Astronomik, Canon and astro-imaging. Anyone tried Clip-Filters ?

[mickyj]

Hello,

I am almost a complete Newbie to Astrophotography. My skills are limited to High ISO 30 sec shots of the Milky way and 1 hour shots at low ISO of the stars at the horizen, using the Southern Cross to pinpoint the center of the star trails.

I have an el-cheapo Telescope and a T adaptor that does not fit :(

Up until now I have used my canon 5D and 70-200 mm for star shots. I have seen some really cool shots using hydrogen-alpha solar filters and was looking at maybe getting a Clip-Filter (EOS) with ASTRONOMIK H-Alpha-CCD 12nm, for my Canon 7D.

Has anyone used these on Canon and can give pointers? Can anyone give any pointers on starting with Astrophotography with a very small budget ?

[ameerat42]

Ha-ha Mickyj. I guess "Don't start with H-alpha filters." would keep the costs down. I've been looking at them myself, recently, and they do cost.
Even the small broader band ones for the front of eyepieces are expensive.

Of the shots you've seen on AP, I would doubt that any H-alpha filters were used. People mostly stack frames to produce either trails or detailed starfields.

What is your el-cheapo scope, and I'd be interested to know why the T-adapter doesn't fit.
Am.

Edit: (Forgot in my haste) Do you have an equatorial mount to track stars? I had a look at some of your gear. Wide aperture glass is essential for good star shots. At least an inch (2.5 cm) of clear aperture used to be the rule-of-thumb.

[mickyj]

Thanks for the reply. I have read that the IR Cut off filter in the Canon Camera's should be removed for the best results with H-alpha but I am reading on the Astronomik website that their clip filters do not need you to do this. That is one of the reasons I wanted to throw the question out there and hoped someone might have tried it :)

Yes, the h-alpha for filters that fit to the end of the lenses, are very expensive. The Clip units go into the throat of the camera, before the lens (only for EF lenses and only certain Canon Camera's) and are cheaper (But still not cheap).

Before I take the plunge, I want to be sure my expectations are set.

I have looked at stacking programs and am interested but I think I need to start with better images first.

The Elcheapo was purchased for my Daughter from eBay. Literally a cheapie. It was called a "ASTRONOMICAL & TERRESTRIAL 525x ZOOM TELESCOPE". It came with Barlow lenses etc but the hole at the end of the telescope is not a normal diameter.

[ameerat42]

Yes, such things have been around for ages, but I'm sure your daughter meant well.
They sport a modest mirror of about 4.5 inches, a focal length of about 900mm, and they give you a 12mm or so eyepiece and a barlow.
If it's a reflector, you might be fortunate in having a light duty equatorial mount. The refractors usually sport just a flimsy fork-design alt-azimuth mount.
Often, though the main mirror or objective lens is quite passable, and some firming up of the mount can make the whole thing moderately useable for some observing.

I'm sure they're designed to put people off astronomy.

Your camera lenses would be the go for serious photography.
Am.

[mickyj]

Well, it looks like you (Am) and me learning together on this one, One of us will be starting down the h-alpha road sooner or later

[ameerat42]

Well, it looks like you (Am) and me learning together on this one, One of us will be starting down the h-alpha road sooner or later

Well, it would be interesting to try, especially for solar views. But I think before that I will have to expend some effort and money on getting the makings of a 12-inch reflector back into a telescope form.

I've had it like that since I bought it (decades ago). It looked so promising and inviting when I pulled it out again today during a tidy-up. I briefly mentioned it in another (recently revived old) thread.

Do you know there's an interesting tutorial here on AP about astrophotography: http://www.ausphotography.net.au/forum/showthread.php?16712-Night-Astro-Photography-Hints-and-Tips&highlight=astrophotography

Am.

[mickyj]

Excellent. I am reading that post right now.

[SteveInNZ]

I think you may be confusing H-alpha filters for solar imaging and H-alpha filters for deep-sky. They are completely different animals.
A deep-sky filter (of which the clip-in is an example) has a bandwidth of around 5-15nm and lives at the camera end of the imaging train. It is designed to pass the light emitted by H-alpha in a dark background.
The solar H-alpha filter (system) consists of two parts and has an extremely narrow bandwidth (<0.1nm) and is generally a dedicated telescope.

As you have seen, it's quite common to replace the IR filter in the camera. Different cameras have different levels of response to Ha. Some DSLRs might be a stop or two down but some like the 5D2 seem to really knock it out. If your camera isn't sensitive to Ha, adding an Ha filter isn't going to help. However, if you live in a region with lots of light pollution, a Light Pollution filter (LP or CLS) will help a lot as it blocks streetlight wavelengths and passes astronomical wavelengths of interest so you can expose for longer before the background washes out your subject. You can buy those as either eyepiece filters or clip-in filters.

Of far more importance in astrophotography is the mount. Where every other forum will say "spend your money on good glass", here it's all about the mount. Any form of equatorial mount will open up a universe (pun intended) of possibilities. That can be as simple as a homemade barndoor tracker upwards. Then it becomes a case of staying within the capabilities of the mount.

Steve.

[ameerat42]

I think you may be confusing H-alpha filters for solar imaging and H-alpha filters for deep-sky. They are completely different animals.
A deep-sky filter (of which the clip-in is an example) has a bandwidth of around 5-15nm and lives at the camera end of the imaging train. It is designed to pass the light emitted by H-alpha in a dark background.
The solar H-alpha filter (system) consists of two parts and has an extremely narrow bandwidth (<0.1nm) and is generally a dedicated telescope.

As you have seen, it's quite common to replace the IR filter in the camera. Different cameras have different levels of response to Ha. Some DSLRs might be a stop or two down but some like the 5D2 seem to really knock it out. If your camera isn't sensitive to Ha, adding an Ha filter isn't going to help. However, if you live in a region with lots of light pollution, a Light Pollution filter (LP or CLS) will help a lot as it blocks streetlight wavelengths and passes astronomical wavelengths of interest so you can expose for longer before the background washes out your subject. You can buy those as either eyepiece filters or clip-in filters.

Of far more importance in astrophotography is the mount. Where every other forum will say "spend your money on good glass", here it's all about the mount. Any form of equatorial mount will open up a universe (pun intended) of possibilities. That can be as simple as a homemade barndoor tracker upwards. Then it becomes a case of staying within the capabilities of the mount.

Steve.

Good to see you here Steve, and I agree with your advice, esp the last paragraph..
Am.

[SteveInNZ]

Thanks Am. I've been patiently waiting for a thread where I understood what they were talking about. :)

[mickyj]

Thanks Steve. I actually want the H-Alpha for deep-sky and was hoping to try this in combination with some other filters I already have, for Solar. I am no expert on this so your advice is very welcome.

