View Full Version : To buy an expensive lens from gray or australian retailer?
Hi guys,
Just want to know where you buy your expensive lenses from, i know the pros and cons dof them, ive bought a lot of things from gray market but mothing over $1000.
Im a canon user and planning to buy an L lens ehen i get my tax return, but still debating either to buy from gray.. Am just a bit worried because its so expensive that if somethings wrong with it, it might be hard to have it replaced or something?
What are your thoughts about this? Have you bought say $1500 or more from gray or just dealt with a few more hundred dollars and went with australian retailers?
Im a canon user and planning to buy an L lens ehen i get my tax return, but still debating either to buy from gray.. Am just a bit worried because its so expensive that if somethings wrong with it, it might be hard to have it replaced or something?
Well, factor the return postage / courier cost should the need arise back to Hong Kong against probably zero costs from an Aus. retailer and see what the savings may be from buying a grey import.
If you really are so worried about the warranty on the product, maybe another brand that doesn't have so may reliability problems may attract you more.:rolleyes:
In reality, with the Aus. peso at a strong point at the moment, firm price combating policies in place by local distributors and already some well known grey importers charging more than local retailers, one really has to ask the question as to why you would bother importing -----
7D 100-400 24-105 all from DWI and nothing but excellent dealings on all occasions
Many things to consider.
I bought my camera from B&H (site sponsor) after my local retailer refused to offer competitive price and my nearest large town (Dubbo) had competition, but also refused to offer any customer service or competitive price. So on the www I get some Aust. stuff better priced, but if something went wrong I had to pay for postage back to them.
B&H had a special on the camera I wanted, if something went wrong, they paid for postage!!! I think this is their standard. So read any terms and conditions.
In reality, with the Aus. peso at a strong point at the moment, firm price combating policies in place by local distributors and already some well known grey importers charging more than local retailers, one really has to ask the question as to why you would bother importing -----
Andrew, can you show me an example of a known or reputable grey seller asking more than a local one for L-glass? I would be very keen to see their pricing and how much cheaper it is.
I have over $20k real monies invested in Nikkor glass, and every piece of it is grey. I have had no issues whatsoever with any of it, and saved thousands, not peanuts.
Many like Nikon offer international warranties on glass, so check if Canon do the same, and if so ignore the return postage etc scenarios and scaremongering some local resellers would have you believe. Postage to HK from here is quite cheap for fully insured items, so the many $$ you can at times save will offset any return postage if need be by a factor of maybe 10+
ameerat42
15-07-2012, 9:22pm
I comes down to choice. What does each party offer? Is grey any better/worse than local?
What's the warranty period?
And so on and so 4th...
Have bone both...
Much of a muchness
Hope you get a good deal out of it.
Am.
Mark L
15-07-2012, 10:22pm
Many like Nikon offer international warranties on glass, so check if Canon do the same, .......
Canon don't do the same any more.
Canon don't do the same any more.
Yup this is what i know as well..
Guess ill be going gray because the price difference is just way too much! :O
Mark L, what town are you from? Big town for me is tamworth/dubbo as well! Am from Narrabri!
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Canon don't do the same any more.
Yup this is what i know as well..
Guess ill be going gray because the price difference is just way too much! :O
Mark L, what town are you from? Big town for me is tamworth/dubbo as well! Am from Narrabri!
Edit- sorry scratch that saw where your from now.. Hehe!
Hi Schy...
I've also bought 5 lenses from DWI and haven't had any issues with the lenses. There's no such thing as a counterfeit Canon or any other brand lens so they can't be copies with a Canon badge. It's a bit hard to knock up a lens out the back of a Chinese shop from scratch.
The only worry I had before my first expensive purchase was whether the lenses from overseas importers are brand new or if they could have been a refurbished product. They all appeared new and unopened but I'm sure some of the sellers somewhere in the world would be pulling some sort of scam, so if you buy "offshore/grey", buy from importers/retailers recommended by fellow photographers. I now see other AU retailers offering grey sales alongside their au sourced products so they are trying to keep in business in the retail game.
As said by others below, Canon Australian will no longer honour any International 12month warranty on "L" series lenses. I rang them to check before I bought my lenses. L series lenses are of the best quality so the possibility of getting a faulty one is slim but not impossible. I was sent the wrong lens (non IS) once but DWI refunded me the postage costs back to their Australian warranty/return agent so it only cost me some waiting time. You do not have to send their returns back overseas.
