Manual versus other modes

[alsocass]

I have been working my way through the 'New to photography' book (fabulous by the way), and I want to understand a bit more about the prevalence of the different camera modes.

I say that I 'switched to manual' a few months ago, by which I mean that I stopped using the auto feature and started using the other modes. For me I wanted to throw myself in the deep end so I did switch to manual and have never changed modes since. I had an interesting morning a few days ago in which I took photos of my daughters in constantly changing light conditions (in a paddling pool partly under the shade of some fruit trees). The results were completely unusable, even as snapshots for the fridge, but I enjoyed the experience of having to constantly change the shutter speed and aperture in order to take the photos I want... it was a good exercise.

The books says this:

In practice most photography is done using Av or Tv mode; manual is usually only used for special reasons.
Some photographers use manual all the time (and usually made a big noise about this fact) but it is not necessary.

I have become a bit afraid of using those modes, as if doing so will plunge me back in the direction of the auto button. I guess what I am asking is ... is this true? Is Av and Tv the modes that I should most often be using? It would certainly make taking photos of my children easier. But is there any benefit to sticking with Manual while I am learning (I am starting to think it would be better from a learning perspective to use the semi-automatic so I can take better shots without having to focus so much on the triangle).

[Xenedis]

My view is that you should use the exposure mode(s) most appropriate for your comfort level, experience and the shooting conditions.

Personally, I use manual exposure mode 99.9% of the time. Before I explain why, I'm only mentioning this fact because it's pertinent to the topic. Unlike what the author of your book asserts, I don't need to make a song and dance about it, and personally I don't care what exposure mode, gear or whatever else people use; to me, the image is what matters.

I use manual exposure mode because I am very familiar with it, well used to using it, and because I want absolute control over what the camera does. The subjects I shoot do not require rapid adjustments due to changing light conditions or moving subjects; I predominantly shoot seascapes, landscapes, cityscapes, portraits and still-life. These forms of photography allow you to slow down and get it right without having to quickly react for fear of missing the critical moment.

If you shoot events, sports, wildlife and theatrical/music performances, manual exposure mode is probably not the most appropriate mode, as your keeper rate will potentially be lower. For movement, Tv mode would generally be the most appropriate, as in most situations you need a shutter speed sufficiently fast to freeze movement.

From a technical perspective, another reason why I use manual exposure mode is because I bracket. I tend to shoot multiple exposures of the same composition, sometimes from -4EV to +4EV. The semi-automatic modes do not allow this, and even if I'm shooting only one exposure, the light meter doesn't always get it right, so I may deliberately under- or over-expose by a third or two thirds of a stop.

If you're shooting silhouettes, you might want to under-expose in order to ensure the subject is black and to intensify the colours of the sky. Semi-automatic modes don't allow you to do that. You can dial in some exposure compensation, but that's a feature I've never used or bothered to investigate. I really prefer to keep it simple and control my ISO rating, shutter speed and aperture independently of one another.

My advice to you is to learn to use manual exposure mode, but recognise when it is more appropriate, convenient or even necessary to use one of the semi-automatic modes.

I also recommend you forget the fully-automatic mode, as you'll have the least control, and such a mode defeats one of the main benefits of SLR cameras.

Practice with manual mode and increase your competency; but if you're shooting something dynamic and cannot really afford to miss the shot, use the most appropriate semi-automatic exposure mode. When the stakes are not high, you can work with manual mode and not risk disappointment if you don't land the shot.

[ricktas]

if you have trouble with determining the right settings for a given situation using full manual, the semi manual modes can come in very handy. Say you are using full manual and your priority is to get a shallow depth of field, so you are using aperture 2.8 or 4 etc, but the photos are over-exposing. Swap to Av mode (aperture mode) set your camera to f2/8 or f4 (the one you want to use) and take a photo. Let the camera determine the shutter speed etc. Then use the LCD to review that photo and see what settings the camera chose to get a 'good exposure'. Now go back to full manual and with your aperture set to your chosen one fr2.8, f4 etc, set your shutter speed based on what the camera chose in the semi-auto mode. That way you use the camera as a learning tool, to help you with choosing the right settings when in a full manual mode.

Hope that makes sense.

[alsocass]

Thank you. Both those responses made excellent sense.

I will keep on using manual while I learn, but I will not be afraid to use semi-auto when I need to.

I also love the idea of using semi-auto to learn what settings would work well.

