View Full Version : D600
Film Street
13-09-2012, 1:24pm
http://mynikonlife.com.au/pro/pro-news/announcing-the-new-d600
arthurking83
13-09-2012, 1:32pm
Oh well!
Looks like a D800 it's then(for me).
It's more of a D7000 level camera rather than a replacement for the D300s, and with that it has too many compromises(connectivity and performance) for an upper end DSLR.
5.5fps is too slow(7 or 8fps for the D7K and D300), non inclusion of the Nikon 10 pin connector(or any new variant on that) ... twin SD card slots etc.
It'd almost certainly make a decent general camera, say for landscapes or portraits, but not enough to be an all rounder or a sportcentric(fast paced shooting) camera when needed.
That leaves Nikon with a large hole in their lineup between the fastish D7000 to the D4 for any sports orientated photographer.
I think for many others, this may be a usable body.
I was impatient and purchased the D800 in June which I'm very pleased with. Still, the D600 appears to be $1,000 cheaper, which is interesting. Noticeable differences between the two seem to be 39 v 51 AF, 5.5 v 4 fps (which seems rather insignificant) the resolution and 1/4000 v 1/8000.
Will be interesting to see how it goes.
JM Tran
13-09-2012, 1:50pm
This fills a good niche market for ppl like myself who can see its popularity as a travel camera/PJ work where size and weight is a factor, but still maintain full frame etc. Then again, I'd rather carry the D4 or D800 anyway.
It will have wireless tethering ( image review and camera operation ) to android and iOS devices using a little transmitter a la d3200 which is a winning feature and somewhat negates a 10 pin connector if you have one of those devices
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arthurking83
13-09-2012, 2:05pm
It will have wireless tethering ( image review and camera operation ) to android and iOS devices using a little transmitter a la d3200 which is a winning feature and somewhat negates a 10 pin connector if you have one of those devices
.....
That's all well and good, but have you ever tried to (easily and quickly) tried to handle a camera body with a 3" cancerous growth hanging off to one side?
Not good for easy use, and had they placed the connector any place else than to the usual side, I'd have considered a wholesale swap to a new system of connectivity.
Try to handle a D7000 or D90 with a GPS, or remote trigger still attached to it.
Impossible to mount a (good quality) L bracket to a body such as this AND attach peripherals that require side mounted connections ... etc, etc.
gimme a 10pin connector any day compared to this (awkward) solution.
While I accept that the offerings are there, the probability of these connector types causing issues is too high for someone that uses them often or moves around a lot.
Film Street
13-09-2012, 2:15pm
Looks more like the size of an F80 which is great.
That's all well and good, but have you ever tried to (easily and quickly) tried to handle a camera body with a 3" cancerous growth hanging off to one side?
Not good for easy use, and had they placed the connector any place else than to the usual side, I'd have considered a wholesale swap to a new system of connectivity.
Try to handle a D7000 or D90 with a GPS, or remote trigger still attached to it.
Impossible to mount a (good quality) L bracket to a body such as this AND attach peripherals that require side mounted connections ... etc, etc.
gimme a 10pin connector any day compared to this (awkward) solution.
While I accept that the offerings are there, the probability of these connector types causing issues is too high for someone that uses them often or moves around a lot.
Yes not a perfect solution by any stretch, and individuals will need to evaluate their priorities, but live view and critical focusing on a 9 inch retina display is going to be good, not to mention instant review and the ability to do a quick on the spot edit ( with any number of good apps ) for a client or yourself, will be a selling point for me
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According to Petapixel (http://www.petapixel.com/2012/09/12/nikon-unveils-the-d600-its-portable-and-affordable-full-frame-dslr/#more-73768) the price will be US$2,100 when it's officially announced. :confused013
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5.5fps is too slow(7 or 8fps for the D7K and D300), non inclusion of the Nikon 10 pin connector(or any new variant on that) ... twin SD card slots etc.
It'd almost certainly make a decent general camera, say for landscapes or portraits, but not enough to be an all rounder or a sportcentric(fast paced shooting) camera when needed.
There is more to be concerned about than this, Arthur. The max sync speed of 1/200th is a major problem for strobists as well. That's a critical 1/3rd stop down on the capability of the D7000, so portraits in ambient become problematic. Not that I could afford to move to full frame anyway, unless it had been at the rumoured sub-$2k level. It's clearly a camera for the American consumer ... they need a big-a$$ed everything, including sensor, even if they can't tell you why! :Doh:
According to Petapixel (http://www.petapixel.com/2012/09/12/nikon-unveils-the-d600-its-portable-and-affordable-full-frame-dslr/#more-73768) the price will be US$2,100 when it's officially announced. :confused013
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There is more to be concerned about than this, Arthur. The max sync speed of 1/200th is a major problem for strobists as well. That's a critical 1/3rd stop down on the capability of the D7000, so portraits in ambient become problematic. Not that I could afford to move to full frame anyway, unless it had been at the rumoured sub-$2k level. It's clearly a camera for the American consumer ... they need a big-a$$ed everything, including sensor, even if they can't tell you why! :Doh:
Going by recent releases I reckon they will start appearing at around $2400.00 locally at the stores that set their retail level sensibly and a few hundred more at the likes of Teds and the other blatant gougers.
Flash Synch speed is easily taken care of with the use of the various reliable triggers ( that any strobist should own :rolleyes: ) which integrate with all other Nikon models and is not a great concern really
Lance B
13-09-2012, 4:31pm
This fills a good niche market for ppl like myself who can see its popularity as a travel camera/PJ work where size and weight is a factor, but still maintain full frame etc.
Size and weight compared to what? If you are comparing it to the D800 it is only minimally smaller and lighter.
D800 = 900gms - 146 x 123 x 82 mm
D600 = 760gms - 141 x 113 x 82 mm
The D600 is only 140gms lighter and 5mm less wide and 10mm less in height.
Then again, I'd rather carry the D4 or D800 anyway.
I would still rather use the D800 as well, the D600 holds no interest to me whatsoever.
This fills a good niche market for ppl like myself who can see its popularity as a travel camera/PJ work where size and weight is a factor, but still maintain full frame etc.
I think the Photojournalists that can't afford a Leica will probably be giving the new Sony RX1 a pretty close look ... full frame, fixed (decent 35mm) lens and sub-$3k. I doubt any of them are interested in scene modes, or any of the other bells and whistles Nikon have crammed into the D600. JMHO of course.
arthurking83
13-09-2012, 4:57pm
......
I would still rather use the D800 as well, the D600 holds no interest to me whatsoever.
I'd still be interested personally if the sensor can deliver better quality in some way.
You would expect a newer sensor technology to improve upon an older tech sensor, so in the situation where the D600 provides higher quality images in some instances when compared to a D800, then it may be an option in addition to a D800.
A D700 ised D600 would have been nice.
I'm still left wondering if this is a replacement for the traditional D300 market segment, or another push by Nikon to create a new market niche/segment?
(actually this wouldn't be a new market segment, as Sony provided that with the A850).
It seems that the 5.5 fps may be a bandwidth limitation of the sensor, as Sony's A99 has a 6fps limit.
Either way, if this is to be considered a replacement for the D300, then it's a slight backward step in terms of performance.
As opposed to the traditional marketing tool of improving performance in one area even if this means stagnation in other areas.
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I think the Photojournalists that can't afford a Leica will probably be giving the new Sony RX1 a pretty close look.....
If you read the hype, it seems that Photojournalists are eschewing traditional photographic methods and all migrating to more modern tools like iPhones and Instagram! :p
JM Tran
13-09-2012, 5:04pm
Size and weight compared to what? If you are comparing it to the D800 it is only minimally smaller and lighter.
D800 = 900gms - 146 x 123 x 82 mm
D600 = 760gms - 141 x 113 x 82 mm
The D600 is only 140gms lighter and 5mm less wide and 10mm less in height.
I would still rather use the D800 as well, the D600 holds no interest to me whatsoever.
Size and weight when you are loaded down with other gear such as ballistics armour and other equipment dangling on your chest rig for combat PJs, or for myself when traveling very lightly for travel stories in remote areas, every gram counts in the long run. As Zollo suggested earlier, the connection to Android or iOS can be invaluable to those working on the fly through their phone and electronics too.
I think the Photojournalists that can't afford a Leica will probably be giving the new Sony RX1 a pretty close look ... full frame, fixed (decent 35mm) lens and sub-$3k. I doubt any of them are interested in scene modes, or any of the other bells and whistles Nikon have crammed into the D600. JMHO of course.
Havent met any travel photographers or combat correspondents who use Leica in a widespread role yet, Nikon and Canon are the main choices due to widespread availability and use and ability to share equipment with other colleagues and miscellaneous things. You can easily get access to Canikon stuff in Kandahar or Bagram airbase etc in Afghanistan and serviceable there by the tech dudes, not easy to get Leica replacements. Or in Sri Lanka in the highlands when I was there recently, but Canikon - easily. The Sony RX1 sounds great on paper, but the fixed lens is a limitation to some.
:rumour: It is all a smoke screen to cover the announcement of the true D300s replacement that will feature 16mp, all the build and control properties of the old model + offer fast frame rate, superb autofocus and metering qualities at a fair price for a DX body:/rumor:
:rumour: It is all a smoke screen to cover the announcement of the true D300s replacement that will feature 16mp, all the build and control properties of the old model + offer fast frame rate, superb autofocus and metering qualities at a fair price for a DX body:/rumor:
:lol: You spreading 'em or trying to start 'em, Andrew? :lol:
Size and weight when you are loaded down with other gear such as ballistics armour and other equipment dangling on your chest rig for combat PJs, or for myself when traveling very lightly for travel stories in remote areas, every gram counts in the long run.
