UWA - inside architecture

[rbat]

I've always been interested in getting a UWA for landscapes. But shooting inside some interesting buildings on the weekend had me thinking about inside value also. I used my 28-75 @ 28mm & f/2.8 and was quite happy. However, I really would have loved to have gone wider. What are others using?

[ameerat42]

Recently (Woops! Lost the thread!) there was a discussion about this topic where the following, that I can remember, figured:
A Tokina 11-something, Sigma 10-20 (one with constant f-stop), and Sigma 8-16. I seem to remember a Canon lens to, but...

My "widest", a term I use loosely and with a block of rock salt, is a Sigma 30/1.4. I mention this because, like you, I find it way too narrow sometimes.
Am.

[nwhc]

I think canon make a 14mm 2.8 with architecture in mind, i could be wrong though but if they do that would probably be the one to go with.

[Warus]

Tokina 11-16 on a crop as it is also a f2.8 which helps if you are not using a tripod.

[Xenedis]

I've always been interested in getting a UWA for landscapes. But shooting inside some interesting buildings on the weekend had me thinking about inside value also. I used my 28-75 @ 28mm & f/2.8 and was quite happy. However, I really would have loved to have gone wider. What are others using?

I shoot my interior architecture shots at 16mm (full-frame, not APS-C). Most of my 'scapes are also taken at 16mm.

I've been using that focal length for years, and it's great.

Yesterday we were in Jerusalem, and I had the opportunity to photgraph the interiors of significant churches in the Old City. Will post some images later.

[ameerat42]

...I shoot my interior architecture shots at 16mm (full-frame, not APS-C)...

Which is approx equivalent to 10 or 11mm FOV on a (1.5X) crop factor camera such as your 450D, Rbat.

[Xenedis]

To give you an idea how wide is 16mm, here's an interior I shot of St Peter's Anglican Cathedral in Adelaide.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6105/6211019282_f8ed2d3a16_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/xenedis/6211019282/)

You can see both the floor and the ceiling in this image.

[Glenda]

I recently purchased the Tokina 11-16 f2.8 and am very pleased with it. We already own the Nikon 10-24 but when travelling both of us would like a UWA, particularly for inside buildings where I think the faster Tokina will be handy also. The hardest think I've found with an ultrawide in landscapes is remembering to check the whole frame as it's amazing how much it captures.

[rbat]

Thank you so much for the replies. Xenedis - that church is huge so 16mm is very impressive. Were you using a flash? I take it you are using 16-35?

As ameerat42 states though, I use a 450D so it wouldn't be as wide for me. However I have been thinking to upgrade to a 6D in the next few months so it is worth considering long term purchase requirements. You are right, 30mm is too narrow for what I'm looking for. I have a 18-55 kit lens which is already wide but quite useless inside unless using flash.

Lplates, have you taken shots inside using the Tokina?

[Xenedis]

Xenedis - that church is huge so 16mm is very impressive. Were you using a flash? I take it you are using 16-35?

Indeed, it is the Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM.

No flash. Flash, apart from being entirely ineffective, destroys the ambience of interiors.

[ameerat42]

...However I have been thinking to upgrade to a 6D in the next few months so it is worth considering long term purchase requirements. You are right, 30mm is too narrow for what I'm looking for. I have a 18-55 kit lens which is already wide but quite useless inside unless using flash...

A couple of points about this...
1) OK, FYI only, the lenses in the Sigma range that are suitable for a FF camera like the Canon 6D have the "DG" specification (NOT the DC ones.) Of course, the DG lenses will work on crop frame cameras as well, but DC will NOT (work properly at least) on an FF camera. Here is a link to the Sigma WA zooms (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/wide-angle-zoom-lenses). The only one listed here that's suitable for FF is the 12-24mm F4.5-5.6 DG HSM II. Don't jump at the price there, as you typically pay about 2/3 that here. And an aspect of that lens leads to the next point...