[Lance B]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using the so-called "auto" modes because, in reality, they are no more "Auto" than the "Manual" mode. Why, I hear you ask? Simple, the camera's meter in manual mode still advises which is the "correct" exposure for a particular scene when you choose a certain aperture, shutter (and ISO) combination. This is indicated by the meter in your camera's viewfinder where it will show on a bar graph, or some other depiction of correct exposure according to the camera's meter. The thing is, if you are using Aperture priority, then the camera will automatically select the suppsed correct shutter speed according to this very same meter, so whether you select it, as in Manual mode, or the camera selects it, as in Aperture Priority mode, is actually a moot point as the result will be exactly the same.

The beauty of auto modes is that it can save time as you only need to select one aspect of the triangle of exposure which is shutter, aperture and ISO (however, if we are to be strict there are only two aspects of exposure, shutter and aperture, but to achieve "correct" exposure, we need to think about ISO as well). I have probably taken close to 100,000 images in the last 8 years of digital photography and I can tell you I use mainly Aperture Priority in 99,000 of those shots! However, to adjust what the camera thinks is correct exposure, I do not resort to using the Manual Exposure option, but use "Exposure Compensation" method as I find this quicker and easier. I set the Aperture and then the camera sets the shutter speed automatically, but if I judge that the scene requires more or less exposure, I then use the "Exposure Compensation" dial to adjust the exposure accordingly to what I think is correct.

You can, of course, use Shutter Priority and then the camera will automatically set the Aperture to what it thinks is correct exposure, but this can be adjusted by using the "Exposure Compensation" dial just the same as in Aperture Priority mode.

The point is, in every "mode", you have complete control of the exposure you want just as if it were Manual mode. To recap, if you have set your ISO to a fixed ISO "speed":

* "Manual" mode, you select both Aperture and Shutter Speed, to gain correct exposure according to the camera's metering. If you need to alter exposure according to the lighting conditions, then you alter either the shutter speed or aperture.

* In "Aperture Priority" mode, you select the Aperture and to gain correct exposure the camera according to the camera's metering, automatically selects the Shutter speed. However, this is just tha same as if you selected it if you were in "Manual" mode because the camera's meter is still being used to obtain "correct" exposure. It's no different, it is just two ways to get to the same result. To adjust the exposure to suit the lighting conditions, you can then use "Exposure Compenstion" dial. You use Aperture Priority when you want to control Depth Of Field and the Shutter Speed is automatically adjusted to suit and I find it the most useful mode. When you adjust the Exposure Compensation dial, the Shutter Speed is further altered to suit the adjusted exposure and the Aperture stays as selected (within the range of the Apertures available on the lens) I rarely use "Manual" mode as I find it too cumbersome.

* In "Shutter Priority" mode, you select the Shutter Speed and to gain correct exposure the camera according to the camera's metering, automatically selects the Aperture. However, this is just tha same as if you selected it if you were in "Manual" mode because the camera's meter is still being used to obtain "correct" exposure. It's no different, it is just two ways to get to the same result. To adjust the exposure to suit the lighting conditions, you can then use "Exposure Compenstion" dial. You use Shutter Speed Priority when you need a certain shutter speed for freezing action or whatever. When you use the Exposure Compensation dial to alter exposure whilst in Shutter Priority mode, the Aperture is further alterd to suit your altered exposure and the Shutter Speed stays as selected (within the range of shutter speeds of the camera).

* There are other modes, like "Program", which selects both the Aperture and Shutter Speed according to the lighting level. However, you can alter one of these and the camera will automatically alter the other so as to keep correct exposure according to the camera's meter. So, you may have and aperture of f5.6 and a shutter speed of 1/200sec (at ISO100)as the Program default exposure, but may want to have more Depth of Field, so you alter the aperture to f8 and the camera willl then automatically change the shutter speed to 1/100sec.

* Some camera's even have another mode and that is "ISO" priority. You select the ISO and the camera sets the aperture and shutter accordingly. Same applies with the other modes, ie to alter what the camera belieces is correct exposure, just use "Exposure Compensation" to adjust exposure according to what you feel is correct.

Whatever mode you choose, you need to be comfortable with how it works and this generally comes down to how the buttons and dials are laid out in order for you to be able to alter then quickly and easily. I used to own Pentax cameras and now Nikon cameras, and for me, they are both easiest to use in Aperture Priority mode and use Exposure Compensation to alter the exposure to what I think is correct.