Yep, 6 muesli bars (http://www.google.com.au/imgres?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=WPQ&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&biw=1440&bih=812&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnse&tbnid=sWsOgNhygQDnmM:&imgrefurl=http://www.foodforhealth.com.au/downloads.php&docid=aAPgT4iUGOMZOM&imgurl=http://www.foodforhealth.com.au/downloads/Muesli%252520Bar%252520range.jpg&w=1014&h=768&ei=l5RRUJ3TG-qiiAfXzYHgAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1141&vpy=359&dur=3364&hovh=195&hovw=258&tx=176&ty=98&sig=100390575711222193582&page=1&tbnh=133&tbnw=226&start=0&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:24,s:0,i:214) is life and death stuff.
JM Tran
13-09-2012, 5:14pm
Yep, 6 muesli bars (http://www.google.com.au/imgres?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=WPQ&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&biw=1440&bih=812&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnse&tbnid=sWsOgNhygQDnmM:&imgrefurl=http://www.foodforhealth.com.au/downloads.php&docid=aAPgT4iUGOMZOM&imgurl=http://www.foodforhealth.com.au/downloads/Muesli%252520Bar%252520range.jpg&w=1014&h=768&ei=l5RRUJ3TG-qiiAfXzYHgAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1141&vpy=359&dur=3364&hovh=195&hovw=258&tx=176&ty=98&sig=100390575711222193582&page=1&tbnh=133&tbnw=226&start=0&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:24,s:0,i:214) is life and death stuff.
Ever served before?
If you have, or had worked as a travel photographer, saving 500g to 1kg is a lot in the long run. You do realize a typical PJ has 2-3 cameras on the body at all times, not to mention carrying extra ammo and equipment for the troops even though they are meant to be non-combatants. Any weight saving without sacrificing quality and gear is a bonus. Not to mention those that travel light for work - carry on luggage these days at 7kg is nothing when you are trying to balance between equipment and living essentials - definitely an area which counts.
My point being, even though you might think ooohhh a saving weight total of 6 muesli bars might be nothing, but to us who run around for days or weeks on end, either in higher altitude or burdened down, every gram counts. Those that have been there, or doing it, knows this.
arthurking83
13-09-2012, 5:26pm
Andrew! you need a new muesli bar manufacturer .. that diff make it 1.5 bars for me, but I digress ......
:rumour: It is all a smoke screen to cover the announcement of the true D300s replacement that will feature 16mp, all the build and control properties of the old model + offer fast frame rate, superb autofocus and metering qualities at a fair price for a DX body:/rumor:
I heard that the real D300s replacement is a D600 based beast, will have 141grams of camo coloured polythermonuclearesin protective body coatings instead of the traditional Nikon leather
.... so it just ain't gunna cut it.
Ever served before?
As an waiter in the officers mess? No, you?
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Andrew! you need a new muesli bar manufacturer .. that diff make it 1.5 bars for me, but I digress ......
Sorry, I was always crap at maths. :confused013
JM Tran
13-09-2012, 5:30pm
As an waiter in the officers mess? No, you?
As an officer, Aus Infantry 04-07'. Read my edited response above. Thank you.
:rumour: It is all a smoke screen to cover the announcement of the true D300s replacement that will feature 16mp, all the build and control properties of the old model + offer fast frame rate, superb autofocus and metering qualities at a fair price for a DX body:/rumor:
What? Only 16 mpx? Thats it I'm switching
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Been there done that, I was also a grunt back in the 70's and carried a real MG ... M60 :D
A few grams made little difference, in fact I'd usually grab an extra B or C rat pack -yummo! :cool:
As for a few grams of camera? meh - wusses !!
JM Tran
13-09-2012, 6:00pm
Been there done that, I was also a grunt back in the 70's and carried a real MG ... M60 :D
A few grams made little difference, in fact I'd usually grab an extra B or C rat pack -yummo! :cool:
As for a few grams of camera? meh - wusses !!
We carry more gear now, and with an MG that jams less too! :D
As of mid this year, many US Marines are trialing fighting platoons with no designated machine guns, but a few heavy barreled rifles and more magazines, to increase accuracy and cut down on weight and ability to maneuver better during firefights. Im not sure what to make of that yet, only time will tell how effective it is in combat. Anyway, going off topic here.
Lance B
13-09-2012, 6:14pm
I'd still be interested personally if the sensor can deliver better quality in some way.
You would expect a newer sensor technology to improve upon an older tech sensor, so in the situation where the D600 provides higher quality images in some instances when compared to a D800, then it may be an option in addition to a D800.
I can pretty much guarantee that it won't be better than the D800 or D4. It might come near the D800 for DR and high ISO noise, but I still don't think it will be better.
A D700 ised D600 would have been nice.
I'm still left wondering if this is a replacement for the traditional D300 market segment, or another push by Nikon to create a new market niche/segment?
(actually this wouldn't be a new market segment, as Sony provided that with the A850).
It seems that the 5.5 fps may be a bandwidth limitation of the sensor, as Sony's A99 has a 6fps limit.
Either way, if this is to be considered a replacement for the D300, then it's a slight backward step in terms of performance.
As opposed to the traditional marketing tool of improving performance in one area even if this means stagnation in other areas.
I don't think it is a replacement for the D300 as that is a professional grade APS C camera, this is a consumer/prosumer grade FX camera, a first to my way of thinking. However, it really is a new market segment, the low end consumer FX camera.
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ricktas
13-09-2012, 6:15pm
WOW. All this from the release of a new camera. Anyone would think we on AP are solving the world's problems. IT IS JUST A CAMERA
JM Tran
13-09-2012, 6:17pm
WOW. All this from the release of a new camera. Anyone would think we on AP are solving the world's problems. IT IS JUST A CAMERA
We are just ecstatic at the release of a more affordable full frame camera!
Affordable FF = more wedding photographers appearing from nowhere.
:lol:
Hmmm.. $2100usd. Maybe I was too optimistic for a lower price.
It's a nice product but does very little for me I must say.
I don't really get why Nikon (and most other manufacturers) seem to think smaller must equal consumer.
And why can't wifi be in-built. Sony managed it in a NEX5R/6 sized body.
knumbnutz
13-09-2012, 6:58pm
It never ceases to amaze me that people can be so negative about everything that comes out.
When I was shooting Pentax people were really generally happy except for the small niggles but as things improved they got more vocal and cynical.
It seems when ever things get better and we have more choices we get grumpier. The stuffs as good as it has ever been but who'd know it.
Anyway, it is not a camera that interests me but for those that want a cheaper option than the D800 then I think this is a great camera.
I feel glad to have off loaded the D700 when i did.
I think there is still a D300s update still coming for a lot of reasons and its probably the "D400".
FPS, high iso, 16mp and importantly APSC for better FOV for sports.
Indeed the D600 is an interesting addition to Nikon line. Its a cheap FF with good basics but doesnt excel too much to corrupt the position of the D800.
Is too much of a good thing good ?
arthurking83
13-09-2012, 7:03pm
Hmmm.. $2100usd. Maybe I was too optimistic for a lower price.
.....
Wasn't the D300/300s listed at $1999 at release?
$2100 for an Fx camera sounds fairly reasonable, and there's no reason to think that this is not a D300 replacement... just as the D7k wasn't really a D90 replacement.
It's not always about the sensor size, it's about features performance levels, quality and build.
There's no reason to assume that one day Nikon may abandon the Dx format as well, meaning that you may well find a D3500 entry level DSLR, with an Fx format sensor @ 24Mp still for $799.
DSLR's will need to have a major advantage level over these pretender P&S's and mirrorless entries into the arena, that must surely be biting hard into their market share.
(remember that Dx lenses still work quite well on Fx sensor Nikon camera bodies!)
Not sure if my comments were negative or not but I think we should always be critical of products that are released :)
But seriously though it is a fantastic camera for its target audience.
All the 'should I go FF?' threads just got their answers. It's opened the FX market right up and will be a great seller for Nikon no doubt.
But the wireless connection thing though. I just think camera companies are dinosaurs when it comes to connectivity.
