Happy to pay more in a store then online.

[danny]

Recently I have been going through the process of purchasing a set up to back up all my photos. I needed two hard drives. It being able to link straight into my home wifi network was an advantage. The members of AP were a great help giving me some wonderful ideas and recommendations.

So gathering all I knew I hit the internet and did LOTS of research. Now let me say... I do a lot of internet shopping from furniture to stationary I have bought it online, in the last couple of days I have bought from melbourne, canberra, sydney and china and Hong Kong. I have always said that if a store (brick) could offer me service I would be happy to pay more.

Well the other day I put my money where my mouth is. I was going past dick smith in a shopping centre in Wollongong, I thought I would see if they could help out. The man who helped/served me was exceptionally informative and helpful. So... I bought two hard drives and left with a smile even though I knew that i could have got them cheaper online.


Thanks for listening/reading I just felt like sharing.

Cheers
Danny

[arthurking83]

Yeah, I tend to do the same.
I prefer to try to support the local folks as a priority to the faceless online retailers, and did exactly that with the latest camera purchase.
Cost me $400 more than I could have got online, but that's an insignificant premium to pay in my eyes, in having the security of returning defective items easily and quickly.

Some things I simply won't purchase in store .. stuff like batteries or chargers or whatever other cheapie accessory type of little real importance.
eg. of that, I recently purchased a thirdparty mobile battery charger off ebay. I've seen these selling for close to $50 from the likes of Ted's or Camerahouse, yet cost me $3 online!!(yep! 3 lousy little bucks! .. postage included too! :D) that it finally came after more than 2months was also not an issue, as it wasn't an item of vital importance for me. Ebayer was constantly communicating and apologising, which I told her not to worry about .. and then one day last week, it just came.

For me it's a matter of the type of goods being purchased, the store I'm purchasing from and then finally the price difference between the local store or an online retailer.
I have a totally random personal formula for determining what I purchase and from where.

[ricktas]

I will also buy locally, as long as their price is reasonable. I don't mind paying a bit extra for the service, convenience etc of shopping locally. It is when the price is massively different that I go online, and I tend to then search other Australian places first. Most often I can find something in Syd/Melb that is cheaper than Hobart and would prefer to buy from there, than OS.

[danny]

For me it is all about service! There is a particular store (Aus owned) that I refuse to now go into because their service is so bad. I think in this digital age retailers need to provide a service/ retail interaction that online can't. But I refuse to pay more for nothing.

Danny

[ricktas]

For me it is all about service! There is a particular store (Aus owned) that I refuse to now go into because their service is so bad. I think in this digital age retailers need to provide a service/ retail interaction that online can't. But I refuse to pay more for nothing.

Danny

Kniow what you mean, I refuse to go to Myer. I stood in there store one day here in hobart for 30 minutes at a counter, waiting for some service. I then called the store on my mobile and asked to speak to the Manager. Told him where I was in the store and that I was waiting to be served. he told me that they were short staffed and to wait a bit longer. 15 minutes later I called them again and said I have stood here for 45 minutes, I am leaving and never coming back. He then tried to offer me gift vouchers for free as compensation, to which I replied no use having gift vouchers if there is no one here to let me actually hand them over and spend them.

Never been into a Myer since.

[danny]

Kniow what you mean, I refuse to go to Myer. I stood in there store one day here in hobart for 30 minutes at a counter, waiting for some service. I then called the store on my mobile and asked to speak to the Manager. Told him where I was in the store and that I was waiting to be served. he told me that they were short staffed and to wait a bit longer. 15 minutes later I called them again and said I have stood here for 45 minutes, I am leaving and never coming back. He then tried to offer me gift vouchers for free as compensation, to which I replied no use having gift vouchers if there is no one here to let me actually hand them over and spend them.

Never been into a Myer since.

I am doing that next time... can't stop laughing.

[geoffsta]

I do exactly the same.... But when a store is full of "Nuff-Nuffs" like we have here (Except for a owner of an actual camera shop.. Only one for 200 kilometres) You get far more brains from surfing the net for items.

I went into Hardly Normal a while back wanting a 1TB hard drive for my backup. This winker (As Kiwi would say) came up and asked what I was chasing. I told him what I wanted it for, and that I wanted a 1TB. He asked what I wanted to load on it. I said to backup photo's and other stuff. He then proceeded to tell me that I only needed a 250GB for what I needed to do. He also started to tell me all the rubbish about computers, connection and technical stuff, which was so blatantly incorrect (I have been involved with IT for 17 years. Back when it was called a computer technician. having a business in it for part of that time) That I literally felt like snotting him. Saddest thing is that he is regarded as the computer guru for that shop... :confused013

Now that Dick Smiths has changed to a store similar to Hardly Normal, Better Electrical or Retrovision. I do not go there much either. Except when they have a good special, and then I walk in, pay for it, then walk out, without having to talk to a service person.

I often wonder whether in their training for the job. That if the are trained to believe all customers come with no brains???? :confused013 Well for me internet shopping is prefered. Unless I go to the camera shop for advice.