[Kieran]

There is another option that few talk about. Say for instance you want to take shots of the kids playing under the sprinkler in the backyard and clouds are causing constant changes to the light. You want to set the f-stop at, lets say, f4 to keep the ugly fence in the background out of focus. You also want to have the shutter speed at 1/1000 to freeze the water drops as they bounce off the kids faces. Set the last point of the light triangle to auto. That is your ISO. If the ISO stays fairly low (less than ISO1600) the quality of the images will still be good as long as the shots aren't under exposed and you can reduce the noise on the computer later anyway. The important thing is that you get the shutter speed you want and the depth of field you want. A little bit of noise is always better than blurred images or images with too narrow or too deep a depth of field. I have used this when taking shots of the kids playing sport on days when the light is constantly changing. Night games with constant light I use full manual. I am learning also and find that having one less thing to consider before taking the shot invaluable, particularly when the subjects are in constant motion.

[fillum]

I think your experience here is fairly common Cass. Generally speaking, it seems to me that beginners often move to manual mode (as "serious" photographers don't use auto :)) - which is fine, but I think many see shooting in "M" mode as an end in itself rather than what it really is which is just a means to an end. The modes themselves don't really matter that much, it's the values (aperture, shutter-speed, ISO) that are important. So for example if your scene calls for 1/250 and f/8 at ISO 100, it doesn't really matter which mode you use to get those values. The point of modes is that in specific shooting situations a certain mode will make it simpler to get your desired values.

I think people often get hung up on the exposure modes whereas I think what's more important is understanding metering. If you understand:
- how the camera's meter works (in general terms)
- how each of your camera's metering modes (evaluative/matrix, centre-weighted average, spot) works
- and (related to the previous point) what is actually being metered in each mode
then you'll never hit a situation that you won't be able to deal with (exposure wise). For example if you are taking a portrait in strongly backlit conditions it's more important to understand that you could take a spot reading off the subject's skin (and increase that reading by a stop) than which mode you are shooting in.

In certain situations I use auto ("P") mode, although most of my shots are taken in Av/aperture-priority. I sometimes use M/manual mostly for still-life type stuff, rarely for anything moving (unless it's light trails). Don't think I've ever used Tv/shutter-priority.

Some of this stuff can be quite confusing initially so don't be too concerned if that's how you are finding it. It will fall into place.


Cheers.

[I @ M]

I think people often get hung up on the exposure modes whereas I think what's more important is understanding metering. If you understand:
- how the camera's meter works (in general terms)
- how each of your camera's metering modes (evaluative/matrix, centre-weighted average, spot) works
- and (related to the previous point) what is actually being metered in each mode
then you'll never hit a situation that you won't be able to deal with (exposure wise). For example if you are taking a portrait in strongly backlit conditions it's more important to understand that you could take a spot reading off the subject's skin (and increase that reading by a stop) than which mode you are shooting in.

Extremely well put. :th3:

There is a time and a place for all modes ( possible exception of full auto ) and I would look upon the choice of the appropriate mode as being heavily subject and light condition dependent but as Phil wrote above, in order to know which mode to use you really must have a good understanding of of how your camera works and which metering mode is going to give you the results that you seek.

[ricktas]

Also to add. Using the 'modes' is good as you are learning as it helps you understand how the exposure triangle works (Aperture, iso, shutterspeed), because using the auto modes, even semi auto, gets you a 'correct' exposure. However, creative and good photography is often not about a correct exposure and the very fact the photographer has deviated from a 'correct' (as per what the camera thinks is correct) exposure is the very reason the resultant photo gets the WOW factor.

Understanding the exposure triangle is necessary, but learning how and when to deviate from it, is when you start to get wonderfully creative photographic results. So do not be afraid to use the modes to learn, but also do not be afraid to ignore the settings that the auto-modes give and once you feel comfortable start deviating from them. To do this effectively you still need to understand how the exposure triangle works and what changing the values for each does, so that when you want to get creative, you know how and which one to alter to get the result you have planned in your head.

As a beginner, soak up all the knowledge you can get, and then one day soon, it will click, and then you will be ready to think 'ok the camera says I need a shutter speed of 1/200th second, but I want a shutter speed of 1/1000th second, and you will know what is needed to compensate with the other settings to get the result.

Don't try and learn everything at once, learn one thing, get a good understanding of it, then learn something new and add the two together, then learn a third and combine that with the knowledge you have of the first two. Slowly build up your knowledge and skills and you will be taking better photos sooner, rather than later.

