and in reality, the MKIII is a gem of a camera, although the extra res and the extra DR may help in your landscape work. However, is it enough to make you jump?

[rellik666]

Blimey that is impressive. I have neither the time or the funds for such a camera, and probably not the skill to execute as well as you, but you have made me want one! :p

[old dog]

great result Lance. This is just stunning and I have said before...you must be extremely happy with your gear to get this sort of shot.

[agb]

I think Dylan says it well, detail to die for.

[Iscariot]

saw this thread on another site. Impressive. Makes me realize that I am no where near getting the most out of my D800

[Lance B]

Blimey that is impressive. I have neither the time or the funds for such a camera, and probably not the skill to execute as well as you, but you have made me want one! :p

Thank you very much for your lovely comments, Roo! :)

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great result Lance. This is just stunning and I have said before...you must be extremely happy with your gear to get this sort of shot.

Thank you for your lovely comments, Graeme! :)

Yes, and I am extremely happy with this gear as it makes this shot easy! :)

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I think Dylan says it well, detail to die for.

Thank you for your nice comment, Graham! :)

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saw this thread on another site. Impressive. Makes me realize that I am no where near getting the most out of my D800

Thank you for your nice comments, Iscariot! :)

[salnel]

That detail is quite astonishing and so is the crop!! Thanks for putting up the original as well..it really shows the capability of both the camera and the photographer!! Terrific work:)

[jim]

If you're going to jump ship, you may as well make it worth your while with one of these mate:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/03/04/Phase-One-unveils-IQ280-IQ260-IQ260-Achromatic-series-medium-format-digital-backs
13 EV DR
80 Meg
Down to ISO35
Exposure times of up to 1 hour without apparent noise/hot pixels
MF goodness
Pocket emptying price!

Oh Lord how much I want one of those...

Lance, brilliant image as per usual from you. I believe the 300 f2.8 +1.4 TC is well known as a good combination.

[helmutk]

Wow Lance very impressive results should have my D800E next week some time will keep you posted !!!!

[ROA44]

Well I don't think I can do that with the D5000 & 120-400 sig. But nothing like the challenge.

[Belly]

Wow Lance, that's scary! The detail that is. You are very well suited to the D800E and obviously know your trade well enough to get the very best out of your gear and yourself! You have to ask, could you want for any more?

Remarkable images.:th3::th3::th3:

[Lance B]

That detail is quite astonishing and so is the crop!! Thanks for putting up the original as well..it really shows the capability of both the camera and the photographer!! Terrific work:)

Thank you ever so much for your very nice coments, Sally! :)

Sorry for late reply as well. :o

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Oh Lord how much I want one of those...

Lance, brilliant image as per usual from you. I believe the 300 f2.8 +1.4 TC is well known as a good combination.

Thank you very much for your lovely comments, Jim! :)


Sorry for late reply as well. :o

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Wow Lance very impressive results should have my D800E next week some time will keep you posted !!!!

Thank you for your lovely comments, Helmut! :)

Looking forwrd to seeing your first images from your new D800E as well. :)

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Well I don't think I can do that with the D5000 & 120-400 sig. But nothing like the challenge.

Thank you, ROA44, but I think you might surprise yourself as to what can be achieved using your set up. :)

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Wow Lance, that's scary! The detail that is. You are very well suited to the D800E and obviously know your trade well enough to get the very best out of your gear and yourself! You have to ask, could you want for any more?

Remarkable images.:th3::th3::th3:

Thank you very much for your lovely comments, Belly! You are very kind! :)

[Cage]

Well done Lance. :th3:

The extra megapixies are really apparent in #3.

[Lance B]

Well done Lance. :th3:

The extra megapixies are really apparent in #3.

Thank you very much, Kevin! :)

[Warren Ackary]

:eek: WOW.. what can I say.. well I can, the megapickles on the D800E are awesome for birders.. such great detail Lance.

Very rewarding after sitting down all that time!

[Shelley]

Excellent work Lance. Great detail captured. You gotta be happy with that.

Just wondering really as I notice the same with my gear. I have the 1.4x with the 500 and I find the DOF is very shallow. Front of the bird shows excellent detail, but towards the back, tail etc is not as sharp. I know all the rules come into play, but notice it more with the 1.4x when on.

[Lance B]

:eek: WOW.. what can I say.. well I can, the megapickles on the D800E are awesome for birders.. such great detail Lance.

