2012 National Portrait Prize Winner

[Bear Dale]

What's your opinion on the winning photo?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-19/actors-image-takes-out-national-portrait-photography-prize/3899438

[orientalfox]

Great Image, i had a quick look at it's competition and there is some very nice work in the collection.

[Xebadir]

Pretty flat and average image IMHO - seems like the marketability of an image and the background story on something that can be socially opinionated has dominated the competition rather than the image being a particularly good portrait - The portrait really should not require an accompanying storm but convery something in what it shows.

[CapnBloodbeard]

Absolute crap. The only thing I can think is that there must be something in print that didn't translate to screen.

The image (scroll down for the uncropped image) is as boring as they come. I have some knowledge of the struggles of Jackie Charles, and nothing in his face conveys any of that.

I can't see anything good at all in this image - especially compared to other images there which manage to tell a story while demonstrating just a touch of creativity and technical skill, which this image achieves none of.

[Bear Dale]

It just doesn't do a single thing for me. I don't feel the slightest spark of anything looking at it.

[geoffsta]

The poor bloke looks like a stunned mullet. And excuse the reference, but I have seen better mug shots. As said above, there is no feeling, or story in this image.
But judges are judges, and no-one knows what goes through their minds. :umm:

[ricstew]

I think he is a very white black man in that image.........was this deliberate?
cheers
Jan

[Danielle10]

Ooh, ummm... I do not like it, agree that it is flat and well boring.
It doesn't really show any emotion it just looks like a mug shot

[Xenedis]

I'm afraid it does nothing for me either.

[danny]

Was looking at the finalists a day before the announcement of the winner. Must say that when is was announced I was surprised that this was the winner. But I still wish I had taken a photo that good.

think this one was the best...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-19/frog-hunter2c-damien-wurrkidj-2011-by-matthew-abbottjpg/3898566

[Louise]

Totally agree with all of the above and 100% with Danny I think that was a winner!!!!

[Bennymiata]

I reckon the guy needs a good haircut and a beard trim, myself.

I agree with the above sentiments, and that portrait of the frog hunter is a great shot, far better than the winner IMHO.

[Jeanette]

IMHO it does not strick me as much as other photos, especially comparing to many i have seen on here.
sense political edge rather than THE PHOTO...
i agree flat, slightly over exposed areas and flash shows on the forehead rather than subtle light.
and very posed.. which works for many shots but for this guy who DOES have an interesting face and character, to get him not front on posed bt rather a capture might have stirred some story and emotion which it lacks big time to me

[Steve Axford]

Reading all this criticism I am just left with the impression that we all think we could do better. Perhaps it is best to just appreciate the top entries and leave it at that. $25,000 is a good prize, but it fades when compared to what the winner of the Aus Open tennis tournament gets. We pay our sportsmen much, much more - and then we (experts?) criticize the decision for a photo. I suspect we are just shooting ourselves in the foot.

[FallingHorse]

I didn't think much of the winning entry either. Agreed with the flat lighting etc. I found the one titled "Transition: Nikki & Nick" by Emma Phillips appealed to me.

[Xenedis]

Reading all this criticism I am just left with the impression that we all think we could do better.

That's not the impression I get.

One doesn't have to be particularly good at something to know when another example of it isn't good, or isn't appealing.

[CapnBloodbeard]

Reading all this criticism I am just left with the impression that we all think we could do better.

We all could though...Heck, I'm woeful at portraiture and I know I cold produce a more interesting image than this with my eyes closed.

I've seen more interesting passport photos - and that's basically all this is. Sure, it's a bit far away and the wrong background, but that's basically all this is.

I'm reminded of the shot on the cover of Times for Mark Zuckerman, man of the year. It basically WAS a passport photo. I basically thought the same about that.

But because it's in a prominent location, it plays on people's minds and they start to find meaning and interpretation where there really isn't any.

[Xenedis]

It's also to be remembered that art is very subjective.

What one person considers to be rubbish, someone else could consider to be a masterpiece.

[I @ M]

One doesn't have to be particularly good at something to know when another example of it isn't good, or isn't appealing.

Amen to that, doesn't only apply to photography in particular or art in general. We see examples of mass appeal everyday ranging from the latest tech gadget to a kitchen utensil.



It's also to be remembered that art is very subjective.

What one person considers to be rubbish, someone else could consider to be a masterpiece.

Particularly when competitions are held that seem to reward artists who have captured someone with "celebrity status", maybe it is time to overhaul the judge selection criteria ------

Or would that go against the grain of sponsors and bum kissers? :rolleyes:

[Steve Axford]

It would seem that I am a lone voice. I don't think it's a bad photo at all. It may even be an excellent photo, though it is hard to tell with a small jpeg. At least I find it hard to tell. Apart from that, I do think his face shows a lot of character and it is relaxed. Does he really have celebrity status? I've never heard of him, but he is of the stolen generation, so I guess that makes him a celebrity. Small reward!!!