[alsocass]

I think your experience here is fairly common Cass. Generally speaking, it seems to me that beginners often move to manual mode (as "serious" photographers don't use auto :)) - which is fine, but I think many see shooting in "M" mode as an end in itself rather than what it really is which is just a means to an end. The modes themselves don't really matter that much, it's the values (aperture, shutter-speed, ISO) that are important. So for example if your scene calls for 1/250 and f/8 at ISO 100, it doesn't really matter which mode you use to get those values. The point of modes is that in specific shooting situations a certain mode will make it simpler to get your desired values.
Cheers.

This makes a whole heap of sense. Thank you for the explanation.

[William W]

I think people often get hung up on the exposure modes whereas I think what's more important is understanding metering. If you understand:
- how the camera's meter works (in general terms)
- how each of your camera's metering modes (evaluative/matrix, centre-weighted average, spot) works
- and (related to the previous point) what is actually being metered in each mode
then you'll never hit a situation that you won't be able to deal with (exposure wise).

+2.
I agree 100%

***

Also - (shooting in available light), understand that the Photographer has just as much control over the exposure if the Camera Mode is: 'P Mode'; 'Tv Mode' or 'Av Mode', as if the Camera were in 'M Mode' - it is just with those three automatic modes, the camera's TTL Meter makes the first choice of the exposure - but the Photographer can always manually over ride that choice.

So, it is my view, that once one fully understands the TTL metering of the camera - and then firstly selects the best METERING MODE - then the choice of CAMERA MODE (i.e.: Av; Tv; P or M.) is predicated upon what is the EASIEST and MOST SUITABLE to:


capture the shot(s) quickly and efficiently
make any exposure adjustment(s) quickly and efficiently


WW

[old dog]

well said by all above. Plenty of advice Cass. I bought `Understanding Expodure` by Bryan Petersen. A good informative read. Not expensive either.

[alsocass]

Yes I found him on YouTube last year and ended up buying two of his books via kindle. (field guide and understanding exposure). I finished the first and am about a third of the way through the second.

[ameerat42]

Cass. I don't want to add anything to this already good info, but somewhere up above there was mention of "The Exposure Triangle".
Here is the link for that, in the Library:
http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showlibrary.php?title=New_To_Photography:The_Exposure_Triangle_-_Shutter_Speed_Aperture_ISO_Sensitivity

I will now just give a mild opinion: Manual Mode, as such, is not all that hard at all.

Am.

[Kaktus]

alsocass - I would like to thank you for posing this question :th3: as I would not have been able to articulated it so clearly :o.

The answers/solutions that where provided are excellent reading material for me, so I have bookmarked this thread for future easy reference.

[Mark L]

Here's some more reading for you Cass (courtesy of AP) ...http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?13627-What-mode-do-you-use-most
Though, click on view result (or whatever it is) for the poll at the start of the thread to get quick idea of what we use.

[fess67]

I agree with William. Choose the mode that suits you and the situation and then 'overide' the camera to what you want. An easy example is to us AV mode to control depth of field for a protrait, then use +/- EV to lighten / darken the image to your preference. AV is a 'manual' mode just as much as M is.

Have fun playing.

[arthurking83]

+3 on fillums reply.

Understanding the metering system is the initial priority, and once this is understood properly, then your choice of exposure mode will become more clear to you, and you'll also find that you will choose the correct mode for the right situation ... as opposed to manual mode for the sake of getting out of Auto!


Also be aware that some camera's metering systems operate differently to other brands.
So, if a Nikon owner tells you to learn to use spot metering for greater accuracy and consistency of exposure in certain situations, be aware that the experience they have with their gear could differ from how your gear may operate.

Also note that as you move up the camera model tree in a particular brand(in your case Canon), you may find that the upper end models may also differ in the way their metering systems operate compared with the lower end more consumer orientated models.

In fact, some metering modes operate differently based upon the lens mounted on the camera .. the same camera, just using a different lens!

The point being, as already said, you should get to know how the metering system operates on YOUR camera. Understand it's limitations and take it from there.
Once you have worked out what the meter indicator is telling you about the scene, and once you've figured out how to set the camera up to expose a scene .. the exposure mode you choose to set will come more naturally.


On the topic of exposure compensation:
I'm not sure on how your camera works, but some cameras have a feature called easy exposure compensation.
One thing I hate using is the exposure compensation button to set exposure compensation, and I prefer to use easy compensation.
Basically, this is what makes the semi auto exposure modes more manual than auto.
Easy compensation is the situation where your camera will have two separate controls for shutter and aperture values.
If set to a mode that controls one of those two variables, easy compensation will allow you to alter the other variable to set the exposure required for a given moment.
The advantage is that this is a quicker method for setting of exposure using a single control, rather than the need to use two controls to set exposure compensation which may take a few seconds to set .. where you may miss a particular moment.


even tho you allow the camera to determine the exposure automatically, you are the one making the decision as to exactly how the bright or dark exposure is to be set.


the metering mode(spot/evaluative/centre weighted), the use of exposure compensation(+-Ev) and the exposure mode(Tv/Av/M/P) all work hand in hand to allow you to speed up your reaction time to adjust for variability.
In a situation where light is rapidly changing, being fluent with these primary operations will significantly increase your success rate.