Re: price. I was just caught up in the rumour hype and the aggressive D800 pricing. But yea $2100 seem fair for FX.
knumbnutz
13-09-2012, 8:40pm
D600 versus D800: Specification highlights
24.3MP Full-frame CMOS sensor (compared to 36.3MP CMOS)
10.5MP DX-format crop mode (compared to 15.3MP)
39-point AF system with 9 cross-type AF points (compared to 51-points, with 15 cross-type)
No AF micro-adjust function (D800 allows micro-adjustment in +/-20-step increments)
Autofocus sensitivity down to -1EV (compared to -2EV)
Maximum 5.5fps continuous shooting in FX mode (compared to 4fps in FX mode)
2,016-pixel RGB TTL exposure metering sensor (compared to 91,000 pixels)
2x SD slots (compared to CF+SD)
No 'Power Aperture' aperture control during movie shooting (offered by D800 using Fn + Preview buttons)
Shutter rated to 150,000 cycles (compared to 200,000 cycles)
Magnesium-alloy top and rear, polycarbonate front-plate (D800 is full mag-alloy except flash housing)
USB 2.0 interface (compared to USB 3.0)
D600 versus D800: Specification highlights
24.3MP Full-frame CMOS sensor (compared to 36.3MP CMOS)
10.5MP DX-format crop mode (compared to 15.3MP)
39-point AF system with 9 cross-type AF points (compared to 51-points, with 15 cross-type)
No AF micro-adjust function (D800 allows micro-adjustment in +/-20-step increments)
Autofocus sensitivity down to -1EV (compared to -2EV)
Maximum 5.5fps continuous shooting in FX mode (compared to 4fps in FX mode)
2,016-pixel RGB TTL exposure metering sensor (compared to 91,000 pixels)
2x SD slots (compared to CF+SD)
No 'Power Aperture' aperture control during movie shooting (offered by D800 using Fn + Preview buttons)
Shutter rated to 150,000 cycles (compared to 200,000 cycles)
Magnesium-alloy top and rear, polycarbonate front-plate (D800 is full mag-alloy except flash housing)
USB 2.0 interface (compared to USB 3.0)
And THAT simply screams CONSUMER market, doesn't it?:Doh:
arthurking83
14-09-2012, 5:40am
I can pretty much guarantee that it won't be better than the D800 or D4. It might come near the D800 for DR and high ISO noise, but I still don't think it will be better.
......
DPR have some sample images up already in their D600 preview.
My suspicions are that it should just pip the D800 in terms of high ISO image quality, and possibly DR ... larger photosites, newer technology sensor and processing stream(ADC).... but we wait and see.
What seems weird is that Nikon are now using what appears to be a specialised sensor for the D800, and not some generic Sony sensor that any other manufacturer is going to have access too.
I doubt that the DPR sample images are truly indicative of the real ability of the D600, as the ISO6400 images seem to be in camera jpg renderings, and I doubt that Adobe have an ACR update for the D600 yet.
The current release/update of ViewNX2 doesn't list the D600 as one of the compatibility issue tweaks, and that version was released at the end of Aug.... so even Nikon's software(available to the public) doesn't yet support D600 files. So until we see the required software updates, we won't know how they compare.
D600 versus D800: Specification highlights
24.3MP Full-frame CMOS sensor (compared to 36.3MP CMOS)
10.5MP DX-format crop mode (compared to 15.3MP)
39-point AF system with 9 cross-type AF points (compared to 51-points, with 15 cross-type)
No AF micro-adjust function (D800 allows micro-adjustment in +/-20-step increments)
Autofocus sensitivity down to -1EV (compared to -2EV)
Maximum 5.5fps continuous shooting in FX mode (compared to 4fps in FX mode)
2,016-pixel RGB TTL exposure metering sensor (compared to 91,000 pixels)
2x SD slots (compared to CF+SD)
No 'Power Aperture' aperture control during movie shooting (offered by D800 using Fn + Preview buttons)
Shutter rated to 150,000 cycles (compared to 200,000 cycles)
Magnesium-alloy top and rear, polycarbonate front-plate (D800 is full mag-alloy except flash housing)
USB 2.0 interface (compared to USB 3.0)
And... shutter speed of 1/4000 (vs 1/8000) and flash sync of 1/200 (vs 1/250).
I think it would be a bad move for Nikon to make the D600 superior to the D800 in terms of low light and DR.. it should fill the gap between the D7000 and the D800.
Going by recent releases I reckon they will start appearing at around $2400.00 locally at the stores that set their retail level sensibly and a few hundred more at the likes of Teds and the other blatant gougers.
Prices seem to be on the net and I was close with my guesstimate.
ECS = $2450
Teds #1 price gouger in Aus = $2699.00
Film Street
14-09-2012, 9:33am
Note to self - must stop mentally buying cameras :2singl:
Note to self - must stop mentally buying cameras :2singl:
Good move. :th3:
More money for lenses that way. :rolleyes:
The_Scroop
14-09-2012, 11:36am
Since selling my D3 I've been holding trying to work out what to do. D700 would feel like a downgrade to me, D800 is more than I need and the D7000 would feel like a step backwards (not to mention wasting my 24-70 2.8 which is the best lens ive ever onwed). Been waiting for this one and finally can re-join this community. Shooting with a Canon s95 P&S is really starting to annoy me!
Good post scoop. Ur using a c@&!n ps and you're worried about going backwards? lol
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The_Scroop
14-09-2012, 11:53am
Good post scoop. Ur using a c@&!n ps and you're worried about going backwards? lol
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
The canon was only an interim thing, needed a camera of some sort to take non creative pictures of ebay items etc!
And THAT simply screams CONSUMER market, doesn't it?:Doh:
Think that might be a typo. The Nikon site specs lists AF fine tuning. But yea, 24MP with no AF mirco adjust would be a little worrisome.
knumbnutz
14-09-2012, 6:28pm
Hahaha,
well can you get any lower than that ?? LOL
....spose could be using an iPhone !
Good post scoop. Ur using a c@&!n ps and you're worried about going backwards? lol
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jamesridley
14-09-2012, 7:04pm
well i was looking at a low light performer fast action shots hoping thier be something tad cheaper then the d4 what u buy
i might stick 2 getting the d800:confused013
arthurking83
14-09-2012, 9:27pm
D600 versus D800: Specification highlights
...
...
...
No AF micro-adjust function (D800 allows micro-adjustment in +/-20-step increments)
....
....
....
Magnesium-alloy top and rear, polycarbonate front-plate (D800 is full mag-alloy except flash housing)
.....
The list provided looks 99% as it does on DPR too, except that No microfocus adjustment is mentioned.. and I'd be surprised not to see it on a camera at this level too.
So I reckon Swifty is on the money and is a typo or something.
Going by the body construction specs, it appears to be a D7000 body with a full frame sensor shoehorned into it.
THought others might find this interesting. Especially seeing as it shows the "difference" in size between the D800, D600 and D7000.
http://d600.org/2012/09/nikon-d600-vs-d800-vs-d7000-comparison-with-pictures/
Cheers
THought others might find this interesting. Especially seeing as it shows the "difference" in size between the D800, D600 and D7000.
And another configurable comparison tool.
http://camerasize.com/compare/#378,290
Nice camera and I would go for one to replace my D300 if I didn't shoot sports. Looks like the D400 (if they ever release one :confused013 ) will have a 24MP DX sensor for sure and hopefully at least 1 stop better high ISO than the D3200.
AK I'm certain the IQ of the D600 will absolutely destroy the D300 both at high & low ISO's, but probably on par with the D800.
Cheers
Leigh
ricktas
18-09-2012, 1:18pm
For info the New Nikon D600 is already arriving in stock. I just called into my local camera store and they have 4 of them. They were delivered this morning.
Film Street
18-09-2012, 2:03pm
For info the New Nikon D600 is already arriving in stock. I just called into my local camera store and they have 4 of them. They were delivered this morning.
Yes I saw four in a city store FB page this morning. A very quick announcement/delivery schedule this time. I think I want this camera.
ricktas
18-09-2012, 2:17pm
I just played with one for about 20 mins. great camera in a small form factor. Certainly if someone was going traveling and wanted a FF camera, that would take up less room, this is the one. Felt very small in my hands after using a D3 for so long.
Here is mine. I was just enquiring and expecting to go on a waiting list but they had 10 in stock so how could I not get one?
Now just need to take some talent pills to be worthy of having such a machine.......
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u251/JED_HSV/Aus%20Photography%20uploads/d600.jpg
Film Street
18-09-2012, 5:36pm
Here is mine.
Awesome. It looks so small.
ricktas
18-09-2012, 5:39pm
Awesome. It looks so small.
It is. Well for someone like me who is used to a D3, it felt tiny. I reckon bushwalkers etc will love it. When carrying it for days ,and fitting it into a pack etc is important.
It is. Well for someone like me who is used to a D3, it felt tiny. I reckon bushwalkers etc will love it. When carrying it for days ,and fitting it into a pack etc is important.
Never mind the bushwalkers - they should be fit enough to carry anything. What about those of us with arthritic hands that can barely hold a candle long enough to light it? :D
Had a play with a D4 not long back and I've got to say the D7000 felt tiny by comparison. If the D600 is a FF sensor jammed into a D7000 sized body, it has my vote.
raccoon
18-09-2012, 9:01pm
I picked mine up this morning, a big learning curve after the D5000..
Tommo1965
18-09-2012, 9:12pm
whats the street price of the D600...?
Never mind the bushwalkers - they should be fit enough to carry anything. What about those of us with arthritic hands that can barely hold a candle long enough to light it? :D
Had a play with a D4 not long back and I've got to say the D7000 felt tiny by comparison. If the D600 is a FF sensor jammed into a D7000 sized body, it has my vote.
The d600 is just a shade bigger than the d7000, but still surprisingly small. Have to remind yourself you are holding a full frame camera. Has its drawbacks too i suppose it doesnt look as "professional" as a larger camera to joe public, but as mentioned travelling light or arthritis or using it all day every day it is comfortable
arthurking83
18-09-2012, 9:44pm
I was in at vanbar on the weekend and they had (or have) a D600 launch nite, either tonight or tomorrow night.
the salesman gave me one of their promo pamphlets to attend, but I work late, so would never have been able to make it either way.
But being a D7000 sized camera body, I know I can't properly fit one into my hands .. years of having a D70 has helped me to realise this, and the switch to a D300 was the perfect fit.
