Mongo's D800 Defects Report

[mongo]

Mongo thought he would start a new thread to get the attention of all those who have been waiting for the result - at least for now.

Mongo had a brief chance today to have a quick check of the D800 AF repairs.


Mongo’s lenses are mainly manual so limited in what he could test with. The 200-400 is also with Nikon at present getting calibrated so not available for these tests.


Mongo is going to do more extensive testing over the next few weeks. However, has posted a few quick comparisons for now.


Most importantly, the first time Mongo took the D800 in , it had :
1. software update which is now available unless your camera already has it installed
2. had been calibrated using charts only i.e manually. Yes, you read it - manually. Very strange for such a sophisticated computer function. As you know, that was not satisfactory.
3. this time round, Mongo was told they had received new software program from Japan for correcting this problem and that Mongo’s D800 had been run through the program. Mongo asked the logical question, “did the program show the AF was still out and if so, what was the degree of change made by the program to get the AF correct ?” Mongo was told that the program corrects any such problems but does not report the changes made. Sorry to say but Mongo is a little sceptical about that answer. Nonetheless, as long as the results are right, they will speak for themselves.


Please ignore the variation of contrast and tone etc on the sets of 3 images - the sharpness of focus is the primary issue Mongo was interested in when taking these test images.


First set of 3 images (being left sensor focus, middle sensor focus and right sensor focus) was taken outside Nikon’s premises at Lidcombe before Mongo would take back delivery of the camera. He used the original 70-200 VR Mongo used to test the camera. This lens too had some calibration done to it by Nikon. The image is of part of a sigh in the industrial complex where Nikon is located. The sign was at least 70 feet away, the speed was between 1/2500th and 1/3200th at f2.8 resting on a retaining wall - so very steady.
90717

The second set of 3 was taken at Mongo’s cave with an old lens AF correction chart he had . Note, this time he used his old Nikkor AF 180mm f2.8 (“new”) model lens which is quite sharp and reliable. This was done to eliminate any potential edge sharpness issues which may or may not be in the 70-200 VR on a full frame. Shot at f2.8, 1/200th with flash while camera and lens were resting on the back of a tall chair - again quite steady.
90718




Lastly, just for completeness, Mongo used a 24-135 zoom at 35mm wide open. 1/60th , flash, resting on the back of a tall chair and reasonably steady. Of course, the chart was so small at 35mm Mongo just aimed for where the "o" should be
90719


The test images indicate to Mongo that the 3 AF points tested are performing reasonably uniformly now. However, Mongo will be testing consciously and subconsciously for some time over the coming weeks/months to be certain and with a wider variety of lenses he will no doubt pilfer from various friends he shoots with from time to time.


Mongo hopes this is some help to some of you who feel they may also be affected by this issue. If Mongo is to believe that Nikon has now received a new program form Japan that it uses to analyze and rectify the issue, then , from now on, there should be some confidence Nikon know how to fix this problem quickly and effectively. We shall see.

[OzzieTraveller]

G'day Mongo

"Goodness Gracious Me ..... " as the old song goes

Your treaty is not too dis-similar to another old one about a Rolls Royce car [and your d8000 is a RR camera too]
After it had to be put on a tow truck and returned to the RR dealer in south melbourne, the owner received it back shortly afterwards with a nil-cost for repairs docket

The docket simply said "vehicle was unable to proceed" - "rectified"

Hope all goes well with your RR camera
Regards, Phil

[Ezookiel]

To my eye in the first image there is a large difference in focus from the left image to the others.
And the second set the middle image is distinctly less focussed than the left and right images.
The third set does appear a lot more uniform than the others.

Will be glad to see Nikon get past this issue and move on with everyone happy, I'm not into either brand specifically, so just hate seeing either, or for that matter ANY brand with customers not happy. We all want to go out and take photos not deal with camera faults.

[Tommo1965]

Mongo.. centre and right AF in the second image look soft now mate....

the sign taken at the Nikon centre looks sharp to me..but as I assume you took that at 200mm..it probably had around 6ft DOF..so miss focus issues may be masked by that....

doing the test at 35mm..you need the target a lot closer to first to get clarity and second, to again take away the increase of DOF that a wider lens at distance permits.