[bladesp2]

I am after a Sigma 8-16mm F4.5-5.6 DC HSM so I search the net and find that a site I have purchased from before excellent service, Australian warranty ,fast postage and has the lens for $580 odd .so then to not let the country go to the dogs I email several stores to ask for best price and I get $990-$1100 .So I email them back saying how I would rather buy local is that the best they can do ,not one response .Its hard to justify the price difference almost double .That would buy me another lens . For what price do you put service 400 per sale approxamately 10 minutes of their time .

[Kym]

If I get good service and the prices are reasonable (20% + ??) then local is good.

[Wayne]

I won't buy locally unless it is very convenient by way of in stock and priced reasonably.
I refuse to pay any more than I have to, and like many of us don't want 'help' when I go into a store, because most of what you get is sales person BS, not real help. I do my research, am a well armed consumer and simply need someone to operate the cash register and issue my receipt, no further correspondence need be entered into.

I recently bought the Nikon D4, and here in Oz the best price was almost $6400 and I think I called everyone who sells them this side of the black stump. Some were interested in a little haggle, others simply can't do and that's the price like it or lump it. I bought it grey from HK for $5100!!! A good saving? I think so because with the change I put it towards a 14-24/2.8

[Mark L]

If I get good service and the prices are reasonable (20% + ??) then local is good.
As far as camera and electronic stuff goes, in my medium sized country town, there is very little competition, there is no service of any informed quality and the prices are basically not negotiable.
When wanting to buy a 60D, went to the largest country centre (hour and a half drive away), a Good Guy, when I said I had a reasonable idea of online prices he literally left me standing as he walked away raving that they couldn't compete with online prices 'cause of this and that.... didn't give me the chance to say I''d pay more to have the comfort of buying locally etc..
So went up the road to H N, did the sales persons job for them by stating this is the camera I want, what's your best price for body only. He goes and checks his computer. "We don't sell body only, you have to buy the lens as well."
Why wouldn't I buy from site sponsor B&H when just at the right time they had a special for nearly 50% less than those that didn't want to sell me a camera?

[danny]

What also surprises me is that these large places with very bad service still stock cameras such as the D800. Which makes me wonder, who would buy something like a D800 or 5D iii at Harvey Norman or Good Guys? (more of a rhetorical question). Surely if you were looking at that level of camera you would have a camera store that you would frequent or be willing to do the grey market thing and save money. I am genuinely surprised that stores such as these still even stock DSLRs.

Danny

[Papou]

Dick Smith:), always gets my $$ if they have what i'm after and seeling within reason as i for one prefer to leave my $$ within the Country and no need to go into a speel as to why as we are mostly grown up and know the reasons why:)..
but!! like most when there's a price difference of well n truly above 50% for the same product well my pride & $$ sorta goes there.
Been sussing out a Canon SX50 for mainly travel reasons, havent bought one yet as still trying to suss out if my money would be well spent and if i would get reasonable quallity with this compact or not??, but online i can get this Camera for aprox $380..Walked into the local Hardley Norman and the Camera sells for $1200 plus dollars!! !!???. Quite a difference ey??..

[Boo53]

I'm afraid I've given up on Dick Smith as well, unless it something small and I'm out and about anyway.

For a backup system like the op's (NAS RAID. etc:) a couple of years ago I rang site sponsor Scorpion and got very good & easy to understand advice and a very good price, delivered to the bush very quickly.

Mid december I wanted a Gary Fong diffuser and couldn't wait to get it from OS so did a google and scorpion were the cheapest, even beating ebay, for a genuine article (it was on special I believe). Placed an order Sunday morning on line. About 4 hours later the hard disk in a PVR died so I had to replace that as well. Rang Scorpion first thing Monday morning, explained what I needed, got good advice at a good price (when you're on the phone you can be googling comparisons as you speak). It was added to the order, no extra freight charge and arrived the next morning.

[fess67]

I won't buy locally unless it is very convenient by way of in stock and priced reasonably.
I refuse to pay any more than I have to, and like many of us don't want 'help' when I go into a store, because most of what you get is sales person BS, not real help. I do my research, am a well armed consumer and simply need someone to operate the cash register and issue my receipt, no further correspondence need be entered into.

I recently bought the Nikon D4, and here in Oz the best price was almost $6400 and I think I called everyone who sells them this side of the black stump. Some were interested in a little haggle, others simply can't do and that's the price like it or lump it. I bought it grey from HK for $5100!!! A good saving? I think so because with the change I put it towards a 14-24/2.8

Well Wayne you certainly live up to your tag of 'Telling it how it is" I like that and I understand how you feel. My personal experience / preference is to give the local guys first offer and if they can come close they get the business. By close I mean price and service. I am willing to pay 20% more but I expect the product within a week. Seems to me that is where many local companies fail. They can get there with the price but sheesh, only if you are willing to wait 3 weeks.