D3 sized camera is ideal for the way I hold my camera, but a D700/800 is also pretty much ideal.
if it weren't over $2k .. and i'd still love to get one just for the hell of it, but for less than $2k! .. I'd have been off work and at Vanbar's tonight with a D600 weighing down the credit card! :D
($2.5K is just a bit too much for this level of camera body).
raccoon
19-09-2012, 6:31am
whats the street price of the D600...?
Hi Steve, i paid $2400 .. no haggling for price at the moment, but i suspect they will drop a bit
Hi Steve, i paid $2400 .. no haggling for price at the moment, but i suspect they will drop a bit
Mine was $2399.
The grey pricing of $2099 wasn't very appealing when taking all the factors into account, the main ones being an extra year's warranty and the store being a 5 minute drive away. Whether the 10% duty was avoided or not is the luck of the draw and historically I am not often lucky. LOL...
The D600 is near enough the same size as the D7000 and a little heavier but not enough to be an issue. I prefer the handgrip of the D600 to the D7000. The profile is slightly different which I find is more comfortable in my hand.
I'm just back from taking the first shots and I enjoyed the handling even though the pix aren't very exciting. I'll post them shortly, breakfast awaits.
I hope that Adobe doesnt take too long to add the D600's raw files to Lightroom and ACR's repertoire.
raccoon
19-09-2012, 7:47am
Damm you got a better price than me ($1)
I just read a post on the adobe site that it may not be in V4.2 of lightroom that is in beta test now..If not we will have to wait about 3 months for the next update..
ricktas
19-09-2012, 10:00am
The mods and I have been chatting, we reckon this move by Nikon to announce a camera and have it in stock with authorised distributors at a price only a fraction over what the grey marketers have it for, is a very clever move. I reckon some of the grey market stores could be a bit worried.
Film Street
19-09-2012, 10:16am
The mods and I have been chatting, we reckon this move by Nikon to announce a camera and have it in stock with authorised distributors at a price only a fraction over what the grey marketers have it for, is a very clever move. I reckon some of the grey market stores could be a bit worried.
Part of that move I think is having the camera available for sale locally only days after the announcement. Normally the wait is much longer.
Yeah the no waiting period is very tempting when we are only talking about 300 odd dollars difference. Smart move, Nikon, and why not
p.s. was very tempting - too tempting for me, cos I ended up buying one the day it was stocked
swifty
19-09-2012, 12:36pm
Part of that move I think is having the camera available for sale locally only days after the announcement. Normally the wait is much longer.
Now we know why there was a battery shortage for the D800. They were stockpiling it for the D600 assault.
It's really a great move to have the camera available shortly after release. Think everyone's been learning from Apple. The price consistency across different markets is also good practice, something that I hope to see more frequently from now on.
Yeah the no waiting period is very tempting when we are only talking about 300 odd dollars difference. Smart move, Nikon, and why not
p.s. was very tempting - too tempting for me, cos I ended up buying one the day it was stocked
LOL. You caught the same disease as me. :D I couldn't resist when told that they were available right then and there.
arthurking83
19-09-2012, 9:14pm
Yeah the no waiting period is very tempting when we are only talking about 300 odd dollars difference. Smart move, Nikon, and why not
p.s. was very tempting - too tempting for me, cos I ended up buying one the day it was stocked
Yeah the pricing is finally making sense(although I bit too high I still reckon)... but what's amusing is that traditionally there's always a long wait between a (Nikon) DLSR announcement and the delivery to stores.
And on the other hand, most P&S announcements are preceded by a swift stocking of shelves.
This time, when I'm in a rush to acquire a P&S for a deadline that's now passed, the damned model I want is still another two weeks away at least .. possibly four.
Anyhow, daughter is OK to wait a bit later than her actual birthday date, I showed her the camera and she thinks she loves it already! :D
Is it possible for a D600 owner to upload an NEF file shot at high ISO for me to download .... just to check out noise levels in CNX2.
Tommo1965
20-09-2012, 7:02am
DXO score is out for the D600..sits just below the D800 and D800E...looking at the 6400 files posted on another thread I feel that its a true indication of the sensors ability......now will I upgrade in sensor tech but downgrade in feature set and build quality from my D700....no I don't think I will...the D800 is a upgrade path for D700 owners..the D600 is a very good step for lower end Nikons or DX owners wanting a FX camera....but at $2400au its a lot of money .the D700 was selling for that when it was current and is clearly a better feature set and build
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Ratings
DXO score is out for the D600..sits just below the D800 and D800E...looking at the 6400 files posted on another thread I feel that its a true indication of the sensors ability......now will I upgrade in sensor tech but downgrade in feature set and build quality from my D700....no I don't think I will...the D800 is a upgrade path for D700 owners..the D600 is a very good step for lower end Nikons or DX owners wanting a FX camera....but at $2400au its a lot of money .the D700 was selling for that when it was current and is clearly a better feature set and build
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Ratings
Hey mate, just curious what made you think build quality is not d700 standard?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Yeah the pricing is finally making sense(although I bit too high I still reckon)... but what's amusing is that traditionally there's always a long wait between a (Nikon) DLSR announcement and the delivery to stores.
And on the other hand, most P&S announcements are preceded by a swift stocking of shelves.
This time, when I'm in a rush to acquire a P&S for a deadline that's now passed, the damned model I want is still another two weeks away at least .. possibly four.
Anyhow, daughter is OK to wait a bit later than her actual birthday date, I showed her the camera and she thinks she loves it already! :D
Is it possible for a D600 owner to upload an NEF file shot at high ISO for me to download .... just to check out noise levels in CNX2.
Ha, a wait for a point and shoot, and instant delivery of a newly announced dslr. You are right ak that is amusing.
If nobody else has done it by this evening I'll happily upload an nef at 6400 for you. Just where to?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
ricktas
20-09-2012, 2:39pm
If nobody else has done it by this evening I'll happily upload an nef at 6400 for you. Just where to?
Do you use dropbox?
Do you use dropbox?
Ah yea, of course. I'll post back here once it's up.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
arthurking83
20-09-2012, 5:33pm
Thanks Zollo .. I'll be waiting for any link you post.
I've already downloaded the Imaging Resources files already up, and they look as good if not better than the D800 high ISO samples.
NR on the D800 is set stronger on the camera than for the equivalent D600 ISO levels and NR settings too.
as an example a ISO12800 file from each, with NR set to zero, will see an NR setting of 13,5 in CNX2 for a D600 file, and 20,5 for a D800 file.
When completely zero'ed out, the D600 blacks have ever so slightly less colour noise than the equivalent D800 files .. but of course this is only noticeable at 100% view.
When equalised for print, the D800 will look better, due to the pixel count advantage.
For me tho, this useless 100% pixel peeping at high ISO noise levels is more about the natural colour rendition in the files, rather than absolute noise levels.
So even tho the D600 will have slightly better noise handling(to be expected just on the physics involved) .. the D800 files will still render nicer for a given output size anyhow.
(I was expecting more of an advantage to the D600 at 100% pixel view .. so in this instance the D800 still impresses in it's performance :th3:)
ISO6400 files are exemplary from both cameras, and this is an exposure value I've worked out is going to be important for me. Above that point will be a bonus.
Tommo1965
20-09-2012, 6:04pm
Hey mate, just curious what made you think build quality is not d700 standard?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
not a full mag alloy body..D600 is top/rear plate mag alloy the rest is polycarbonate over a stainless steel subframe ..the D700 like the D800 is a full alloy body
should be ok..but its a step back from a D700
Is it possible for a D600 owner to upload an NEF file shot at high ISO for me to download .... just to check out noise levels in CNX2.
Some snapshots at iso 6400
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z68agzw3gf5w8on/tU2T-l3vgP
Film Street
22-09-2012, 11:35am
I had a look at the rep's sample yesterday. Full frame, light weight, comfortable and looking good at 6400 ISO if you ever need to shoot there. Very nice.
The_Scroop
22-09-2012, 11:53am
Any reports of known issues as of yet? Rick made me second think buying without an aus warranty after i slept on the idea.
Dad is in Hong Kong this week so I asked him to check out some camera stores for me. He is able to pick up a D600 body only for $1800 AUD which is so very tempting at that price...just don't know what to do now!
edit: the Mack 3 year international diamond warranty that includes accidental damage is making this option even more appealing...
Film Street
22-09-2012, 12:14pm
Any reports of known issues as of yet? Rick made me second think buying without an aus warranty after i slept on the idea.
Dad is in Hong Kong this week so I asked him to check out some camera stores for me. He is able to pick up a D600 body only for $1800 AUD which is so very tempting at that price...just don't know what to do now!
A couple of Nikons recent more recent releases turned out to have issues. I have not heard of any on the D600. It is up to your dad to declare camera equipment he is bringing into the country. Along with that declaration will come a tax.
arthurking83
22-09-2012, 1:58pm
at $1800! .. no hesitation, grey import or not.
I'm tempted to send you some cash to get me one too now! :D
And stuff this idea of declaration :action: .. it's purchased as a personal import and hence not subject to taxes :p
(I'm convinced now that there is a government slush fund setup to protect the Harvey Normans of this country, and I'd prefer to contribute as little to it as possible).
Tommo1965
22-09-2012, 2:02pm
yes Arthur Im with you on that statement....
and for $1800..I certainly grab it if your in the market
raccoon
23-09-2012, 6:35am
Hi Everyone,
i gave the D600 a work out yesteday around the rocks and Harbour bridge
here are 8 NEF files that i have just put in dropbox (total size is 215mb) at various settings.
