View Full Version : The Indian Myna and my moral dilemma
I live near Maitland in the Hunter Valley
I have noticed over the last two or three years that the most predominant bird species in the area is now the introduced Indian Myna. I have seen them in flocks of thirty or forty.
There is a gang of about a dozen that have taken control of my yard, the only birds they haven't scared off is the yard boss, the Red Wattlebird, a pair of Peewees and a pair of feral Spotted Doves. Even the sparrows have moved on.
They have taken over my birdbath, and when any other species tries to take a bath, they hassle them, the only ones to stand up to them being the Peewees. They even harass my Staffy, although she is one up, because one of them didn't realise she can jump about five feet in the air.
I've planted Callistemons, Grevillias, Acacia, Red flowering Gum and other shrubs to attract birds, and I guess I selfishly don't want my yard to become a haven for a feral minority.
My dilemma? I believe all creatures have a right to exist, and the Myna's didn't ask to be here, however I also believe that introduced predators, and the Myna is a predator, should not be given free rein. The original inhabitants also have a right to a peaceful existence, and since the Myna arrived in the 1960's they have proliferated at a frightening rate.
So, what to do? Sending them all back to India is the most humanitarian solution, but that's not going to happen any time soon. There are some areas participating in a trapping and euthanasia program with some success. Is that cruel?
I personally am so distressed at what I witness in my yard on a daily basis, with these pests attacking every other bird that visits, that today when shopping I purchased some rat poison, poisoned seed, with the idea of putting some out when I know they are coming to visit, and being aware that I will have to watch and make sure no unintended snackers partake.
I don't feel comfortable with this, but I also feel I can't just sit back and do nothing, and let these foreign intruders take over at the expense of our native wild life.
I think poison is less humane than the trapping method for the removal of Indian Mynahs especially if the trapped birds are euthanised by a vet or the like. Providing seed (not recommended) is going to attract many different birds and ensuring only the target species eat the poison is going to be very difficult so you may kill the remaining wanted native birds in error. May I also suggest that you plant some spiky native plants and grasses rather than only nectar providing plants as these will provide habitat and safe havens for other birds who are intimidated by the IMs and will help discourage the IMs as well. Diligent removal of nesting material and eggs from IM Nests will also help but these measures need to be followed by your neighbours too as the IMs and the native Noisy Miners can be invaders of neighbourhoods rather than individual homes. Good luck it is possible to achieve.
Duane Pipe
05-05-2012, 8:00am
Eradicate them by any means necessary Kevin they are a disease spreading pest.
Electrify the bird bath, make sure you are running via a switch and when the bath is full Zap them....:D
Try this link, some good info
http://www.indianmynaaction.org.au/trapping_help.htm
You have my sympathy, Kev. As a lover of birds and bird photography, the Indian Myna is a blight on our native landscape. Trapping and euthanising seems the approved and humane option. Baiting is too dangerous to other species, despite the best care and attention. How frustrating to have gone to such lengths to bring natives into your domain only to have these rats of the air invade it and take over. :(
ameerat42
05-05-2012, 9:25am
Try diplomacy and reason. Show them you mean them no harm. Show them the error of their ways, and then show them the gate.
On the bright side, you have successfully attracted birds to your backyard. That water feature is more efficient than you may have expected.
(We need a myna icon.) Am.
ameerat42
05-05-2012, 9:27am
:pircannon::eagle::lol:
Aren't eagles protected? Now you :lol:, later :(
ricktas
05-05-2012, 10:10am
The other issue here is that this thread, being in Out Of Focus is publicly viewable (ie. non-members can see and read it). I would be careful what you write, cause the RSPCA etc, may take a dim view of using rat poison to kill birds, introduced pest or otherwise.
@ Allie
Thanks for your comments. No current worries about the Noisy Miners as these imports have scared them off too.
@ Dave
I'm sure that would go down well with the RSPCA and the neighbours. :eek:
@ Waz
Thanks mate. They are almost in plague proportions in this area.
@ Am
Thanks for your thoughtful input. Should I electrify the gate?
@ Kym
Maybe overkill with the Cannon. In the good 'ole days, the 12G and bird-shot would have smartly solved the problem.
Cheers
Kevin
Thanks Rick. Point taken.
check with the local council, some have a trap service for Indian Mynas, though once the become established in an area its difficult to get rid of them.
NatalieM
05-05-2012, 11:50am
I look at it this way.