Ive taken many images of focus targets as I had Af issues on a body I once owned and I know the PITA it can be..

for all critical focus ...use the tripod and MLU and waiting to make sure any vibration is gone from the body before taking the image..id recommend self timer set at 10 secs

[richardb]

Mongo, u collect the repaired D800, made some test, and showed us ur tests, but u lack to write down ur own comment on those tests? (The thread title says a lot already.) It should be:
- cam test performance specifications
- test setup description, with comparison test or not
- test result
- comment on results

Nikon should solve this problem. Google for D800 issue, .......
Make a lot of noise on the issue. Write a column in the next issue of an aus. photo magazine.( kinda : "My work with the D800 and results")
I'm very interested in Nikons improvement action for the D800, coze could be buying one in Jpn next fall.
:gl:

[mongo]

Mongo.. centre and right AF in the second image look soft now mate....

the sign taken at the Nikon centre looks sharp to me..but as I assume you took that at 200mm..it probably had around 6ft DOF..so miss focus issues may be masked by that....

doing the test at 35mm..you need the target a lot closer to first to get clarity and second, to again take away the increase of DOF that a wider lens at distance permits.


Ive taken many images of focus targets as I had Af issues on a body I once owned and I know the PITA it can be..

for all critical focus ...use the tripod and MLU and waiting to make sure any vibration is gone from the body before taking the image..id recommend self timer set at 10 secs

good points Steve and Mongo intends to redo these tests over the weekend when he has more time and will re-report. However, in broad terms, the AF sensors appear to be performing reasonably uniformly now as opposed to then. Will try again just to be sure.

- - - Updated - - -


Mongo, u collect the repaired D800, made some test, and showed us ur tests, but u lack to write down ur own comment on those tests? (The thread title says a lot already.) It should be:
- cam test performance specifications
- test setup description, with comparison test or not
- test result
- comment on results

Nikon should solve this problem. Google for D800 issue, .......
Make a lot of noise on the issue. Write a column in the next issue of an aus. photo magazine.( kinda : "My work with the D800 and results")
I'm very interested in Nikons improvement action for the D800, coze could be buying one in Jpn next fall.
:gl:

thanks for your comments. MOngo intends to retest but with much less urgency based on the tests he has done. He has found in broad terms, that the AF sensors appear to be performing reasonably uniformly now as opposed to then. Will try again just to be sure. Steve made some good points about the type of testing shortfalls which Mongo will try to address in the next tests.

[richardb]

Mongo, no worries...
D800 focussing issue found and solved:
http://blog.mingthein.com/tag/focusing-problem/
Report saves u lots of testing work and describing the results to us.

:gday:

[mongo]

Mongo, no worries...
D800 focussing issue found and solved:
http://blog.mingthein.com/tag/focusing-problem/
Report saves u lots of testing work and describing the results to us.

:gday:


Nikon say that Richard but it is entirely a different thing to achieving it. The first time Mongo took the D800 in they manually adjusted it and said it was now OK. It was not ! All of this was AFTER they had known about the problem and presumably put proper arrangements into place to fix it definitively. They second time Mongo took it in, they ran a new program they just received from Japan to fix it. Mongo is still assessing whether or not that has done the job. So, while there may be a solution available, it really depends where and who you take it to in Nikon and how well they apply the "fix" that may really determine if your camera gets put right.

[reaction]

hopefully the new batches will all be correct...

[richardb]

Nikon say that Richard but it is entirely a different thing to achieving it. The first time Mongo took the D800 in they manually adjusted it and said it was now OK. It was not ! All of this was AFTER they had known about the problem and presumably put proper arrangements into place to fix it definitively. They second time Mongo took it in, they ran a new program they just received from Japan to fix it. Mongo is still assessing whether or not that has done the job. So, while there may be a solution available, it really depends where and who you take it to in Nikon and how well they apply the "fix" that may really determine if your camera gets put right.

Wooow, according this test http://hifivoice.wordpress.com/2012/05/05/d800-autofocus-problem/ , the sensor is contaminated with sticky particles as well.
About the focus issue, at the A'dam Nikon Support it seems to be a 1/2 hour re-adjustment job ( a link at NL3 in this report to Nikonians). Some technician......
Greetz to Mongo.

[richardb]

To whom it may concern,
some more info on the "D800 repair" at Amsterdam Nikon Service Point Netherlands....http://hifivoice.wordpress.com/

:tog:

[mongo]

To whom it may concern,
some more info on the "D800 repair" at Amsterdam Nikon Service Point Netherlands....http://hifivoice.wordpress.com/

:tog:

Thanks again Richard. However, as Mongo has previously said, the repair methods and machinery and software options are impressive but are they actually available at Nikon in Australia and being used to repair our cameras ????? Maybe in the Netherlans but no one has confirmed that this is actually being used in Australia !!!

There is too much secrecy by Nikon which leads Mongo to suspect they are not using all available methods to fix the problem in Australia. Mongo's camera went in twice for the same problem to be fixed. In theory, if they had used all these things , it would have been fixed the first time - but it wasn't. Indeed, to this day, Nikon has never told me just which tests and corrections were applied to Mongo's camera. gain, too much secrecy which gives rise to suspicion about what they are actually doing and not doing. Mongo see no reason for Nikon not to fully report these matters to the owner. what tests were carried out and what corrections were made ( if any) and the degree of correction needed in each test. this is not a big deal to do and most would be on computer print out for invoicing purposes to Nikon by the repairer .