What an upgrade from the D5000 (a beautiful camera)
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o8ie2frirnyx7lj/KXaUynMIZU
They are currently still uploading so be patient
Have a good day
What, indeed, may you ask, is an avowed Pentaxian doing lurking in the Nikon forum?
Well I can assure you all I'm not trolling, just looking, and thinking.......... (And yes Lance, I know, you've BTDT)
The pre-release blurb of a FF camera around $1500 caught my eye, so I've been following the threads. OK, that was a furphy, but at $AU2,479 @ DCW with full Oz warranty, it still looks like a fair deal for an entry level FF.
PRIC (Pentax Ricoh Imaging Corporation for the uninitiated) , to say the least, rather underwhelmed me with their offerings at Photokina. No Roadmap for upcoming cameras? An outdated, and variable, lens roadmap? Where are they heading? I know Pentax has changed hands twice in five years, but to not give the 'faithful' any carrots , IMHO, is a big mistake.
So, do I really 'need' a FF camera. Possibly not, but I'd like to think that I can grow into one. With my declining eyesight, a 100% viewfinder (or close) is a big plus.
I still have a plethora of Canon 'A' series cameras, and really enjoyed what I saw in the OVF. Oh, and BTW, Canon lost me when they left all us FD mount users in the lurch.
I've just roughly totted up what I should realistically realise from my Pentax gear, and it certainly gives me a foothold in Nikon land. The D800 is not beyond the realms of possibility (the build quality and WR being comparable to the K5, and a step-up from the D600), although Mongo's, and others, unhappy initial journey makes me a little reticent.
I guess the D600 is still 'early days' so I will wait a bit and see if any inherent problems crop up. Suffice to say, I've got 'itchy feet'.
I'm not about to jump ship, but I am leaning on the rail.
You have no idea of the power of the Dark Side, Luke ... errr .. Kev! :D
Mmm, I'm very tempted... I have an immediate use for its high ISO capabilities, but do I want to spend the money? If only I could take one for a test drive for a week instead of (relatively) high rental prices!
At least one store in Hobart has it at a good price ($2,350) and as has been said elsewhere, local prices, local warranty, avoiding import taxes and other risks makes this more attractive than previously buying grey at slightly lower prices.
You have no idea of the power of the Dark Side, Luke ... errr .. Kev! :D
Good onya Waz. :lol2:
Lance B
27-09-2012, 2:56pm
What, indeed, may you ask, is an avowed Pentaxian doing lurking in the Nikon forum?
Well I can assure you all I'm not trolling, just looking, and thinking.......... (And yes Lance, I know, you've BTDT)
The pre-release blurb of a FF camera around $1500 caught my eye, so I've been following the threads. OK, that was a furphy, but at $AU2,479 @ DCW with full Oz warranty, it still looks like a fair deal for an entry level FF.
PRIC (Pentax Ricoh Imaging Corporation for the uninitiated) , to say the least, rather underwhelmed me with their offerings at Photokina. No Roadmap for upcoming cameras? An outdated, and variable, lens roadmap? Where are they heading? I know Pentax has changed hands twice in five years, but to not give the 'faithful' any carrots , IMHO, is a big mistake.
So, do I really 'need' a FF camera. Possibly not, but I'd like to think that I can grow into one. With my declining eyesight, a 100% viewfinder (or close) is a big plus.
I still have a plethora of Canon 'A' series cameras, and really enjoyed what I saw in the OVF. Oh, and BTW, Canon lost me when they left all us FD mount users in the lurch.
I've just roughly totted up what I should realistically realise from my Pentax gear, and it certainly gives me a foothold in Nikon land. The D800 is not beyond the realms of possibility (the build quality and WR being comparable to the K5, and a step-up from the D600), although Mongo's, and others, unhappy initial journey makes me a little reticent.
I guess the D600 is still 'early days' so I will wait a bit and see if any inherent problems crop up. Suffice to say, I've got 'itchy feet'.
I'm not about to jump ship, but I am leaning on the rail.
It's a big step, Kevin!
My reasons for jumping to Nikon were that I had a few issues with my Pentax K7 and a few of the newer lenses, I saw that Pentax were going nowhere soon, no FF on the horizon, I wanted the bigger VF for easier composition and Pentax at the time were at best prosumer grade, not professional grade. This was one critical point, I was very demanding on the results, the build quality, accuracy and having a camera and lenses built to prosumer levels only meant that there was no where to go upwards to the next level with Pentax. At the time, and in a way even now, Pentax just seem to be marking time. So, in May 2010, I deliberated for about a month tossing up the pro's and con's and finally, decided to jump ship. For me, it was the best thing I ever did.
I purchased the D700, 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8 VRII, 16-35 f4 VR, 1.4x TCII and 105 f2.8 Micro. The thing that struck me most was that everything just worked and worked as it should have, the build quality was exemplary and the results were excellent. In the latter days of Pentax ownership I had lost interest in photography to a degree but after the switch, my passion for photography was re-invigorated and it has stayed that way ever since the switch. The only drawback, other than the hefty price tag, was the fact that FF meant that my lenses were "shorter" by 1.5 times and to get decent "reach" meant big $$$ and big lenses. At the time of the switch, I was not into birds and only dabbled in wildlife at the zoo, so long lenses were not a priority. However, to be honest, I was probably less interested in birds whilst at Pentax possibly because they didn't have the lenses and the AF capable of capturing birds easily and when I switched to Nikon a whole new world of possibilities came into being and so I went down that path.
I dare say that if Pentax had "proper" professional grade equipment, I would have stayed with them. Unfortunately, they didn't and I wasn't going to wait around until they did as I am not getting any younger. :( I still have a very large "soft spot" for Pentax as they do make some excellent lenses with excellent IQ and their cameras are very well designed, small and solid, and are possibly the best for ergonomics.
Whether my story is similar to what you want from your photography is something that you need to decide. It's not an easy thing to do as it is a costly exercise and if you want long lenses it is going to be very costly. A 300mm f2.8 VRII lens is about $7,000 and that is only the equivalent of a 200mm lens on the Pentax K5 as far as "reach" is concerned. However, if you go the route of a D800, you can crop it back to the same as the K5 and have the same Mp and therefore "reach", so you won't really "lose" in that department. You've also got to be prepared to lug it around and it is about 3kg compared to the DA*300 which is only 1100gms. My day to day "kit" is the D800, 16-35 f4 VR (or 14-24 f2.8), 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8 VRII and the 300 f2.8 VRII, 1.4x TCII and 2x TCIII. This weighs in at about 8kg and when added to the backpack all adds up to near 10kg on my back! Sometimes, I add my 500 f4 to the mix for an additional 5kg! Of course, if I am just going birding, then I will only take the telephotos and TC's which makes it a little more palatable, but if I am going on a day trip somewhere, I may have a variety of subject matter and want to have all the necessary lenses to suit.
If you stick to a D800, 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8 VRII and the TC's it is a very manageable kit and even the TC's on the 70-200 f2.8 give excellent results. My "holiday" kit is usually the D800, 16-35 f4 VR, 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8 and the TC's. The 2x TCIII for the 70-200 really works very well and I can get excellent results using that combo. Using the 1.4x TCII on the 70-200 is almost indistinguishable from the lens bare.
Thanks for your input Mate.
Your thoughts on Pentax pretty much mirror my own.
I guess my dilemma at the moment is whether to get the D800, or wait a bit and see how the D600 pans out.
My early thoughts on kit seem pretty much the same as yours, a 24-70 f2.8, a 70-200 f2.8 and something in the 300mm+ range, and I mainly shoot off a tripod, so I can live without VR.
Many thanks for your well thought out reply Lance.
I am probably going to switch, just a matter of to what, and when.
I am probably going to switch, just a matter of to what, and when.
Join the Force, Luke ... err... Kev! :p
Well, just thought I'd check in with a quick update on the d600's weather sealing. I took a week off work and headed down south west, where it turns out there have been near cyclonic winds and foul weather for the last two days solid. So the 600 has been through 100+ km/h winds, downpours of epic proportions ( when the quickly turning weather caught me out) sandstorms ( on the beach - with aforementioned winds) plenty of sea spray ( 6 - 8 meter swells !! ) and to top it off, I got caught out in hail today. So far it's doing well, better than cold miserable me lol
Lance B
27-09-2012, 11:13pm
Thanks for your input Mate.
My pleasure, always glad to help out where I can. :)
Your thoughts on Pentax pretty much mirror my own.
I guess my dilemma at the moment is whether to get the D800, or wait a bit and see how the D600 pans out.
My early thoughts on kit seem pretty much the same as yours, a 24-70 f2.8, a 70-200 f2.8 and something in the 300mm+ range, and I mainly shoot off a tripod, so I can live without VR.
Many thanks for your well thought out reply Lance.
I am probably going to switch, just a matter of to what, and when.
I think the D600 should be a great camera, it has similar build to the D7000, which I had and thought it a great camera also.
Tommo1965
28-09-2012, 7:10am
Id be in the same boat as Lance..I started my DSLR experiance with Pentax..a brand Id known for a long time, but for me there where too many issues with the K5..too many AF problems in low light with particular lenses etc..also the choice of quality Zoom lenses were just not there so I moved brands...
intstead of making the mistake of looking at bodies only when I decided to leave Pentax ..I also looked the the lenses line up....Id read of the nikon 70-200VrII and after testing it I thought Nikon was the brand I wanted to invest in .