I've also bought from Camera Action in Melbourne, (with Canon Australian warranty) saved $80 on my Canon G12 over local shop who obviously doesn't need the business. I'm sure the sponsors on this site also offer great deals and should be considered too.
Over 2 years ago, I saved over $1000.00 on my 7D and 15-85mm lens compo. That's not chickenfeed.
One last point, on cameras, the 5DmkIII, info has been released by Canon which series of serial numbers have the light leak issue and if you buy overseas, you probably won't be able to check the sn before you buy.
Hope this helps...
Thanks for that flashc!
Just wondering, if you order the 70-200 f2.8 is ii from dwi, will it be likely or unlikely charged with GST? Thats over $2000 piece of glass..!
Im leaning towards gray cause they are really much cheaper its just the GST that's making me worry a bit..
ricktas
16-07-2012, 6:15am
Many like Nikon offer international warranties on glass, so check if Canon do the same,
Canon don't, they changed their policy about a year ago. They will not offer an international warranty on 'grey' purchased lenses.
koputai
16-07-2012, 7:48am
Canon don't, they changed their policy about a year ago. They will not offer an international warranty on 'grey' purchased lenses.
Hmm, I wonder what happens if you legitimately buy an 'L' lens overseas (whilst on holiday or living abroad etc) and have an issue when you are back in Aus.
Surely they couldn't reject you?
Cheers,
Jason.
MarkChap
16-07-2012, 7:49am
That is exactly what they would do Jason.
All Canon product now carries a Country of Origin warranty
Hmm, I wonder what happens if you legitimately buy an 'L' lens overseas (whilst on holiday or living abroad etc) and have an issue when you are back in Aus.
Surely they couldn't reject you?
Cheers,
Jason.
That's the choice you have to make. If you buy while in Au from an Au grey reseller, they do offer a 12 month warranty. Other places repair camera gear not just the makers. You only get a 12 month warranty (sometimes 24) wherever you buy in Australia. Save $500 on the purchase and keep it to finance your next lens.
Thanks for that flashc!
Just wondering, if you order the 70-200 f2.8 is ii from dwi, will it be likely or unlikely charged with GST? Thats over $2000 piece of glass..!
Im leaning towards gray cause they are really much cheaper its just the GST that's making me worry a bit..
Anything imported over $1000 AU should have GST added. This should be considered in your calculations. I've heard this doesn't always happen, though it would only be a bonus if it doesn't happen.
Thanks for that flashc!
Just wondering, if you order the 70-200 f2.8 is ii from dwi, will it be likely or unlikely charged with GST? Thats over $2000 piece of glass..!
Im leaning towards gray cause they are really much cheaper its just the GST that's making me worry a bit..
PM me your email address for an explanation on how it works.
MissionMan
16-07-2012, 10:49pm
I'll buy cheaper items overseas but lenses and bodies I buy local. These are two areas that you need a local warranty. Good example is the D800 body and if you're not sure if it's a lens or body problem, at least you can drop both off.
Only a couple of items to date from two seperate grey sellers and no problems so far. Always looking :)
Jaded62
19-08-2012, 6:39am
Me x 2
7D 100-400 24-105 all from DWI and nothing but excellent dealings on all occasions
EGlobal was touting no GST on any purchase a little while ago. Something about having an agreement with their couriers.
Just wondering, if you order the 70-200 f2.8 is ii from dwi, will it be likely or unlikely charged with GST? Thats over $2000 piece of glass..!
You should be charged GST as it is over the limit, however it seems common practice for all grey retailers to undervalue the item. It is fraud and Customs are well within their power to hold the item and give you a heavy fine. Whether this happens on a regular basis is probably unlikely, but I know someone who has been nabbed trying to import a 5DII + 300 2.8.
Not trying to scare you but it can and occasionally does happen if Customs suspect the individual to be skirting the law.
I think buying grey is a real personal choice depending on who you talk to. Over on Whirlpool there are countless threads of bad experiences and some good ones with DWI. It's a matter of balancing the risk - I'm quite happy to buy a grey Nikon SB-910 as the savings are considerable and for the $400 if it does cark it well not a big deal for that amount of money. However, maybe not with precision optics such as lenses and cameras.. indeed I managed to get a better deal from JB buying the Nikon 24-70 2.8 for $1680 and the D800 for $3350. At the time, greys were equal or higher than JB when postage was included.
I guess, however, if I were to buy from a grey retailer I'd try and buy from one who is Australian based with a registered business. That way despite the manufacturer's warranty (or lack of) you still have 12 months under Australian Consumer Law. There's a fellow in Perth that comes to mind, however I'm still deciding what I want to get :cool:
Xenedis
19-08-2012, 10:45am
All of my Canon lenses are L-series lenses, and every single one of them was purchased from an Australian-based parallel importer. (I have never purchased from online sellers based overseas.)