I am reading up on Barn door mounts as the Skywatcher units are beyond my budget :(

[SteveInNZ]

Barn door mounts are OK if you're good at woodwork and have a really solid tripod. I've tried a couple of times and never had much luck. You'd never guess it from reading on the net these days, but you can go a long way with a non-goto equatorial mount. It then comes down to how much effort you're prepared to put in to each exposure and polar alignment versus how much you save.
The bottom of the pile in equatorial mounts is the EQ-1. It's a skinny looking thing that you'll see on the cheapest scopes and I'd suggest avoiding that. The next step up is the EQ-3 sized mounts that you'll often see under short 6" reflectors. I think I paid $20 for one that someone had in their basement for years. The scope was stuffed, but I put a ballhead on the mount and used it like a barndoor mount. Take a 30 sec exposure, wind the knob a quarter turn, count to 5 and take the next exposure.
Next step up are used mounts like the Vixen Polaris, CG5 and EQ5 that have RA drives but no goto and no guiding. The CG5 and EQ5 are copies of the original Vixen design which is the best of that bunch. I picked up a used Polaris for about $250 and it will do 1-2 minute exposures without guiding at 1000mm focal length.

Before you buy the Ha filter, I would try and get to a dark site and do some test shots at some targets that are strong in Ha. eg. Orion nebula in summer and Eta Carina in winter. If your camera doesn't pick up the red, you'll be wasting your money on the filter because to get any benefit from it you'll need longer exposures which means more money on a mount.

[mickyj]

Thanks. I am trawling Gumteee and ebay for second hand cheap mounts. I have the dark site sorted and already had some fun with star photos. I just want to crank up the quality and difficulty and learn more :)

[ameerat42]

Thanks. I am trawling Gumteee and ebay for second hand cheap mounts. I have the dark site sorted and already had some fun with star photos. I just want to crank up the quality and difficulty and learn more :)

A good start, Micky. But do be careful of what you get. For serious astro stuff, which you seem to be heading for, a cheap mount might not be very suitable. Mounts are mainly - but by no means only - rated on weight-bearing capacity. But even so, some are so flimsily made that you couldn't really do anything with whatever weight you put on it.

Get yourself to an astro shop and try to have a look at some mounts. Get an idea of how they're made, etc., etc.

Anyway, you get the drift.
Am.

[SteveInNZ]

Yes, indeed. As I said earlier, the mount is _the_ most important part. Just to be clear, I'm advocating a cheap EQ mount is an alternative to a barn-door mount, not as the ultimate solution. It's the equivalent of trying macro photography with simple tubes or a diopter versus stepping straight into L glass.

[mickyj]

Has anyone got advice rearding a celestron nexstar-4-se. They seem to be camera friendly, reasonable aperture, motorised and affordable.

http://www.ozscopes.com.au/celestron-nexstar-4-se-computerized-telescope.html?gclid=CKr27cSx2rACFUIkpQodYHcG1A

[ameerat42]

Mickey.

Who knows how relevant my info is, but here, it's free:
That's a slightly upscaled Celestron 90 of days of yore. The only one of those I had experience with gave terrible images at prime focus.

Lately I have tried using a Meade 90, looking something like this. I could not without buying a $100+ adapter for the camera - essentially a T-mount. I don't know whether Celestron include one.


Though maybe touted as camera friendly, they are not for these reasons:
1) they are very fiddly to use as they are
2) they would too shaky with a camera attached
3) the camera would interfere with the motions of the scope.

IMO, anyway. Their use is limited to just a small astro scope. And then, the "flip mirror" doesn't feel very accurate in its action, which in the Meade 90 at least, is spring loaded.

Am.

Oh - still had time to edit. Just looking @ the specs again I noticed that it comes with a "Sturdy" Alt-azimuth mount. That won't be as useful for tracking as an equatorial mount would be.
Also, there's no mention of a T-mount or any aid for photography, so there's an extra 100 bucks.

But wait, there's more: at least on the Meade 90, the finderscope was soooo ho-hum, and as for trying to align it with the main scope!!! Once "fairly near", it was easily knocked back out of alignment.
I don't know about the Cel finder.

[mickyj]

Thanks, this makes sence. I was looking at an eq3 pro but the $$$ scared me

[mickyj]

Taking everyone's advice into account I need to find:

An Eq mount/Tripod
Large Apperature Telescope
Goto computer control
Dark place
Canon EOS T adaptor

How about http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Reflector/SkyWatcher-N150-EQ3-Pro-Package/581/productview.aspx

EQ3 pro with Goto
150 mm Reflector

Any thoughts ?

[ameerat42]

Dunno, Mickey. I hesitate to give any advice as to a purchase. What you have shown is certainly not a bad looking/specified piece of kit.

Ultimately the Q is "What am I going/want/hope to do with it?"

If I am to say anything opinionated, it would be to be sure of what you want to do before taking any plunge. Sometimes - even with the likes of this - you may find that it is severely limited for what you might want to do or expect.

"Goto" is an interesting and potentially useful system, but if you don't align your scope properly, then I wonder where it will send you?

This is not a "Y" or "N" or any type of confirmation/advice against.
Am.

[mickyj]

Thanks. This is not going to be a quick purchase, I am learning and looking, then re-evaluating.

Ultimately I plan to hook my Canon EOS 5D via T mount and do some star gazing with reasonable Moon, planets and Nebula images.
I also aim to fit it with filters and take some sun shots.

[ameerat42]

That sounds like a good plan, Mick.
Am.

[ameerat42]

BTW Mickey, while looking 4 something else I came across this, and thought it interesting as a price comparison with any other place you might be searching on:
Agena Astro Products (http://agenaastro.com/telescopes.html?camptype=homepage). It is "stateside".
Am.

[mickyj]

Thanks for posting the link

[SteveInNZ]

Just in case it's still in the running, I'd just say 'no' to the 4SE. Optically, it's slow (f/13) and the Alt/Az type of mount is very limiting for astrophotography, both for tracking and stability. It would be a good visual only scope as it's easy to setup, has goto and a moderate aperture.

The EQ-3/150mm Newt is quite good and while not ideally matched for photography, would be a great visual setup. Because photography is more demanding, the general rule of thumb is to limit yourself to around half of the mounts' carrying capability. So you'd find it difficult to use that setup for long exposure photography as it is. However, the mount works just as well with a camera and lens instead of a telescope for deep sky stuff. There's plenty of good stuff to be had with 200-500mm focal length.
For the planets, the general technique is recording video and the tool for the job is either a webcam, capturing the video from a liveview DSLR at prime focus or using a point and shoot through an eyepiece (afocal). The telescope would be fine for that, although I think the weight of a DSLR would probably be too much for the focuser.

I guess the bottom line of that setup is that it's a good, complete visual setup. For astrophotography, I think that it would be a great learning setup (and I value that highly) but if you want to move to the next step, it's a 'start over' situation. The mount doesn't have the reserve capacity to take a guidescope which you'd probably need to image at the focal length of the scope that's supplied.