FWIW: I use Aperture Priority 99.999% of the time, Manual mode a few times, Shutter priority two or three times ...... and Program mode once!

[Kym]

FWIW: I use Aperture Priority 99.999% of the time, Manual mode a few times, Shutter priority two or three times ...... and Program mode once!

A long running poll will help.... www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?13627-What-mode-do-you-use-most

I use Av for most situations (~95%), I use Manual for night work (long exposure), and most tripod set shots.

[arthurking83]

An interesting(and slightly left field) point about using manual.

I generally use aperture priority for most of my landscape shots(as they're usually taken in variable light conditions, and I spot meter on a specific point that I want exposed in a particular manner, but in some instances I use to set the camera up in Manual mode because I couldn't cover up the eyepiece.
If you use a semi auto exposure mode and don't cover the viewfinder to stop stray light from entering it affects the meter's reading, and hence the exposure required. In general more(or unwanted) light would enter through the viewfinder, and affect the exposure to the point that the image turned out darker than expected. But this effect wasn't consistent and some images would expose brighter, or darker again .... the impact of an unprotected viewfinder was unpredictable on the final exposure. The general idea is that as the camera type(being a DSLR) implies that you have your eye at the viewfinder, which stops stray light from entering through the viewfinder piece.
Note that using Live View mode doesn't produce the same effect.

Since getting the D800 tho, I've used manual even less now than I used to (in percentage terms) than with the D300. D800 has a fantastic, quick and easy to use viewfinder shutter. D300 doesn't.
With the D300, my various methods of covering the viewfinder could have been simply holding my hand over the eye piece, using a cloth over it, or the supplied plastic cover ... of which I've now lost two.
If that wouldn't work, I'd then revert to using manual mode as my last resort. But this viewfinder shutter is one of my favourite and most used features of this camera body :th3:

[Allie]

At the local camera club a few people have suggested using auto mode to see what the camera thinks is the correct settings and then use the manual (or another) mode to play around with those settings to get what you want. I try to use Aperture priority mostly but for hand held shots the shutter speed is often too slow for me to avoid camera shake so that's when I try the other settings - I'm not ashamed to use auto if I am not getting any worthwhile shots when choosing the settings myself - a whole memory card full of useless shots is not the reason I got a camera for in the first place.

[arthurking83]

At the local camera club a few people have suggested using auto mode to see what the camera thinks is the correct settings and then .......

Be 100% sure and specific on what exact definition this Auto mode has.

All cameras have differing meanings on the term Auto mode.

As an example, Auto mode on a D7000 may imply one of the auto scene modes such as sports or portrait mode ... or it may imply an auto exposure mode such as Shutter priority or Aperture priority mode.

Note that some camera's only 'auto mode' setting can be limited to the more advanced auto xposure modes(Shutter/Aperture/etc) as they don't have pre programmed auto scene modes at all!

So when people refer to 'auto mode', they should try be more specific describe it either as Auto Scene mode, or semi auto or Auto Exposure mode.

Did these local camera club folk mean Exposure mode, or Scene mode? I'd be surprised if they recommended a Scene mode to begin with!

[William]

I use Manual Mode 100% of the time , Maybe because thats the way I was taught in the days of film camera's , I do find that if I try and use TV ( I like certain shutter speeds for water movement) in the mornings for Sunrises and water shots that the camera's metering system always over exposes to my liking, I always shoot under a little , I can recover shadows and midtones , But not blown highlights in the sky , But I do use ND Grad filters all the time so I find just setting the ISO and aperture (And leaving it) and just adjusting the shutter speed works for me , Same with the Surfing action shots set Aperture (f7.1/f8) and ISO according to the light and just change the shutter by one or to stops up and down working off the Histogram to check, I have used TV at surfing comps when I got lazy on an all day shoot in the sun , Maybe it's what I shoot , If things were static I would probably shoot in AV or TV depending on the circumstances , AV or TV sounds like a good place to start when learning, I do agree , Just my $2 worth after watching this thread for a few days - Cheers Guys , Bill :2smile:

[William W]

On that side topic - there are two main usage reasons, for the VIEWFINDER EYEPIECE COVER which comes with (most) cameras and is attached to the camera strap.