The only problem I've ever had was years ago with one lens which had defective element inside the lens. The supplier sent a replacement and I returned the fulty unit.
There are some matters to consider when buying from Australian-based parallel importers.
Firstly, the items do not come with a manufacturer's warranty from Canon Australia. Given that a warranty is only valid for one year, that may not be a big consideration for some people When I last purchased a lens (2008), Canon still offered international warranties.
If you're a professional photographer and wish to join Canon Professional Services (CPS), the items will not meet your equipment requirements for CPS membership eligibility, as some years ago Canon Australia decided to be precious about it and insist that the lenses and Cameras you purchased had to have been purchased from authorised Canon dealers.
If you buy from an Australian parallel importer, you are still protected by statutory rights under the Consumer and Competition Act (formerly the Trade Practices Act). The supplier cannot disown the problem.
Some people seem to look upon the purchasing of goods from a parallel importer as some sort of stigma. Certainly the manufacturers and retail stores don't like it, as the latter cannot compete on price.
As I see it, there is no problem with purchasing from parallel importers. If anything, it is safer and more convenient than purchasing from a manufacturer's authorised retailer overseas. Plenty of people buy camera equipment overseas, and in that case they would also not receive a manufacturer's Australian warranty (nor a battery charger cable with a 240V AC plug), and would need to go back to that supplier in the event of a problem. Plus, there's the issue of consumer law in those countries, with which I dare say most Australians wouldn't be familiar.
At the end of the day, it is a matter of personal risk assessment for the consumer. If you are not comfortable purchasing equipment from any business other than an authorised retail outet, and are prepared to spend considerable money for retail overheads and a one-year warranty, then that's your choice.
Personally, based on years of owning Canon DSLRs and L-series lenses, I have never needed warranty service, and have not experienced reliability issues. I have literally saved many thousands by buying from reputable Australian-based parallel importers, and do not consider the one-year warranty and retail overheads to be worth that money.
In my opinion, the Australian market (esp. at a retail level) is absolutely ripped off. The cost price of a lens paid by retailers to Canon Australia can be more than the price a consumer pays to a parallel importer. My feeling is that Canon Australia's prices are too high. Then again, Australia may be considered such a small market compared to the American, European and even Japanese markets.
Savvy consumers will always look for a better deal, and armed with the knowledge of the risks and benefits associated with purchasing from non-authorised dealers, can make some significant savings. I speak from experience. The equipment all came from the same factory.
If the manufacturers and the retailers don't like the fact that there are other business under-cutting them, then they'll need to adapt or lose.
The retail business is tough these days, and online shopping and more awareness (of how horrendously ripped off we are) has been progressively attacking them. If they cannot compete on price, they need to find another way, which generally means service. The problem there is that with the proliferation of information on the Internet, even service may be a 'product' that the consumer doesn't need.
In my case, you (a retailer) do not sell to me; I buy from you. I know the products I want, and there's very little a salesman can tell me that I don't already know. It's simply going to be a case of whether a salesperson can give me the product for the price I am prepared to pay. If not, then I will buy elsewhere.
I'm simply not interested in unnecessarily spending extra money for the same item.
It comes down to personal choice at the end of the day, and I am comfortable with mine, and have been comfortable for a long time.
Blueywa
19-08-2012, 11:41am
My Nikon bodies have all been locally sourced but glass and other accessories have been bought from local and overseas outlets, and so far I havent had any warranty problems.
As for the prices being charged by some of our dealers; we pay more for most things suposedly due to our small population (yes I know, pure BS).
If you are worried about 'grey' warrantys then consider the amount you are 'saving' versus the cost of returning for any claims.
I support local business but not if they have rediculous profit margins.
I am the same as Xenedis, with 2 small differences.
1) I have all pro Nikkor glass where every single piece was sourced overseas.
2) Nikon still offer international warranty on glass.
I agree in that the 'product' of service is useless to me. I have doen the research myself long before I step into the camera store, so I also buy from them, rather than them selling to me. I am an avid importer and proponent of buying wherever you get the best deal, as long as the reseller is reputable. I strongly support USA and HK resellers, having spent tens of thousands $ and never been stung by any of them. They have always been very helpful from the time of purchase, to a couple of warranty issues.