There are legitimate reasons why they need to be culled, it was human fault. There's nothing WRONG with these birds, they are not less worthy than any other bird species, so calling them names as some people do is immature and short sighted.
I think as long as you give respect to them as you would any other species, but realise they do need to be culled and there is no JOY in this (as I've heard people say KILL the bastards!" type rubbish) then you have no real moral dilemma. We screwed with the natural order of things, now we have to fix it.
Just because a species becomes a pest species doesn't mean we have to 'hate them' and act like they are making our lives hell to get back at us. It's ridiculous! Feel sorry for the species, but realise it has to be done, and that's it.
Cane toad vs golf club? Is that not a sport in QLD? :rolleyes:
Culling feral goats, donkeys and camels in the north of South Australia?
As long as its legal (in this case trapping via the council) go for it.
arthurking83
05-05-2012, 1:50pm
Lets just hope that this culling is done long before the problem of them as a pest is not too late, and beyond control.
Rabbits, Cane toads, foxes etc ... the list goes on, and it should be dealt with before any native species are adversely affected.
A bit of info from the Canberra Indian Myna Action Group:
Their trapping and euthanasia program – endorsed by the RSPCA and the ACT
Government – has been highly successful, and has humanely removed over 12,000
Mynas from around Canberra in around 18 months. The program has led to a marked
decline in Indian Myna numbers in backyards and nearby urban nature reserves, and
has had a positive impact on local native biodiversity conservation.
Check your local or state govt regulations and set up a trap.
I used to have a small party of them hanging about in my front yard for a while too a while back.
One day I noticed a fresh hatchling in a nest on my front veranda and tried to use a macro setup to photograph it, but had very limited access to it, so I gave up.
I checked on it the next day too to see where it's at .. and I must have frightened it, and it 'jumped out' and fell to the ground. From there it took off on foot trying to gather some speed to fly off, but it couldn't.
It was too fast for me to do anything about it, so I went about my business leaving it to it's own.
I'm sure it wouldn't have survived the gauntlet of cats in my street .. but I reckon from about this day, they've probably boycotted my front yard.
Many small native looking birds now swarm my totally over grown front yard again tho! :th3:
Kev, if you can somehow manage to upset their belief that they have territorial claim over that particular patch of bush, maybe you can drive them without doing too much work.
That is, if you set up a trap and this subsequently has the effect of them feeling threatened in this particular patch of soil, they may look elsewhere to further their progress.
Duane Pipe
05-05-2012, 5:04pm
I had a Major-Myna problem:D with them Turds nesting in the ceiling of my house And garage Kev. I also had a Mouse problem too.:eek: I kept Chooks and Ferrets so I think their left over food attracted them.
Reading through the local rag one day I spotted an add listing a pair of De-sexed and micro chipped Seal point Siamese cats, free to good home:eek::th3: they were Mother and son. The male was sleek like a Panther, I liked him. Within a week of them settling in they had Killed the Mice and Indian Mynas in the shed:th3: So now all that was left was the house, Where do you think the male went:confused013 Yep through the man hole:D.. In the end I eradicated the pests and satisfied the cats need to hunt.
Reluctantly I had to pass them on:(
@ Arthur
Artie, mate, you are a legend of urban confusion.
Many small native looking birds now swarm my totally over grown front yard again tho!
Arthur, please explain the difference between a native bird, and a 'native looking bird'. Is the 'native looking bird' a species, or a common bird looking for natives, or a bird that looks like a native. Mate, I'm already confussed ( confusion + concussion) so I really need clarification here.
And if it seems like I'm taking 'the p!ss', well I am, but in the nicest way, and I only do it with people I respect.
Cheers
Kevin
Well Dave, the Siamese seem to have solved your problem.
However, I have about 25Kg of super fit Staffy, her name is Roxi, AKA Roxi Schwarzenegger. and I think there would be a serious conflict between the cats and the dog. She has actually plucked a Myna out of the air, it must have not been paying attention.
Cheers
Kevin
Lance B
05-05-2012, 8:43pm
I absolutely hate the blighters, fort the same reason as you have given, Kevin. I would love to see them eradicated so as to let the native irds, and even some of the other less aggressive introduced species, also survive.
Steve Axford
05-05-2012, 8:50pm
Good luck with the Indian Mynahs. I'm very lucky here and have no introduced birds, but I do have cane toads, and Camphor Laurels and Privet and Lantana and ...
@ Lance
Thanks for your sentiments Mate.
@ Steve
Yeah Steve, we all have our local problems.