[ricktas]

Dick Smith:), always gets my $$ if they have what i'm after and seeling within reason as i for one prefer to leave my $$ within the Country and no need to go into a speel as to why as we are mostly grown up and know the reasons why:)..
but!! like most when there's a price difference of well n truly above 50% for the same product well my pride & $$ sorta goes there.
Been sussing out a Canon SX50 for mainly travel reasons, havent bought one yet as still trying to suss out if my money would be well spent and if i would get reasonable quallity with this compact or not??, but online i can get this Camera for aprox $380..Walked into the local Hardley Norman and the Camera sells for $1200 plus dollars!! !!???. Quite a difference ey??..

Not sure about where you are, but for stuff that Officeworks sell that Dick does, Officeworks here in Hobart is cheaper nearly every time.

[Xenedis]

I won't buy locally unless it is very convenient by way of in stock and priced reasonably. I refuse to pay any more than I have to, and like many of us don't want 'help' when I go into a store, because most of what you get is sales person BS, not real help. I do my research, am a well armed consumer and simply need someone to operate the cash register and issue my receipt, no further correspondence need be entered into.

I'm in exactly the same boat as you.

People like to give the Aussie battler a go, which is noble and all; but the reality is that Australians are ripped off for just about everything, and we're in an online world in which information and good prices are both readily available, and B&Ms cannot compete with their retail overheads.

[nardes]

If I have to touch/inspect it in-store to see if it meets my needs, I will always purchase the item in the bricks and mortar store regardless of the price variation. If I know exactly what I want and there is a considerable price difference, I usually buy on-line.

Cheers

Dennis

[Willow5075]

Unfortunately the " service" part is sadly lacking in most Aussie stores and the technical knowledge of most sales staff in the big chains is woeful. I only ever go into them knowing what I want, how I want to use it and all I want from them is help on where the article is and what the best value is if their is a choice - even that's like getting blood out of a stone sometimes!

[bladesp2]

It seems that if they lowered their prices they might sell more volume and make more money, but it seems like the bricks and mortar stores wait for a sucker to arrive and then fleece him for all he/she is worth IE: extended warranty ,SD card etc ect.......

[Xenedis]

It seems that if they lowered their prices they might sell more volume and make more money, but it seems like the bricks and mortar stores wait for a sucker to arrive and then fleece him for all he/she is worth IE: extended warranty ,SD card etc ect.......

I think the problem rests more with the prices Canon, Nikon et al. charge the retailers.

There's very little margin in cameras.

[bladesp2]

I think the problem rests more with the prices Canon, Nikon et al. charge the retailers.

There's very little margin in cameras.

That's the general spiel from the camera stores ! .I don't believe it for one minute I worked in retail for a while and even when they reduce (sale) price they still make a nice profit .The difference from say the good guys to camera house is generally large also .I understand the small store needs to charge more but how much more $400.00 more !.I buy local when I can but it seems camera gear more than any other electronic gear costs more in a retail store why?

[Xenedis]

That's the general spiel from the camera stores ! .I don't believe it for one minute

I do.

Still, I'd rather buy online than pay more money than necessary.



I worked in retail for a while and even when they reduce (sale) price they still make a nice profit

Different goods have different markups.

Did you work in the photographic retail business?

When someone buys a camera, why do you think camera stores try to flog flash cards, cleaning kits, bags and those useless UV filters?

[I @ M]

That's the general spiel from the camera stores ! .I don't believe it for one minute I worked in retail for a while and even when they reduce (sale) price they still make a nice profit .The difference from say the good guys to camera house is generally large also .I understand the small store needs to charge more but how much more $400.00 more !.I buy local when I can but it seems camera gear more than any other electronic gear costs more in a retail store why?

blade, Xenedis is pretty spot on, I have seen the price lists from Nikon Aus and know the level of rebates etc applied to camera bodies and lenses. There is not enough in it to even buy a cup of coffee for the dealer when trying to compete with imported prices.

The reason for higher prices of cameras in consumer electronics compared to a washing machine for instance is that just about everyone owns a washing machine and they need to buy a new one every 6 years or so. Not everybody in Aus owns a camera ( dslr + lenses ) so volume of sales comes into it a lot. The other factor is that someone who deals in photographic gear at a shop front level probably doesn't sell toasters, hair dryers, computers and televisions whereas the hardly normal people of the retail world sell those items along with the washing machine AND cameras.

[Wayne]

One of the interesting things here is the view some folks have (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anyone is right/wrong) that they are happy to pay a percentage more for a locally sourced product, a few mentioned 20% thereabouts to be acceptable.

I think for small items costing a couple of hundred bucks, sure, postage could easily eat most if not all of the difference in price if you got it offshore, but when you spend several thousand $, would say $5000+20% still be acceptable, even if we add the GST (which doesn't always happen) upon import?

Curious to know just how far others threshold for paying too much goes. Mine is pretty low.