I bought a very lighty used D300s and a brand new 70-200...since then Ive purchased more gear ..but look to the used market as my budget is certainly not unlimited ...I also went to a D700..and for now that does everything I need..I dont need long glass as birds/wildlife are not one of my intrests...so really expensive lenses are not a issue for me.
I feel pentax has great LTD primes..and with the k5II they may actully work in low light ...and if so it would be a great light kit for street and walkabout......looking at lances walkabout Kit...id be crawling by the end of the day :lol:
Kev I see your lens list has the 300MM DA* ....Nikon also do a 300mm F4 and its cheaper than the pentax..and better bulit..so all thats Nikon isnt more expensive than Pentax
if the budget allows Id buy a D800 along with the Nikon 300F4...also a 24-70 and the 24-200
but if your after a bargain..try a Used D700 they are still one hell of a camera going for around $1500 now
Kev I see your lens list has the 300MM DA* ....Nikon also do a 300mm F4 and its cheaper than the pentax..and better bulit..so all thats Nikon isnt more expensive than Pentax
if the budget allows Id buy a D800 along with the Nikon 300F4...also a 24-70 and the 24-200
but if your after a bargain..try a Used D700 they are still one hell of a camera going for around $1500 now
Thanks for the input Thommo. There seems to be a steady trickle from Pentax to Nikon on this forum, Lance, WhoDo, yourself and myself and probably quite a few others too.
It was the images posted from the D700 on this forum that first made me sit up and take notice of Nikon. I'd see a sharp, well exposed image posted and say to myself, that's a D700, and I was mostly right. There was a stand-out quality about them.
I've decided if I do make the leap it will be to one of the new models with a 24-70 f2.8 and a 70-200 F2.8 (I have this in a Sigma and it is comparable with any of my Pentax glass) and I've been looking at the Nikon 300mm f4 + T/C as well. If I need UWA I guess the Sigma 10-20mm would get me started.
@ Zollo.................. Geez buddy, you sure gave it a baptism of fire (err... water) didn't you. :eek:
Ah, decisions, decisions..........................
arthurking83
28-09-2012, 12:24pm
Having already handled a D800 before today, the camera felt nice in my hands .. good size and comfy grip.
One of the aspects of the D7K that I didn't like to begin with was the 'petite' size .. mainly in the grip. Made for a harder camera to hold freely(as someone that doesn't use straps and other paraphenalia), so the ability to hold the camera all day is important to me.
For all intents and purposes the D600 doesn't feel different enough to the D300/700/800 series cameras as the D7K does to warrant that as a factor.
And it certainly doesn't' make for a better travel camera compared to a D800/700 sized camera ... the difference between D600 and D800 sized camera bodies is too insignificant in real world usage to make claims like that!
If it weren't for the limitations that the D600 imposes on the owner, I'd be charging the batteries on mine as we sit here and banter about.
Needless to say, I'm just waiting for the D800 and lens to be in stock and I'll have my new gear very soon.
In saying that tho, the D600 makes for a compelling purchase if your not as particular about connections and storage needs as I am(no CF slot is a PITB).
So for me to have got one would also mean a few hundred dollars spent on the accessories I need for it as well, which subsequently brings it even closer to the D800 in terms of pricing ..... ie. it's not just a simple camera purchase.
The viewfinder looks very nice, although in maintaining my pedantic stance, the round eye piece(D700/800) is nicer than the square types of the D300/7000/600.
The more concentrated focus points also looked to be worrisome coming from a D300, where they almost cover the entire frame. I'm willing to concede a bit of focus point spread as you get going from a D300 to a D700/800, but having to endure even less spread is another negative.
For most folks, going from a D7000, D300 or even a D700! .. it'd be a great upgrade path for 90% of photography needs, as long as the accessories requirements aren't a bother.
Coming from a fresh path, where you have no pre determined needs or wants, the D600 looks to be slightly better value at the moment than the D800 .. and I'm sure that will get better as time goes by and D600 pricing drops even lower, and history dictates that D600 pricing has a lot more headroom for falling than does the D800.
With DPR's preview of the D600 up and running too now, there's more confirmation that at elevated ISO levels the D600 appears to be slightly less noisy than the D800, although the difference is to small to make that a decisive factor between either a D600 or D800.
Lance B
28-09-2012, 3:52pm
Thanks for the input Thommo. There seems to be a steady trickle from Pentax to Nikon on this forum, Lance, WhoDo, yourself and myself and probably quite a few others too.
It was the images posted from the D700 on this forum that first made me sit up and take notice of Nikon. I'd see a sharp, well exposed image posted and say to myself, that's a D700, and I was mostly right. There was a stand-out quality about them.
I've decided if I do make the leap it will be to one of the new models with a 24-70 f2.8 and a 70-200 F2.8 (I have this in a Sigma and it is comparable with any of my Pentax glass) and I've been looking at the Nikon 300mm f4 + T/C as well. If I need UWA I guess the Sigma 10-20mm would get me started.
@ Zollo.................. Geez buddy, you sure gave it a baptism of fire (err... water) didn't you. :eek:
Ah, decisions, decisions..........................
Just remember that the Sigma 10-20 is a DX lens, not an FX lens and will therefore vignet on a FF D800/600. However, you can crop the FX and you should get an equivalent of about a 15-16mm on FX, or just use it from about 16-20mm on the lens.
However, there are:
Sigma 12-24mm f4.5-5.6 DG HSM II
Sigma 15-30mm f/3.5-4.5 EX DG ASP
Tokina AT-X 116 PRO DX 11-16mm f/2.8
Tokina AT-X 16-28mm f2.8 PRO FX
Tokina AT-X 17-35mm f/4 SD (IF) PRO FX Lens
I know nothing of the IQ of the above lenses other than the Tokina 16-28 f2.8 which has received some good press from owners and from tests such as that from Photozone.
Just remember that the Sigma 10-20 is a DX lens, not an FX lens and will therefore vignet on a FF D800/600. However, you can crop the FX and you should get an equivalent of about a 15-16mm on FX, or just use it from about 16-20mm on the lens.
I have tried out my Sigma 10-20 on the D600 and it works well. Just need to crop out the vinetting to taste.
Full frame
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u251/JED_HSV/Aus%20Photography%20uploads/DS6_0046%20-%20Sigma%2010_zps7d28a944.jpg
ricktas
28-09-2012, 6:35pm
Lance above mentions a few lenses. I have the Sigma 12-24 and used it with my D800 to get these : http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?111136-Copying-William-Seascapes whilst it might not be a 2.8 lens it certainly holds its own for wide angle landscape work.
Thanks for the link Rick. As you may have noticed above, and as Waz succinctly puts it, I'm contemplating a move to 'the dark side', AKA Nikon Land.
I've already picked up on your fondness for your Sigma 24-70 f2.8, and was impressed by your doggie shot, that doesn't really read right, your pic of your dog sounds better. Very sharp, I love 'sharp'.
At the moment, and this is plan 'H' or 'K' or something, I'm leaning towards the D600, the Sigma 24-70, a 70-200, probably also Sigma as I am super impressed with the original one I have for my K5, and it is waaay cheaper than the Nikon, and, and ..................., Oh, this is gonna hurt, flogging my beloved Suzuki 1200 Bandit, which I never ride, and admitting that I really am now officially an 'OLD FART', and investing the proceeds in the Sigma 500mm f4.5.
If I pick up a 1.4 or a 1.7 T/C for the 70-200, I figure I have pretty much covered my requirements, and if I feel the need to go UWA you have demonstrated that the Sigma 12-24 is a very useful tool, and not a credit card cruncher. (thought I'd throw in a bit of alliteration to finish).
Cheers
Kevin
arthurking83
28-09-2012, 8:43pm
...... Oh, this is gonna hurt, flogging my beloved Suzuki 1200 Bandit, which I never ride, and admitting that I really am now officially an 'OLD FART', and investing the proceeds in the Sigma 500mm f4.5.
......
OH! ..... the iPhonery iRony of it all .. and here I am thinking I'm an old fart contemplating getting an R1 (or an old '86-'88 model GSXR1100) .. well, maybe even a Paris-Dakar (for those times where I feel a need to get to more interesting places) .....
well I reckon at least one of us is wrong ..... and it ain't gunna be me this time!! :p
And if those eedjuts at Vanbar don't get their act into gear properly very soon they'll miss out, and my dollars will go directly towards one of those three aforementioned bikes instead!
Lance B
28-09-2012, 9:22pm
Lance above mentions a few lenses. I have the Sigma 12-24 and used it with my D800 to get these : http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?111136-Copying-William-Seascapes whilst it might not be a 2.8 lens it certainly holds its own for wide angle landscape work.
They look great, Rick. IMO, there is little need for f2.8 on these ultra wides, so an f4-f5.6 is more than adequate for just about all UWA work. I have just been looking up these lenses on the net and the Sigma 12-24 seems to have a loyal following and there is quite a lot of support for it and judging by the images I have seen, I can see why.
IMO, there is little need for f2.8 on these ultra wides, so an f4-f5.6 is more than adequate for just about all UWA work.
Don't just think landscapes and architecture with wide angles. I was quite happy to have F/2.8 available the other day. It might have been at the 28mm end of the lens but but it works just as well at the 16mm end too. :)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9582534/SW_20120927_163549.JPG
OH! ..... the iPhonery iRony of it all .. and here I am thinking I'm an old fart contemplating getting an R1 (or an old '86-'88 model GSXR1100) .. well, maybe even a Paris-Dakar (for those times where I feel a need to get to more interesting places) .....
well I reckon at least one of us is wrong ..... and it ain't gunna be me this time!! :p
And if those eedjuts at Vanbar don't get their act into gear properly very soon they'll miss out, and my dollars will go directly towards one of those three aforementioned bikes instead!