If you're shopping around that budget, I'd be tempted to go for a HEQ5 (http://www.bintel.com.au/Mounts---Tripods/EQ-Mounts/Skywatcher-HEQ5-Pro-GoTo-Mount/96/productview.aspx) and a cheap achromat (http://www.bintel.com.au/Astrophotography/Guidescopes/Orion-ShortTube-80--br-Guide-Scope-OTA/1055/productview.aspx) telescope for now. It's not the greatest, but it's fine for looking at the moon and larger planets. Add a webcam to photograph them. Use your camera and lenses for deepsky stuff. As funds and/or desire become more available, look at adding either the Newtonian or something like an ED80 (http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Refractor/SkyWatcher-SWED-80-Refractor/983/productview.aspx) which is a very popular scope for astrphotography. The little achromat you bought initially is an ideal guidescope and the mount will still be within its capability for photography.

Steve.

[mickyj]

Thanks,
No, the 4SE is no longer an option. Pity, I saw a really cheap second hand one. It was great to look into it and work out what it can / can't do as I have learnt so much in a rapid amount of time, through the research. Yes, F/13 is slow. I am looking F/5 and it seems that would be in the most commonly recommended range (F/5-F/6).

Thanks for the EQ-3/150mm Newt feedback. That was the type of info I needed to see. I was worried that a Canon EOS with a Telescope on a Eq3 pro would be too much weight :(

- - - Updated - - -


The mount doesn't have the reserve capacity to take a guidescope which you'd probably need to image at the focal length of the scope that's supplied.
.

I assume you mean the Camera + Telescope + guidescope is too much weight for the EQ3 ?

[mickyj]

Looking again at the ever expanding $$$, I suspect the Bintel BT200 f/5 HEQ5 Pro GOTO is a good choice.

http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Reflector/Bintel-BT200-f/5-HEQ5-Pro-GOTO/1006/productview.aspx

Putting together what I have learnt. A good GEM (Equatorial Mount) with the ability to hold some decent weight, a Goto system for locating stars and a good apperature (F/5 - 200mm) is the go. A good Refractor is the go but a Reflector will work fine.
If I get a kit, I will likely get the Tube rings included. I would still need to source a power supply for the Goto mount stepper motors and a counterweight if the setup is unbalanced. This kit also includes an extension tube, 1.25" ND Moon filter and 2 eye peices. Buying all this seperatly really adds up.

This is starting to look expsnsive but cheaper than putting this together bit by bit.

[ameerat42]

Mickey, it can be a$tronimical, all right (grin).

Looking at this scope setup, two things come to mind:
1) The connection of the scope saddle to the mount is by a single steel (sliding to redistribute weight) rod of modest size. In addition, how firmly does the saddle hold the tube?
2) The "straight-through" finder scope and its position would make for much head-butting against the tube, causing in turn, much head-butting and cussing as you knock it out of position (grin).

Apart from these two point, the rest looks good: f/5 and 1000mm is not a bad combination, and 8" diam starts to give you better resolution - at least potentially. Also, the rest of mount looks sturdy.

But don't 4-get the two points above, because any weakness is going to be noticed no matter how good the rest of the system may be.
Am.

BTW as an aside: I'd gladly pay the likes of this money if I could get something that ticked all the boxes. If you can, go and give it a shake and see how it goes.

[SteveInNZ]

Mmmm... Now you're cookin' :)

That's a nice setup. That is a manageable sized scope and would keep you going for a long time. It has a reasonable focuser too.
For a power source, grab a jump starter pack from Super Cheap Autos.
The connection point that Am mentions is called a dovetail and there are two standard sizes (Vixen and Losmandy). That is the smaller Vixen style. If you move up a price bracket, you'd start seeing the larger ones. I don't think you'll have any trouble with the Vixen.
I agree about the finder. Straight through is a pain. I don't use a finder at all now and much prefer a green laser pointer. I know you guys have some restrictive laws with them so you'll need to check that out if you are going to get one.

OK - So the bad points. It's a fast Newtonian so it will suffer from an optical aberration called coma which gives you egg shaped stars towards the outside of the frame. There is a solution called a "coma corrector". More $$$. You'll also need to learn how to (and possibly buy some aids) to collimate the mirrors. Scopes like that are quite fussy about collimation. It's not overly difficult but it's something to learn and a time consumer.
As it is, you'll have to use it "unguided". That means that you have to spend quite a bit of time setting it up to get the polar alignment as close as possible. Again, it's not difficult but is something to learn and something that takes time at each setup.
I have a Celestron equivalent of this mount and 950mm fl refractor and do 1-2 minute exposures without guiding.

In order to do longer exposures at that focal length you need to get into guiding which is another leap ($$) but will just be an add-on to what you have. Then you'll be capable of producing some stunning images.

IMHO, the bottom line comes down to you and how you cope with learning curves. If you're a "jump in the deep end and stick with it" person then you'll get a lot (of both frustration and reward) out of that setup. If you need see some results for encouragement, I would probably suggest the ED80 route.

You can always give Bintel a call. They can be quite helpful.

Steve.

- - - Updated - - -

I've posted a picture in the Astro photo section taken at 950mm unguided, just to whet your appetite.

Steve.

[mickyj]

Mickey, it can be a$tronimical, all right (grin).



Thanks, I laughed :)

It was very witty of you.

I see exactly what you mean about the finder scope. I might be able to use my cheap achromat as a guide scope as suggested by SteveinNZ. It is very light and would not hinder the mount (Weight wise) at all. It would just need some thought. There were two solutions, F/4 at 800mm or F/5 at 1000mm at Bintel. I suspected the F/5 at 1000 mm would be better. Unfortunately I am not close to a Telescope shop, so this makes it hard to see what I would be buying :(

With point 1) I assume you are worried that the weight in the saddle might make the rod slide back a little and hence ruin any stability in the photographs ?

With the saddle's actual grip in the tube ... I only have the photo at http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Reflector/Bintel-BT200-f/5-HEQ5-Pro-GOTO/1006/productview.aspx to go by.
2 x tube straps. The straps look to be a fair distance apart and the straps them selves look fairly thick. This should give it stability, not sure about strength. I guess I could start with these as the default straps and look at another accessory for a better connection later, if they don't work out. Is there something that does a better job you can link in so I can take a look ?

- - - Updated - - -


The connection point that Am mentions is called a dovetail and there are two standard sizes (Vixen and Losmandy). That is the smaller Vixen style. If you move up a price bracket, you'd start seeing the larger ones. I don't think you'll have any trouble with the Vixen.

I used Google images to search for "Vixen telescope dovetail" and "losmandy telescope dovetail" and now completely understand what you are talking about.

