Yellow washed out?

[Keen4Kritters]

Hi Guys Im resonably new to photography and I was wondering if you could help me out. Im Using a Canon 500d with a 150mm Sigma Macro lens and a 580exII canon speedlite. I recently got the opportunity to photograph some really nice yellow Ridge Tailed Monitors (type of goanna). However ever time I would take a picture the yellow seemed to become really washed out becomming more of a cream colour and the small amounts of red between the scales really popped out. I tryed various settings on the camera and on the flash. I even tryed without the flash in the natural sun but maintained a similar problem. If anyone has any suggestions on how to fix this problem it would be greatly appreciated. Also if anyone could edit these photos to have less red and more a yellow and black theme that would be great (as can be seen to some degree in the photos there is a white stripe down the back but the yellow on the sides is just far more intense in person if anyone could fix that). Pics attached.
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu254/Keen4Kritters/IMG_8588.jpg
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu254/Keen4Kritters/IMG_8579.jpg
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu254/Keen4Kritters/IMG_8628.jpg
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu254/Keen4Kritters/IMG_8638.jpg
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu254/Keen4Kritters/IMG_8647.jpg

PS I also attached some pics I got when wetting down the lizards if anyone is interested, I know they arn't of the standard of other pics on here but I quite like them.
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu254/Keen4Kritters/IMG_8568.jpg
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu254/Keen4Kritters/IMG_8571.jpg

Regards In Advance.

[WhoDo]

Are you shooting in RAW and converting to JPG or are you shooting in JPG? If it's the latter, I'd look at White Balance settings on the camera. It's usually better to shoot in RAW if you can. I don't know about Picasa's RAW conversion capability but you could download GIMP 2.8 for free and get UfRAW to go with it. Then you have infinite possibilities for adjustment. With JPG you have to live with the camera software's interpretation of what it thinks you want!?!? :confused013

[Mark L]

If you're using RAW, then you should be able to play with white balance using DPP, the software that came with your camera. If you're using Jpeg, I don't have a clue.:confused013
Really like #6 :th3: Would be better with some more yellow.:D

[William W]

It appears you have a few issues to attack.
I do not think that shooting “raw”, will of itself be the best solution for you.

You appear to be shooting with Flash in Open Shade, and in most of the shots (I think all) the Flash is just over exposing the SOME of highlights of the animal.
Those highlights which are overexposed are the soft yellow shades that you want to show in their “true” colour – so, in post production you will not really ever get those overexposed areas a soft yellow.

It appears also that the Flash is being used in some Automatic Mode and as such it appears that it is acting as FLASH as FILL – which is typical of most Automatic Flash Modes: and this brings us to the second issue, which is the mixture or BALANCE of the Ambient and the Flash and the resultant problem with setting a White Balance in the CAMERA (or Colour Correction in Post Production).

Typically the areas dominated by Open Shade will appear BLUE when compared to the Flash Fill. Note that BLUE is the OPPOSITE of YELLOW. And note how in some of your shots the rear of the Goanna is becoming BLUEISH

However, IF the Flash has the correct power to expose the Subject; and if the Flash's illumination is about 1stop greater EV, than the Ambient – the Colour Temperature setting for the Camera can be “Flash” and the Subject should appear correct in colour.

(Technically - with respect to the SUBJECT the Flash becomes the KEY LIGHT and not a FILL LIGHT).



This hypothetical example might make this clearer:

You meter AMBIENT light falling on the Goanna and you calculate Exposure is: F/5.6 @ 1/100s @ ISO100
You then set the Flash MANUALLY (i.e. by DISTANCE and POWER) for exposure: F/8 @ ISO100.
And you set the Camera to F8 (@ 1/100s @ ISO100).
And you set the Camera WB to “FLASH” (or 5500°K)

The Goanna will be correctly exposed by the Flash and should exhibit “correct” colour as the Flash will be 1Stop dominate, compared to the Ambient Light falling on the Goanna’s Skin.

Shooting raw will certainly also be an advantage – but correctly exposing for the Flash Illumination and keeping the Flash as the Key Light as described, will make the tweaking of the Colour Balance FOR THE GOANNA a thousand times easier in Post Production.



ANOTHER method of achieving the same outcome is metering the Ambient as described, stoping down about 1 Stop; use the Flash in ETTL Mode and then ride the FLASH EXPOSURE COMPENSATION.

The issue with this method is, you will need to practice how much FEC is to be used for each shot and that will be directly proportional to how much of the Goanna is in the frame – so if you want to try this method then begin by shooting test shots with about the same amount of animal in the frame and in the same area of the frame to get you “staring point – FEC”.


WW

[ricktas]

Also what colourspace is set in your camera. If you are using AdobeRGB, and then converting them to sRGB they will look washed out and bland, without a bit of a saturation boost.

[Maezyra]

It appears you have a few issues to attack.
I do not think that shooting “raw”, will of itself be the best solution for you.

You appear to be shooting with Flash in Open Shade, and in most of the shots (I think all) the Flash is just over exposing the SOME of highlights of the animal.
Those highlights which are overexposed are the soft yellow shades that you want to show in their “true” colour – so, in post production you will not really ever get those overexposed areas a soft yellow.