They are destructive and of no use ,kills the native chicks and birds don't come back.Have no pity or remorse as they have shown themselves to have non either
They are in my cross-hairs
cheers
ameerat42
06-05-2012, 9:02am
...Have no pity or remorse as they have shown themselves to have non either
They are in my cross-hairs
cheers...
Oh, they are so pointedly remorseless, aren't they!!! How dare they be like that.
It would make you cross, and you do need cheering up.
Why can't they see that as an introduced species they have less right to be here and destroy local habitats than the rest of us introduced species have and do.
They will assuredly understand, as they have - and just choose to thwart - the human capacity to feel remorse.
Mark L
06-05-2012, 10:12pm
^That's fair enough and amusing Am.
However, I'd shoot them on sight. (bugga, I don't have a gun. Therefore some one with a gun should shoot them on sight!)
We'd be better off without them. The same as they think they'd be better off without any other birds of any kind near them. They just take active steps to achieve their goal.
Cane toad of the sky.:confused013
ameerat42
07-05-2012, 8:37am
Well it must be brickbats for Kym. Look what he just let l:D:Dse:
{[(":bird:(shoo!):bbird::gbird:(SHOO!):tweety::rbird:(Shoe!):perched:")]}
Ezookiel
07-05-2012, 8:59am
The program they ran in Canberra wouldn't have worked as well if it hadn't been widespread - as each person took up doing it, others in the area also did, and it spread. You won't likely have a long term effect doing just your own yard. It was lots of yards doing it that made the difference.
Definitely use the mouse poison only for what it was intended. Using it for birds or other species, has potential to get you in trouble. I get the sense from what you've written, that you wouldn't do it anyway, and that it was a spur of the moment in desperation. I can definitely understand that level of frustration.
I believe that the Canberra program are happy to help other States as well. Definitely get in touch with them for advice. From the TV article I saw on them, it was one person as frustrated as yourself, that pretty much got started, and it spread from there.
As for the morality of it, unfortunately to be really good stewards of this planet, we have to sometimes undo the damage we have previously done. It's not the IM's fault, and they're only doing what comes naturally to them, but we aren't talking about making them extinct, we are talking about removing them from an area they don't belong for the sake of those that do belong. Maintaining the correct balance might mean making hard decisions. Doing it humanely is the right decision.
This is just my 5cents worth (can't give my 2cents worth. We only have 5cent pieces).
Having given this problem some serious thought over the last few days, I've realised that it is not in my make-up to cause what is probably a slow and painful death to any creature, albeit an acknowledged pest, predator and killer of our native birdlife.
Perhaps, as Ezooliel alluded to, a visit to the local council may be a good starting point.
The proliferation of the Indian Myna is a problem, and a problem that we created by importing them in the first place, so it is up to us to find a humane solution to address the imbalance that we have caused.
Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. I'll post the outcome of my visit to the council.
Cheers
Kevin
with indian/ australian relations at an all time low i would say gentle diplomacy is the key to solving the problem. If you dont speak hindi I have someone on my staff that will translate for you :p
in all seriousness tho trapping is the best way to go. poisoning will get other birds and animals, electrifying the water bath will do the same. a cage trap will work and then release other birds and snap the necks of the minahs. interestingly canberra has completely erradicated the species from within its borders i believe. maybe following what they did (whatever that was)
ameerat42
07-05-2012, 2:51pm
...a visit to the local council may be a good starting point... ...I'll post the outcome of my visit...
Kevin
Very civic, Citizen Kevin.
with indian/ australian relations at an all time low i would say gentle diplomacy is the key to solving the problem. If you dont speak hindi I have someone on my staff that will translate for you :p
in all seriousness tho trapping is the best way to go. poisoning will get other birds and animals, electrifying the water bath will do the same. a cage trap will work and then release other birds and snap the necks of the minahs. interestingly canberra has completely erradicated the species from within its borders i believe. maybe following what they did (whatever that was)
After all that, just re-make a James Bond movie, Live and Let Live.
Think of all the bad Karma from the little mynas. They'll give you a hard time at the pearly gates for sure.
:(m.
Came across this interesting article with a Google search.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/04/08/2044900.htm
If you are fortunate enough to not presently have a Myna problem, be aware that they are coming, soon.
ameerat42
07-05-2012, 4:34pm
Very interesting. That's a clever trap!
Disposing of the dead birds in a domestic situation would pose a problem, though.
Note they were introduced to control insect pests. Sounds familiar.