Mongo will continue test the camera largely because Nikon have not given him a definitive report on what was done to his camera and Because he has not yet tested himself with an appropriate AF lens e.g. A 50 f1.4

Has Nikon sent out a form of recall or alert to camera body owners of bodies ,say, before a particular serial number that that body may be affected - Mongo thinks not. If that is correct, tHat is very poor form from Mongo's perspective

[reaction]

mongo did you test to see whether your camera was tending to back/front focus?
Mine seems to require large AF tune numbers vs other bodies.

[flyreels]

I am looking at buying the D800, I think I may put it off untill they have these problems fixed.

[mongo]

mongo did you test to see whether your camera was tending to back/front focus?
Mine seems to require large AF tune numbers vs other bodies.

A very quick check showed the 70-200vr was front focusing (using the centre AF sensor) but more cHecking to go and on a range of lenses to give Mongo a good picture of what is going on generally,if anything.

- - - Updated - - -


I am looking at buying the D800, I think I may put it off untill they have these problems fixed.

Mongo would if he were you or had his time over again. It may get a little cheaper too in the interim.

[reaction]

also the diopter setting, what angle is 'zero' on yours?
mine came out of box straight up/down. but it was fuzzy. I ended up turning it until it sloped forward at the angle of the body, and it was better. not sure if this means it's out, or if someone had played with it before I got it.

[mongo]

also the diopter setting, what angle is 'zero' on yours?
mine came out of box straight up/down. but it was fuzzy. I ended up turning it until it sloped forward at the angle of the body, and it was better. not sure if this means it's out, or if someone had played with it before I got it.

can't say about your experience with this but MOngo played with his extensively until he is very sure it is as good as it can get for his eyesight requirements.

[arthurking83]

viewfinder dioptre settings will vary from user to user where it looks clear and sharp.

I can't use Andrew's (I@M's) cameras as his dipotre settings are way out for my eyesight, and I won't muck around with other's cameras.

But that's the whole point about the dioptre .. there is no fixed point of focus .. the user/owner sets that as the reference point.

[reaction]

But that's the whole point about the dioptre .. there is no fixed point of focus .. the user/owner sets that as the reference point.

I thought the dioptre setting has a Zero, which is for 'good' eyesight. Then the other settings are for people who need glasses but aren't wearing them?

[arthurking83]

I thought the dioptre setting has a Zero, which is for 'good' eyesight. Then the other settings are for people who need glasses but aren't wearing them?

I'm not sure there is an absolute definition for 'good eyesight'

as with lenses, everyone's eye's focus differently .. not so much better or worse, but differently.
So that one person may focus better slightly further forward and the other will focus better slightly further back, even tho their eyesight may be as acute as each other

I think a proper definition for good or excellent eyesight would be of someone that can focus from the tip of their nose to infinity at the same time!!

But you are correct the dipotre does have a zero setting, but as far as I'm aware of this setting, it's not so much an actual zero setting as it is a reference point to either move the reference point further forward or back .. ie. the + and - values on the dioptre control.

I'm not sure of which camera you have, but on the D300, what would amount to a zero or centred setting simply doesn't make any sense.
If I were to estimate what would amount to a sensible central point for the rotating control, this would then give me 1/4 turn in the -ve direction(left) .. but from that same point, I get 1/2 turn of adjustment.
That is I get 3/4 of a full turn of a circular dial's worth of adjustment!!
Without any actual marking for a centre or '0' mid point, trying to estimate this 3/8's point on the rotating dial control (3/8ths being the mid point for a 3/4 turn!!) is ridiculous to begin with(ie. it makes no sense in operation), and would place the mid point an an unnatural (estimated)5 o'clock position. That's hardly where you'd expect to have a non marked central point.

Some cameras use a lever style linear adjustment(D70 had this) so you would estimate the mid '0' point to be half way between the two extreme ends. But again there is no marking.

Tolerances are very fine in the viewfinder and hence is a very fragile environment in a SLR, and it's prone to bumped out of whack with simple nudges and knocks.

I think the idea of the dioptre adjustment control is to help those with wide ranging eyesight variations, and also to allow the owner to adjust as their eyesight varies over time, but also to allow the owner to maintain the most focused view through it if it's been knocked out of alignment.

FWIW: my dioptre is set to approximately this 3/8th position(but remembering that it's difficult to measure this point exactly... without counting all the click stops!!) ... but the other factor here is that at that approximate position, there are 3 actual click stops where the dioptre setting has all the vf info(led display) clear and sharp.
So I choose the middle of the three click stops as my preferred option for no other reason than it's the central point of the three click stops as they're all sharp and clear.