JM Tran
19-08-2012, 5:14pm
meh, even DWI - selling stock from HK online - has their warranty serviced by ATECH in Sydney, so no need to send it back to HK/China. Like they had serviced one of my lenses under warranty.
its a win win for me, and I will continue to shop via grey importers for years to come.
geoffsta
19-08-2012, 5:40pm
I have read through all the posts, and I have found that opinions by members are location based.
Those that live close to major cities all state buying local because they can get the items back quickly and easily.
But for us that live a distance from any camera shop or repairer the cost of either travel or postage has to be weighed up against buying from overseas.
I have started using DWI as my supplier. And I know all their items come from overseas. But they are extremely trustworthy. And always very helpful. And delivery is cheap.
But for us that live a distance from any camera shop or repairer the cost of either travel or postage has to be weighed up against buying from overseas.
A rather strange observation Geoff. You live closer than me to a shop that will provide good service and attempt to match prices where possible and if you look further into it, when you are working you are only about 5 min walk away from said shop.
Yeah, I know, he can't get within realistic pricing on some items and he is painfully aware of that and knows that if I ask for a price I will refer him to the DWI or e global sites. But, as the saying goes, don't put all your eggs in one basket.
gbamber
19-08-2012, 7:20pm
OP I have bought 3 L lenses from a grey importer. He is in WA, but ships Au wide. He has his own warranty system & it has worked for at least 1 person I know.
Not sure what the protocol on the site is, but if you are still interested PM me.
I work in an industry that is under attack from // importers & until I understood the reasons why, I was dead against it. It is all down to margins demanded by authorised importers. I won't buy another lens from an authorised source under the current system.
That is exactly what they would do Jason.
All Canon product now carries a Country of Origin warranty
That's interesting isn't it. When you think of it the county of origin ought to be where it was made, not were it was sold.
Not sure what the protocol on the site is, but if you are still interested PM me.
Think if you're active and have over 50 posts, you can post links and name names.
.....
Those that live close to major cities all state buying local because they can get the items back quickly and easily.
But for us that live a distance from any camera shop or repairer the cost of either travel or postage has to be weighed up against buying from overseas. ....
Well I've been happy with B@H. They beat the price I can buy on-line from Aust. retailers (for what I've wanted). In the unlikely event something needs to be returned under warranty, the Aust, suppliers want me to pay for postage to and from them for it to be fixed (or I could drive to Sydney, more expensive than postage).
B@H pay for postage for stuff covered by warranty.
Swings and roundabouts, read fine print, do what makes you comfortable.
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Not sure what the protocol on the site is, but if you are still interested PM me.
Think if you're active and have over 50 posts, you can post links and name names.
.....
Those that live close to major cities all state buying local because they can get the items back quickly and easily.
But for us that live a distance from any camera shop or repairer the cost of either travel or postage has to be weighed up against buying from overseas. ....
Well I've been happy with B@H. They beat the price I can buy on-line from Aust. retailers (for what I've wanted). In the unlikely event something needs to be returned under warranty, the Aust, suppliers want me to pay for postage to and from them for it to be fixed (or I could drive to Sydney, more expensive than postage).
B@H pay for postage for stuff covered by warranty.
Swings and roundabouts, read fine print, do what makes you comfortable.
JM Tran
19-08-2012, 8:34pm
I have read through all the posts, and I have found that opinions by members are location based.
Those that live close to major cities all state buying local because they can get the items back quickly and easily.
But for us that live a distance from any camera shop or repairer the cost of either travel or postage has to be weighed up against buying from overseas.
I have started using DWI as my supplier. And I know all their items come from overseas. But they are extremely trustworthy. And always very helpful. And delivery is cheap.
Hmmmm not sure about that one Geoff, I am in Hong Kong 2-3 times a year for shoots and shenanigans, yet I still buy my gear on DWI - because its still cheaper than buying from Man Shing/Wing Shing in HK! :lol:
ricktas
19-08-2012, 8:53pm
The really stupid thing with all of this is that the Canon/Nikon, etc lens you buy comes from the same factory. Canon make it, Nikon make it, it is their product, made on their production line, yet they will not honour a warranty on it, if you do not buy it from their official sellers. But these grey sellers must have purchased their stock from Canon/Nikon, or a distributor somewhere, and Canon/Nikon happily sold them that stock. If these camera brands were really serious about not supporting grey, they could just embargo the supply of goods to these grey stores in the first place.