Very rewarding after sitting down all that time!

Thank you very much for your lovely comments, Warren! :)

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Excellent work Lance. Great detail captured. You gotta be happy with that.

Just wondering really as I notice the same with my gear. I have the 1.4x with the 500 and I find the DOF is very shallow. Front of the bird shows excellent detail, but towards the back, tail etc is not as sharp. I know all the rules come into play, but notice it more with the 1.4x when on.

Thank you for your very lovely comments, Shelley! :)

I agree with you about the DOF fall off, the extra Mp's seems to show how quickly DOF falls off due to the extra resolution offered by these modern cameras. I do believe that we need to look at COC (Circles of Confusion) of less than we were used to many years ago. The old COC's were .03mm, now that possibly could be .015mm, so half, which also means half the DOF for a given aperture! Looking at the "On-Line Depth of Field" Calculator, and calculation the DOF for the 420mm lens and an aperture of f5.6 at a subject distance of between 3.5-4mts, it gives us a DOF of 21mm-26mm!! However, looking at the largest crop of the photo, I think the DOF falls off at less than that amount. The bird's head is almost perfectly side on, there is a slight angle, so from beak to back of head should be reasonably in focus, which it mostly is. However, the DOF from the side of the bird's face is very thin, looking less than the 21-26mm! This also depends on how much we enlarge the photo, of course, as the crop that I wanted, ie the second photo, shows that the DOF doesn't look quite as limited.

The thing is, I'd rather have the extra res and see the extra detail, rather than to have less detail and have what appears to be extra DOF, when it really isn't, it is just the lack of resolution that means that DOF looks deeper, if you get my drift.

[Shelley]

Yes I do Lance. I guess its just getting really picky, lol.... I do have that DOF with most of my photos and I love the way it falls away mostly anyways....

[Lance B]

Yes I do Lance. I guess its just getting really picky, lol.... I do have that DOF with most of my photos and I love the way it falls away mostly anyways....

I guess I mostly like the narrow DOF as it removes any distracting backgrounds and highlights the birds head, and generally the bokeh is better with narrow apertures. Sometimes, depending on the bird and scene, I will go for more DOF, but it also depends on available light and focal length! :)

[mongo]

superb image quality lance. Interesting and informative exercise too and one which Mongo has wondered about at times. He must now carefully digest the results as it will influence his choice of lens/converter combinations and prospective lens purchases. Big thanks for posting this.

[Lance B]

superb image quality lance. Interesting and informative exercise too and one which Mongo has wondered about at times. He must now carefully digest the results as it will influence his choice of lens/converter combinations and prospective lens purchases. Big thanks for posting this.

Thank you for your lovely comments, Mongo! :)

I just printed it up on a half sheet of A3+, ie 220mm x 330mm and it looks amazing! :)

[cupic]

Best work on display again Lance.Seems to me that your photography is at another level in Art .
TFS


cheers

[raccoon]

these are great shots especially considering the croping involved

[A J Alderson]

Very nice Lance. You have made my mind up about my next camera...

[Lance B]

Best work on display again Lance.Seems to me that your photography is at another level in Art .
TFS


cheers

Thank you very much for your lovely comments, Cupic! :)

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these are great shots especially considering the croping involved

Thank you very much for your nice comments, Paul! :)

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Very nice Lance. You have made my mind up about my next camera...

Thank you very much for your lovely comments, A J Anderson! :)

[DavidG]

Very nice Lance. Would love to meet up and bring along my D800e for a little Nikon love in ;) and then maybe go shooting .... we did try this once before but this was back in ye olde days of Pentax

[Lance B]

Very nice Lance. Would love to meet up and bring along my D800e for a little Nikon love in ;) and then maybe go shooting .... we did try this once before but this was back in ye olde days of Pentax

Thank you for your nice comments, David. :)

I am more than happy to meet up one day. However, I must apologise as I am just trying to recall meeting you as it must have been some time ago. :o

[Frank C]

Hi Lance .Just joined the forum , I am still using Pentax and the DA *16-50 i got from you , I would love to have a D800 in the kit one day , Nice pics .

[Lance B]

Hi Lance .Just joined the forum , I am still using Pentax and the DA *16-50 i got from you , I would love to have a D800 in the kit one day , Nice pics .