[Mark L]

I didn't think much of the winning entry either. ....
And I actually don't think much of the other images either. :confused013
Maybe this defined best, what a portrait is, to the judges.

[gerry]

It would seem that I am a lone voice. I don't think it's a bad photo at all. It may even be an excellent photo, though it is hard to tell with a small jpeg. At least I find it hard to tell. Apart from that, I do think his face shows a lot of character and it is relaxed. Does he really have celebrity status? I've never heard of him, but he is of the stolen generation, so I guess that makes him a celebrity. Small reward!!!

Steve, your not a lone voice - its just hard to get involved in these kinds of threads when things are very subjective and also when the average punter believes he or she could do better.

I personally would hold judgement on any of these until i had seen them as they are meant to be, printed and hung on a wall and remembering that art is past the bounds of a what people perceive to be a technically good photo.

[Bear Dale]

There's nothing wrong with passing judgement on the photo, the photo was entered to be judged.

[Mark L]

There's nothing wrong with passing judgement on the photo, the photo was entered to be judged.

And the judges judged.
Now it's our opinion.

[Bear Dale]

And the judges judged.
Now it's our opinion.

Our judgemental opinion.......on a photography forum. Pretty hard to have a beef with that.

[CapnBloodbeard]

The face may have a lot of character, but the image does absolutely nothing to accentuate or highlight this. The fact that his face has character is a virtue of the subject, not the photographer.

I went to a performance of his, sort of autobiographical theatre. Very candid about his life. Struggles with being one of the stolen generation, a former drug addict - seen a lot of pain in his life but I found him to be a fascinating, even inspiring individual with a complex and at times tragic life story.

The ONLY thing this image shows, at this level, is that he perhaps has a slight sense of humour because I think he's smirking a little. Aside from that, the image shows none of his character or his journey.

[Steve Axford]

Steve, your not a lone voice - its just hard to get involved in these kinds of threads when things are very subjective and also when the average punter believes he or she could do better.

I personally would hold judgement on any of these until i had seen them as they are meant to be, printed and hung on a wall and remembering that art is past the bounds of a what people perceive to be a technically good photo.
Thanks Gerry. I could't see that it was undeserving and couldn't see why so much scorn was heaped.

[Xebadir]

I honestly think it was undeserving. When I look at these things I think about the comparison to my mum with a point and shoot - is there something which distinguishes this photo from every other photo on facebook, in someones holiday snaps or just your everyday photograph. When you read the backgrounds of some of the judges in these competitions though I think its pretty clear why you get the winners you do - heres a hint, they generally aren't the best photographers. its not that I think that I can do better, but more is there something that makes this image even remotely appealing to a wider audience.

[Bear Dale]

I honestly think it was undeserving. When I look at these things I think about the comparison to my mum with a point and shoot - is there something which distinguishes this photo from every other photo on facebook, in someones holiday snaps or just your everyday photograph. When you read the backgrounds of some of the judges in these competitions though I think its pretty clear why you get the winners you do - heres a hint, they generally aren't the best photographers. its not that I think that I can do better, but more is there something that makes this image even remotely appealing to a wider audience.

Thats what I think the majority of people who are in the negative camp think - whats the difference between this and any other snapshot that we see daily? One would expect that a photo winning a prestigious award, have something that gives it something amazing that the vast majority "gets".

[Steve Axford]

I have to disagree. I think it is well thought out and clearly not a snap. The background compliments his clothes and the white provides a nice touch. But I guess that is just my opinion. I actually like the dock worker portrait the best but maybe that's my preference for street photography. Still. The winner is a good photo in my eyes

[I @ M]

Does he really have celebrity status? I've never heard of him, but he is of the stolen generation, so I guess that makes him a celebrity.

I had no idea about the status of the gentleman who is in the winning photograph until today because I simply didn't read the story on the linked page and simply let the images speak for themselves. My comment was directed towards ever so many competitions that encompass portraiture. So many times the winning entry is of someone well known, or to use my words, holds celebrity status. No, I am not one in the "negative camp" who thinks that they could have done better, if I thought that I would have entered the competition and found my own "celebrity" to photograph.
I do however think that I have seen better portrait images amongst the entries that were on show for this prize before judging began.




I went to a performance of his, sort of autobiographical theatre. Very candid about his life. Struggles with being one of the stolen generation, a former drug addict - seen a lot of pain in his life but I found him to be a fascinating, even inspiring individual with a complex and at times tragic life story.

The ONLY thing this image shows, at this level, is that he perhaps has a slight sense of humour because I think he's smirking a little. Aside from that, the image shows none of his character or his journey.

Thanks Capn, it seems from your description that he is somewhat well known and from my point of view without knowing anything of his life I too see nothing in the portrait that tells his "story". Isn't that what a portrait or an image is supposed to do, to tell us something from an image without the viewer necessarily knowing anything about the subject?