2) You seem to be saying that unless you use flash "inside" your kit lens is useless, PRESUMABLY because of its relatively higher f-stop when it is at widest aperture. NOT MANY zooms of any sort can sport a wide aperture. I note the Tokina 11-16 does f/2.8 but AFAI can tell, it's a crop camera lens. When it comes to indoor shooting, you have the likes of a house, maybe a reception hall, and the likes of the cathedral as in Xen's thread above. In the latter two cases you would soon find that a flash would become useless. When the scale of the environment changes, your photographic techniques have to change.

Just some thoughts.
Am.

[Tricky]

Not cheap but the TS-E 17mm tilt shift is excellent for both interior and exterior architecture - very wide on full frame, pin sharp, absolutely distortion free and you can address perspective issues by using the shift function.

[Warus]

Not a building but sort of a temple. Shot this hand held at 11mm and 2.8 on my Tokina just for reference. This is mounted on a 7D and was rather dark in there.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t9/warus2/cave2web.jpg

[rbat]

Warus, thank you! I much appreciate you taking the time to post an image with the Tokina. That is exactly what I was looking for. I was shooting inside an old library wing and I found f/2.8 fine, it was just that it was a 28-75 lens so was not wide enough for me. What ISO were you using?

Tricky, I'm sure the 17mm is perfection but for that price, it is way out of my price range & league. Thank you for putting it on the table though.

Am, thank you for your thoughtful comments. I assure you, my technique does change for the environment I'm shooting in. However at the moment, I'm limited with the equipment I have - hence the lens questions :) The 450D only goes to 1600 ISO & shooting with f/2.8 with my 28-75 was a bit too narrow for the inside architecture I was looking at. As a rule, I don't use my kit lenses inside, I use the 28-75 as it is a more capable lens and of course I can shoot at f/2.8 if I need to.

[Warus]

ISO 1600 on this one

Camera Make = Canon
Camera Model = Canon EOS 7D
Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/8 second ===> 0.125 second
Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 14/5 ===> ƒ/2.8
Exposure Program = aperture priority (3)
ISO Speed Ratings = 1600
EXIF Version = 0221
Original Date/Time = 2011:02:05 10:16:25
Digitization Date/Time = 2011:02:05 10:16:25
Shutter Speed Value (APEX) = 3/1
Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) = 1/8 second
Aperture Value (APEX) = 24361/8200
Aperture = ƒ/2.8
Exposure Bias (EV) = 0/1 ===> 0
Max Aperture Value (APEX) = 24361/8200 ===> 2.97
Max Aperture = ƒ/2.8
Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5)
Flash = Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Focal Length = 11/1 mm ===> 11 mm
White Balance = auto (0)

[CarlR]

14-24 f2.8 Nikkor for me. Suitable for FF. Sharp. Fast enough for interiors. Some find the bulbous front element a deal breaker due to the difficulty using filters (particularly ND grads for landscapes).

[mikec]

rbat: I used to own a 450D and used a Sigma 10-20mm on that. I now have a 5D II and use a 16-35 II on that. Both will offer similar wide angle views and I found the 10-20mm to be a very good lens for the money.

Zooms are a good all round choice and will serve you well for years. The prime examples people have shown above are more specialist and expensive. If you were 100% serious about dedicating yourself to true architectural work you'd be buying either a 17mm TS-E or the 24mm TS-E. Most of the architectural photographers I've run across through work (I work for an architectural practice) use both of these lenses extensively.

For the everyday punter, just get the widest zoom lens that has the least amount of distortion (that doesn't create a fish eye effect) that you can afford. Fast f/stop is nice but not high on the list of priorities IMO since you'll be stopping the lens down to increase the depth of field.

[William W]

I've always been interested in getting a UWA for landscapes. But shooting inside some interesting buildings on the weekend had me thinking about inside value also. I used my 28-75 @ 28mm & f/2.8 [on my EOS 450D] and was quite happy. However, I really would have loved to have gone wider. What are others using?