Thank you very much for your nice comment, Frank. Glad the DA*16-50 is working out for you. :)

[DavidG]

Thank you for your nice comments, David. :)

I am more than happy to meet up one day. However, I must apologise as I am just trying to recall meeting you as it must have been some time ago. :o

Lance your memory is OK ... it didn't happen ;) We tried to organise a group meet after PMA ... maybe 5 years ago ... but as I said it didn't happen :)

[Lance B]

Lance your memory is OK ... it didn't happen ;) We tried to organise a group meet after PMA ... maybe 5 years ago ... but as I said it didn't happen :)

Ah, yes, now I remember, things fell through and we never did meet up.

Anyway, more than happy to meet up one day. I like to get up to Mt Tomah regularly as it is a lovely spot, and I will be visiting Mt Wilson in the coming weeks for the Autumn colours at both locations, so maybe a meet up then.

[DavidG]

I'm at Springwood and the colour is just starting ... upper mountains are a week or 2 ahead .... so in the next 3 or 4 weeks Mt Tomah should be good to go ....

[DavidG]

Lance, I think Ive still got your mobile number as well (STALKER) ... lol ...

[Burnman]

G'day Lance -
Very nice work. I've noticed a fair collection of bird photos on the forum since I last looked! You have been busy!
I am impressed with your bird detail using a TC. My results with the TCs have not been as favorable as yours (I see a distinct loss of resolution using my 2x but 1.4 is OK on my 400) but perhaps more persistence is required on my part ;)
Keep up the good work. Cheers

[Miss Jane]

The detail and sharpness is outstanding!

Should I expect anything close to that sharpness with my D700 and 80-200 f2.8? I can never seem to get the eye really sharp. Not sure if it is me or the lens?

[ricktas]

The detail and sharpness is outstanding!

Should I expect anything close to that sharpness with my D700 and 80-200 f2.8? I can never seem to get the eye really sharp. Not sure if it is me or the lens?

You should be able to,though it is possible you need either the camera/lens or both calibrated.

[Miss Jane]

How do i do that?

[ricktas]

How do i do that?

you can do it, or you can get a service centre to do it.

Basic concept here : http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?109346-Focus-Test-Charts&highlight=focus+chart

[Miss Jane]

Thanks again, like the look of the lensAlign kit :)

[Lance B]

G'day Lance -
Very nice work. I've noticed a fair collection of bird photos on the forum since I last looked! You have been busy!
I am impressed with your bird detail using a TC. My results with the TCs have not been as favorable as yours (I see a distinct loss of resolution using my 2x but 1.4 is OK on my 400) but perhaps more persistence is required on my part ;)
Keep up the good work. Cheers

Thank you for your lovely comments and appraisal, Bernie! :)

Sorry for the late response, I had not noticed other responses.

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The detail and sharpness is outstanding!

Should I expect anything close to that sharpness with my D700 and 80-200 f2.8? I can never seem to get the eye really sharp. Not sure if it is me or the lens?

Sorry for the late reply, I missed these extra posts

Thank you very much for your kind comments, Miss Jane. :)

You should be able to get excellent sharpness from your D700 + 80-200 f2.8 combo, but you will probably not be able to crop them too much without losing it's edge simply due to the fact that the D700 has less Mp.

Keep your shutter speed high to avoid camera shake and if shooting animals/bird and people, make sure your focus is on the eye.

The other thing to do, as Rick suggested is to check your AF fine tune.

[Kajo]

Absolutely amazing mate. This quality is just out of this world. I need to get one fast!

[Duane Pipe]

PM me your address lance so I can permanently lend your gear;) The detail in the focal range is amazing.
They are all wall hangers to me :kewl:

[Lance B]

Absolutely amazing mate. This quality is just out of this world. I need to get one fast!

Thank you very much for your lovely comments, Kajo! :)

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PM me your address lance so I can permanently lend your gear;) The detail in the focal range is amazing.
They are all wall hangers to me :kewl:

Thank you for your very nice comments, Dave! :)

[Ian Brewster]

Lance, I am just blown away by you skill and the impact of your gear. Photography at a new level!

Ian

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Lance, I am just blown away by you skill and the impact of your gear. Photography at a new level!

Ian

[Lance B]

Lance, I am just blown away by you skill and the impact of your gear. Photography at a new level!

Ian

Thank you ever so much for your wonderful comments, Ian! :)