[CapnBloodbeard]

I have to disagree. I think it is well thought out and clearly not a snap


Aside from the clothes having a little bit of nice contrast, what strikes you as being well thought out? To me it looks like a lighting test shot ...'just stand there and I'll take a shot just to check the exposure, then we'll get on with the project'

[Steve Axford]

I think his face shows a lot of character as it is taken. To be able to guess at someones life by just looking at the face with no story is almost impossible - at least, most who claim they can do it have been shown to be charlatans. We often rely on some words to explain a picture and together they can make something much greater than the parts. As in this case.
Some faces will strike a chord with some viewers and some will not, we have to accept that, but I would love to take lighting test shots like that one. Perhaps it was, and the photographer was clever enough to grab it from the discards and submit it. I guess it's very hard to objectively say why a photo is good or not, but I am surprised by the strong dislike so many here have shown for this photo. I think someone said it was overexposed, but I am unsure if you cam really tell from a small reproduction, and anyway - does that matter as long as it works.
To Xenadir - do you really think this is similar to most facebook photos? I seen lots of really bad ones. This is clearly a formal portrait and perhaps the judges decided that "we want a formal portrait this year", but at least it is a good one.

[geoffsta]

Steve... The photo is plain & ordinary, and pretty well boring.
It's not until you read the story behing the photo, when the image gains a bit of feeling.
But if you were in a cafe with plenty of images on a wall, you wouldn't give this image a second look. Unless you thought it may have been the owner.

[Steve Axford]

Maybe I can see more in it than you can. And perhaps it is even better at a larger size? Have you not seen photos that really come to life when you can see the detail? Have you seen the full, large portrait? I haven't.

[gerry]

There's nothing wrong with passing judgement on the photo, the photo was entered to be judged.

is that directed at my comment? if so i disagree, judgement (at least full judgement) should be with held until it is viewed as intended - is the image intended by viewed at 700px wide?


Steve... The photo is plain & ordinary, and pretty well boring.
It's not until you read the story behing the photo, when the image gains a bit of feeling.
But if you were in a cafe with plenty of images on a wall, you wouldn't give this image a second look. Unless you thought it may have been the owner.

I think you should rephrase your response to include more 'I think 's ;) Art is subjective, rest assured there are plenty of people who think this image is deserving and art.


The face may have a lot of character, but the image does absolutely nothing to accentuate or highlight this.

Bear in mind here that I actually am not overly fussed with the image, however to state that the image does nothing to accentuate the facial character is a bit of a long stretch imo. How about white sweater matching the grey/white hair, the striped shirt colours, the BG and its texture and colour all could be argued to compliment the portrait.


When you read the backgrounds of some of the judges in these competitions though I think its pretty clear why you get the winners you do - heres a hint, they generally aren't the best photographers.

why should it matter whether they are photographers or not? let alone good or bad ones?

[geoffsta]

This thread is the main reason I don't enter other competitions other than the one on this site.
The image I enter on here is judged by my peers, not just one judge. And the result is the mixed emotions and observations of all members from begginers to advanced.
That is what makes this site unique, and a good judge of how my photography is progressing.

[Bear Dale]

judgement (at least full judgement) should be with held until it is viewed as intended - is the image intended by viewed at 700px wide?





I'm judging it from what "I" can see of it and what I can see....I don't like.

[Xenedis]

I don't see much point getting worked up over the image in question.

It's art and it's subjective. Therefore there is no right or wrong answer.

I personally don't like the portrait. The composition is bothersome, the light is flat, the background does nothing for the subject, and the pose and expression doesn't tell a story.

But if someone else here loves it, then that's fine too.

[Steve Axford]

This thread is the main reason I don't enter other competitions other than the one on this site.
The image I enter on here is judged by my peers, not just one judge. And the result is the mixed emotions and observations of all members from begginers to advanced.
That is what makes this site unique, and a good judge of how my photography is progressing.

It's probably lucky that we refrain from passing judgement on the winners here in the same way that we pass judgement on the National Portrait Prize. It could (and probably has) created some fights. There is a general consensus here as to what a good photo is, but it isn't necessarily right. We are slaves to fashion, just as others in our society (all societies) are, and it is good that different comps have different rules. While it is probably sensible to stick to one site to start with, it is easy to end up with limitations which have to be unlearned in the end. That's the normal process for most people, so no big deal. It is, however, worth remembering that there are many different views and the more we accept them the greater our options become.

[geoffsta]

There is a general consensus here as to what a good photo is, but it isn't necessarily right.
There is never a "Right" or "Wrong". It's all in the eye of the beholder. There are some images on here, that drive me Nuts, but get really good critique. Which doesn't worry me because, they are my thoughts, and my opinion only.
It's like going to the local market. looks like crap to me, but people still buy the stuff. What is one mans trash, is another mans treasure.

[kiwi]

The winner has $25000. None of us do.

Not my favourite image if the set, which in general left me cold but I'm nowhere near as qualified to judge as the judges that did

As with art I think its not ALL about the picture sometimes

[Bear Dale]

As with art I think its not ALL about the picture sometimes



I agree......it's about the photography ;)