... Yes to the Green lasers :( ....Laws are laws

- - - Updated - - -



You'll also need to learn how to (and possibly buy some aids) to collimate the mirrors. Scopes like that are quite fussy about collimation. It's not overly difficult but it's something to learn and a time consumer.

As it is, you'll have to use it "unguided". That means that you have to spend quite a bit of time setting it up to get the polar alignment as close as possible. Again, it's not difficult but is something to learn and something that takes time at each setup.

In order to do longer exposures at that focal length you need to get into guiding which is another leap ($$) but will just be an add-on to what you have. Then you'll be capable of producing some stunning images.


For those that are hearing "collimation" for the first time (Like me) http://www.skyandtelescope.com/howto/diy/3306876.html

With your "unguided" comment, I had believed the Goto would take care of tracking etc after I manually found the best polar alignment? I thought this Bintel unit included the items required and there would be no extra $$$.
Can you clarify as there is likely something I have overlooked :(


>Edit

Hmm, I see what you mean by guiding. It seems most Autoguides can be added on later. http://www.bintel.com.au/Astrophotography/Autoguiders/Orion-Awesome-Autoguider-Package/404/productview.aspx
The ED80 puts the cost outside of my reach. The Autoguide will need to come later.

I take it with a Goto system, I can get it pointed at the celestial pole, use the goto to locate my target, turn on some form of tracking in it and it will start the motors and move with the earths movement.
Does the autoguide just make it more accurate ?

[ameerat42]

Quite a little sub-forum, this thread. It's good to have your input, Steve.
(An expansion of the "Ta" button.)
Am.

[SteveInNZ]

I take it with a Goto system, I can get it pointed at the celestial pole, use the goto to locate my target, turn on some form of tracking in it and it will start the motors and move with the earths movement.
Does the autoguide just make it more accurate ?

Yes. That's it exactly. The latest version of that goto system helps you align to the pole. It will slew to a star and tell you to center it. You do that a few times and it works out the error and then tells you to center a star with the adjustment knobs.

The two terms "tracking" and "guiding" aim to do the same thing (follow the motion of the stars) but do it in different ways.
Tracking relies on having a good polar alignment and then it runs the motor at exactly the right rate to counteract the Earths rotation. That's correct in theory but doesn't cater for things like refraction from the atmosphere or misalignment between the scope and the mount.

Guiding does it by using a camera and computer to look at a star and repetitively move the mount a tiny bit to keep it positioned in exactly the same place on its chip. It doesn't rely on the alignment and things as much as all of the errors have the same efect on the guidestar as the target.

A simple analogy would be driving a car down a straight road with your eyes closed (tracking) or eyes open (guiding). If you start off pointing in the right direction you'll be OK for a short distance but really, having your eyes open is the trick.

Steve.

[mickyj]

Quite a little sub-forum, this thread. It's good to have your input, Steve.
(An expansion of the "Ta" button.)
Am.
Yes, this post is going to be an awesome reference. I have been looking all over the internet for the sorts of information in this post and have been unable to find it.
Now we all have it as a record of exploration and teaching :)

[SteveInNZ]

Don't forget that other people will have different experiences and therefore different opinions. I've just shared mine and I'm far from an expert.

[mickyj]

The more I read, the more I like the Skywatcher HEQ5 PRO mount. It has high quality stepper motors (64 micro steps), upgraded mother-board, ST-4 autoguiding port for astrophotography and it is supplied with a Synscan GOTO handset.

I think I have sold myself on the idea. Now I just need to find the $$$ and start learning. I work in IT so taking on new things and learning them is something I have to do daily. At least this time it is going to be something less IT related :)

[mickyj]

Thanks to everyone for the information supplied so far. I have come up with another question and I suspect only those with expeariance can answer this one.

For Astrophotography, What would be better, a Reflector at 200mm x 800mm f/4 or one at 200mmx 1000mm f/5.

They are the same price :)

[SteveInNZ]

The focal length doesn't make much difference. There will be things that are too big or too small, no matter which you choose.
IMHO, the biggest difference in focal ratios would boil down to needing a coma corrector for f/4 and wanting one for the f/5. The difference in exposure time is the same as it would be for lenses of the same focal ratios. ie. about 60% longer. In reality, that doesn't matter either because no matter what, you'll always want more.

The most important thing to ask/check is that you can achieve focus with a DSLR. Most standard newtonians don't allow you to wind the focuser in far enough for photography. Some are sold as "Astrographs" (designed for photography) which are suitable. Others may require a lower profile focuser and/or moving the main mirror up the tube by an inch or two.

Also keep an eye on your weight budget too.

Steve.

[mickyj]

The focal length doesn't make much difference. There will be things that are too big or too small, no matter which you choose.
IMHO, the biggest difference in focal ratios would boil down to needing a coma corrector for f/4 and wanting one for the f/5. The difference in exposure time is the same as it would be for lenses of the same focal ratios. ie. about 60% longer. In reality, that doesn't matter either because no matter what, you'll always want more.

The most important thing to ask/check is that you can achieve focus with a DSLR. Most standard newtonians don't allow you to wind the focuser in far enough for photography. Some are sold as "Astrographs" (designed for photography) which are suitable. Others may require a lower profile focuser and/or moving the main mirror up the tube by an inch or two.

Also keep an eye on your weight budget too.

Steve.

As always ... Sage advice. Thankyou !!!

[ameerat42]

Hmm. Just saw this. Yes, agree with what Steve said.
Here's what I'd add in answer to the Q on which focal length: With the shorter FL you will have a wide(-er) field scope, and with the addition of a barlow/coma-correcter (they used to be combined for wide-field scopes) you will end up with say, FL of1600mm. With the longer one as your choice, well..., yes..., you can get (4-gotten what they're called, so) "field-wideners". But from what I remember, they're not so practical as having a wide field to start with.
Am.

[SteveInNZ]

A handy (free) tool for checking out how big your images will be is CCDCalc (http://www.newastro.com/book_new/camera_app.php/). You can setup your camera and telescope options and pick astronomical objects and it will show you how big they'll be in the frame.
You're opening up a can of worms here Am. :)
Coma is an error that is inherent in Newtonians and is determined by the focal ratio. Stars in the middle are round and stars at the outside look like comets. If you have an f/4 telescope, the diameter of the circle on the image plane with round stars is about 8mm. For an f/5 scope, that's 12.5mm, f/8 is 32mm, etc. The sensor of a crop camera is 15x22mm so coma is a non-issue for an f/8 telescope but is substantial for a f/4 scope.
A "coma corrector" or the much more expensive "paracorr" aim to just resolve the coma with no change in focal length. Another option is to use a much cheaper Barlow (like a 2x teleconverter) which multiplies the focal length by 2 and therefore the focal ratio for your f/4 scope is now f/8. No more coma but only a quarter of the field of view and longer exposures.