The first is, as described above, to stop extraneous light affecting the TTL Metering.
The second is for long exposures to stop extraneous light affecting the image.

WW

[ricktas]

On that side topic - there are two main usage reasons, for the VIEWFINDER EYEPIECE COVER which comes with (most) cameras and is attached to the camera strap.

The first is, as described above, to stop extraneous light affecting the TTL Metering.
The second is for long exposures to stop extraneous light affecting the image.

WW

Off-topic a bit, but the newer Nikons come with a switch that slides a small shutter down over the viewfinder to block the light, so now the cover is built into the camera.

[William W]

Be 100% sure and specific on what exact definition this Auto mode has.

. . . So when people refer to 'auto mode', they should try be more specific describe it . . .

+1

WW

- - - Updated - - -


Off-topic a bit, but the newer Nikons come with a switch that slides a small shutter down over the viewfinder to block the light, so now the cover is built into the camera.

Thanks, I didn't know that! Good idea, I think?
Those little rubber covers are easy to lose!

When shooting "from the hip" or "overhead doorstop style" - I use the ball of the thumb of my shooting hand, to cover the viewfinder.



WW

[arthurking83]

Strap??? what strap. Haven't used a strap in years(damn annoyances that they are :p)

Yeah, as Rick said, the round eyepiece Nikon's .. ie. D2, D3, D4, D700 and D800 all have a built in viewfinder shutter.

I can't imagine tho how on a long exposure light leakage would become an issue. Once the mirror is up(on a DSLR of course), it completes the seal to the sensor plane, so no light should enter into the mirror box from above.
Although if you rely on Auto Exposure mode, irrespective of the time taken for the exposure, any extraneous light entering in through the viewfinder will affect correct exposure, as the light meter internals are all up inside the viewfinder area. I dare say that the longer the expected exposure, then the more effect that light entering in through the viewfinder will have on the exposure.

[Papou]

Mostly manual mode for me except lighting is consistently changing then it Av which saves me chasing my tail:)..

[William W]

Strap??? what strap. Haven't used a strap in years(damn annoyances that they are )

haha!




I can't imagine tho how on a long exposure light leakage would become an issue. Once the mirror is up(on a DSLR of course), it completes the seal to the sensor plane, so no light should enter into the mirror box from above.



Yes, that's the point.
Once the mirror is up it 'should' complete the seal.
The seal wears, with all that flapping.
For long exposures, especially (for example) when using dense ND filters (think bright sunny day at beach - want waves soft and smooth) - best practice is to use the Viewfinder Eyepiece Cover for the reasons outlined above.

WW

[Wynny]

Relative newby having only started taking photography seriously for about 12 months, but probably use Manual about 50% and Av the other 50%. However I am finding that my Manual use is steadily increasing and I have shot my most satisfying photos in Manual.

Also must admit that I have blown a few photos when my brain was in Av but the camera was in Manual, hence the appropriate exposure adjustments weren't made. These Alzheimer's moments should reduce as Manual takes over.

[Lynqld]

Thanks Cass for initiating this thread.

A very interesting read as I am feeling quite overwhelmed by everything on my camera. (Only had it for a couple of weeks.)

[Lurchorama]

I'm such a lazy sod that I pretty much live in Av mode (generally compensated down at least one stop) only switching to manual if I can't quite get it right in Av.
And even then I use the 'Green button' a lot when in manual.

[William]

I'm such a lazy sod that I pretty much live in Av mode (generally compensated down at least one stop) only switching to manual if I can't quite get it right in Av.
And even then I use the 'Green button' a lot when in manual.


Whats the "Green Button" in manual on a Pentax ?, The Green mark on the shooting mode dial on a Canon is "Full Auto"
:confused013

[Lurchorama]

This gives it better than I can explain:
http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com.au/2007/01/easter-egg-number-two-pentaxs-green.html


This is where the Green Button comes in. With the K10D in manual, it works as awkwardly as any other dual-control-wheel DSLR manual exposure system, until you invoke the magic green button. If you point at a possible picture and hit the Green Button, the camera momentarily reverts to Program mode and sets the shutter and f-stop as it would in program. Then it lets go and you have full control with the rear wheel running the f/stop and the front wheel running the shutter speed. (For some reason this is still counter-intuitive to me, though the Olympus E-1 I’ve used for several years also sets the wheels this way in manual. If I had my way I’d have the front wheel do the aperture and the rear wheel do the shutter.) Now, instead of overriding auto exposure for a particular framing, you dial in some up and down marks on the in-finder exposure scale to set an absolute exposure for this particular scene. If there’s time, use the Digital Previw to get RGB histograms to review, tweak as needed, then go ahead and shoot any framing changes you want without constantly fiddling to compensate for whatever error the automation would introduce with each new framing.