[Lance B]

I buy locally in most circumstances, especially for cameras and lenses. I have purchased all my Nikon cameras and lenses from the one store here in Sydney, and whilst I could have purchased it all on-line for a bit cheaper, I would rather have the peace of mind knowing I can go back to the store and get good service if anything should go wrong. The other thing I am concerned about, but I have no prooof of this, is that some of the on-line stores may have old stock or refurbished stock or whatever rather than the latest up to date gear.

- - - Updated - - -


blade, Xenedis is pretty spot on, I have seen the price lists from Nikon Aus and know the level of rebates etc applied to camera bodies and lenses. There is not enough in it to even buy a cup of coffee for the dealer when trying to compete with imported prices.

I have heard that camera stores get rebates on the volume they sell in a given period, lets say per month. So, lets say they sell $30,000 worth of Nikon (Canon/whomever) gear in a month, they get a 10% rebate on their invoices for that month from Nikon (Canon/whomever), and if they sell $50,000, they get 15% discount etc. These are just figures I have pulled out of the air for examples as I do not really know. So, whilst they will show you an invoice for what it costs them from Nikon (Canon/whomever), this is not necessarily the price they actually pay.


The reason for higher prices of cameras in consumer electronics compared to a washing machine for instance is that just about everyone owns a washing machine and they need to buy a new one every 6 years or so. Not everybody in Aus owns a camera ( dslr + lenses ) so volume of sales comes into it a lot. The other factor is that someone who deals in photographic gear at a shop front level probably doesn't sell toasters, hair dryers, computers and televisions whereas the hardly normal people of the retail world sell those items along with the washing machine AND cameras.

Exactly!

[I @ M]

I have heard that camera stores get rebates on the volume they sell in a given period, lets say per month. So, lets say they sell $30,000 worth of Nikon (Canon/whomever) gear in a month, they get a 10% rebate on their invoices for that month from Nikon (Canon/whomever), and if they sell $50,000, they get 15% discount etc. These are just figures I have pulled out of the air for examples as I do not really know. So, whilst they will show you an invoice for what it costs them from Nikon (Canon/whomever), this is not necessarily the price they actually pay.



Exactly!

Lance, as my posts says, as well as having seen the Nikon hard copy price list and having had the rebate system explained to me, a case in point is where our local dealer ( very small but long standing and very knowledgeable with very good service ) was asked by me for a price on a Nikkor 35mm F/1.4.
I saw the list price, I know the rebate applied right down to the % on that lens and the % for paying his account by the 21st of the month and because he has a slightly better price structure than he did 12 months ago he was able to retail it for the same price as the better stores in the capital cities.
He got the deal over a grey market lens because:- #1 the difference wasn't that much in the end and #2 the very large savings I made a month previous when purchasing a 70-200 Nikkor from eglobal helped fund the 35mm. he is aware that I have bought and will buy from o/seas when the price warrants it, he is also very happy to have some business from me when it comes to some items.
There are no hard feelings between us when I buy grey stuff because he understands the impossibility for him to meet some prices but continues to give good service and of course he is all smiles when I spend some of the savings with him on other gear.

I am all for keeping the local store open, but like so many others there is a price point where financial practicality overrules sentiment.

[Lance B]

Lance, as my posts says, as well as having seen the Nikon hard copy price list and having had the rebate system explained to me, a case in point is where our local dealer ( very small but long standing and very knowledgeable with very good service ) was asked by me for a price on a Nikkor 35mm F/1.4.
I saw the list price, I know the rebate applied right down to the % on that lens and the % for paying his account by the 21st of the month and because he has a slightly better price structure than he did 12 months ago he was able to retail it for the same price as the better stores in the capital cities.

So, let me get this clear, are you agreeing with me that this guy gets a rebate for selling a certain $ amount of Nikon gear per month like I was intimating? It is not 100% clear whether you are saying he does get the rebate off his invoice or not.


He got the deal over a grey market lens because:- #1 the difference wasn't that much in the end and #2 the very large savings I made a month previous when purchasing a 70-200 Nikkor from eglobal helped fund the 35mm. he is aware that I have bought and will buy from o/seas when the price warrants it, he is also very happy to have some business from me when it comes to some items.
There are no hard feelings between us when I buy grey stuff because he understands the impossibility for him to meet some prices but continues to give good service and of course he is all smiles when I spend some of the savings with him on other gear.

I am all for keeping the local store open, but like so many others there is a price point where financial practicality overrules sentiment.

I couldn't agree more. It is up to the individual and their circumstances as to where they shop and I am not trying to force my opinions on others, just that I try to shop local and help out as much as I can if the difference is not too great. I usually apply my own ~10% rule of thumb, in that if it costs ~10% more to shop local then I will pay the local shop cost as it will invariably cost me about 10% in extra hassle shipping etc to recoup this dealing on-line for warranty/repair, especially if it is over $AU$1,000 and comes from OS as there is a 10% GST to be applied anyway! :)

[I @ M]

So, let me get this clear, are you agreeing with me that this guy gets a rebate for selling a certain $ amount of Nikon gear per month like I was intimating? It is not 100% clear whether you are saying he does get the rebate off his invoice or not.