Am.
Well, I've just had an interesting (not) chat to a staff member at the local council.
It would seem that the council is well aware of the Myna problem,to the extent that they have decided that the problem is out of control, and have therefore put it in the 'too hard basket'. Not a very municipally responsible attitude in my view.
They purchased about a dozen 'Tidemann' traps a few years ago, and will lend them out on request. Disposal of the trapped birds is your responsibility. How you do that is up to you. Carbon dioxide poisoning and neck wringing were mentioned as possibilities.
How bloody ghastly is that? I couldn't wring a birds neck, but I guess that begs the question that I may want to sit back and let others do the unpleasant, but necessary, dirty work.
I know that allowing the uncontrolled spread of these birds is as wrong as using inhumane methods to remove them.
So, what to do, and why am I getting the distinct feeling that I maybe about to grasp a tiger by the tail?
Cheers
Kevin
Very interesting. That's a clever trap!
Disposing of the dead birds in a domestic situation would pose a problem, though.
Note they were introduced to control insect pests. Sounds familiar.
Am.
Yes Am, I've seen them referred to as flying cane toads.
..... Disposal of the trapped birds is your responsibility. How you do that is up to you. Carbon dioxide poisoning and neck wringing were mentioned as possibilities.
How bloody ghastly is that? I couldn't wring a birds neck, but I guess that begs the question that I may want to sit back and let others do the unpleasant, but necessary, dirty work.......
The council's response does sound a bit pathetic. I am aware that vets are required to euthanise feral animals - one of the downsides of working in that field. I suppose it is worse to do the same for healthy but otherwise unwanted pet animals and that also happens too frequently.
I do sympathise with the bird in that (as others have said) they did not ask to come here and it is only their innate instincts which makes them so undesirable but sympathy does not mean I want them around either. Unfortunately, to help eradicate pests someone has to do the "dirty work" and if your part is to trap the birds for others to euthanise then at least you are doing something which is obviously more than some others including your council are prepared to do.:(
Duane Pipe
07-05-2012, 8:02pm
Give back to our youth what we had. The right to own a Slug Gun ;)
Kevin, there are probably a lot of people in your area thinking what you are. Maybe write a letter to the editor of some local newspapers. "Does anyone else think these birds are getting out of hand, council's useless, what can we do?" type of thing.
Hopefully it sparks someone else to grab the tiger by the tail. You can then support them etc
Wonder if Mr Tinkler reads the local paper. :)
Imagine living in a society where a governing group of individuals does not permit YOU do have food, water nor peace nor shelter.
These are essential human rights.
The governing group is declining your basic human rights.
In order for one group to survive, a decision needs to be made.
There are two buttons on a table.
BUTTON A: the governing body is terminated.
BUTTON B: If you press the other, you are terminated.
Will you choose?
HINT: Your moral obligation as a human is to act in defense of those in need.
ameerat42
08-05-2012, 9:17am
There are two buttons on a table.
BUTTON A: the governing body is terminated.
BUTTON B: If you press the other, you are terminated.
I tried both options - as a mental exercise - and nothing happened, though I did get confused.
What should I do?
Could it be that AP is running a bit slow (on my computer at least) this morning.
?Am.
arthurking83
08-05-2012, 2:00pm
.....
What should I do?
....
Am!!
You obviously can't see the 3rd option(as you don't have admin privileges!! :D)
BUTTON C: Terminate Am!!
:p
Garry Cunich
National Co-ordinator
Indian Myna Eradication Program
Phone: (02) 45766353
Mobile: 0438198460
ameerat42
09-05-2012, 9:36am
^ :lol:
Please don't.
Too la....
Too la....
Another myna problem!
Garry Cunich
National Co-ordinator
Indian Myna Eradication Program
Phone: (02) 45766353
Mobile: 0438198460
http://www.indianmynaeradication.com/why.html
An update.
I mowed my lawn today, finished about 4pm, and went inside for a drink.
When I went back outside about ten minutes later, I thought I'd walked into the set for a remake of Alfred Hitchcock's 'The Birds'.
There was somewhere between forty and fifty Mynas in my yard. It was creepy. It's almost as if they have decided that I'm a softie.
The only bright spot was a lone, very brave Peewee, resisting all attempts to drive it off. It was repelling attack after attack. What a feisty little bird. I've seen them chase off crows, hawks and even a wedgie that ventured near it's nest site.
I think it's time I stopped procrastinating and did something positive to reclaim my yard.
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