This is seriously cool. I don’t think it’s as good a manual system as classic shutter speed and f-stop controls, but it’s a really imaginative workaround that I’m finding quite useful.

Nutshell version: whilst in 'manual', it throws the camera into P mode for a sec to get a baseline

[alsocass]

Since starting this thread I switched over to predominantly using Av mode. It has definetly changed how/what I am learning.

I can take better photos more quickly because I do waste copius amounts of time fiddling with all the dials. Whether that is good in the long run, I am not sure, but it is a good thing for now.

[arthurking83]

It's good .. trust me it's good.

What you should be focusing on(if you pardon the pun) is the metering, as already mentioned.
There's no prize given simply because you shot in full manual mode.
You don't become the elite of the elite simply because you shoot in manual mode.

Manual mode has a purpose ... and it has nothing to do with teaching the operator a good lesson.

What's far more important is to understand the metering, understand how the metering types all work, working out which one is best suited(either to your workflow, or preference) and going on from there.
Read the lighting requirement of the scene ahead of taking the exposure, so that the exposure is about as good as you can get from the camera.

Good to see that Av mode is working OK for 'ya so far.

[Kym]

The idea is to use the mode most appropriate to what you are shooting.
Eg. Av for birds/wildlife/sports (i.e. fast moving), and Manual for setup (tripod) shots like landscape or formal portraits.

BUT! The NTP learning plan is about learning in small easy to understand steps.
Which is why it starts in full auto and concentrates on composure, then Av etc.
Don't rush it. Get composition right first, then add Depth of Field (3d control if you will), and then when confident move on.

[extraball]

I started on auto, quickly to AV, now use manual. I reckon that manual forces me to learn more, allthought I could be wrong! I did a short switch-back to AV this week, and found that the results were no better, infact they were worse. Speaking of metering.......this is where I could be falling down.

[alsocass]

I started on auto, quickly to AV, now use manual. I reckon that manual forces me to learn more, allthought I could be wrong! I did a short switch-back to AV this week, and found that the results were no better, infact they were worse. Speaking of metering.......this is where I could be falling down.

I agree. I feel like Av is a slightly better form of auto. I focus on Depth of Field (choosing the aperture) but pay no heed to the meter or the shutterspeed. But, as mentioned above, I feel like Av mode lets me focus on composition (including depth of field), and not worry about the other stuff. So I can see how that fits into a learning journey.

[Fedgrub]

I use manual for my macro work because I need ultimate control - but Av is my second most used choice as it does everything I need to in other situations.

[Mary Anne]

I am a Macro shoot and another one who only uses Manual, for me there is no other way..

[Dylan & Marianne]

I might just add that alot of people who shoot in aperture or TV mode, kind of are shooting in manual mode.
So whether you want to use the +- EV to change shutter speeds in aperture mode or switch over to manual mode and manually change the shutter speed, that's a choice that's yours.
I do use full manual just because I want to know exactly what I'm doing ( and no I don't need to make a song and dance about it!)
As an example, in a given seascape composition, I might need a very large depth of field (F16) if a foreground rock is close to the camera and I might not want the camera to pick my shutter speed because the way the water movement, I specifically want 0.3 seconds. The variable I will alter therefore , is my iso (to an acceptable upper limit) , or alter my filter setup to suit the scene, or alter my shooting to take bracketed images or focus stacked images.

The risk of taking the shot in AV mode is that the camera selects the shutter speed required at a given iso, OR, it selects the iso and I end up with a shutter speed I don't want. (might pick 1 second for instance)
The risk of taking the shot in TV mode is that the camera selects the aperture required at a given iso which may be too narrow for what I need. (might choose F2.8 iso 100 when I know I can go up to iso 800 on my setup with clean images)
The risk of taking the shot in fully auto mode is that I have no control of the depth of field /shutter speed combo to achieve the same look.

There are many other such scenarios where full manual is of benefit but I think you're much better off knowing the situations where it is less appropriate as well , especially when learning the ropes.