As clear as I know it ---
There are more than just one rebate.
He receives a rebate on the overall order price for items purchased from Nikon as opposed to sold for the month, he might have 5 coolpixes sitting on the shelf for several months unsold.
Then there is a rebate based on each item.
It appears from the pricing book that there is no overall % rebate on catalogue items but rather a % applied to each product. The figures are purely imaginary in my following scenario but the variance is factual. A 50mm F/1.8 lens may have a 10% rebate applied while a 400mm F2/2.8 might have 1% and a $250 coolpix which is on runout special might have 15%.
There is also the aforementioned "prompt account payment" figure that adds to the bottom line.

Having seen some specific figures it is very clear that many dealers are selling items at or below their invoice price and using the rebate as their profit margin, they still don't and can't match grey prices in most cases. I have seen some prices on particular items where with a very high rebate attached they can get close to grey prices but at the end of the day month they still aren't raking in the enormous amounts that many people would accuse them of doing as "greedy dealers".

The middleman always gets their cut and therein lies the problem for both dealer and consumer.

[Lance B]

As clear as I know it ---
There are more than just one rebate.
He receives a rebate on the overall order price for items purchased from Nikon as opposed to sold for the month, he might have 5 coolpixes sitting on the shelf for several months unsold.
Then there is a rebate based on each item.
It appears from the pricing book that there is no overall % rebate on catalogue items but rather a % applied to each product. The figures are purely imaginary in my following scenario but the variance is factual. A 50mm F/1.8 lens may have a 10% rebate applied while a 400mm F2/2.8 might have 1% and a $250 coolpix which is on runout special might have 15%.
There is also the aforementioned "prompt account payment" figure that adds to the bottom line.

Having seen some specific figures it is very clear that many dealers are selling items at or below their invoice price and using the rebate as their profit margin, they still don't and can't match grey prices in most cases. I have seen some prices on particular items where with a very high rebate attached they can get close to grey prices but at the end of the day month they still aren't raking in the enormous amounts that many people would accuse them of doing as "greedy dealers".

The middleman always gets their cut and therein lies the problem for both dealer and consumer.

Ok, it all makes sense now. :)

[fenderstrat1963]

I don't mind paying extra if I feel like I'm getting value for money. That's hard to quantify, sometimes it's just knowing the store well enough to know there won't be problems if I have to return the goods, sometimes I need advice to choose the gear. At other times I know what I want and there's no room in the budget to do anything except go for the lowest purchase price.

Lowest cost is another thing again. I haven't had many problems with gear so the costs associated with returning it, waiting for repairs or replacements, costs out of warranty etc. don't get rated as highly in my calculations. Maybe I'm a born sucker^H^H^H^H^H^H optimist :D

[bladesp2]

for one thing the sales reps from these companies will and do change over the older stock for newer stock ,as its in their interest to have the latest product for sale .For a start their is the standard markup of around 30-40% and then 10% added so they can drop that and make you feel better for not being ripped of so bad.I am somewhat of a hifi junky and this camera gear flows along the same lines as hi end hifi until you spend large amounts you don't even qualify for a reduction in prices .Just because everyone in Australia doesn't has a dslr doesn't mean you should pay more ? .and as far as service in these shops they are instructed to push certain products to obtain bonuses and credit with the sales reps .

[junqbox]

One of the interesting things here is the view some folks have (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anyone is right/wrong) that they are happy to pay a percentage more for a locally sourced product, a few mentioned 20% thereabouts to be acceptable.

I think for small items costing a couple of hundred bucks, sure, postage could easily eat most if not all of the difference in price if you got it offshore, but when you spend several thousand $, would say $5000+20% still be acceptable, even if we add the GST (which doesn't always happen) upon import?

Curious to know just how far others threshold for paying too much goes. Mine is pretty low.


Understand what you're saying here in regards and an extra $1K, but if it's being bought as a grey market item from HK (or similar), I would regard the extra as 'insurance' of having less hassle if something goes wrong with it.

[Xenedis]

I am all for keeping the local store open, but like so many others there is a price point where financial practicality overrules sentiment.

Absolutely.

Unfortunately, the harsh reality is that if retailers cannot afford to operate under the tight conditions of the market, they need to re-evaluate their business model or get out of the game.



The middleman always gets their cut and therein lies the problem for both dealer and consumer.

Yes, everyone gets screwed there.

Parallel importers are able to buy stock cheaper and sell it cheaper than many retailers' cost price because they are not locked into the country/region-specific manufacturer's distribution chain.

What buyers need to understand is that there is nothing illegal or dodgy about the stock; it all came from the same factory, and that significantly cheaper Canon lens was merely purchased from a supplier which sourced it from somewhere other than Canon Australia.

Of course, the manufacturers know this all too well, and punish consumers by not providing a manufacturer's warranty, or allowing consumers to join associations like Canon Professional Services if their gear was purchased from anyone other than a Canon-authorised dealer.