The other optical doo-dad in our bag tricks is the "focal reducer". As the name implies, they are the opposite of a barlow lens and reduces the focal length. They are most commonly used with Schmitt-Cassegrain Telescopes (SCT). The SCT has the advantage of aperture and focal length in a physically smaller package than a Newtonian. However, they are usually quite slow at f/10. eg. A 8" SCT has a focal length of 2032mm. If you put a 0.63x focal reducer in the image train, that becomes a 1280mm f/6.3 telescope. SCT's don't have issues with coma but do have a curved field so the focal reducer is usually designed as a reducer/flattener to fix that at the same time. There is also a 0.33x reducer for SCT's and it makes it a fast f/3.3 but it's not suitable for DSLRs.
There are also reducer/flatteners for refractors and they're usually matched to a particular focal length and ratio.

It looks to me like the f/5 scope is coming out ahead of the rest at this point and while a coma corrector will be in your future, I don't think it will be a limiting factor for a while.

Steve.

[mickyj]

Thanks.

the only confusion now is the website for Bintel recommend the F/4 for astrophotography. I will have to try and find time to call them today.

[ameerat42]

Thanks.

the only confusion now is the website for Bintel recommend the F/4 for astrophotography. I will have to try and find time to call them today.

What confusion? They say the same for the f/5 as well. In fact, I'd say they're all good for astrophotography...

Beware of sales speak when you call - as always, I mean.
Am.

[mickyj]

Oh, they must have added that. The description for the F/4 contained the words "Astrophotograraphy" and the F/5 did not.
Maybe my questions to them prompted them to change the description

- - - Updated - - -


A handy (free) tool for checking out how big your images will be is CCDCalc (http://www.newastro.com/book_new/camera_app.php/). You can setup your camera and telescope options and pick astronomical objects and it will show you how big they'll be in the frame.


this tool is awesome

[SteveInNZ]

Sure, the f/4 would be "better" but at least now you are aware of the compromises that might entail.
I'd ask them specifically, "Can I achieve focus with a DSLR with this telescope as it is supplied ?". It's a yes or no answer and they'll know exactly what and why you're asking.

[ving]

Taking everyone's advice into account I need to find:

An Eq mount/Tripod
Large Apperature Telescope
Goto computer control
Dark place
Canon EOS T adaptor

How about http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/Reflector/SkyWatcher-N150-EQ3-Pro-Package/581/productview.aspx

EQ3 pro with Goto
150 mm Reflector

Any thoughts ?not a bad setup... be aware that if you get a reflector like this you will have to move the primary mirror up the tube so that you can focus with your dslr (prime). go for a simalar mount and a ed80. the ed80 is a 80mm refractor and is great for imaging. it also fairly small. :) you will be ably to mount your camera to this easily without modifications (just t-adapter.)

goodluck.
MTFBWY...A!

[mickyj]

not a bad setup... be aware that if you get a reflector like this you will have to move the primary mirror up the tube so that you can focus with your dslr (prime). go for a simalar mount and a ed80. the ed80 is a 80mm refractor and is great for imaging. it also fairly small. :) you will be ably to mount your camera to this easily without modifications (just t-adapter.)

goodluck.
MTFBWY...A!


Thanks. Many are recommending the ed80, my budget does nto quite stretch far enough. I guess once I have the mount and other gear sorted, I can then save for an ED80 if I need to.

[SteveInNZ]

Buying used is also a viable option at the level you are looking at. Just as if you were looking at buying a 5D2 and L lenses, you can be a little more confident that the seller has looked after the gear. Not many people would buy a HEQ5 and ED80 to show Johnny the moon, but if they're upgrading to say an EQ6 and astrograph, you can get a very good deal. In this case the ED80 is a pretty safe bet, whereas a newtonian has a few more things to check (eg. the mirror coating, focuser travel, etc).
If you haven't found it already, Ice In Space (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum) is a good, active Australian astronomy forum with a useful for sale section.

Steve.

[mickyj]

Thanks. I have been looking around and not found anything 2nd hand yet. I have not rulled out 2nd hand :)

[mickyj]

I have started my ordering with Bintel. Now I am waiting like an expectant grandparent.
They inform me that the BT200 OTA units are designed to work with DSLR's at Prime focus without moving mirrors etc. I will be going the f/5 and will need to save for an ED80 another time :)
I have dropped the H-Alpha idea for now and am going with a CLS-CCD clip in. I will also get the Shoestring USB2 cable and a 5Amp power supply.
The solar filters (white light) and collminator devices will have to come later :)

[ameerat42]

Well good on yer, Mickey. One thing you shouldn't have is disappointment, from the sounds of it.

Am.

[mickyj]

Well good on yer, Mickey. One thing you shouldn't have is disappointment, from the sounds of it.

Am.

Only with thanks to yourself and so many others !

[SteveInNZ]

Congratulations. That sounds like a great setup that will get you going straight away and will keep you going for years to come. From there you can buy parts as you need or want them. You may find that you get used to collimating without a tool and never need to spend the money.
Welcome to the dark side.

[mickyj]

I had a false start today :( I got the CLS-CCD and it was a UHC-E in the container :(
Sending it back to Bintel

[ameerat42]

...I got the CLS-CCD and it was a UHC-E...(

I can see why you'd be up&6%#)s*e\t.

[nardes]

Hi mickyj
When you move from DSLR + camera lens astrophotography to DSLR + Telescope astrophotography on an tracking/auto guided equatorial mount, it is a significant jump in terms of the equipment, set up, technique and processing skills required to produce pleasing astro photos with nice, round stars that will inspire you to continue, rather than simply frustrate you with equipment limitations!
Have a look at this excellent website which explains the topic very well.
http://www.astropix.com/HTML/I_ASTROP/TOC_AP.HTM
Cheers
Dennis

[mickyj]

I can see why you'd be up&6%#)s*e\t.

At least it was not Bintels fault. It was sealed from Astronomik.

[mickyj]

Bintel shipped me the correct CLS-CCD. They were very appologetic and helpful.

I am sitting here looking at my T Adaptor, Shoestring USB for Heq4, CLS-CCD, Heq5 power supply and I have a Canon 500D full spectrum on it's way. I went with a 500d as it is lighter, has live view and 1.6 crop.
Due to the way Bintel handed the CLS-CCD mix up and the great advice I have received from them, I just ordered the rest. I have a great feeling about them. I also ordered even more so now I am truely anxious on the wait for the delivery!

I can't wait for the weeks ahead of learning. I know it is not going to be as easy as taking snaps and stacking. I think alignment is going to be my first challenge.
So, what else makes up my package?

I thought I would put in some prices etc so that anyone else reading this and begining down this road can see what this cost and can plan to beg the bank or wife for funds.

Camera dovetail mount $30 (Well worth it) to go onto the heq5
Astronomik Ha (Hydrogen Alpha) EOS filter clip filter $229 (Yes, I got one afterall. I have a full spectrum camera coming so I thought I might as well break the bank)
Collimator eyepeice and other bits $59 + $79
Smaller weight for DSLR $49 as the default weights are too heavy
bt200 /5 Reflector + heq5 pro $1699 (8" 200mm x 1000mm). ED80 Refractors were recommended but I could not afford it. I went for wide aperture, least distortion. The mount has Goto as part of the Pro setup.
8" white light - solar filter $179
A dew cap for this setup was not recommended.

I confirmed this reflector would work at prime with DSLR without focus issues. This unit is designed for DSLR with a slighly longer extension tube for viewing. The mirrors do not need moving.
They recommended software for alignment - eqmod/eqalign

So I think I got away cheaply for $2324 + Shipping.

Of course you need to add the camera cost, T adaptor, shoestring, CLS-CCD ($219) and power supply ($69). then you might need a laptop, comfy chair, some torches, carry bag etc :)

[ameerat42]

Somehow, I felt pleased on reading all this.

OK, next time I'm in SA I will definitely visit!!!

I agree about the H-alpha filter, esp with a modded camera.

Am.

[mickyj]

Somehow, I felt pleased on reading all this.

OK, next time I'm in SA I will definitely visit!!!

I agree about the H-alpha filter, esp with a modded camera.

Am.

Maybe you like sharing your knowledge and I am your (And others) Padawan learner

[SteveInNZ]

The H-alpha filter will mean that you can keep imaging while the moon is out which gives you a lot more useful nights than the rest of us (who are tucked up in bed :)).
There are quite a few options for polar alignment and everyone will swear by their preferred method.
I'm a big fan of EqAlign but could never reliably get the DSLR liveview to appear as a webcam. You might just want to get a webcam if you're going that route.
There's another tool called Alignmaster that works well with computerised mounts.
I thought I read somewhere that there was a new version of firmware for your mount that added a polar alignment function similar to the Celestron "All star polar align" function. That allows you to align the mount with just the hand controller.

[mickyj]

The H-alpha filter will mean that you can keep imaging while the moon is out which gives you a lot more useful nights than the rest of us (who are tucked up in bed :)).
There are quite a few options for polar alignment and everyone will swear by their preferred method.
I'm a big fan of EqAlign but could never reliably get the DSLR liveview to appear as a webcam. You might just want to get a webcam if you're going that route.
There's another tool called Alignmaster that works well with computerised mounts.
I thought I read somewhere that there was a new version of firmware for your mount that added a polar alignment function similar to the Celestron "All star polar align" function. That allows you to align the mount with just the hand controller.

Yes, the hand controller can align but everyone tells me it is close, just not close enough. If you take a long exposure it can leave blurry star trails. They suggest align with this first to get close and then use something else :)

[mickyj]

My Canon 500D full spectrum arrived today (From IceTrade)

WooHoo !

[SteveInNZ]

The clouds should start rolling in at any moment. :)

[mickyj]

And they have ......... Clouds and rain. Gives me time to play with the camera. Stock at Bintel is not all available until september anyway :(

[mickyj]

I have started a diary, of what I have learnt. Feel free to point out mistakes. I am just starting to play and learn.
http://www.mickyj.com/astrophotography.htm

I should mention, I have quoted some of you and also posted a link back to some photos.

[SteveInNZ]

That's an excellent idea and well written too.
I have some comments. :)

The link to my horsehead picture doesn't seem to be working for me. Thanks BTW <blush>.
My 40D isn't full spectrum modified, it has a replacement (Baader) UV/IR filter that extends the red out to H-alpha but is otherwise the same as the standard camera. A full spectrum mod replaces that filter with clear glass so you need to add something like the CLS-CCD to block the UV and IR.

I really dislike that diagram for finding the SCP. It's obviously done by someone in the northern hemisphere. Sigma Octanis !! Really ? It's Magnitude 6 and surrounded by other mag 6 stars in the middle of nowhere. It should be banned from the internet. :)
Steve's method that works in cities- The long axis of the southern cross points across the sky to another bright star - Achenar. Half way between the cross and that star is the SCP (within 3 degrees).

The T in T-mount stands for Tamron. It was a standardised lens mounting system before the adaptall series and has become a defacto standard for connecting cameras to third party things like telescopes. Note that it is a 42mm mount but a different thread pitch to the Pentax M42 mount so they don't interchange.

On to page 2 .....

Steve.

- - - Updated - - -

Phew ! Finished it (so far).
That's really good.

[ameerat42]

Opus Major (excuse poor Latin) Mick.
Am.

[mickyj]

Thanks for the feedback. I will make some changes tonight and check a few things out.
Thanks to everyone in this thread for helping me to learn.

I am still waiting on the major bits of my gear so there might be a gap in time before I add more :)

[mickyj]

I have updated parts of the pages :)

[SteveInNZ]

I still can't see the picture on your page and if I click on it I get this message "We're sorry, Flickr doesn't allow embedding within frames." I'm using Firefox 14.0 on WinXP but the message would infer that it's not a browser thing.

Steve.

[mickyj]

Hmm, I am using IE8 here at work and it comes up. Very odd.

[SteveInNZ]

I just tried with IE8 and can see it. Silly web stuff. :(

[mickyj]

I have made the image open a new browser from the link and hopefully it fixes your browser issue.
Also added a CLS-CCD image comparrison with Full spectrum.

Can't wait to actually do some astrophotography .. Oh well. Clouds here anyway
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8291/7724598480_21fc125c5a_b_d.jpg

[mickyj]

Still waiting for the equipment with anticipation :)

Count down to delivery is about 5 days from now ........

[mickyj]

It arrived!

http://s3.amazonaws.com/imgly_production/5422567/original.jpg

[ameerat42]

Whi-i-i-t! Whi-i-e-e-w!:D

[SteveInNZ]

Very nice. How are the muscles feeling ?

[mickyj]

I have to say .. sore. I tried to lift the mount + weights about 1 cm. Wow, it is heavy. The wind will need to blow hard to move this on a cold windy night.

[mickyj]

It was clear tonight, no wind, no clouds, no moon until late, I was in a completely black location, no houses lit around me ... Telescope was 60 kms away in my office.

Grrrr

[mickyj]

I have a new problem. They shipped my autoguider with a pair of imperial bolts and the Tube rings are Metric. You can possibly tell from the photos that the bolts are a little "proud".
I tried to screw them in. The soft cheap Chinease bolt just simply snapped. Now I have no autoguider and a bum tube ring.

I must say, Bintel have been excellent. They identified incorrect parts (Camera filters) they sent me, sent me the right parts. Found items they left out of the shipment by accident (ND filter and camera mount). And now with this issue, they said it was their fault and a new tube ring is on the way.

I wish the screwups did not happen in the first place but at least they are doing something about the issues !!

[ameerat42]

Can you get them out? There's a method using "eze-outs".
Am.

[mickyj]

Happily, a pair of multigrips got what was left in the rings, out.
I rang Bintel who appologised and are sending the correct bolts and new tube rings.

I also got the ND filter and camera mount they forgot to send me. I think that Bintel are awesome and this has just been one of those complicated orders that got a little messy.

[mickyj]

I started documenting my journey

http://www.mickyj.com/astrophotography.htm

Now I have my next expeariances to talk about .. for all those who want to travel this path.


Well, the learning journey so far has been rough. First there was the huge delay in getting the gear. Then the ND Moon filter and Camera mount is somehow not shipped to me and I had to chase them up. The wrong Canon EOS filters were sent to me. Finally everything arrived and I started assembling and ran into more issues.

Firstly the assembly instructions are not very good. Some sections are excellent, others leave large gaps which is hard for a newbie to work with. I had to guess a little with placing the mount onto the tripod legs. I had no idea about the Azimuth Adjustment Knobs and Altitude Adjustment T-bolts. I had no idea how to mate the top of the tripod and the mount. The first time I tried to put the two together, it did not go in straight due to the Azimuth Adjustment Knobs being in the way. I tried to line up the cavity with the bulk of the mount (Align metal dowel on the tripod head with the gap
between the azimuth adjustment knobs) but it was not square. The bolt on the underside seemed to screw in easily however, I was in danger of cross threading and had to pull it all out and start again. Then I had this little packet with Altitude Adjustment T-bolts, not mentioned anywhere in the assembly manual. I saw an image with them in place and took a guess (correctly) and got them into place.

Now I faced my next issue. I had a SkyWatcher 8" V Style Dovetail Bar supplied loosely and some form of Dovetail bar that came with the tube rings.
Which one goes on the mount? There are no instructions. To make things worse, I have an Orion Autoguider, with another Dovetail bar.
The one that comes with the tube rings seems to go into the mount fine. The rings go on but do not 100% fit at the bolt site. I then scrap that idea and use the 8" V Style Dovetail Bar. It has two grub screws at each end and a hole to put a bolt through. Again, being a first timer, I have no idea how this works.

Do I pull out the grub screws ? Do they attach to something? They are on a slant, they don't go in straight. I later worked out that they were for making small changes to the telescope alignment. They were not for fixing and connecting things. I finally get the SkyWatcher 8" V Style Dovetail Bar onto the mount and the tube rings on. I put in the telescope and it finally looks to be taking shape. The bar that comes with the tube rings goes on top and then I realise, the Autoguider will not work with this bar. I swap over for another V Style Dovetail Bar and start bolting in the soft metal bolts. The head on one snaps off. They are imperial bolts for a metric hole. That ruins one Tube ring. I had to use a pair of multigrips to pull out the remainder of the bolt. The thread in the tube ring is wrecked. I rang the supplier who apologised and sent me another tube ring and the correct bolts.

Finally I bolt the Orion Autoguider on. I realise that the finder scope is going to interfere with the Autoguider. Again, there are no instructions so I work out how to attach the finder to the Autoguider instead. This is great as the original position of the finder was awful.

Now I need to balance. I was smart enough to find the instructions that recommended I add the weights when I added the tube. The issue I now find, I can't balance the tube. The weight of the tube vs. weights is not correct. I need another 6 kg's ?

I don't have another 6 kgs. How did I get to this figure ? I found an old UPS with transformer and battery still intact and put it in a bag, dangling it from the weight bar. I weighed it, it was 6.5 kgs. With the UPS, RA balance was fine. Without, the tube wants to swing wildly and could make contact with the tripod legs. I don't want that !!!

Looks like I need to order yet more things to make this kit work. It worries me how heavy this setup is now getting. I know the mount can handle 15 kg's but I have no idea how much this is at. I can't find the 8" 200 F/5 OTA or Autoguider weights easily online.

All I want to do, after so many false starts, is see this darn thing work.

I plugged in the Synscan, turned it on (press enter/enter to bypass the warning message), did a rushed setup and then told it to align with the 3 star alignment. The scope moved, it looked excellent. The system works!

I must admit, at first I could not find the Synscan handset and the finder tube. The foam used to pack the mount had a hole for the handset formed in it and when I lifted it off and put it to one side, the handset remained fixed in place and went with the foam. The finder was in a white box the same colour as the foam holding the OTA in place. I almost over looked that.

The scope clocks are wrong as the screws are loose. I will figure that one out later. I have yet to check collimation and I am positive the Cone balance is wrong. Not sure what I can do there as the view assembly, finder and Autoguider are all off centre to the one side of the tube.

The polar scope Reticule seems best suited to the Northern Hemisphere but apparently I scan use it to locate the SCP.
With the latitude scale and longitude/latitude, I downloaded an app for my iPhone.

The only big win I have had is I now have a slightly damaged spare tube ring. It makes an excellent weight to move up and down the tube to balance it.
I can also balance for the eyepiece or DSLR really easy. I saw someone online fit such a spare for another purpose. They left the supporting tube rings loose so that the telescope could rotate. They then put the third tube ring on tight at the top so it rested against the loose rings. This meant they had a balanced scope that they could easily rotate.

It does mean it has added more weight to my scope. Not sure I like that.

Whilst trying to balance, I also released a tube ring when I did not mean to (I was tired I guess) and scratched the telescope body.
Whoops.

Anyway, this has been an interesting journey and I am learning lots. I have a long road to travel yet :)

I still have yet to actually look through the telescope and see a star !

[SteveInNZ]

It's all part of the adventure but it will seem worthwhile when you see/get your first faint fuzzie.

Steve.

[mickyj]

I totally agree. I must admit, it took me ages to balance the telescope. As I work in IT, I was wandering around our technical area trying various bits to weigh the telescope down. at one point I had 6 DVD rom drives, then 6 hard drives, then an LCD screen and ended up with perfect balance with a UPS battery :)

It was interesting !

[SteveInNZ]

Sometimes you have to be adaptable :)

92908
Note the approved solar filter.

Steve.

[ameerat42]

Yes..................
Am.

[mickyj]

That is an awesome photo. Works a treat up until someone needs a drink!

[mickyj]

Bought 2x Kincrome Large Safe Case's today.
One fits the heq5pro mount head, the other fits the autoguider and some bits :)

http://www.bunnings.com.au/products_product_kincrome-large-safe-case_2622.aspx

[mickyj]

Bumping and old topic (Sorry).

Finally, after getting the scope in late 2012, I have found time and had a play. I am the MD for my business and it means I don't take holidays. I sometimes get Weekends and Public Holidays :(
(Hence my long gap in communications and not playing much with the telescope... no I am not dead nor have I lost interest).

So, first light was unpacking in 2012 (Bintel BT200 200mm x 1000mm f/5 Newtonian on Heq5 mount with Synscan Goto), discovering my vantage point had very little sky available for
viewing, repacking. Waiting on Second light.

Second light over 1 year later was very disappointing (Last night, 4 Jan 2014). I know I have a lot to learn but my results were terrible.

I was well prepared. I had no moon (it passed from the sky early), no wind, no clouds, perfect temperture to be outside. 120+ degrees of view (at least). (I was at the beach so if I could get power cords long enough, I could have had close to 180 degrees .. big flat area) I had heaps of stars. I had my aeroguard, put a tarp down, had power, warm clothes if needed, my red torch, autoguider and finder scope aligned ... the darn scope would not correctly polar align using the Synscan and when trying to manually seek stars, I could not see anything. Just all black.

I saw more with my eyes and DSLR camera with a wide (24mm) Lens. I saw a perfect sharp pockmarked crescent moon through the scope (When it was in the sky) which seems to
indicate it was collimated ok (I took a photo and zoomed in, looked over the whole image, all looked good). I know I could better estimate the collimation looking at the stars and
checking out the light pattern surrounding them, but I could not see any. That is my big issue. Maybe I am pointing the scope at empty space (with stars to dim to see)?

Grrr. Only a few moonshots for my efforts (took hours to setup). Wanted some horse head nebula using a Ha enhanced DSLR Canon camera. The rest of the time I am here (At the
beach), it will be too windy .... grrr ...... . Orion is in the perfect position in the sky and I can see the southern Cross so I could find SCP easily enough.

I know I need patience for this but I had hoped to get somewhere after playing about. I know each time I take it out, I will learn more and it will take many outings to learn to use this gear correctly.

So, let's see if anyone on this thread can point out anything I missed or my mistakes (Which will be many). Any help, advice, ways to make it easier, appreciated.

I had the Orion Starshoot autoguider and Orion Shorttube 80 all working and aligned with the scope (Attached to a laptop). I had the finder all lined up.
I could see the moon in the PHD guiding software from the guide scope and through the telescope/finder.

I had a compass, so worked out where the magnetic south pole was. I started up stellarium and saw that the southern cross was slightly to the left of South. I estimated where the SCP
was and pointed the North leg of the tripod towards it. (HEQ5). I then waited for the sun to go down so I could see the southern cross and hence estimate better where the real SCP would be. (With the head/mount in place etc it is hard to shift the scope in the dark so I tried to get it fairly close in the light).

I balanced the Scope on the Dec and RA axis. As I was fitting a DSLR, I also balanced the tube as the Orion Shorttube and Autoguider had to offset the weight of the DSLR.

I had a bubble level tool so I checked everything was level (At the mount).

I set the altitude T bolts to the correct altitude. (latitude).
I tried setting the Dec scale/RA scale and Latitude scale correctly (This might be where I went wrong as the Synscan's home position likely got messed up?).

Instead of looking through the polar scope, I then tried to use the Synscan alignment process. I guess I tried to cheat the system and did not look at the reticule. I think that this is why my results were so weird. I had the RA axis pointing roughly at the SCP and the Telescope was also pointed at the SCP.

When I started the Synscan, I put in the time, longitude/Latitude and time zone. I started with the 3 star alignment, First star Sirius, The scope orientated to look at the ground.
The second star Acrux (in Crux, the Southern Cross), it pointed in completely the wrong direction. I wondered if I had the tube on upside down but the opposite end of the scope was
also nowhere near pointing in the correct place.

I see in the manual for the Synscan that you leave the settings on the mount alone, set the scope to home and then use the Synscan to align. Do I have this correct ?
Or, manually align and forget using the Synscan except for quick pointing to objects in its database. Don't align with it.
Or Drift align and again, forget using the Synscan except for quick pointing to objects in its database.

I see many people commenting to point the tube (OTA) at the SCP before turning on the mount and then do the Synscan align. I did do this but I suspect I lost power when the scope
was in the wrong position and the power came back (I kicked the plug). Maybe this messed up the home position.
Does the Synscan need to be told it is Southern? How would the goto know that you are pointing home at SCP and not NCP or does it not matter due to some cosmic symmetry?

Anyway, I can handle that I need to learn more about aligning. I can accept that something I did, must have created a false home position and when I went to align, the system was
never going to point correctly. At least I have learnt what needs to be done. Just need to do it.

The issue really comes down to not seeing anything. I could find no stars. I tried for ages with plossal 8mm/25mm and others. I saw nothing. I could see with the guidescope and finder
but just dark black through the scope. I attached the DSLR and it also picked up nothing. I tried focusing, nothing.

I realise that there can't be any faults as the telescope is nothing more than a few mirrors and tube of metal. Any major faults, I would not have seen the moon.

I waited for hours after sun down, only used a red torch and I could see a huge amount of stars so the issue was not me, getting used to the dark.

I am glad that I got prime focus with my DSLR for the moon however, I really wanted to use the scope to see some stars, even if only with my own eyes.

So, have I covered my bases in my setup? Am I correct that I likely upset my home possition and hence could not Align?
Any ideas why I can't find stars ? Maybe I did not try hard enough and look in enough places ?

[SteveInNZ]

Have you made any progress on this Micky ?
I don't have a Synscan mount but the principles are common across mounts and there are a lot of things that you can do during the day to make life easier in the dark.

Steve.

[mickyj]

I am sorry to say no. Where I was staying was windy for about 5 days and I could not setup the scope. I only had the one night so I packed it all up.

Unfortunatly where I live, I can't see much sky. I need to visit my parents more :) They live by the beach.
I am making my next plans.

I have updated the Synscan to the latest firmware and I used my PST on the eq5 and that seems to have worked ok.
I saw some big sun spots and know that it must have simply come done to leaning to use the equipment correctly.

I just got myself a beauty dish so at least I have that to play with for a while :)

[mickyj]

Hello,

One of my staff is bugging me (motivating me) to get back out for my third attempt. So, did anyone have feedback for me?

Does the Synscan need to be told it is Southern? How would the goto know that you are pointing home at SCP and not NCP?

By manually setting the Dec scale/RA scale and Latitude scale correctly, would this have messed up the Synscan's home position?
As I mentioned, I sew in the manual for the Synscan that you leave the settings on the mount alone, set the scope to home and then use the Synscan to align. Do I have this correct ?

I guess not using the polar scope before I use the Synscan alignment process, is a bad idea? As the Reticule is for NCP I thought it would be painful to use.

Would it be recommended to manually align and forget using the Synscan except for quick pointing to objects in its database. (Don't align with it.)
Or Drift align and again, forget using the Synscan except for quick pointing to objects in its database.

Thanks for any comments. I want to have more success this time :)