[William]

Exactly my situation as well Dylan, And for all the same reasons :th3:

[John Witte]

There is a need for both modes. Auto is handy for off the cuff shots where things happen all of a sudden. Manual mode is handy where time allows to set up the shot. Have used both and my camera is set on auto and when needed manual.

[balwoges]

Experiment with both modes, you will soon find out what is best for you

[Jad]

Seeing that you are fairly new to photography I would suggest that you keep using the manual mode as much as possible. You will learn your camera and how to determine the proper exposure with the various settings. If you want to be totally automatic then a good point and shoot will fill your needs. I take 98% of my pictures in manual mode. The reason being, is that I use my digital SLR much like I did my large format view camera. I use a tripod, lock up the mirror, use a cable release, ect. My Canon 5D11 has several custom functions that I have programed to auto for a hand held use when doing street photography or pictures of m grandkids. It all really depends on the type of photography you want to do. Learning your camera in manual will give you confidence in how to use your equipment and knowing camera settings

[Retro]

Quite a topical thread given I'm just a week into my dSLR and learning my way around the camera. Trial and error (more the latter) have proven my greatest teacher as a venture to the beach on Saturday evidenced. There I was enjoying the freedom of manual mode, firing away with reckless enjoyment at the thought of creating magnificent works of art only to find of the 160+ pictures I took only two were decent. And they were the ones I shot in auto mode.

Dejected yet spurred on I examined my faults: High aperture setting fort hat must have DoF, slow ISO, med/fast shutter speeds and an ND filter on a cloudy day resulted in some dark, moody pictures (utter rubbish in other words). I've now started with something mentioned earlier in this thread: Shoot one or two shots with auto and get an idea. Then add a bit of personal magic and 'compose'; I've found with practice (another 100+shots) I can get a picture 'better' than the auto results.

And as I read and learn more and more about my camera through here and a number of other resources (print and web) I think in a month or so I may be able to post a picture or two up here. :)

[William]

How Ya going Retro, Why not post a shot in the Beginners CC forum, You might get a surprise with all the help you will recieve , Your on the right track though, You just have to get a handle on the triangle , Aperture, ISO and shutter , But you are already headed in the right direction :th3:

[Mark L]

^ what William said.
It's good to read and take photos and think you are learning (which, no doubt you are). Though posting some photos for feedback will help you a lot.
"How could I do this better?' or " I was reasonably happy with this. What do you think?"

[Retro]

Yep...dropped my first photo in the Beginner's section for commenting. And, as I get the time and think that I've got something worth viewing I'll continue to place a few more here for your collective thoughts and wisdom. :)

I will say post processing will be extremely light on my pictures. I do have Photoshop Elements but asides from the 'Auto' adjustments offered in the 'Quick' panel I don't go much further. One thing at a time...learn to re-shoot pictures then learn post processing.

[Speedway]

It must be remembered that AV & TV are NOT auto, they are manual modes. If I used full manual when shooting motor sport or any other action for that matter I wouldn't get many shots as by the time you set the camera the moment has gone. The same goes for wildlife and other animals not in a fully controlled environment. Landscape and posed shots are a different story as you have time to adjust your camera to slight changes and you can get a number of shots of the same thing to test your settings. I started in full manual then progressed to AV and TV modes which I still use most of the time. I do use full manual but only rarely.

[William W]

In Canon (as one example and other manufacturers are similar) the full nomenclature is:


Program AE
Aperture Priority AE
Shutter Priority AE


These are then abbreviated to: “P”; “Av” and “Tv” on the Mode Dial Selector.

The “AE” in the camera mode’s name, is an abbreviation of “Automatic Exposure”.

And in these three camera Modes (P, Tv an Av) there is indeed a level of automatic functionality, which is NOT present in M (Manual) Mode.

WW

[ricktas]

It must be remembered that AV & TV are NOT auto, they are manual modes. If I used full manual when shooting motor sport or any other action for that matter I wouldn't get many shots as by the time you set the camera the moment has gone. The same goes for wildlife and other animals not in a fully controlled environment. Landscape and posed shots are a different story as you have time to adjust your camera to slight changes and you can get a number of shots of the same thing to test your settings. I started in full manual then progressed to AV and TV modes which I still use most of the time. I do use full manual but only rarely.

some see them as semi manual modes, whilst others refer to them as semi auto modes. spose it's just a matter of semantics. in the end people can use auto, semi auto manual, or manual mode. we keep seeing it is the photo that matters, discussed across threads and forums. a good photo is just that, no matter how it was taken. As long as the photographer knows their modes and understands how they work, they should be free to use whatever they want to