- - - Updated - - -


Understand what you're saying here in regards and an extra $1K, but if it's being bought as a grey market item from HK (or similar), I would regard the extra as 'insurance' of having less hassle if something goes wrong with it.

For a one-off purchase, perhaps, but with my investment in gear, the saving I've made over the years is a lot more than that, and in my experience, I've never needed warranty service.

It should also be kept in mind that a manufacturer's warranty is only valid for a year anyway, so it comes down to a personal risk assessment as to whether paying much higher prices to cover retail overheads and achieve presumed peace of mind is worthwhile.

Also remember that Australian consumers are protected under statutory legislation with regards to the purchase of goods and services.

If you buy a DSLR from an authorised dealer, your dealing is with that dealer, and that's where you'd go if the camera failed.

If you buy a DSLR from a reputable online dealer which is an Australian business but not a manfacturer-authorised dealer (eg, Discount Digital Electronics), the same situation applies.

If you buy from overseas dealers, eBay shops and the like, I'm not sure where you would stand there, so there is more risk involved.

The parallel importers from which I've purchased over the years are Australian businesses, not Asian-based bargain houses.

[Dan Cripps]

It seems that if they lowered their prices they might sell more volume and make more money, but it seems like the bricks and mortar stores wait for a sucker to arrive and then fleece him for all he/she is worth IE: extended warranty ,SD card etc ect.......

This post shows a distinct lack of understanding, imo.

[bladesp2]

This post shows a distinct lack of understanding, imo.

I don't know what to say ,except have you never been into a retail store and been given the sales pitch ,extended warranty ,the old we get them back all the time you will need this etc .its the first lesson in sales ,its not a lack of understanding its the truth .Every sales man/ women is told each customer is a potential dollar value, and to get as much as they can. Its how it works .If you don't believe me go to any sales conference anywhere in the world . sad but true

[Xenedis]

I don't know what to say

Then say nothing and quit while you're behind.

[bladesp2]

Then say nothing and quit while you're behind.
yes absolutely, what was i thinking having an opinion !.

gee Xenedis Ive started of well, how to win friends and influence people by Bladesp2 LOL

[Dan Cripps]

I don't know what to say ,except have you never been into a retail store and been given the sales pitch ,extended warranty ,the old we get them back all the time you will need this etc .its the first lesson in sales ,its not a lack of understanding its the truth .Every sales man/ women is told each customer is a potential dollar value, and to get as much as they can. Its how it works .If you don't believe me go to any sales conference anywhere in the world . sad but true

You contradict yourself.

If retailers weren't already making next to no profit margin on the actual goods they wouldn't need to resort to add-ons, upgrades and extended warranties to make ends meet. The fact that these tactics exist is generally through necessity, not greed, as you suggest.

Consumer commerce is not a level playing field these days, that's the reality. Brick and mortar stores suffer significantly higher overheads to sell identical products to their online competitors who not only operate at much lower overheads, but are often able to buy the goods wholesale cheaper through grey market channels. A double advantage!

There's no point complaining about it. If you don't enjoy the in-person retail experience, buy online. There's no need to paint an entire industry and workforce with a negative brush.

In any case, why shouldn't they maximise every sale? It's nonsensical to operate otherwise.

[ricktas]

In any case, why shouldn't they maximise every sale? It's nonsensical to operate otherwise.

exactly, this is not an camera gear only issue. Go to Macca's etc and get asked 'do you want fries with that'. Add-on at point of sale marketing is wide spread. Buy shoes and they will try and sell you polish, leather protector etc.

[ktoopi]

I have never bought local.....I do my research and generally find I know more than the store lackeys anyway.....When I first got my 7D a few years ago I purchased a lens for about $900 to go with it from the same online store and saw the same lens a couple of weeks later in my local camera store for $2500!!!!!!! I don't know how they justify that kind of price hike! All my gear generally comes from HK via courier or USA as I have a friend who is an air hostie who carries stuff back for me when she flies to the USA :) Unfortunately I rarely experience adequate customer service in real stores so for me there is no point when everything is cheaper elsewhere.

[extraball]

just did an exercise in this today. Found a good deal on a lens I am interested in, online seller, sent them an email about stock, and delivery cost. Within a few hours quoted, its in stock, but 49 dollars delivery. Mind-you, even with the delivery charge, this is a significant saving compared to a retail outlet. Infact a "normal store" would price me out of owning this bit of gear, denying my chance to enjoy my hobby a little more.

[Xenedis]

just did an exercise in this today. Found a good deal on a lens I am interested in, online seller, sent them an email about stock, and delivery cost. Within a few hours quoted, its in stock, but 49 dollars delivery. Mind-you, even with the delivery charge, this is a significant saving compared to a retail outlet. Infact a "normal store" would price me out of owning this bit of gear, denying my chance to enjoy my hobby a little more.

What's the cost of the item from your supplier, and also retail?

I bet the price you're paying is lower than what a B&M retailer pays to manufacturer's official distributor.

[extraball]

What's the cost of the item from your supplier, and also retail?

I bet the price you're paying is lower than what a B&M retailer pays to manufacturer's official distributor.

549 retail (I can drive 15ks to the shop). Online with delivery 379. Anything over 400 is beyond my means. Actually, I am asking the retail outlet for a price-match (dont have high hopes though).

[Xenedis]

549 retail (I can drive 15ks to the shop). Online with delivery 379. Anything over 400 is beyond my means. Actually, I am asking the retail outlet for a price-match (dont have high hopes though).

If the lens retails for $549, I doubt the retailer can come close to $379.

You can always ask the question, but that's a 30% difference and it's extremely unlikely the retailer can match it.

[extraball]

If the lens retails for $549, I doubt the retailer can come close to $379.

You can always ask the question, but that's a 30% difference and it's extremely unlikely the retailer can match it.

correct, they wouldn't match, but reduced theirs to 499.00

[fess67]

I think this is all a testement to a sad fact of the modern world we live in. People (for the most part) want the cheapest price they can get. Nothing wrong in that, as I say it is the modern way but all too often the traditional bricks and mortar guys cannot compete and it is not because they don't want to , they simply cannot. The overheads of running a business mean they cannot match the online price (GST is a good example) but other factors play a part. Modern society likes it cheap and is comfortable with a global economy - fact.

[bladesp2]

update I emailed a large store in Melbourne and sent them the link to a lens I would like to purchase, and as I had stated I hadn't received a response .well yesterday an email arrives with an offer to do it for $650.00 they explained that was the same as the on line stores price with postage added.So it seems they can do better than $990.00.So I will buy it from them .and they don't markup their prices much !!.

[Xenedis]

I think this is all a testement to a sad fact of the modern world we live in. People (for the most part) want the cheapest price they can get. Nothing wrong in that, as I say it is the modern way but all too often the traditional bricks and mortar guys cannot compete and it is not because they don't want to , they simply cannot. The overheads of running a business mean they cannot match the online price (GST is a good example) but other factors play a part. Modern society likes it cheap and is comfortable with a global economy - fact.

The proliferation of the Internet over the past decade in particular has fundamentally changed commerce.

Look at what's happened to music stores (as in recorded music, not instruments) and bookstores. They're living on borrowed time.

If the business model is not sustainable, the business owner needs to adapt it or change tack in favour of something less dynamic and susceptible to Internet-driven pressure.

The consumer has the upper hand these days. Consumers can get what they want almost anywhere in the world, more cheaply than from an Australian B&M store.

[ricktas]

update I emailed a large store in Melbourne and sent them the link to a lens I would like to purchase, and as I had stated I hadn't received a response .well yesterday an email arrives with an offer to do it for $650.00 they explained that was the same as the on line stores price with postage added.So it seems they can do better than $990.00.So I will buy it from them .and they don't markup their prices much !!.

Depending on the lens. Certainly if you look at a Sigma lens, the authorised seller can contact the distributor and seek to sell you the lens at a price match. The retailer is then given a 'cash-back' from the distributor to help with the price matching. So it may not be as you put it about markup, but rather the retailer sought from the distributor a way to match the price.

http://www.crkennedy.com.au/v1/index.cfm?pageID=465&pageRef=179& (see the last paragraph)

This would also be why an email took a while to respond to, as the retailer would need to contact crkennedy first, and get approval, before giving you a price.

It is not just the retailer, there could be more to it than that, so blaming the retailer for markup could be completely without justification.

[bladesp2]

Depending on the lens. Certainly if you look at a Sigma lens, the authorised seller can contact the distributor and seek to sell you the lens at a price match. The retailer is then given a 'cash-back' from the distributor to help with the price matching. So it may not be as you put it about markup, but rather the retailer sought from the distributor a way to match the price.

http://www.crkennedy.com.au/v1/index.cfm?pageID=465&pageRef=179& (see the last paragraph)

This would also be why an email took a while to respond to, as the retailer would need to contact crkennedy first, and get approval, before giving you a price.

It is not just the retailer, there could be more to it than that, so blaming the retailer for markup could be completely without justification.

Either way its a good deal as far as i'm concerned .If as you say they are price matching at the suppliers expense then this is a win win for both parties .There should be more of it .

[norwest]

How much of the problem of shop front retailers not being able to compete with net prices can be attributed to appreciable variances in world regional price setting of the manufacturers?

[AVALANCHE]

Originally Posted by bladesp2 http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/images/BP-Grey/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?p=1109983#post1109983) It seems that if they lowered their prices they might sell more volume and make more money, but it seems like the bricks and mortar stores wait for a sucker to arrive and then fleece him for all he/she is worth IE: extended warranty ,SD card etc ect.......



I don't want you to feel like I am picking on you, however that is poor business sense. It is no good lowering margin to sell $1,000,000 worth of camera gear if the cost price is $999,999 to the retail operator. If you get what I am saying here...

As for me personally...

I have been in liquor retail for the past ten years, eight of those years being in store and operations management. I am 27, and have grown up with easily accessible internet...which my parents got back in 1998. With that, you notice some changes.