It appears also that the Flash is being used in some Automatic Mode and as such it appears that it is acting as FLASH as FILL – which is typical of most Automatic Flash Modes: and this brings us to the second issue, which is the mixture or BALANCE of the Ambient and the Flash and the resultant problem with setting a White Balance in the CAMERA (or Colour Correction in Post Production).

Typically the areas dominated by Open Shade will appear BLUE when compared to the Flash Fill. Note that BLUE is the OPPOSITE of YELLOW. And note how in some of your shots the rear of the Goanna is becoming BLUEISH

However, IF the Flash has the correct power to expose the Subject; and if the Flash's illumination is about 1stop greater EV, than the Ambient – the Colour Temperature setting for the Camera can be “Flash” and the Subject should appear correct in colour.

(Technically - with respect to the SUBJECT the Flash becomes the KEY LIGHT and not a FILL LIGHT).



This hypothetical example might make this clearer:

You meter AMBIENT light falling on the Goanna and you calculate Exposure is: F/5.6 @ 1/100s @ ISO100
You then set the Flash MANUALLY (i.e. by DISTANCE and POWER) for exposure: F/8 @ ISO100.
And you set the Camera to F8 (@ 1/100s @ ISO100).
And you set the Camera WB to “FLASH” (or 5500°K)

The Goanna will be correctly exposed by the Flash and should exhibit “correct” colour as the Flash will be 1Stop dominate, compared to the Ambient Light falling on the Goanna’s Skin.

Shooting raw will certainly also be an advantage – but correctly exposing for the Flash Illumination and keeping the Flash as the Key Light as described, will make the tweaking of the Colour Balance FOR THE GOANNA a thousand times easier in Post Production.



ANOTHER method of achieving the same outcome is metering the Ambient as described, stoping down about 1 Stop; use the Flash in ETTL Mode and then ride the FLASH EXPOSURE COMPENSATION.

The issue with this method is, you will need to practice how much FEC is to be used for each shot and that will be directly proportional to how much of the Goanna is in the frame – so if you want to try this method then begin by shooting test shots with about the same amount of animal in the frame and in the same area of the frame to get you “staring point – FEC”.


WW

Wow! Being a person who is least confident with flash - This was a very interesting read! Thanks, William!! So Keen4Kritters - I'm just basically going to say "What he said". Keep at it though, my albeit rather limited experience with photography, (and I know this advice will pale in the wake of the wonderful advice that you have already been given) the best thing you can do is experiment and when all else fails - Ask! As you have done. I am not a very technical photographer, so at this point in my exploration of photography, I am doing a lot by feel, experimenting, failing and trying again. I have found this experimentation to be one of my greatest tools in my kit. Practice, enjoy and hone! All the best!!

[William W]

. . . well it is like playing the flute - you've first got to get your scales correct!

[ameerat42]

. . . well it is like playing the flute - you've first got to get your scales correct!

Well, I also read your flash discourse, William W, and tend to agree, though would still suggest to shoot in raw, as can fix lots of things - as u well know, so...

Anyway, so Tyson if you can get the scales right, this monitor might one day become a flautist!!!

For the shots, the first two are good "poses". When you fix up the colour problem post some more of same.
Am.

[William W]

Well, I also read your flash discourse, William W,and tend to agree, though would still suggest to shoot in raw, as can fix lots of things - as u well know, so...



For absolute clarity the words were very carefully chosen:
"I do not think that shooting “raw”, will of itself be the best solution for you."
There was NEVER the suggestion to NOT shoot raw.


***


[The reference to the flute was directed only to Erin.
The pun on the word 'scales' was in respect of the flute and the OP's Reptile.
The meaning of the whole sentence was to both: 'to get it as good as possible in the camera,especially the exposure.']

WW

[ameerat42]

For absolute clarity the words were very carefully chosen:
"I do not think that shooting “raw”, will of itself be the best solution for you."
There was NEVER the suggestion to NOT shoot raw.


***


[The reference to the flute was directed only to Erin.
The pun on the word 'scales' was in respect of the flute and the OP's Reptile.
The meaning of the whole sentence was to both: 'to get it as good as possible in the camera,especially the exposure.']

WW

Quite right, as noted before, and again.

And I appreciated the pun as well.

In fact, I'm still :D-ing at it.

There's nothing like wit, in any form.
Am.

[ving]

well this is a funny old thread! lol


i might sugest that if the colours seen are are not as they are in real life then kyour WB needs to be changed. try a different WB.

[William W]

Quite right, as noted before,and again.



Understood. Thank you for explaining.
The written word is sometimes difficult to dissect the nuance, timbre and tone; until one understands better the author's style.

Aveagreatweggend,

WW

[Maezyra]

. . . well it is like playing the flute - you've first got to get your scales correct!

:lol: Absolutely!!!!! Haha - making myself a bit recognised on here by the looks of it :lol2: It sure is like those scales, but those darned diminished 7ths in broken chord form are not easy to master :lol:



[The reference to the flute was directed only to Erin.
The pun on the word 'scales' was in respect of the flute and the OP's Reptile.
The meaning of the whole sentence was to both: 'to get it as good as possible in the camera,especially the exposure.']


To explain to everyone else - I'm a classically trained flautist who's first love was my flute. I have spent 24 years honing my (music) craft. And yes, it is just like scales... and I'm still plugging away there! Oh dear!! I didn't realise I referenced my music so regularly that this would be picked up by such a well known member! :o

Thanks for the giggle, William!!!