Deary me Artie, you are in a bit of a dilemma, aren't you? To bike to it, or just photograph it?
For me, having now reached the proverbial 'three score years and ten', + 1, and having spent half of those years exploring the limits of my abilities, reflexes, and license points tally, it's a no-brainer.
My dicky knees won't allow me to ride like I used to, but geez, I have some great memories to look back on, the highlight being a 22,000K ride around most of Highway 1. And I still have irrational thoughts when I hear a Duke with Conti's.
I guess the decision comes down to what feels right at the time.
Cheers
Kevin
arthurking83
29-09-2012, 9:16am
...... I was quite happy to have F/2.8 available the other day. It might have been at the 28mm end of the lens but but it works just as well at the 16mm end too. :)
......
I think that there are some folks that just don't have a need for f/2.8 at any focal length.
Gimme that option too, and I'm sure I'll find a use for it! ;)
Lance B
29-09-2012, 11:00am
Don't just think landscapes and architecture with wide angles. I was quite happy to have F/2.8 available the other day. It might have been at the 28mm end of the lens but but it works just as well at the 16mm end too. :)
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9582534/SW_20120927_163549.JPG
I did say little need, not no need. :D
Actually, one wonders why you used f2.8 for this capture as you could have used f4 and, if it was in an attempt to stop action, then used one stop more ISO for the same shutter speed and as it is a well lit scene and the extra stop of ISO wouldn't have been noticeable. In fact, the extra DOF may have been a bonus in this case.
It's just that I rarely try to use a narrow DOF for isolational purposes on an UWA lens. I have a 14-24 f2.8 and I don't think I can ever recall using the f2.8 aperture, may be useable at the longer end for isolational purposes, but I have generally used my 24-70 for this focal length as it is more likely to be what I have already on the camera. I also have the 16-35 f4 VR and find that a much more versatile lens due to VR and I have never found f4 a limiting factor on that lens. The thing is, with the inherent large DOF that an UWA lens gives it is very difficult to get isolation from a wide aperture unless you are very close to the subject and/or there is a huge distance behind the subject without any background giving the effect of isolation.
However, your use of a 28mm in this instance is not use of an UWA lens and just a normal wide angle and this could have been accomplished with one of your other lenses I am sure, 28mm lending itself more to allowing more isolation at f2.8 than say 14-16mm.
My point being, that Kevin is probably going to purchase the 24-70 f2.8 and therefore has the isolational properties of f2.8 for the focal range of 24-70, 24mm still being at the top end of UWA, and in the case of your photo above, would have accomplished the same result as that was taken at 28mm. For UWA use, there is little need for f2.8, IMO, and he may be better served by a cheaper UWA zoom in this range.
f2.8's probably useful in astro landscapes, where everything's at infinity so DOF isn't an issue and the extra stop/s help keep ISO/shutter speeds down.
Lance B
29-09-2012, 4:50pm
f2.8's probably useful in astro landscapes, where everything's at infinity so DOF isn't an issue and the extra stop/s help keep ISO/shutter speeds down.
These are usually taken on a tripod, so I doubt it would be much of an importance.
I am not saying that f2.8 UWA lenses are not useful, just that it is less useful for most applications and has limited use, IMO.
These are usually taken on a tripod, so I doubt it would be much of an importance.
Yup, on tripods but keeping shutter speeds to a few seconds compared to minutes keeps the stars round instead of trails. Of course the serious astrophotographers have those neat tracking guides that tracks the earth's rotation.
Actually, one wonders why you used f2.8 for this capture as you could have used f4 and, if it was in an attempt to stop action, then used one stop more ISO for the same shutter speed and as it is a well lit scene and the extra stop of ISO wouldn't have been noticeable. In fact, the extra DOF may have been a bonus in this case.
Shutter speed in this shot is independent of both aperture and ISO, it is fixed at 1/1000 and neither ISO changes or aperture changes will affect it.
The only two ways to get to F/4 are to either increase the light ( not possible ) or to increase the ISO to 800 and that only brings in less clean images to start processing. Depth of field in this shot is acceptable as is. F/4 is not needed.
My point being, that Kevin is probably going to purchase the 24-70 f2.8 and therefore has the isolational properties of f2.8 for the focal range of 24-70, 24mm still being at the top end of UWA, and in the case of your photo above, would have accomplished the same result as that was taken at 28mm. For UWA use, there is little need for f2.8, IMO, and he may be better served by a cheaper UWA zoom in this range.
I started reading where Kev was saying he was interested in using his 10-20 Siggy as a wide angle and then your post ( #96 ) advising of the UWA lenses available for an FX body that will do the job. Out of the FX lenses you listed, all would be in very much the same price bracket, having F/2.8 available to use is a bonus that makes good sense to me.
arthurking83
29-09-2012, 11:03pm
You don't use a super wide angle lens at f/2.8 for the 'isolation' it provides!!
The difference between f/2.8 and f/4 in terms of isolation is insignificant at the least, and I would say completely unnoticeable even to the discerning eye!
I can't say that I've ever thought of getting an f/2.8 UWA lens for the ability to isolate subjects more .. in fact I don't think I could count on one hand any time when I've wanted any UWA lens for the purpose of subject isolation at all! ... apart from once when I wanted to see how an f/2.8 UWA lens renders the bokeh, and so far that I've seen, they're usually pretty ordinary at doing that anyhow.
Of the two UWA lenses I've briefly played with that had f/2.8 apertures(Tokina 11-16 and Nikon 14-24) the bokeh usually looks nicer in it's rendering at f/4 compared to f/2.8 anyhow.
So even tho theoretically the faster aperture setting will isolate the subject matter more, the more nervous looking rendering at f/2.8 cf f/4 can be an issue.
that extra stop of aperture is generally all about the ability to capture one more stop of light where it otherwise wouldn't be available, or for the purpose of a brighter viewfinder!
I can count many times when I've rued the fact that I never invested in a faster f/2.8 aperture UWA lens, in many situations(such as tonight).
And where many folks seem to preoccupy themselves with spending money on faster wide angle lenses and then subsequently spend more money on accessories to slow down the amount of light getting through to the sensor, I find myself on the opposite end of the spectrum, always wishing that I'd gotten that faster lens in the first place.
I'd find the difference between f/2.8 and f/4, or f/4.5 very useful as opposed to occasionally useful .. hence the dilemma .. spend that significant amount of extra money on the lens, or on something else?
It's all about uses and need really. 90% of the photos I capture are of the landscape variety and the rush to get an f/2.8 UWA lens is less urgent than than just the fact of getting any UWA lens and various accessories for it.
If I could justify that added expense tho, I'd get the faster lens in a heartbeat!
Went into Hardly Normal and test drove the D600 and I must say Im tempted.
To me in my hands it seems a bit small than the D300 which fits like a glove when its fitted with the grip.
To all out there with large hands,does it feel a bit small to you as well?
Prices are going east to west but will have to sell my D300 with possibly the 300mm f/4 and tele convertor to buy a D600
cheers
Went into Hardly Normal and test drove the D600 and I must say Im tempted.
To me in my hands it seems a bit small than the D300 which fits like a glove when its fitted with the grip.
To all out there with large hands,does it feel a bit small to you as well?
Prices are going east to west but will have to sell my D300 with possibly the 300mm f/4 and tele convertor to buy a D600
cheers
It does feel small in my hands also, but only in the height of it. they have made the actual grip section more ergonomic than something like the 7000 or d300, so that feels ok to me. still, i am looking forward to attaching a battery grip, which will make it pretty comfy I think
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
arthurking83
11-10-2012, 4:41pm
I had a test play(no images tho) as well.
Actually feels nicer than the D7K to hold for largish hands.
As a D300 owner, I'd say it's acceptable in the grip(personal taste) and to me it felt half way between a D7000 and a D300. Of course the D800 felt just that lil bit more comfy for me.
D600 would be something I think I could get used to in terms of in the hand feel and hand holding all day, but I'm sure the D7000 would cause me grief after extended hand holding.
In the game to get a D600 and found one at this site
www.discountcameras.com.au
sorry in advance but just looking at all avenues
cheers
znelbok
17-10-2012, 7:51pm
What would you guys recomend as a lens to get initially with this camera. I eventually want an UW lens for landscape and my previous lens was an 18-135 which I found good for general purpose work.
My initial lens list is
14-24 f2.8
24-120 f4 or 24-70 f2.8
70-200 f2.8
The 24-70/120 would be the lens that I am initially looking for, or something similar. These a Nikon lenses, but looking at Sigma I see some lenses that are significantly cheaper with similar specs
e.g. Sigma 24-70 f.28 for $690 compared to the nikon 24-120 f4 $1100 or nikon 24-70 f2.8 $1540. As you can see the Sigma is significantly cheaper (under half the nikon) and I am concerned that I am missing something important between the two (three) lenses.
Thanks
Mick
arthurking83
17-10-2012, 8:39pm
Sigma Tamron and Tokina always make lenses that are cheaper than the comparative original manufacturer stuff!
Apparently the original manufacturer stuff is wayyyy better, but 99.9% of people would be hard pressed to tell the differences between the respective images when they're outputted to most commonly used sizes(ie. print or web display).
Of course pixel peepers will tell you that the original manufacturer lenses are much sharper than the third party equivalent, but in most of these instances we are talking about distinguishing details such as the dust flecks that have landed on a persons eye lash, or the eye lash details themselves! :p
if you care enough to be able to reproduce the dust specks on a person's eyelashes then you need the original manufacturer lens, if all you want is a good image, that accurately resolves just the eyelashes than the third party lens will most likely suffice!
What I find 'interesting' is when people bleat on about how much sharper the original manufacturer lens is, and then spend either lots of time or money on processing this sharpness out of skin features! :confused:
In your case, unless you need the faster f/2.8 aperture ability, the 24-120/4 will be a good allrounder lens to play with if an allrounder lens is something you reckon you'd use.
There lies the question .. more reach or more aperture?
I suppose another way to look at it is:
lets say you really need two lenses as a short term end point.
your options could be:
1) get a 24-70/2.8 + one longer-ish lens to have that extended reach for when it becomes important.
say $700 for a Sigma 24-70/2.8 and then an option for a longer could be something like a Sigma 150mm macro(dunno exact pricing, but lets say $900) you get good portraiture lenses with a bit of WA ability plus the option to shoot close in.
2) get a 24-120/4 and then couple that with either a WA medium aperture prime(28/1.8 - $700), or a standard prime(50/1.4 - $400), either way you get a faster aperture. With this option you have a long-ish focal length within easy reach handy, but when light is really low, you now have the option of a truly fast aperture with either an f/1.8 or f/1.4 speed lens if the need arises.
For the sake of what that means.
if shutter speed remains constant, an f/2.8 lens that requires ISO6400, will mean that your f/1.8 lens will allow you to use lower sensitivity setting at say ISO2500(or 3200 with 1/3rd more shutter speed, or the same ISO @ 6400, but in even lower light levels .. etc)
Of course the f/1.4 lens will then give you equivalent ISO settings of 800 keeping the shutter speed the same.
But remember that aperture is not just about lowering ISO .. it's just one of the options available to you when/if you need it. It's also about subject isolation if required.
well in addition to ak's post above, there is one reason i do prefer manufacturer lens and that is compatibility and reliability. i bought a sigma 17-70 f/2.8 as did a photographer i work with and both within 3 months our OS systems on the sigma lens were playing up, jumping around at the most inconvenient times. even switched off it would spasm like a rabbit in a bag making the lens very hit and miss, almost unusable. the sharpness and general iq were fine. i did not bother to fix mine, but the guy i work with got it fixed, and within a month this time his was doing it again. in contrast, i have taken over 200 000 photos (this lens is on its third nikon body) with a nikon 16-85 and it has performed flawlessly within its purpose, needing only new rubber grips as they perish under the workload. only now the af is starting to slow down, meaning the motor will expire sometime soon. still, the average hobbyist will not use their lens at anywhere near the workload i do.
there are couple of other issues with third party such as inconsistent compatibility, and one other thing to consider is resale value, much better for oem lens than 3rd party.
monsters
18-10-2012, 1:46pm
What about the 16-35mm F4 for WideAngle lens. Ignore this if it was mentioned earlier.
I am thinking of getting a wide angle lens too but cant afford the 14-24 f2.8
arthurking83
18-10-2012, 2:58pm
well in addition to ak's post above, there is one reason i do prefer manufacturer lens and that is compatibility and reliability. ...... .
This is true, but it's also true in the opposite direction too.
I have 2 Sigma lenses(and granted they're not OS types) but they've been flawless, and the 10-20mm lens has copped a beating and two halves(not just the extra half!)
I also have Tamron lenses, and mind you I have a few Nikon's too.
The only lens I've ever sold was a Nikon lens(80-200/2.8), and because it wasn't performing the best on my camera .. and replaced it with a Tamron 70-200/2.8 which worked a whole lot better.
Read up on the tales of woe that many encountered with the early batch of Nikon 24-70/2.8's(loose knocking noises, or something) .. read up on failed AF-S motors on 28-70/2.8's .. read up on internal shavings on the new 70-200/2.8VRII ..
The point is that mechanical components can be prone to manufacturing or design faults either to begin with or eventually down the track ...
I don't buy this argument that one brand is better than the other, and even if they were better made as a brand on the whole, is the Nikon lens 3x more reliable than the Sigma lens?
That is, you would expect 3x as many Sigma lenses to break down or falter than you would Nikon lenses.
(I dunno where you'd find this info, but I'm sure you won't find figures that look like that).
It is true too that most of the original mfg lenses will focus faster, but this speed can also be questionable too(depending on need and usage).
It's also true that mfg lenses will focus more accurately, but this is also questionable, as the reason I sold my 80-200mm was it didn't focus accurately on my camera!(where the Tamron does!).
The point is that you'll hear one side of the story from one person and then an alternate POV from another with opposing experiences.
It's not just lens though, I've been through 2 knock off battery grips, one which died totally and one which wouldn't take the en-el15 only the aa batteries, and my genuine nikon one hasn't made a whimper since I bought it soon after it came out for the d7000.
I think the main point is, that through working professional, hard, everyday use, I have learnt that there is a difference between oem and 3rd party, but, for more occasional users, the difference will not be so obvious and other factors come into consideration.
Tommo1965
18-10-2012, 3:52pm
What would you guys recomend as a lens to get initially with this camera. I eventually want an UW lens for landscape and my previous lens was an 18-135 which I found good for general purpose work.
My initial lens list is
14-24 f2.8
24-120 f4 or 24-70 f2.8
70-200 f2.8
The 24-70/120 would be the lens that I am initially looking for, or something similar. These a Nikon lenses, but looking at Sigma I see some lenses that are significantly cheaper with similar specs
e.g. Sigma 24-70 f.28 for $690 compared to the nikon 24-120 f4 $1100 or nikon 24-70 f2.8 $1540. As you can see the Sigma is significantly cheaper (under half the nikon) and I am concerned that I am missing something important between the two (three) lenses.
Thanks
Mick
when I went from Pentax to Nikon..I made the move as I wanted a 70-200Vr II..plus I wanted a camera that had better AF than the pentax K5 had....I looked at Nikon lens lineup and that too made the decision to go with Nikon easier.
the point I'm trying to make is DSLRs are only part of a system, the lenses are the other part.....most people go with Third party due to cost, when I was with Pentax it was due to a manufacturer lens not being available for the FL that I wanted.
I read reviews, I look at the lenses first hand , up till now the Nikon lens has always been the best choice for me ...but they are expensive, but you get what you pay for I believe...
so if you can stretch for it get the Nikon lens..after all what did you buy a D600 for ..if it wasn't to use Nikon Glass ?
as far as your lens choice...I love my 70-200...then the 24-70...so Id get a 70-200 first...its the most expensive , so get that pain out the door early I say ...but if it were between a 24-120 or the 24-70, Id buy the latter
I would prefer to buy only one lens and it be outstanding, rather than three ok ones for the same money YMMV
znelbok
18-10-2012, 6:25pm
These replies make a lot of sense but don't make it any easier.
On one hand, the non-oem lenses are significantly cheaper and are from reputable manufacturers (unlike a cheap Chinese hand-grip). Aftermarket equipment can be as good and even surpass OEM parts, and the price will reflect that.
What is confusing though is the price difference here. How do you quantify the extra value in the Nikon glass?
Is the image quality twice as good (doubtful)?
Is the build quality twice as good?
Can you look at a photo and tell me which lens was used (bit like listening to speakers with expensive cables)?
I cant answer these questions and I know there is varying opinions on which way to go. Reviews and personal comments are all I can go by at the moment.
Tommo1965
18-10-2012, 7:35pm
I had a sigma 70-200 HSM II...and my Nikon 70-200 VR II is easily twice as good, and three times better in the IQ/ sharpness area...build wise , Id say half as good , Ive never had a sigma 24-70 so I cant help there
images.... I can see what were taken with the Nikon against the sigma, I can shoot a F2.8 and still have a sharper image than at F5.6 on the sigma
im not so sure about the new Sigma OS version of the 70-200..the gap has closed but not enough IMO
how much these differance make in a dollar value is too hard to even consider....its up to the individual and what they feel is right for them , my advice is go test the lenses and make your own mind up
knumbnutz
18-10-2012, 8:08pm
Hey Mick,
I know what you mean, pricing per performance doesnt make a lot of sense sometimes.
I guess there are two things that come to mind.
1st. you have changed to FF and different manufacturer, why ? Performance, because the one you are using isnt as good as the new system. The new system has an edge.
2nd. Sigma (tamron and tokina) have some good lenses but few of them are rated highly, like the canon or nikon equivalents, why ? Performance, because they arent as good as the brand one. The system has an edge.
When you start to see and feel the difference between lenses and know that something is better than the other then it is time to change. That means you know its not you that might be letting you down, its the equipment.
Similarly, in all fields of life its the same.
So , if you can tell the difference then go with the best one.
Of course you should try them out where possible, afterall the cost is worth it.
In sound systems we had a term "$10 sound system for a $10 ear"
znelbok
20-10-2012, 10:07am
I was just thinking about this camera and the best way to go about purchasing.
I have found it for <$2K with Aus warranty, but I am wondering if there is an opportunity for a group buy with those that may still be sitting on the fence here.
I don't know if GB's are allowed here and I am sure there would be a site sponsor willing to do a deal. I am relatively new here so I am not familiar with how open this community is to group buy's, but with the interest in this new camera, it seems like the ideal time to have one
Just a though
Mick
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