In my opinion and without rabbling on too much about the topic...thinking locally about retail business is out-dated and the need for thinking about a global customer is paramount. For any retail business to survive, they need to look at their model of receiving goods into their store...which is generally (but not always)...

Supplier > Importer > Wholesaler/Distributor > Freight > Retail

So as you can see without putting any figures up...you can imagine the costs add up to become a great mark up for margin before it even hits shelvesas everyone involved wants their cut. This is simply not acceptable anymore I think! It is sometimes unavoidable though.

Online is generally...

Supplier (with cost of freight inc.) > Warehouse.

As you can see, the costs are much lower...so these savings are passed onto the consumer generally.

Moving to a similar model is of benefit for both the retailer and consumer, that is, working more closely with suppliers. I do it all the time at work!!

The benefit of being in a store of course is you get to try the product out...the drawback is of course, the service that just isn't happening out there these days. I will go into a store many times and have no one approach me at all, at best! I think what has happened is employees are complacent about their role, their pay and therefore don't care about providing service because either,

a) No matter how much work they put in, they will only get the same pay, so therefore will do minimal what is required of them as they feel the extra work is of no benefit to them as it is not their business.
b) Have received in-effective or no training on product knowledge, and therefore do not have the confidence to sell it even if they wanted to talk about it.

I feel if point b) was practiced with vigor then (as I have proven time and time again) point a) becomes obselete as the employee gains enthusiasm and interest in what they are selling, which is then projected to the customer...which means $$$. Good sales is about relieving the customer of pain, so no way is add-on selling (offering flash cards for sale etc) a rip off if it is going to add value to the customers eyes...this needs to be done with sincerity by the employee though...they are not a shady used car salesman (no offence if any of you are ;))!

So...retail is still relevant. I can still recall when I received good service that I paid for it knowing I could of gotten it somewhere cheaper...

[simonr23]

i try to buy local where it's not a silly price difference(40%+) i work in retial myself, so i practice what i preach. i bought a little robot vac the other week online though. no local shops stocked the one i wanted yet!
and to balance it, i bought a nikon micro lens yesterday local. price ended up around the halfway mark of grey vs local rrp.

[Bear Dale]

For those who are like me and live in rural areas, online purchasing is a part of life.

[ricktas]

Remember that online purchasing does not have to mean purchasing from OS. There are some great Australian companies that have online presences that can give you good deals as well. Like Jim, not really rural, but Hobart is a small city compared to some of the others in Aus, and I often find things online from the Syd/Melb retailers cheaper by a long way, than I can buy them locally here in Hobart.

[Bear Dale]

As Rick mentioned, online shopping doesn't always have to mean overseas. I have been using fotofriends in Broadway (Sydney) for sometime now for Canon lenses and they are very close to OS prices. It's a 7-8 hour return drive for me to go to Sydney and nearly always relied on express mail for a new lens unless I was in Sydney for some other reason.

We did have a 1 hour independant photolab that had been in town for over 20 years, they even road out the incredible hit to their business when Coles finally came to our town and had a minilab. They actually outlasted the Coles lab, but have now also closed their doors and it was because of online printing. They used to charge $14.00 for an A4 print and dropped down to $12.00 in their last 6 months, but that is just way more than online printing or home printing. Their prices where the main reason that I invested in a good A4 photo printer.

After being linked in another thread to RGB who are online printers and seeing their prices, I'm amazed that my local printer lasted so long.

The internet has caused a massive upheaval in people 'knowledge' of prices and how much more they have been paying and for how long. But it's coming at a massive cost to family business's, our local pro dive shop is suffering loss or sales as is our fishing tackle shop. People are just buying gear online, it's just not photograhy, it's across all purchases.

[Xenedis]

The internet has caused a massive upheaval in people 'knowledge' of prices and how much more they have been paying and for how long. But it's coming at a massive cost to family business's, our local pro dive shop is suffering loss or sales as is our fishing tackle shop. People are just buying gear online, it's just not photograhy, it's across all purchases.

Indeed, and as I asserted earlier in this thread, retail businesses either need to adapt their business model to suit how the market is operating, or seek greener pastures.

[Wayne]

Online shopping is not only for saving $, although I think it is the primary reason for those who utilise online resellers, it offers variety and convenience.
For a number of years until Sept 2012 I lived in Mount Isa, far NW QLD. It is among the most remote populated and developed towns in Australia and the local retailers knew it. They have a small Harvey Norman, who stocked what they wanted, and charged a serious premium. Many locals would simply shop via phone through the same Townsville based chains, and get things at huge discounts even after a few $ shipping.

Living in remote places means getting raped on price, dictated to regarding variety and availability of items you can purchase, and often no way of seeing things in the flesh before purchase. What is to like about that experience??
I can tell you that buying what you want elsewhere, usually online at a huge saving is what there is to like!

If local businesses can't compete, adapt, close up shop or fail, because the global shopping mall isn't going anywhere but on to become bigger and better for consumers.