It is really just a big game that they play with us, the consumer, and they get a profit premium, by trying to scare us into thinking grey is bad. If a grey market selling in Hong Kong can sell a lens at 1/2 the price it is available for here in Aus, and the grey seller can make a profit on it, then Canon/Nikon must be selling it to these Hong Kong stores at a lower price than they sell it to the Aussie B&M stores.
Why these large multinational companies are not forced by international trade laws to supply the same item, at the same price, out of the same warehouse and production line, to everyone is beyond me. The playing field is not level from the start of the supply chain, and that sucks!
They will argue that the cost of supply to Australia is more than the US for example, BUT, the same lens costs the same amount to make on the same production line, it doesn't cost more to make it cause its for Australia. And shipping.. if we can buy a lens from Hong Kong and get it shipped here for $30-$50 within a few days, why cannot Canon/Nikon do the same, and if not for cheaper, by sending in bulk.
*rant over*
Greedy middlemen, distributors. Ask any retailer, they will tell you. The Aus distributors demand premium markup, that and the higher cost of running a retail outlet here in Aus add further pressure to the local price.
just be thankful that Nikon Aus, can't get approval the way Nikon USA has to deal with grey items.
Nikon USA, will not touch grey items for US residents regardless of whether it is under warranty or not, and regardless of whether the customer is offering to pay for the repair, they simply have a policy not to touch it, which does go a very long way to scare USA residents into buying from their distribution chain.
I am led to believe Nikon AUS wanted to try the same on here and were told by Japan to forget it.
flashc
20-08-2012, 12:04am
The really stupid thing with all of this is that the Canon/Nikon, etc lens you buy comes from the same factory. Canon make it, Nikon make it, it is their product, made on their production line, yet they will not honour a warranty on it, if you do not buy it from their official sellers. But these grey sellers must have purchased their stock from Canon/Nikon, or a distributor somewhere, and Canon/Nikon happily sold them that stock. If these camera brands were really serious about not supporting grey, they could just embargo the supply of goods to these grey stores in the first place.
I was just about to write something similar until I read your comments. Agree with this totally. I also thought Nikon Aus didn't honor International warranties anymore, the same as Canon.
There is an enquiry going on in AU at present in relation to various product pricing in Australia (Apple, Adobe prices etc) and can be read about in Au newspapers. Questions are being asked such as why, if you download a software product or music, why do consumers have to pay a premium price in Australia for the same digital download. The consumer is paying their ISP for the bandwidth to download the same item most likely from the same central server in the USA that distributes all over the world but at different pricing.
When Sony started taking movie pirates to court for illegal downloading activities and copying of DVD movies, did Sony stop producing blank DVD's that were used for the activity. What else would user's use blank 4.7Gb DVD discs for - backing up their wordprocessing files and yearly tax returns. It's all about the money and scattered consumers around the world not having a united collective voice in the Global (free trade?) community.
I often wonder who supplies the grey market their Canon, Nikon, Sony etc. stock and at what wholesale pricing - Canon direct, or some middleman purchasing and warehousing at smaller profit margins. Maybe Au consumers need to set up a not for profit grey market consumer collective and deal direct with the major suppliers. But that's probably just dreaming...
Mark L
20-08-2012, 10:37pm
just be thankful that Nikon Aus, can't get approval the way Nikon USA has to deal with grey items.
Nikon USA, will not touch grey items for US residents regardless of whether it is under warranty or not, and regardless of whether the customer is offering to pay for the repair, they simply have a policy not to touch it, which does go a very long way to scare USA residents into buying from their distribution chain.
And why would they be scared? They can buy the stuff a lot cheaper in the US than we can here.
I got my camera from the US at as good a price as anywhere.
They might be scared because their Northern Neighbours in Canada often sell both new and used and great prices, yet Nikon USA will not touch any Canadian distribution chain products unless covered under a worldwide warranty, regardless of whether the owner is paying or not.
I purchased a "grey" Sony camera from Hong Kong, I did have a shutter failure after 15 months that cost me $220 to have repaired by Sony repair agent in Aus.
They told me that if it had been purchased in Aus, Sony would more than likely honoured the warrenty even though it was 3 months out of date.
So I could have saved $220 but the camera was $400 from Hong Kong, so I am still in front
JM Tran
28-08-2012, 11:22am
Just received my Sigma 85mm back from warranty repair with DWI half an hour ago.
Bought last August.
Lens is a hard worker for wedding and commercial stuff, AF motor slipped and could not AF anymore.
Sent to DWI end of July 12' for warranty repair.
Got it back after 4 weeks.
Would I keep buying grey imports knowing they are easily covered by 3rd party warranty in Aus? Absolutely.
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