There are a few options to take.

I like using the 16 to 35 zoom for interiors also, but as a general I tend to use no wider than a 24mm (on 135 format) so that equates to about FL = 15mm on a Canon APS-C Camera.
I like FL = 24mm because I am experienced in that FL as I have used a 24mm Prime Lens, for many years and I know the ‘limits’ and I quite like the keeping the uniformity of the geometry of interiors,
Using FL = 24mm I know I can make images with minimal, if not no Post Production Fiddling and keep all the Verticals and the Horizontals under control – albeit at the expense of a limited FoV .
As, for example here – I was happy to sacrifice and crop the foreground Chandelier to make a Photograph requiring little Post Production:
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/16781841-md.jpg


On the other hand I also like using a Fisheye Lens for some interiors - especially then cropping it to a 2:1 Aspect Ratio:
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/16781842-md.jpg

Apropos your comments about the Kit Lens (18 to 55F/3.5 to 5.6) being useless for interiors: I disagree.
If we are addressing the Maximum Aperture of this lens (and this has already been mentioned), then the available F/3.5 (at FL = 18mm to 22mm) is only fractionally slower than F/2.8 any UWA ZOOM lens will have – and that is not much.
If we are addressing the (perceived) quality of the Kit Lens – then it gets an undeserved bad wrap – it actually is pretty good, wide open at FL = 18mm as this example using the OLD / Original kit lens shows:
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/10950622-lg.jpg
FL = 18mm, shot at: F/3.5 @ 1/50s @ ISO800 (on a EOS20D)

Certainly the “Kit Lens” is capable of low light, interior work which is suitable for publication, again the older kit lens used on a 20D and Hand Held:
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/12526152-lg.jpg
Li Cunxin , Sydney 2005

***

About using Flash Indoors, for VAST interiors – one viable solution (to fill dark holes) is to use MULTIPLE and TARGETED hand held manual flash exposures combined with a long AMBIENT LIGHT Exposure.

Another option is to use LIGHT PAINTING with a beam – and this is the method I prefer.

Both these techniques assume one has the option and availability to use a Tripod. Both Multiple Flash and Light Painting require practice – and also lots of mistakes to get the ‘starting point’ correct.

The technique of filling in dark areas in situ – renders better results than attempting to bring those dark areas up in Post Production: though using HIGH DYNAMIC RANGE IMAGING is a most viable option if one already has the use of a Tripod – and that is usually much quicker than fiddling with hand held lights at the source.

Using Image Stabilized Lenses (one massive advantage of the EF-S 17 to 55F/2.8 and similar Image Stabilized WA EF-S lenses) and an high ISO - it is possible to make three bracketed exposures sub 1/15second and that might be enough to make a good HDRI final result.

If you are considering a 135 Format Camera, the EF24/2.8 IS would be in contention for consideration.

A lot depends on the shooting scenario you expect you will most often find yourself in – IF I were into “Architectural Photography” then I would use a set of TS-E Lenses on 135 Format . . . but if the questions is more about “Shooting Interiors of interesting Buildings whilst I am travelling around this wonderful world” then I would be looking for a Lens which allowed that – AND ALSO a lot more for me to use from that ONE LENS – and (for a 135 kit - like the 6D you are considering) I would choose the 24 to 105F/4 IS USM – because I would be confident that FL = 24mm AND the Image Stabilization AND patience to wait for the shot, would get me through 95% of all the ‘interiors’ I would want to keep . . .and I could always STITCH a couple of images together, which I have done occasionally and that is quite easy to do.

But you already have a 28/2.8 with that Tamron Zoom . . . I think you need to think of you "whole kit" and in this regard perhaps (initially) choose where you are going with your camera. . .

ON an 6D Camera, the 16 to 35/2.8MkII OR the 17 to 40/4 would make a nice partner for that Tamron Zoom, which you already have. ? ? ?

WW

[aalex]

siggie 12-24mm!!:tog: