Local purchase vs grey import - Canon 16-35mm

[kobeson]

Hi,
I have decided I am buying a 5D3, and I ordered it for $3,520 in the recent sale at Myer.
While ordering, I managed to get a decent quote for a 16-35 mk ii to go with it - $1,700.
It is under $1,500 from Hong Kong (DWI has it for $1499 I think). I am wondering people's thoughts on buying local with local warranty for $200 more - or is it worthwhile importing to save that $200?
What is the deal with customs tax etc?
Cheers,
Daniel

[William W]

$1499.00 Plus 10% GST ($149.90) equals a total of $1648.90 and that’s $51.10 cheaper and also the purchase of a lens without a warrantee which will be honoured by Canon in Australia.

You will be spending over five grand and you could choose to keep the sale, inside Australia. . . ? ? ?
50 bucks is 1% of that total spend – for me it is a no brainer.
Opinions will vary, though.

WW

[junqbox]

Do you want that camera store on the corner to be there again in the future when you want something else?

As per above, for $50, may well buy it here.

[LJG]

Don't forget about delivery costs as well. By the time you add that it just isn't worth it. If I was doing it I would buy local and get the warranty. I have only ever had to return one lens and having local warranty makes it just so easy. Just my 2c worth anyway.

[JM Tran]

$1499.00 Plus 10% GST ($149.90) equals a total of $1648.90 and that’s $51.10 cheaper and also the purchase of a lens without a warrantee which will be honoured by Canon in Australia.

You will be spending over five grand and you could choose to keep the sale, inside Australia. . . ? ? ?
50 bucks is 1% of that total spend – for me it is a no brainer.
Opinions will vary, though.

WW


Cant remember a time I have paid for customs/import duty/gst from DWI yet. So for the price they quote is always the end price you will pay.

In this case with only a marginal difference in savings - $200 - you might as well buy locally.

[kobeson]

Do you want that camera store on the corner to be there again in the future when you want something else?

As per above, for $50, may well buy it here.

I want that camera store to offer lenses at a reasonable price - Australians pay a lot more for these products than some other countries do.

[kobeson]

Don't forget about delivery costs as well. By the time you add that it just isn't worth it. If I was doing it I would buy local and get the warranty. I have only ever had to return one lens and having local warranty makes it just so easy. Just my 2c worth anyway.

I was looking on eBay and it includes free delivery.

Yes it would be typical if I went grey this time if I had to return this lens for warranty - I have bought 2 greay imports in the past and had no warrany issues (Canon 10-22 & 100L macro).

[kobeson]

$1499.00 Plus 10% GST ($149.90) equals a total of $1648.90 and that’s $51.10 cheaper and also the purchase of a lens without a warrantee which will be honoured by Canon in Australia.

You will be spending over five grand and you could choose to keep the sale, inside Australia. . . ? ? ?
50 bucks is 1% of that total spend – for me it is a no brainer.
Opinions will vary, though.

WW


Cant remember a time I have paid for customs/import duty/gst from DWI yet. So for the price they quote is always the end price you will pay.

In this case with only a marginal difference in savings - $200 - you might as well buy locally.

If I knew there was no chance and it was a $50 difference, I would not have made this thread.

But I have heard what JM Tran is talking about, so I was really comparing the $1500 vs $1700 in this instance - and if by chance I do require a payment, then it will still be $50 cheaper. But is it worth it if I don't get a local warranty?

That is my question, and JM I tend to think the way you do but I just wanted to hear opinions. If it were 4-500 diff I wouldn't even consider buying locally, but 200 is a fine line... only a 12% saving...

[JM Tran]

If I knew there was no chance and it was a $50 difference, I would not have made this thread.

But I have heard what JM Tran is talking about, so I was really comparing the $1500 vs $1700 in this instance - and if by chance I do require a payment, then it will still be $50 cheaper. But is it worth it if I don't get a local warranty?

That is my question, and JM I tend to think the way you do but I just wanted to hear opinions. If it were 4-500 diff I wouldn't even consider buying locally, but 200 is a fine line... only a 12% saving...



Yeah mate, most of my equipment has been bought directly overseas as I travel a lot for shoots, or via DWI when I am back in Aus. One of my biggest cash outlay ever for a grey import was a new Canon 5D2 I bought in Shanghai - in one of the best camera buildings in the world - for $2600, this was 2 years ago. Its one of my work horse cameras with over 100k actuations on it and has seen snow, deserts, jungles etc and still works fine and never had a problem. I saved over a grand by buying from overseas and bringing it back home - I can justify that kind of savings. But for anything where I only have to pay 100 to 200 bucks more for electronic goods - I tend to stay locally.

[junqbox]

I want that camera store to offer lenses at a reasonable price - Australians pay a lot more for these products than some other countries do.

Yes, and we get paid higher than a lot of other countries. Check out the minimum wage in the US.

Swings and roundabouts.

[kobeson]

Yes, and we get paid higher than a lot of other countries. Check out the minimum wage in the US.

Swings and roundabouts.

*removed - personal attack*

[kobeson]

Yeah mate, most of my equipment has been bought directly overseas as I travel a lot for shoots, or via DWI when I am back in Aus. One of my biggest cash outlay ever for a grey import was a new Canon 5D2 I bought in Shanghai - in one of the best camera buildings in the world - for $2600, this was 2 years ago. Its one of my work horse cameras with over 100k actuations on it and has seen snow, deserts, jungles etc and still works fine and never had a problem. I saved over a grand by buying from overseas and bringing it back home - I can justify that kind of savings. But for anything where I only have to pay 100 to 200 bucks more for electronic goods - I tend to stay locally.

Great advice, really appreciate it.

With the prices here coming down a bit recently, I think it definitely might help pursuade people to buy locally, but for a saving like you made on your 5D2 I would do exactly the same thing!

[Bennymiata]

How did you get the 5D3 for only $3520 from Myer?
I just checked out their website, and they don't even have a 5D3 listed.

If I can get one for that amount, I'll go there today and buy one!

[kobeson]

How did you get the 5D3 for only $3520 from Myer?
I just checked out their website, and they don't even have a 5D3 listed.

If I can get one for that amount, I'll go there today and buy one!

Benny, I would call the biggest Myer in Sydney and ask about the 20% off sale they had on Saturday, and see if they will still honour it. I called yesterday here in Melbourne, and the guy I spoke to said they would still offer the deal yesterday, fingers crossed they do for you today also!

I know it isn't listed, I looked also, but after phoning they definitely do stock it!

Good luck! :)

[treefrog]

I think that all the " L" lenese have international warranty

[kobeson]

I think that all the " L" lenese have international warranty

They did have international warranty, however Canon changed this in November 2011 - I don't have a link, but if you search for their T&C it will point out no international warranty anymore.

It's a pity Canon have done this IMO.

[Bear Dale]

I think that all the " L" lenese have international warranty


Not anymore they don't.

[treefrog]

Thank Kobeson
I was very close to buying a gray import 70-200 F2.8 a little while back if I hadnt found a second hand lens
Dont think I would be importing without the warranty
To get around import tax for items over $1000 the seller sends you a dodge receipt with the package saying amount payed $890. Then posts you an envelope with the real receipt amount payed $1500

[kobeson]

Thank Kobeson
I was very close to buying a gray import 70-200 F2.8 a little while back if I hadnt found a second hand lens
Dont think I would be importing without the warranty
To get around import tax for items over $1000 the seller sends you a dodge receipt with the package saying amount payed $890. Then posts you an envelope with the real receipt amount payed $1500


Yeah the lack of local warranty makes it tougher to import now - depite the fact I've never had to send anything in for warranty repair. Glad local prices have dropped a little, well if you wheel and deal they can get closer than 12 months ago anyway.

[William W]

If I knew there was no chance and it was a $50 difference, I would not have made this thread.

But I have heard what JM Tran is talking about, so I was really comparing the $1500 vs $1700 in this instance - and if by chance I do require a payment, then it will still be $50 cheaper. But is it worth it if I don't get a local warranty?

That is my question, and JM I tend to think the way you do but I just wanted to hear opinions. If it were 4-500 diff I wouldn't even consider buying locally, but 200 is a fine line... only a 12% saving...

When previously I answered, I understood that you were harnessing opinions and that is why you started the thread.
I also understood that you were unsure of whether the GST would be payable.
And I also know that DWI and some customers previously have got around GST: but that fact doesn’t mean that GST is not payable on a $1499.00 imported item.


so I was really comparing the $1500 vs $1700 in this instance
So for clarity, my opinion is still – “it is a no brainer”.
You might prefer a more detailed Rationale:
1. Past performance re GST / invoicing is not a guarantee of future performance.
2. Lenses fail or need a claim of some sort: – I’ve had 1 canon lens in 15 (and one Canon camera body in six) . . . of course that’s no indication of any expected trend; the next toss doesn’t have those odds, anyway.
3. Maximum “possible” saving is $200 . . . minimum known saving is $50.
4. Point three to me is like betting 50 to win 150, that’s only 3 to 1 and still no warrantee. 3 to 1 odds to my way of thinking, is not a“good bet” in this scenario.
5. Point three could be interpreted that I will be paying either $200 or $50 for the warrantee, and those odds are 2 to 1.
6. I get a chance to spend in Australia.

On the balance of points 1 to 6, I would purchase that lens, here.
As previously mentioned, opinions will vary: and yes I understood that it was your wanting to read those varied opinions, why you started the thread.
Post #2 gave abbreviated rationale of the opinion and not intended to start a "Wages in Australia" discussion: however buying in AUS is part of my thinking - yes.

WW

[kobeson]

Yeah it is good logic, and it is exactly the way I had been thinking prior to comeing on here about it, don't let me make you think it wasn't. The local warranty for between $50-$200 when spending $1700 on a lens is almost a no brainer for me too, but I just thought I would gather some opinions both ways.

Cheers :)

[MissionMan]

I have used a mix of overseas and local. All my core gear (d700, 70-200,24-70 etc) I bought locally due to warranty and some of the smaller items that had massive pricing discrepancies I purchased overseas. My 1.4x was $350 overseas vs $650 locally, my tripod was about 50% of the price, etc. if its a 50% reduction on something which is not likely to be a problem area, I'd take a risk.

[JM Tran]

When previously I answered, I understood that you were harnessing opinions and that is why you started the thread.
I also understood that you were unsure of whether the GST would be payable.
And I also know that DWI and some customers previously have got around GST: but that fact doesn’t mean that GST is not payable on a $1499.00 imported item.


So for clarity, my opinion is still – “it is a no brainer”.
You might prefer a more detailed Rationale:
1. Past performance re GST / invoicing is not a guarantee of future performance.
2. Lenses fail or need a claim of some sort: – I’ve had 1 canon lens in 15 (and one Canon camera body in six) . . . of course that’s no indication of any expected trend; the next toss doesn’t have those odds, anyway.
3. Maximum “possible” saving is $200 . . . minimum known saving is $50.
4. Point three to me is like betting 50 to win 150, that’s only 3 to 1 and still no warrantee. 3 to 1 odds to my way of thinking, is not a“good bet” in this scenario.
5. Point three could be interpreted that I will be paying either $200 or $50 for the warrantee, and those odds are 2 to 1.
6. I get a chance to spend in Australia.

On the balance of points 1 to 6, I would purchase that lens, here.
As previously mentioned, opinions will vary: and yes I understood that it was your wanting to read those varied opinions, why you started the thread.
Post #2 gave abbreviated rationale of the opinion and not intended to start a "Wages in Australia" discussion: however buying in AUS is part of my thinking - yes.

WW


Have you bought extensively from DWI before, with goods over $999AUD? Im just curious to know.

[arthurking83]

Even if the GST payment is missed by customs, the percentage difference is at that kind of level where I agree with WW about the balance of the equation..... buying in Aus seems to make more sense in this instance.

To slightly add fuel to the fire on the unwanted topic of keeping the money in Aussie hands and jobs, is that if we all make a slight effort to weight up the advantages and disadvantages of either choice(re buying locally vs overseas) then the more we buy locally, hopefully the cheaper it becomes too(at some point).

So the decision isn't simply a matter of if not or if so, but also what would happen if I did, as opposed to if I didn't.

I'm not opposed to the idea of purchasing from overseas as opposed to locally, but I always balance the decision of the location of my purchases with that of the cost saving and the community benefit, as well as the urgency factor.

Nothing quite like getting the item the moment you hand over the money(or credit, or whatever).

Forsaking a $50 saving on a $250 item, I'm going to buy mine from a local store.
I get to try it before I buy it, making sure that it works as I want it too .. and if I feel like it, I may even try another similar item .. just to confound the sales rep and make them work for their money!!
(if I get the chance to do so in immediate future I'll post the resulting images, and I have a feeling that the item I do end up buying may not actually be as great as the other (similarly specced)item I want to try :confused:)

I know how much this gear sells on DWI, and DWI already make enough money.. I want my money to go to 'another' ... any other cause in this instance .. they'll eventually get some of my other money, but the saving on this gear will have to be substantial($500 or more!!).

[bricat]

I have bought from O/S and was required to pay customs/gst even though the package stated it was valued at under $1000.00. Customs know the value of goods and if your package is randomly checked you will be asked to provide a receipt for the goods before released. Not withstanding this I still saved hundreds of dollars from buying locally. My goods are exacly the same as if purchased in Australia and work perfectly. I have an Australian contact for warranty work so I can't see a problem with warranty. As far as keeping jobs for Australians, that has gone out the door with the announcement of 1700 jobs from O/S for the mining industry being approved by our elected government. If they(the government) are not interested in keeping jobs for Australian workers why should I or anyone else make a stand which costs me/you/us an extra $50.00 or more. My purchase was done a couple of years ago now and the local market has become more competitive. DWI list the Mk3 at $3535.00 and 16-35 at $1495.00 If you pay gst plus customs on the $1495.00 it will be more than $1700.00.
In your case the purchase of the camera has been great as far as price goes but now you need to way up the chance of being stopped by customs for the lens. Perhaps a bit more negotiating to get $50.00 off the lens purchase would leave you well infront and help to keep jobs in good old Aussie. JMHO

[William W]

I have bought two items from DWI.

BUT - My experience with the Company or my lack of experience with the Company, wouldn't have changed my answer and had absolutely no bearing on what I wrote.
Neither does any others' experiences with the company have any bearing on my answer, as I indicated.



The reasons are:
Neither I, (nor any other customer of the Company) have absolute control in the situation and my answer was predicated on variables which would be out of my control.
Hence the question the OP posed is an evaluation of the "odds" -as I colloquially wrote.
And IMO the odds in this case are: not favourable, which is also what I wrote.

As this discussion seems now to require even more detailed notation of my thinking and my rationale:
The one point I did not previously make, is that it is quite specific that no matter what experiences I or anyone has already had with the Company; the Company does have control of the situation pursuant to the Company’s Position in regard to Australian GST and or other duties and taxes, and this position is clearly outlined in the Company’s Policy of TERMS and CONDITIONS.


“14. Pricing and availability

The price for the goods shall, unless otherwise agreed, be the price set out on the dispatch confirmation. The price for the goods quoted on the website shall be exclusive of all costs of carriage and insurance and applicable import Tax/GST and duty which the buyer shall pay in addition for further information regarding this please see the Australian Customs Web Site (http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=5549). Shipping and insurance costs are calculated at checkout.”

REF: DWI Website FAQ Para14(extract), op cit


WW

[William W]

I just thought I would gather some opinions both ways.
Cheers :)

You're welcome.

[Bennymiata]

I've bought lots of stuff grey, from different suppliers,some packages being worth over $2K, and I have never had to pay and other charges or GST.

Where I buy most of my stuff from, they offer anunconditional 12 months Australian warranty too.
Once I had a problem with something, and they sent a courier around to pick it up, and brought me a brand new replacement.

[larrywen]

very well discussion.

Generally, the price is NOT so important. If you get something you like, you will soon forget how much it has cost but appreciate the good performance. If you get something not as good as you have expected, no matter how cheap it, it is a waste of money :D

[Art Vandelay]

There's one benefit being had lately, is that the gap between grey & official imports is closing.

[ricktas]

I have bought from O/S and was required to pay customs/gst even though the package stated it was valued at under $1000.00. Customs know the value of goods and if your package is randomly checked you will be asked to provide a receipt for the goods before released.

To Add: Customs also have a database of prices in Aus (the RRP price), so if you get a new Canon 5DIII and it is marked as $800.00, and they check. All charges are at their determined price, that calculations are done, not on the $$ on your order, of the conversion amount at the time. So you could end up paying fees and duties on an amount that is more than the $$ price you can even buy it for locally. Customs can determine the price at their discretion.

[KeeFy]

very well discussion.

Generally, the price is NOT so important. If you get something you like, you will soon forget how much it has cost but appreciate the good performance. If you get something not as good as you have expected, no matter how cheap it, it is a waste of money :D

I don't know how deep your pockets are... but i think i speak for most of us where the price IS important. Why? Cause we have bills to pay and save for rainy days or towards buying a house, car, etc. $200 savings is still savings. But at what cost is the savings? IMO, for $200 the OP will be happier buying it locally, having local warranty, instant gratification and a peace of mind not having to possibly pay more in the end and still have overseas warranty.

[KeeFy]

To Add: Customs also have a database of prices in Aus (the RRP price), so if you get a new Canon 5DIII and it is marked as $800.00, and they check. All charges are at their determined price, that calculations are done, not on the $$ on your order, of the conversion amount at the time. So you could end up paying fees and duties on an amount that is more than the $$ price you can even buy it for locally. Customs can determine the price at their discretion.

So i've read! Some people were winging on whirlpool forums that they got pinched by customs and paid the 10% on the RRP and not the item price they paid or even the local price. Ended up more expensive than buying locally without the warranty.

[kobeson]

There's one benefit being had lately, is that the gap between grey & official imports is closing.

Yes, this is a great thing - it is about time, and it is making grey look less appealing. I started this thread with a lens on order at Myer, and I was always more likely to fulfill that order, but I just wanted to see what people still thought about the price differences. 12 months ago there was no question if you ask me.

[kobeson]

To Add: Customs also have a database of prices in Aus (the RRP price), so if you get a new Canon 5DIII and it is marked as $800.00, and they check. All charges are at their determined price, that calculations are done, not on the $$ on your order, of the conversion amount at the time. So you could end up paying fees and duties on an amount that is more than the $$ price you can even buy it for locally. Customs can determine the price at their discretion.

Yes exactly right, and I wouldn't import anything worth more than what I had in mind (around $1500 AUD) because the more it costs, the heavier and the higher the risk. In saying that, I have a friend who imported a 5D2 12 months ago and also a Canon 70-200 mkii, which ways a tonne - and he has never paid any GST or import duties.

[kobeson]

I don't know how deep your pockets are... but i think i speak for most of us where the price IS important. Why? Cause we have bills to pay and save for rainy days or towards buying a house, car, etc. $200 savings is still savings. But at what cost is the savings? IMO, for $200 the OP will be happier buying it locally, having local warranty, instant gratification and a peace of mind not having to possibly pay more in the end and still have overseas warranty.

Yes, $200 to me is still $200 - especially now my wife is home on maternity leave. But as you also say, $200 to buy an Australian warranty and pickup ability is not much to pay on top of $1500 really.

[arthurking83]

Yes, $200 to me is still $200 - especially now my wife is home on maternity leave. But as you also say, $200 to buy an Australian warranty and pickup ability is not much to pay on top of $1500 really.

I'm not one to normally question someone's purchasing habits, but if $200 is a possible financial burden now that your wife is home on maternity leave, one has to question the wisdom of the entire $1500 purchase in the first place! :confused:

Like I said tho, you have your reasoning, and you take your own gambles in life, but imagine the situation where there is a defect and a warranty claim has to be exercised, it'll start to cost you at least some money, at least in the safe and quick postage back to the point of origin .. and so on.

[kobeson]

I'm not one to normally question someone's purchasing habits

Sound advice I think. :p

Just saying in anybody's hand $200 is better than nothing - expecially when the budget is being stretched...

[arthurking83]

.....

Just saying in anybody's hand $200 is better than nothing - expecially when the budget is being stretched...

As already said:

The 'gamble' of whether to attempt to extract this $200 saving is entirely yours, and it's a simple matter stating that it may come at a cost of some kind.

I haven't interpreted any of the advice/opinions given so far that could be construed as abrasive, derogatory, nor out of context.

It's actually quite a big deal this notion of buying online from overseas, and if we don't temper this method of purchasing with any sense of calmness or balance, it may end up not being an option for purchasing at all at some point in the future.
It may end up becoming the only method of purchasing goods!

A not so impossible future scenario could be one where it's just no longer viable to be a storefront retailer any longer as the majority of the population is purchasing products from overseas, and online!

While this may sound like an idealistic world initially, I personally would rather have the option of going into a store to peruse the goods I may be interested in purchasing.

Close the retailers and then the importers disappear.
Get rid of them too, and you have no local backup or support services. Having this consumer item repaired(even under warranty) may end up costing too much in terms of shipping relative to the value of the item.


.. etc, etc

What would then hold back the online retailers from then bumping up their prices to the point where the (now long gone) local importers and retailers were selling these goods for in the first place?
I see a situation where it'd be easier for the online retailers to form maffioso syndicates, or cartels, where they all 'agree' to price scheduling as they see fit, without any possibility of reigning in, as they don't answer to any local consumer laws re: price fixing.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't buy this item from any online source(DWI or other) because this sale will break Canon Aus's spine and send them broke, but just as a general thought..

We simply have this ... almost automatic ... preference for purchasing goods from online sources simply because we save ourselves some money. But I don't think anyone has really stopped to contemplate the possible damage it may eventually do the process of purchasing good from online sources(especially from overseas!), where the government will eventually lose out on A LOT of GST revenue if current trends continue through to the long term future.

How many governments have we known that sit idly by and watch revenue streams slow disappear into nothingness? ;)

Some future government action will almost certainly intervene to 'brick wall' this stampede to purchase online and from overseas.

Poor 'ol Harvey Norman has been twiddling governmental ears for a long time now, and they probably have no clout in amongst the upper echelons of a Labour government(hence their inaction)...

but them and their stash of millions ... appropriately donated towards a future Liberal Party's election campaign ... may end up one day changing the way we purchase via offshore e-tailers ;)

I think I've already said(and this is to not sway your decision.... but in this instance the amount of money saved here, I don't think is worth taking any chances(in terms of problem goods and the hoops required to correct the situation).
if the amount saved was more like in the $500 ... even $400 range for this level of expense, then my choice could possibly change too.

And the funny thing is too.. sometimes it's actually a nice feeling going into a store, and getting a discount just because you have a wad of cash waving in the air(or not!!) to entice the sales person to take it(my reduced offer), rather than leave it!! :D

Go in with cash!! $1600 of it .... get the $1700 price down to $1600 ... CASH!!! .. see if this helps any. Don't go in with a nice shiny new gold or platinum coloured credit card .. they cost the retailer money.

.. anyhow, just some thoughts (on the state of the economy)

[bricat]

".. anyhow, just some thoughts A not so impossible future scenario could be one where it's just no longer viable to be a storefront retailer any longer as the majority of the population is purchasing products from overseas and online!"

Back in '65 when I was a young apprentice chef a lot of the goods were ordered by 'phone, sight unseen including fresh meat,fish,vegetables and equipment. Today this is already being done by the general public via "farmers fresh market" and other stores. Coles/woollies do orders online and deliver to homes with the goods being unseen at time of purchase. My point being it is a matter of WHEN not IF retailers close up their storefront shop. When is the last time you entered a bank? You can buy a house without physically going to look at it.(done that) Bought the 7D site unseen. It maynot be in my lifetime for a complete take-up but it will happen. And to finish, delivery from HK etc has been WAY quicker than delivery from Australian sites. So it will boil down to price and one hand and service delivery on the other from any retailer here or O/S. JMHO